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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#3976: Aug 16th 2020 at 11:41:46 AM

Because unemployed people have enough time to wait a couple of hours?

I wasn’t considering a couple hours to be what you meant by “very long”, to me that read closer to three months than three hours. I’ll use myself in the UK as an example, when I moved to my previous address one of the first things I did was contact my local council for disability support, I already had a job (bar work) but needed help applying for an actually career, I chased the local authority several times to try and get the support, including two in person visits to the support people’s office.

I lived there 12 months and never got an actual appointment to get any help. That’s pretty standard from what I gather, at my previous home I lived there 18 months and had managed to get my first appointment just before I moved.

If you can generally manage a support appointment within the same day then I would genuinely consider that the peek of efficacy and an area without issue.

Define "falling through the cracks" please.

Submitting an incomplete form, not submitting their form, missing an appointment. That kind of stuff, over here a single perceived mistake can get you cut off for months, even if the mistake was actually made by the government not you.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#3977: Aug 19th 2020 at 8:31:22 AM

Don't y'all just love it when some Tinfoil Hat Idiot rants on Youtube about the Öffentlich Rechtlichen being 'State Propaganda TV'.....and then promptly links to Russia Today?

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3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#3978: Aug 19th 2020 at 8:44:45 AM

Oh please, my job is tech support for a news paper companies epaper app. I get half a dozen emails like that a day evil grin

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Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#3979: Aug 26th 2020 at 10:45:20 AM

Second Corona Demonstration on Sunday in Berlin is cancelled.

Guess all these poor 500 trillion people won't be able to infect each other :/

Edited by Forenperser on Aug 26th 2020 at 7:45:29 PM

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DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#3980: Aug 26th 2020 at 10:47:51 AM

Good.

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Zarastro Since: Sep, 2010
#3981: Aug 27th 2020 at 4:20:53 AM

[up]x5 As far as I am aware, the biggest risk for falling through the cracks of the system is not applying for help in the first place. Then it may very well happen that you loose your home and are forced on the street. Though it should be noted that even homeless people may apply for help and get a place to live in. Nobody is forced to stay homeless in Germany. And to my knowledge, the unemployment center will contact you if you fill in your forms incorrectly in time for you to apply again.

[up] It is honestly staggering how careless people behave. I visited my brother in Saxony two weeks ago, and when we were looking for a place to watch Bayern v Barcelona, we came across a bar with 20+ people in it, none of them were wearing masks. They were also very close together. When the bar owner saw us (we had masks on) he even told us that masks were unnecessary. Needless to say, we continued looking for another place. Though I won't be surprised if there is an infection spike in this are in the forseeable futurw.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#3982: Aug 27th 2020 at 5:21:43 AM

The infection rate is rising again, in fact

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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#3983: Aug 27th 2020 at 7:51:56 PM

As far as I am aware, the biggest risk for falling through the cracks of the system is not applying for help in the first place.

And how is the system about educating people on the availability of support? Is it just down to cultural osmosis or do people actually get taught/informed of the fact that support exists?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#3984: Aug 27th 2020 at 10:56:04 PM

I don't remember learning about any of that in school, personally. When I had to apply for Hartz IV, I mostly got my information from family members and by making an appointment with the employment office.

Now, a big reason why people often seem to "fall through the cracks" isn't as much a lack of information - as anyone can just go to the employment office to get themselves informed or be redirected to there if they asked at another place - but stigmatisation.

I mentioned before how private entertainment media in Germany have done a great job at portraying people who receive unemployment benefits as lazy and antisocial parasites for the purpose of pandering to the lowest common denominator - to the point that RTL's program is colloquially known as "Hartz TV".

It also doesn't help that the people working in the relevant departments are encouraged to pretty much shut off their empathy to avoid making unsound decisions - like approving somebody's request for the benefits despite them not actually being eligible - which has lead to a, to be frank, hostile environment, where people asking for help are seen as a nuisance that needs to be removed from the unemployment statistic ASAP.

