A suggestion for the deleted porn pages (not the content, the pages)

I really, really don't get the "scary" part of the "don't want" page. I mean, it's just words on a screen, it's not anything threatening happening in the physical world. It's like people saying that forum avatars are intimidating. Oh wait, somebody did say that. When people say things like that I become concerned that they may also refer to their meat bodies, and when they step away from the computer they suffer dumpshock.

Two points for getting the reference.

edited 16th Apr '12 9:09:37 PM by Martello

Someone's a Shadowrun fan. But yeah, I get you.

BTW, even the Fetish Fuel Wiki has standards (as in over the line pages will still get cut). Actually, porn is NOT supposed to count as fetish fuel. So that's kind of contributing to Trope Decay to treat the site as a dumping ground for sex pages.

We have a format, an expected look, for pages we merely don't want. Saying "WE DON'T WANT THIS" in large, unfriendly letters suggests there's more going on here than mere not wanting. Something more visceral. More hostility towards the page, the subject, and, by extension, anyone who wants to look at a page on the subject.

Not to mention it actually says that we don't want the page. Which is actually not always the case.

I get both of your points above. Although I find the current page amusing and for certain works, satisfying, I'll admit there's probably a better option. But like I said in one of these other threads, making the argument based on "it's insulting and SCARY" is a little ridiculous and hurts the credibility of the whole issue.

If every cut page or PRLC page had the banner, it'd just be a thing. That some do and some don't suggests a difference in the pages themselves.

Although I'm sure we'll be able to come to reasonable conclusions that most people can agree on, since we have to draw the line somewhere, there will inevitably be works that are close calls.

The banner is a bad idea. We will have to cut works that have fans, and being decent people, we could at least do it in a civil manner. Would you really want a work that you're a fan of to be on the receiving end of such an obnoxious message?

edited 16th Apr '12 10:07:49 PM by Silverfire526

Let me speak as a troper who has not started using the forums until recently. In fact, as a troper who only came here because of the problems caused by the "do not want" banner.

I found out about the purge because of the banner over Lolita. I assumed Lolita had been permanently axed FROM THE BANNER CONTENT ALONE. I had nothing else to go off of. I did not know until I discovered the forums that there was a purge. I did not know there was a council.

Unless you are an active forum troper, the banner does make you assume the page has been permanently axed and this cannot and will not be disputed. It tells you that TV Tropes does not want or appreciate or consider worthy of notice the thing that has been axed.

I know that some of us don't see the banner as a problem but I'm one who saw the banner as it appears to the casual visitor. No, the banner is not insulting to me nor should it be insulting to anyone. What it is is a dead end. It destroys discussion by suggesting discussion does not, and cannot exist. That is my problem with it. Not that is insulting or scary but that it closes discussion and leads to nothing productive. That is my experience.

I'm in the same boat.

And it's not like people don't have feelings. I know it sounds lame, but words hurt sometimes.

edited 16th Apr '12 10:15:28 PM by condottiera

Am I not in a joke? I'm looking at a lot of these deleted porn pages and it just says a few words. There's nothing mean about them. The text isn't calling me a pedo-fucking homo.

It's all in your mind. There's nothing noticeably malevolent with the banner. You're all being oversensitive. If you're taking it personally, it's your fault.

I agree. Heck, I am a regular forum member and I still thought Lolita was gone for good and I saw the banner. Since I am familiar to the forums, I knew there would be a thread about it somewhere, but I never imagined the page would be possibly be restored.

The 'we don't want' is kinda mean. Specially in the way it is presented. Specially if you personally feel there is no reason for not wanting the page.

edited 16th Apr '12 10:24:08 PM by Heatth

The subtext is heavy.

Even if you claim it wasn't calling us that, it's STILL misleading to anyone that doesn't know the situation as we have been saying.

edited 16th Apr '12 10:24:24 PM by encrypted12345

Akagibika:

Exactly. The banner is not insulting or "mean" or anything. It's a dead end. It doesn't point to this forum (which a casual visitor might not even know exists) nor does it suggest that the page in question is being discussed.

The banner, in simple words, says "This page is gone." There's nothing about a restoration process or where to go to understand why it's gone.

Misleading people to think that a page is just "gone" when it isn't the case is what we ought to avoid. We want to foster discussion so that the problem is solved, not halt discussion so the problem is exacerbated.

Ak,, like I said, if it were on every page that would be one thing; as it is, it implies a difference between cut-for-porn pages and other cut pages.

To add to all complaints by others. At least for me, "We don't want this" implies "If you want it, you are not welcome there". And I doubt I am the only one who thinks this.

On a completely objective note, this banner disallows you from accessing any of the page's functions — such as Related list, to check for the wicks and possibly clean them (though accessible through address bar); Discussion, to actually ask what happened (same); or to watchlist it, to track the discussion replies (not accessible in any way, as far as I know).

edited 16th Apr '12 10:44:59 PM by OneMore

Oh for god's sakes, the banner isn't insulting you in any way, or accusing you of being a pedophile. It is simply saying "we do not want a page on this work". Only you yourself can find a way to be offended by that.

It doesn't matter what the banner meant to say, but what people understand from it. One More is not the only troper to get bad vibes from it. If there are lots of people misunderstanding it, than the problem lies in the banner itself, not on the viewer.

I think that what you feel has a great deal of effect on what you find offensive, so it's not an issue that can be separated. Besides, if you'll forgive my liberties, you don't seem like the type to let on that you're insulted.

Even if you denounce our reactions to it which are subjective and perfectly arguable, there are many objective reasons people have pointed out.

edited 16th Apr '12 10:53:39 PM by encrypted12345

As opposed to people actively looking for ways to be offended by something that merely states a fact? Then yes, I don't find it offensive, because it is simply saying that it isn't wanted on the site. Anyways, I thought my outburst that got me thumped yesterday made my position rather clear on these matters.

edited 16th Apr '12 11:20:28 PM by arcsquad12

Subtext and current context turn what may normally be considered "matter-of-fact" into Understatement. It's why Minimalism works.

@Dragon Quest Z: The owner of that place did allow it. That being said, it may have to be renamed.

edited 16th Apr '12 11:37:46 PM by encrypted12345

I'm not looking for things to be offended by. You're looking for things to argue about.

Also, I didn't see your post and I don't think I really want to. The point is that it's not there anymore.

edited 17th Apr '12 12:03:16 AM by condottiera

The text is saying we have taken our position as Moral Guardians to the level of clowns. That banner must go. Cut pages are already locked, we don't need it, anyone who asks for it to be released can be pointed to the Permanent Red Link Club, like we do with everything else. We shouldn't have one standard for porn and one for everything else. And it isn't applied uniformly because porn tropes I helped to cut before this purge - namely Unbirthing, do not have the banner, even though they should have it, more than Lolita, more than Lotte No Omocha. That page (Unbirthing) was remade 5 times and it and some other pages are what caused the current situation where cut pages are locked immediately to stop them being remade.

edited 17th Apr '12 4:54:22 AM by TheOneWhoTropes

Why do we even need the banner in the first place? The pages could have just been locked like normal. I mean, banning Lolita is something people joke about to make fun of Moral Guardians.

This is just ridiculous.