Batman General Discussion

Failsafe would be better if Superman had actually defeated him. Therefore refuting/countering the story's thesis "who stops Batman really because the solution he pitched at the end of Tower of Babel was nonsense."

In truth, yes, the bulletproof alien who can reverse time and defy gravity can stop him.

Good. I can finally make sense of this mess.

Akira Toriyama (April 5 1955 - March 1, 2024).

Zdarsky tried to make an answer for the question at the end of To B of "who can stop Batman" and boy did he give a bad answer.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

You could argue its only wrong cause DC is a shared universe and the Answer he is giving is to ultimately Validating Batman's point of view

Essentially its the issue with all the joker events where it starts with Joker forcing Bruce to run the Gauntlet against his friends in the JL who Joker has conveniently off screened and done something to them to get them to attack bruce.

If Batman was its own self contained verse, this would be fine but its not and other characters are being basically thrown under the bus so bruce can shine

As Mark Waid himself said a lot of people missed the point of Tower of Babel.

He intended Batman to come off in the wrong but the reaction people got is that Batman was right or Batman is a badass.

To the point that when To B got adapted as Justice League Doomed the way the contingencies happened and the ending were all changed to make Batman look better. The ending changing it from him bring wrong to him he's wrong for being too cool.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

It says alot about people who think abusing your friends trust is a good thing.

then again they probably ascribe to the idea Batman doesn't have friends 'outside the bat family cause hypocrisy' he only has allies of convivence!

There's a certain point Batman's contingencies are taken to a point where it's outright despicable.

Like the Injustice movie having infect Cyborg with a computer virus and Cyborg quickly uncovers Batman infected him the first day they met

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 31st 2024 at 12:34:54 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

There was an injustice movie?

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

You're kidding, right?

Every time someone claims to be realistic is a dour cynic in disguise.

No, I genuinely didn't know about this.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Well, you got lucky.

Every time someone claims to be realistic is a dour cynic in disguise.

What was Bruce's contingency for the batfamily, Left Hook and Right Jab?

Akira Toriyama (April 5 1955 - March 1, 2024).

He has a specific brand of fear toxin designed to disable Jason and the others that causes them to be paralyzed with fear if their adrenaline spikes.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Jesus

Akira Toriyama (April 5 1955 - March 1, 2024).

Yeah, Batman used this toxin during Gotham War.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Don't mind me, just derailing the convo again quickly. I've launched Batman (1940) aka the first long-running volume of Batman. It's pretty barebones and I'm going to keep working on it, and it could probably you alot of work, but it's fine for now, as it works as an index. Just letting everyone know. Please carry on with your regular scheduled programming.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!

Also that toxin sounds pretty dumb. I honestly skipped Gotham War because I'm actually interested in the split personality storyline, and it's not in that arc. Sound's like I'm not missing anything.

Edited by GateStarX on Mar 31st 2024 at 3:43:16 AM

It's gonna be fun on the bun!

Don't worry, the toxin's been ignored since the event ended.

Its a thing that happened for some reason. It feels like it was only there to having Bruce doing something mean to showcase how Zur is controlling him, but quickly afterwards him and Selina reconcile and even Jason works with him so the whole thing became completely unnecessary.

Oh dude these are a really cool. Great to have all these runs and stories catalogued.

Edited by slimcoder on Mar 31st 2024 at 3:49:42 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Yeah, seconded. Appreciate the runs being catalouged.

Akira Toriyama (April 5 1955 - March 1, 2024).

Part of it could also be the some trying too hard to justify why a Badass Normal would be one of the main leaguers when so many characters have godlike powers.
I'm reminded of a conversation I had watching Captain America: Civil War when Hawkeye go up against Vision That went
"Hawkeye is so weak. Lame.
-No he's not, He is just going up against a guy who can turn intangible and is generally far above human level, so even the best trained human fighter can't do much about it in a straight fight."
But DC can't have tweens thinking their edgy character is lame, so they can't have him as the butt of a joke like Marvel do with Hawkeye (for example). So they exaggerate him to be on par with Superman no matter how they have to stretch. Then as a result, they prop up the Joker because, well, you can't have a normal clown be the arch-enemy of someone who is on-par with Superman.

Edited by Smoker130 on Mar 31st 2024 at 1:51:48 PM

You mean, the Joker cured Jason Todd of the toxin as part of The Man Who Stopped Laughing storyline.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

How hard is it to just write a story that allows all the heroes have their awesome moments? Batman doesn't have to be capable of physically fighting Justice League level foes. Have the heavy hitters do the fighting while Batman is stealthily doing something to thwart the Big Bad 's evil plan. Nonpowered humans in Superman comis still get to do awesome stuff without needing to nerf Superman. There need to be more teamups between Bruce and Lois Lane. Why didn't they ever have her teamed up with Batgirl/Batwoman? They had Robin team up with Jimmy Olsen. Don't know why newspaper workers end up being a more realistic example of Badass Normal than the batfamily. Guess people got tired of them being just the distressed humans that need rescuing.

What to do with Batman on the Justice League is always going to be an ongoing question so long as Justice League is an on going book. Oh look, it isn't anymore! Let's take advantage of that by running yet another contingency plan gone wrong story line! Let's make it an entire arc!

I mean, what to do with Wonder Woman is often a question when it comes to Justice Society/League. Wonder Woman, Batman and Superman originally weren't part of The Society, the concept wasn't written with them in mind. Just don't include them when their strengths don't out weight their redundancies, "problem" solved! If you have a mind reading Martian on the lineup, maybe you don't need the world's greatest detective for now, it's fine. The "Bat family", The Outsiders, Batman Inc. ensure he has plenty of other teams to adventure with.

When there IS a mystery brain scanning can't solve and you can't find The Question, then bring Batman out of reserve. Mister Miracle/Ted Kord need some help with the wiring/coding/ram/hinges, well NOW we need another tech guy. Or maybe Beetle/Miracle just had a family emergency so Batman has to work extra hours. Maybe we just need another aircraft/car/submarine. Batman has his own teams in the mean time. The other members who make him redundant need their own teams too, the way Wonder Woman can always fold back into the amazons(and now Justice League Dark which was already a thing to shove Zatanna into), Green Lanterns can always go back to their corps, Hawkman can go back to his home world where applicable, Zariel can go back to heaven...k=make The Terrifics a long term thing, make a Beetle Buddies, a Green Martian-Red Planet Reclamation Conglomerate, all to more smoothly accommodate the rotating Justice League roster. Marvel did it for decades before they decided "All Must Be Avengers" in the late 2000s. DC's already got some of the ground work for it.

Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane #14 has Lois dress up◊ as Batwoman... XD

The Protomen enhanced my life.

Man, thinking of Batwoman as a love interest for Bruce is all kinds of weird now that we have modern Batwoman.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

It's all too easy to mix up Kathy and Kate. In hindsight, Morrison probably regrets not changing Kathy's name so she didn't have the same name as Bruce's cousin when they reintroduced her to continuity in their run.

In regards to Batgod, I frankly think they could alleviate a lot of the problems with it by just not clinging desperately to the idea of Batman as a Badass Normal. Like, just give him superpowers. It won't change his situation in Gotham much if at all. It would let him take part in Justice League-level battles without ridiculous Ass Pull bullshit. And you could still do the "man becomes a symbol" aspect easily.

And yeah, as has been noted, the contingencies thing is frequently taken way too far to the point it makes Batman look like a goddamned sociopath.