Cyberpunk 2077

...Pondsmith, I really like your work, but come on. "I have Trans friends" and "I, personally, have never seen any Transphobia"? Is this really the argument you want to go with?

Like, I agree that the art can be interpreted in different ways, but a lot of people were already on edge, and a defense of the company from that is going to have to be a bit more substantive.

Edit: Pagetopper. 5/10

Edited by AzurePaladin on Jun 25th 2019 at 11:58:25 AM

While that's how it sounds, I think it moves out of the "I'm not racist because" zone because Mike isn't their friend (though these aren't fictional people like usually in those situations) but their employer. Employing transgender individuals in the games industry is a "put your money where you mouth is" thing versus a platitude.

Because it involves money and hiring practices.

I wonder if it would also help or hurt his situation that the ones not at Talsorian Games he's friends with and has been known to work for/visit with for years as a known friendship is the Wachowski Sisters. They became buddies after he was recruited to work on the Matrix Online.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 25th 2019 at 6:33:05 AM

I should preface this with that I am NOT saying that Mike Pondsmith is Transphobic.

What I will say, however, is that it doesn't matter if the Transgender individuals he's referencing are employed or friends or what have you, because its not the point. The point is that he's stating that he hasn't seen where the Transphobia discussion is coming from, and dismissing it that way.

The reason CD Projekt RED is being accused of Transphobia is because of multiple instances where their social media and marketing used Transphobic phrases or imagery, and that Pondsmith didn't see it there doesn't mean it wasn't received as such.

I don't know, the "I didn't see it, so I don't know what's the problem" answer kinda irks me. Its not like Trans people are a monolith, I know some people were fine with it, so its not like it was even universal condemnation. Its just...the people who were upset had valid reasons to be, this almost felt dismissive of that.

I can see where he's coming from, but at the same time "I don't see the problem with it" is exactly the kind of argument that the "check your privilege" phrase was invented to deal with.

Ah, the good ol' "I'm not saying, BUT..."

Be glad that I am not saying a lot of things right now.

Remind me to double-check the classes. Because I know Solo is probably my preferred launch class at this point.

I'm thinking you've misread, because I don't contradict that first statement.

I'm serious, I'm saying he is not the best judge here, not that he is actively being insulting.

Classes are:

Rockerboy

Solo

Netrunner

Techie

Medtechie

Media

Cop

Corporate

Fixer

Nomad

I think he isn't being Transphobic because he had the context of what the image is portraying and he thinks he is aware of the issues because he has people on hand who can input on it from personal experience.

I can see why people are Leery - CDPR (or their twitter monitor) had form in being tone deaf, or at least appropriating a slogan they shouldn't have. But they aren't on the same level as, say, the makers of Kingdom Come.

Anyway, I am cautious of any media, especially dystopic media, avoiding topics. If you're telling a story of corporate oppression you need both overt narrative and more subtle implications of the co-opting of things. I do see that the lack of nuance present in the vast majority of the audience might be a problem as people do take things at face value.

Also, I heard that we won't get multiple apartments any more, which with the talk of streamlining does have me, I suppose, a little curious. Not concerned, but worried about a narrowing to a more linear game.

To be frank, if we want Mike's unflitered and honest opinion, we'll probably have to wait until after the game, and thus his consultant contract (after all the developers don't have to do all what they say), is done.

Edited by UltraWanker on Jun 26th 2019 at 12:14:49 PM

What happened with the devs of Kingdom Come?

Kingdom Come was made by a bunch of gamergate-courting dorks that spoke against "SJW" folks of course. There's a perk in the game that makes you more attractive to women if you dont clean yourself, to understand the kind of mindset those people have.

I've mentioned before that I definitely think CDPR is at least trying to do good. But they're human and say dumb shit sometimes.

I can't wait for this. I hope there are cyber options of mirrored eyes and cyberclaws, because I can make Violent Veronica, a character I have in my head who's kind of like Molly Millions but 100% more gothy. But yeah, this I'm stoked for. Gonna preorder it soon, myself.

As long as there's shitton of possibilities with drones I'm content. I really want an unusual but creative playthrough where I get around completing the game 9/10 with drones, since you yourself gotta talk to important peeps...

Drone army seems unlikely but having a drone to control alongside AI controlled drones assisting you? Yeah I want me some of that.

Second playthrough is gonna be me channeling the Doom Slayer as much as possible :P gonna carry me around a minigun~ I like shooting stuff

Wrong. Kotaku actually dared to speak to Daniel Vavra, the CEO and lead designer, and it turned out that basically, it was him who was attacked by uneducated crusading Everything Is Racist types. Only because the crusading types tried three times to "complain" (read: attack), and every time they addressed their complaints to the same guy who told them to get fucked again and again like it was a bad sketch, the GG chuds found the entire situation amusing and Vavra became something of an idol to them. Not the other way around.

