The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)

While I defend Lolita since I am a passionate fan of western literature, other people are also passionate fans of video games, so of course, people would defend them if they feel they are being unfairly cut.

I'm squicked as well, but our question is: is one disgusting frame enough to make the entire game pedo pandering? BTW: the visual language of US porn is pretty gross,eh?

edited 24th Jun '12 9:40:23 AM by animeg3282

Honestly, I think the utterly horrifying, disgusting nature of the one picture we found kind of damned a rational argument on the series at the time. And as I said before, there's a huge difference between outlining the horrors of molestation and rape without visual explicitness, and just verbal explicitness (i.e., Lolita, Mysterious Skin, The Kite Runner), and that image. There are ways you can visually show rape that aren't anywhere close to the level of awful in that image, and the only reason I can think to dump semen on a young girl in an eroge is to have it be overtly sexual.

I know these things happen in real life, but there seems to be a marked difference, in media, with rape portrayals. You usually fall into three categories: rape being mistaken for 'kidnap romance', rape as awful and horrible and depicted as a violent affair, and rape played for titillation. Of all the things I've seen in the course of therapy, rehabilitation, and activism work, the only category I've seen of media where rape turns into an endless humiliation parade, complete with a similar kind of debasing of the woman involved, is actual hardcore pornography.

I haven't played Rance. I only want to comment on why the image strikes a nerve with a lot of people - because it's depraved in a way that most of the other works involving rape haven't been. It's not Lolita-level flowery-prose unreliable-narrator psychological horror. Hell, it's not even American Psycho-level, in-your-face, gorn level.

According to the trope page, Mysterious Skin actually had on screen sexual abuse of a child, with them managing to photoshop together a scene of one of the protagonists giving the coach a hand job.

So, yeah. <__<

@Largo Quagmire: "It's not Lolita-level flowery-prose unreliable-narrator psychological horror. Hell, it's not even American Psycho-level, in-your-face, gorn level."

I'm not really familiar with either of those. But I wonder if to me, it doesn't feel like it's a similar type of thing? Because that image doesn't feel to me like it's trying to say "This is sexy and you should feel sexy looking at it." It's telling me "Something really WRONG is going on here," in a way that doesn't even take into account the age of the character. (Since when I first saw that image, no one had posted talking about the age.) It certainly has a feeling of disturbing that's distinct from other sex scenes in the game. (Where I'm mostly finding myself nauseated by Rance's mouth. What is with that? o.O )

I've never posted on the forums before, but I just want to say this.

I find it extremely, extremely unlikely that the scene in Rance was played for titillation. Or that it was saying the rape of a child was a-okay.

If it was doing either of the two, I really doubt Rance would have killed the boys doing the act, and I also really doubt Kouhime (the character in question) would have developed a phobia of boys her age.

Lastly, I think context DOES matter. There's a huge difference between just seeing that picture in a cg set and actually seeing that picture in-game.

Okay, since we apparently can't shut up about Rance, allow me to drop some knowledge on y'all, because I don't think I've expressed my thought process on how I went with my decision enough.

You guys are familiar with the idiom, "the straw that broke the camel's back?" Now, imagine Komodin's overall temperament as an average cartoon camel, who may or may not still be a Sonic fan. Next, imagine all of the questionable content in every Rance game as various bags piled on top of that camel; the rapes committed by the main character; the fact that there's little, if any, comeuppance for them; that stupid, shit-eating grin that man always seems to constantly sport; stuff like that there. At this point, you should be seeing the camel strugging to keep himself upright from all the strain. Finally, imagine that particular bukkake scene as that last, little bit of straw lowered on top of that pile of bags the poor Camel!Komodin is hoisting. That itsy-bitsy, teeny-weensy straw is just enough to push the haul way past the camel's capacity and, ergo, that Kamel!Komo finally collapses from all that strain. His last words were, "My BACK! MY BA-!" as the load snapped his spine and his life, in the process, was cut short.

Or, if you wish to not read Komodin's silly analogies, here's the bottom line: that game is filled to the brim with enough questionable content already. That scene was what pushed past to the point of what I consider "acceptable." At this point, I honestly couldn't give a shit about whatever context that scene has; to those not in the know, it's a prepubescent girl getting raped and ejaculated upon by a group of young men. I'm not gonna change my devilhead vote because of that, and all attempts to convince me otherwise will wind up doing is piss me off. Now, until we get Catalogue's words on this^note Speaking of, where is that guy, anyway?, can we please move on to something else already?

To change the topic: Can we have a policy that any flag where the flagger doesn't explain the reason for flagging in a forum post or the discussion page of the flagged page gets immediately zapped off the tool, no questions asked?

The tool needs to be modified to require a "Reason for flagging" before even submitting.