That's led to the employment office often shoving Hartz IV recipients into "application training" programs or mini-jobs that don't pay enough to cover your basic needs (people working those are often called "Aufstocker" because they're still getting enough benefits to reach the same income as somebody who isn't working at all).

Both of these examples are still on Hartz IV, yet don't show up in the unemployment statistic because they're ''technically doing something''. So whenever I see people talk about lower unemployment numbers, I have some serious doubt about that.

Between the media portayal of unemployed people and an employment office that often comes off as uncaring or borderline hostile, it's no wonder people have a hard time actually going there. Having to admit that you need help is humiliating for a lot of people.

What also doesn't help is that employment counsellor assigned to you is rotated away from you ever 6 months to avoid fraternisation, which can be espacially galling if you were lucky enough to get one actually interested in helping instead of just trying to shove you somewhere.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Aug 27th 2020 at 7:58:06 PM

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Khudzlin Since: Nov, 2013
#3985: Aug 28th 2020 at 4:30:48 AM

[up] In short, people who need help are treated as problems.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#3986: Aug 28th 2020 at 5:53:43 AM

A court overruled Berlin's decision, seems like the Corona Protest will happen after all.

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DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#3987: Aug 28th 2020 at 5:55:02 AM

Well, until the idiots violate the rules again and police just shuts them down. Again.

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#3988: Aug 29th 2020 at 6:15:02 AM

Well, would you look at that. Just as I said, police shut down the protest after people didn't follow the rules again.

Berlin: Police call off protests against coronavirus curbs

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Aug 29th 2020 at 3:17:45 PM

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#3989: Aug 29th 2020 at 3:02:04 PM

Conspiracy nutbag Attila Hildmann got arrested. I was cheering all the way for the police in this particular case!

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DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#3990: Aug 29th 2020 at 3:03:22 PM

[up] As I mentioned in the protest thread, a group of covidiots tried to storm the Reichstag.

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Zarastro Since: Sep, 2010
#3991: Aug 31st 2020 at 9:51:45 AM

And they came scarily close to succeeding. All that stood between their goal was a glass door and 3 brave police officers. The pictures were already ugly enough as they were. Now imagine if some skinheads had stormed the building and e.g. taken pictures of them sitting on the government bench.

That would have been a national embarassment and no boubt encouraged more of those freaks.

Edited by Zarastro on Aug 31st 2020 at 6:52:30 PM

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#3992: Aug 31st 2020 at 12:36:43 PM

How Angela Merkel’s great migrant gamble paid off

Five years ago, as more and more refugees crossed into Europe, Germany’s chancellor proclaimed, ‘We’ll manage this.’ Critics said it was her great mistake – but she has been proved right

Mohammad Hallak found the key to unlock the mysteries of his new homeland when he realised you could switch the subtitles on your Netflix account to German. The 21-year-old Syrian from Aleppo jotted down words he didn’t know, increased his vocabulary and quickly became fluent. Last year, he passed his end of high school exams with a grade of 1.5, the top mark in his year group.

Five years to the month after arriving in Germany as an unaccompanied minor, Hallak is now in his third term studying computer science at the Westphalian University of Applied Sciences and harbours an aspiration to become an IT entrepreneur. “Germany was always my goal”, he says, in the mumbled sing-song of the Ruhr valley dialect. “I’ve always had a funny feeling that I belong here.”

Hallak, an exceptionally motivated student with high social aptitude, is not representative of all the 1.7 million people who applied for asylum in Germany between 2015 and 2019, making it the country with the fifth highest population of refugees in the world. Some of those with whom he trekked through Turkey and across the Mediterranean, he says, haven’t picked up more than a few words and “just chill”.

But Hallak is not a complete outlier either. More than 10,000 people who arrived in Germany as refugees since 2015 have mastered the language sufficiently to enrol at a German university. More than half of those who came are in work and pay taxes. Among refugee children and teenagers, more than 80% say they have a strong sense of belonging to their German schools and feel liked by their peers.

