The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

I was going to say that!

Anyway, I don't mean to question your judgement on this one, Arha, but this is going to be a significant precedent. I think this might be the first work that's being cleared on the basis of a censored fan-translated, unofficial patch (as opposed to official releases), even if it is the most likely English version that the majority of players will end up using. If it gets a pass, we're saying that fandom releases and official releases are equally legitimate, depending on popularity / accessibility.

edited 6th Jul '12 9:37:06 PM by Pyrite

I'd here to say that I'd like to become a member of the P5

As mentioned last time, you'll have to take it up with the mods. It's their call to determine if you're the kind of person they want on the panel.

Pm an admin and explain why you would be adequate at the job. Till then, stay a while and try to be constructive. Edit: Got Ninja'd.

edited 6th Jul '12 11:30:24 PM by Roraborialis

@Pyrite: Well, if it's a fairly popular version within the work's fandom, it makes sense.

There Is No Such Thing As Notability.

A fan patch is as valid a work as any official version, and especially so if there is no official English version.

Well in this case Staircase Subs appear to be the only people who translated it, and thus that patch is the only way to experience Hoshizora no Memoria.

Plus the fact that the scene has little context surrounding it and removing it doesn't affect the rest of the work.

I know it's the only English version at this point. Just wanted to make sure the ramifications were clear before we proceeded.

I feel there's little harm done if the only potentially harmful scene is cut from the English version.

I think we should make a note on that one that we're allowing the censored version only.

Aren't we doing that routinely for works that have wiki-safe and non-wiki-safe forms in the same medium?

Well, nothing in the work's page mentions sexual content with that character, so I'm not sure what exactly we should change. Anyone who is reading this wiki is going to be playing the game in English, which means they'll get the patched version.

We'd have to mention the restriction as a matter of standard policy though.

Theoretically, someone could create a new English patch (No one will of course) and then effectively there would be two English versions (or they could just be bilingual and play the Japanese version), either way a contributor could end up playing the version we don't want elaborated on in the wiki.

So I guess this is like restricting to a clean version which happens to be a fan version.

edited 7th Jul '12 3:51:28 AM by UltimatelySubjective

It is an interesting question, though - if we don't judge a work by NSFW fan-adaptations, should we judge it by SFW ones?

Yes. I'd say we need to judge it by the safest adaptation out there, fan or no, that would still belong in the same continuity for the purpose of the wiki rules.

Also, it's not NSFW that matters, but Wiki-Safe (or Not-Wiki-Safe).

I think yes.
NSFW adaptations are off the wiki because they are NSFW, no matter from what they are derived and how close they are to the source. It can be a fanfic with only slight connection or a game mod that ads nudity and porn - they go unmentioned.

But why shouldn't we have a page on SFW fanfic on something cut if somebody wants to make it? And if the game most people will be interacting with is censored does it matter if it's a fan patch or official?
Those are No Such Thing As Notability and Bleached Underpants respectively.

Of course cases may arise when the process isn't as clean cut, which is why we have a panel instead of strict checklist.

The difference being that NSFW fan materials are extras which can be excluded from the page by default as they're not official.

SFW fan versions probably involve censoring the official version on the other hand and it would be easier for people to get confused.

Except in cases where the censored version would be much more prevalent. In this case the prevalent version happens to be unofficial, however it's assured to be the only version the audience will see in a way most other media, especially works officially censored and re-released, can't guarantee.

At least that is how I would differentiate in this case.

edited 7th Jul '12 4:12:39 AM by UltimatelySubjective

Back from hiatus due to sudden Real Life issues. Long story.

Don't mind me, just announcing my return to active contribution of whatever I can do to help in this thread. Carry on.

Good to have you back, Marq. :3

Willbyr: You forgot the infanticide and thrill killing. They're too busy killing their kids to have sex with them.

Pyrite: As far as I'm concerned the fan translation is basically a separate release. Besides, it's the same as the thing in the VN question whatever that asks if H Scenes can be disabled via an option from the menu.

Oh, and Hoshizora no Memoria is already on my watchlist. So far as I can recall it was put together with no mention of sex scenes because I honestly know very few if any of the sex tropes this site has and have little interest in sex in the first place. Thus, while I will go scan it again in a moment to make absolutely sure, I believe it is already in a wiki safe version.

Edit: Scanned. Moved one iffy subpoint for safety's sake and did some normal editing stuff.

edited 7th Jul '12 8:43:26 AM by Arha

BTW, I don't know if Discar mentioned this yet (I had PM'd him about it previously), but we should take some time to broaden My Girl Is a Slut's description to include non-porn works. The examples already contain considerable non-porn entries, thankfully.

Shouldn't you take that to the TRS?

I agree, while a good idea, that's more of a TRS issue than a P5 issue.

edited 7th Jul '12 9:13:53 AM by Meeble

It's not a hard fix. I'll take care of it.

edited 7th Jul '12 9:21:03 AM by shimaspawn

@Arha and Meeble: I figured since it had more to do with the "de-pornification" aspect of the revised Content Policy than standard TRS procedure, it would be better to bring it up here first.

@Shima: Thanks.