But until that happens, I think that requiring a "Reason for flagging" post on this forum would be useful.

Still, I think we are trying to do too much with this one thread, and I hesitate to have a new purpose added to this thread.

We need separate threads for the following purpose:

• This thread should only be questions about policy and administrative issues
• Have a "Does this need to be flagged?" thread for people that want feedback before flagging a work that they aren't sure needs flagging.
• Have a "General Purpose Feedback on Flagged Works" thread to discuss anything that has been flagged but doesn't have a work specific thread.
• Have a "Reasons Why this Was Flagged" thread strictly limited for people to give the reason why something was flagged.

I agree with the flagging threads thing, so we can say, hey, dude, your flag was zapped because {explanation from mod] and it's easy to find.

@5950 I have an entire bookcase dedicated solely to my eroge collection. I'm plenty familiar with the medium.

edited 24th Jun '12 10:30:40 AM by OjamajoLimePie

I second Catbert's proposal, and would like to add that locking this thread and then Setting up a new thread on the policy might be a good idea.

@Catbert Like the ideas. Call me a cynic (because, believe me, I am) but I sincerely doubt the first one would be terribly helpful. I have a sneaking suspicion that many of the bad flags are coming from people who don't frequent these parts of the forums. While it can't hurt, I doubt it will do much good given that I don't recall much "Should I flag this?" discussion here.

Space-consuming it may be, but is that a serious concern? There is a lot going on in this thread which makes things hard to follow.

edited 24th Jun '12 11:15:51 AM by tdgoodrich1

That's why I ask to use the discussion page. To explain a flag.

The threadsplit idea sounds rather space-consuming to me.

For your afternoon case study (dis)pleasure:

Re: Jungle De Ikou

Preliminary Report:

• No manga version exists
• ANN lists objectionable content as "Significant"
• Licensed in US by Media Blasters under their Anime Works label

edited 24th Jun '12 11:30:41 AM by tdgoodrich1

theanime.org gives 13+ as a rating, animecharactersdatabase gives M.

edited 24th Jun '12 11:35:59 AM by SeptimusHeap

Thanks, Septimus.

Re: Jungle De Ikou Ep. 1

OK, within three minutes of the opening credits rolling, we have three panty shots of a ten year old. Already not looking good. And don't get me started on how poorly the character designs have aged.

Update the first: And right as I post that, a lingering shot of the girl's ass with panties in view.

edited 24th Jun '12 11:42:39 AM by tdgoodrich1

On a different subject, does anyone know anything about the manga Sundome? It was voted cut, but reading some of it, I'm starting to think it shouldn't have been. Anyone?

Use the other thread in this subforum. Page Restoration Petitions.

Re: Jungle De Ikou Ep. 1

Several more panty shots of the 10 year old girl. Also to transform into her jungle princess form (Best not ask) she has to perform an overly-sexual dance including dry-humping the air, groping herself repeatedly, and culminating in orgasm noises. Oh, did I mention that in her Gag Boobs-sporting jungle princess form she has to perform another dance to use any magic?

Also, the JSDF managed to mobilize two DDGs and scramble fighters in a matter of about a minute after a 10-story tall whale appeared in the middle of a city.

Episode 2:

At halfway mark, nothing to report, oddly.

Update: Goddamnitsomuch. At some point, you would think I would learn to keep my damned mouth shut. A minute after I posted that, a different 10 year old girl does another transformation dance rather evocative of sex, complete with panting and orgasm noises.

Update the second: And again with the first 10 year old having her orgasm transformation dance. The other (now transformed) girl remarked "That was the sleaziest transformation I have ever seen". Also, one thing I missed earlier: Nipples are depicted in relief on the transformed version of the first girl.

Episode 3:

Both girls get their orgasm dances, and the first gets a few panty shots.

Update: old man who gave the first girl her powers shows up with her panties on his head.

Update the second: After she grows into giant-size, a number of photographers take pictures up her skirt. Labia are shown in relief.

edited 24th Jun '12 1:28:21 PM by tdgoodrich1

Sounds pretty explicit for a series rated 13&up.◊

Scene is question is on youtube Looks quite comedic, but self-boob-groping and panting*

edited 24th Jun '12 1:25:10 PM by Adannor

...My first reaction was "What the fuck am I looking at?"

My second one was "Okay, no way in shit is this supposed to be pornographic, can we move onto things that don't make me want to facepalm?"

Agreeing with the others on this. I watched the entire first episode and skipped around a bit on the second. It seems intended to be more comedic than to titillate the viewers.

On that note, I was wondering just what drug-fueled mind made this in the first place. Seriously, I have no idea what I'm watching.

It's Japan. I can say completely seriously that this is hardly the strangest thing to come out of it.

But it's up there.

Sure, but what comes close to it in terms of sheer stupid?