Success stories like Hallak’s partially redeem the optimism expressed by Angela Merkel in a sentence she spoke five years ago this week, at the peak of one of the most tumultuous years in recent European history – a sentence that nearly cost her her job and that she herself has partially retreated from.

“I put it simply, Germany is a strong country,” the German chancellor told the media at a press conference in central Berlin on 31 August 2015, trying to address concerns about the steeply rising number of people – mostly from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan – applying for asylum in Germany that summer.

“The motive with which we approach these matters must be: we have already managed so much, we’ll manage this.” During the German TV broadcast of her interview, headlines flashed up to report that Hungary was sending trainloads of people to the German border, 20,000 of whom turned up at Munich central station the following week alone.

The German phrase Merkel used, Wir schaffen das, became so memorable mainly because it would in the weeks and months that followed be endlessly quoted back at her by those who believed that the German chancellor’s optimistic message had encouraged millions more migrants to embark on a dangerous odyssey across the Med. “Merkel’s actions, now, will be hard to correct: her words cannot be unsaid,” wrote the Spectator. “She has exacerbated a problem that will be with us for years, perhaps decades.”

The Alternative für Deutschland party, founded two years previously on a more narrowly anti-euro ticket, discovered a new populist stride: when Merkel said “We will manage”, the rightwing party claimed, she really meant “You will manage”, asking the German public to cope with rising levels of crime, terrorism and public disorder.

“We don’t want to manage this!” the Af D politician Alexander Gauland proclaimed at a party rally in October 2015. Over the coming months and years – in the wake of the New Year’s Eve sexual assaults in Cologne, the Bataclan terror attack in Paris and the truck rampage on Berlin’s Breitscheidtplatz Christmas market – that sentiment seemed to gain traction with a growing part of the German population, even when the crimes were not carried out by people who had arrived in 2015.

By 2017, there was a prevalent view that Wir schaffen das would be Merkel’s undoing, a “catastrophic mistake” as Donald Trump said in January that year. “The worst decision a European leader has made in modern times,” Nigel Farage told Fox News. “She’s finished.”

Yet today Merkel still sits at the top of Europe’s largest economy, her personal approval ratings back to where they were at the start of 2015 and the polling of her party, the Christian Democratic Union (CDU), buoyed to record levels by the global pandemic. When Merkel steps down ahead of federal elections in 2021, as is expected, her party’s successor currently looks more likely to be a centrist in her mould than a hardliner promising a symbolic break with her stance on immigration.

The Af D, meanwhile, never reached the point “when it will be the country’s second-largest party”, as historian Niall Ferguson predicted in February 2018. The party has established a steady presence in local parliaments across Germany, especially in the states of the formerly socialist east. But at federal level the Af D has dropped to fourth in the polls, down from its third place and 12.6% at elections in 2017, and has been stricken with infighting since immigration has dropped off the top of the political agenda.

The spectre of jihadist terrorism, which some feared the refugee crisis would usher into the heart of central Europe, has faded from view in recent years. After a spate of seven attacks with an Islamist motive in Germany in 2016, culminating with a truck driven into a Berlin Christmas market that December, the country has seen no further attacks for the last three years.

Peter Neumann, a terrorism expert at King’s College London’s Department of War Studies, recalls being invited onto a German TV programme at the height of the crisis in 2015. “I gave my optimistic best back then, but deep down I was worried,” he says. “Will this work out? With nearly a million people about whom we know so little? In the end, those fears were misplaced.

“We know that some of the men involved in the Bataclan attack had exploited the chaos to smuggle themselves into Europe, in some cases posing as Syrian refugees. We also knew that the vast majority of people who arrived were young men, the very demographic is most susceptible to radicalisation. And yet, we can now say that the worst fears haven’t come true.

“In hindsight, Isis’s collapse happened quicker than we expected. It’s now clear that what made them so attractive for a while is less their ideology than their success. And when Isis stopped being successful, it stopped being attractive.”