I mean, seriously: it went like "You're racist!" - "Get fucked." - "We want to speak to the manager!" - "I'm the manager, get fucked." - "We want to speak to the owner!" - "I'm the owner, get fucked."

Not to mention that the same crusading types attacked The Witcher 3 for being supposedly racist... To be drowned out by people plugging their fingers in their ears and loudly shouting "GAME OF THE YEAR! GAME OF THE YEAR!", including, surprisingly, Kotaku.

If you want to hate a developer who has anything to deal with misogynists, neo-Nazis, islamophobes, etcetera, there's Destructive Creations, the chuds behind Hatred. Someone looked at their personal social media profiles and it turned out that a lot of them reposted fake news from far-right kook sites daily. Not that it wasn't obvious, really.

Edited by NotSoBadassLongcoat on Jun 27th 2019 at 2:07:11 PM

Vavra's worldview is informed by growing up in a former Communist country. He's basically like Ayn Rand or Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Umm... You do realize that the CD Projekt folks come from a former communist country too? It's called "cultural differences". And it is something completely unrelated to race and skin color.

Edited by NotSoBadassLongcoat on Jun 28th 2019 at 6:35:31 PM

A fair critique - the Hatred lot were "edgelords" anyway. However, there is some merit to the pushback against the idea that "Black people didn't exist in Medieval Europe", and by extension "They don't / shouldn't be in a game ostensibly modelled on said Medieval Europe". However, Eurogamer seemed to do a minor version of what RPS just pulled over CDPR. However, Vavra did court the GG crowd at the start and then disowned them - playing to the gallery a bit with his Twitter. Also, his claim of "There were no black people in Bohemia, period."

Now, the history may be that it's less diverse in Central / Eastern Europe, but there's a fair whack of evidence of POC thriving and contributing greatly to European nations; or just trading and existing in them. Now, granted, that may be due to Sapkowski's source material not fleshing much out (But we know Zerrikania exists for example...)

Anyway, veering off topic, apologies.

There's an article on PCG about how we're not just limited to Night City - the badlands exist and we will be meeting Nomads (Plus one of the origins is "Nomad" so that means some minor Mad Max potential right there...)

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/cyberpunk-2077-wont-just-be-set-inside-night-city/

inb4 'WHAT A LOVELY DAY' and 'RIDE ETERNAL SHINY AND CHROME' memes.

I fail to see what Arnold has to do with the conversation since he's Austrian by birth and Austria was officially neutral between NATO and the Warsaw Pact during the Cold War.

He grew up in a part of Austria occupied by the Soviets.

CDPR have confirmed a few more things:

- 3 Starting "origins" (Corporate, Nomad, Street Kid) which will impact story elements. - Each of those 3 means a different starting location in Night City

https://www.pcgamer.com/cyberpunk-2077-lets-you-choose-from-three-possible-origin-stories-and-starting-locations/

Childhood heroes are still gone though, as Johnny Silverhand seems to be the main, although you don't have to side with him, apparently.

Another Cyberpunk project could be in the works too, with comments on several teams at CDPR - one on CB 2077, one on Gwent and another working on an undisclosed project. There's also talk of CB 2077 Multiplayer. (Heck, if they can lift Night City and make a GTA online but with TRAUMA TEAM insta buy...) This will not be at launch, more a separate game (GTA Online esque, again>)

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/07/02/cyberpunk-2077-multiplayer/

This could be tied into that translation issue (Mentioned below) but the MP side seems to be something they're doing, probably to ensure the time they spent building those assets has a long tail in addition the SP game.

There were rumours of another project (Reported on a Polish newsite, but that seems to have been a translation error that the gaming press ran with:

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/cd-projekt-says-its-not-actually-working-on-multiple-cyberpunk-games/

An Cyberpunk online game sounds like a fun idea but I know the community of that kind of thing is going to get pretty bad really fast.

Why I love single-player alone.

Copying GTA online's business model seems like a sound business move honestly. Rockstar has made so much money off of it and part of that is because everyone else has been chasing other trends like Battle Royale.

And if it's got a more interesting twist on the heist mechanic (Which is mainly vehicle orientated) then we may have our long-awaited Deus Ex multiplayer game.

I'm keeping calmish, but I'd love to do a co-op Shadowrun esque infiltration of a building, silent takedowns, hacking a node, then maybe stealing a van and blitzing across the city to escape.

It's a dream. I just hope they don't go with "deathmatch" but with powers...