However, Neumann says this was also due to the increasing efficiency of German intelligence agencies. According to data collected by Petter Nesser, a senior research fellow with the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment, 16 terror plots with a jihadist motive have been foiled on German soil since the start of 2015, more than in France or the UK over the same period.

The events of the summer of 2015 did evidently mobilise and further radicalise Germany’s rightwing extremist circles, who targeted asylum shelters with arson attacks or assassinated politicians with pro-immigration views, such as the CDU’s Walter Lübcke. No other country in Europe saw as much severe and fatal rightwing violence in 2019 as Germany.

Germany’s Federal Office of Criminal Investigations records a rise of criminal offences, including violent crime, in the years between 2014 and 2016, linking the trend to the influx of migration. The percentage of asylum seekers found guilty of such crimes also doubled in the same period. However, the majority of these offences were within the refugee shelters where new arrivals were initially housed. By 2017, when Trump claimed that “crime in Germany is way up” because it had taken in “all of those illegals”, the number of overall recorded crimes was decreasing. Last year, crime in Germany sank to an 18-year low.

What about the organised crime on Europe’s borders, where human traffickers prey on those willing to risk it all in the hope of a better life? In a 2017 book on reforming asylum policy, British economist Paul Collier argued that “while the industry was already well-established in the Mediterranean, the massive rise in demand triggered by the invitation from Germany further increased demand for smuggling by criminal syndicates.”

Gerald Knaus, chairman of the European Stability Initiative, a thinktank that advises EU member-states on migration policy, disagrees vehemently: “The thesis that Merkel created the refugee crisis was absurd in 2015, and it’s even more absurd in retrospect,” he says.

Empirical studies have failed to find data proving that Merkel’s Wir schaffen das significantly intensified the movement of refugees into Europe, although it is likely that the attention drawn towards Germany’s liberal stance on asylum influenced the decisions of those who were already in Europe at the time.

“The question is: what could she have done differently?” says Knaus. “Reintroduce borders and try what France did after the Bataclan attacks in November 2015, sending all irregular migrants back to Italy? That proved futile: France received twice as many asylum applications in 2019 as in 2015. You can’t seal a wide-open border with rhetoric and a few more border guards, while brutality was fortunately ruled out in Germany.”

Germany’s stance in 2015 did prove too optimistic in the sense that Merkel’s government seemed to believe that the tumultuous events of that summer would lead to a quick reform of the Dublin Regulation, the mechanism that determines which state is responsible for examining an asylum application. Knaus says: “The Germans thought everyone would sign up to a quota system because it was ‘fair’, but they couldn’t explain how this would work in practice.”

Instead, Merkel’s government took unilateral steps to slow down the rate of new arrivals to a trickle. An agreement between Turkey and the EU to stop irregular migration and replace it with a resettlement scheme, developed by Knaus’s thinktank, drastically stemmed the flow of migrants to Europe in 2016. Merkel’s government later tried to limit asylum applications from north Africa by adding Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia to its list of countries considered safe, though the proposal was later rejected by the upper chamber of Germany’s parliament.

In March this year, Germany launched a social media campaign to deter Syrian refugees from embarking on a journey to central Europe, and Merkel’s “grand coalition” with the centre-left Social Democratic party voted against taking in even just 5,000 vulnerable refugees stranded in Greek camps.

Merkel never recanted her words of August 2015, as many even in her own party insisted she should. But she did ensure a situation like the one that followed won’t be repeated on German soil during her tenure.

On a sweltering afternoon in Berlin’s suburban south, preparations are afoot for the annual summer fete at the Marienfelde transit centre, a sprawling concrete camp that used to be the first port of call for many East Germans who fled to the west during the cold war, and now houses asylum seekers from around the world. While volunteers erect socially distanced benches and hang up garlands in the courtyard, a group of men and women from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq have gathered inside to meet the Berlin senate’s integration officer, to ask for advice and air grievances.

A 44-year-old Syrian is concerned that he might fail next month’s language exam, even though he will need a pass in order to start working. German classes have been cancelled because of the pandemic, and the wireless signal inside the camp is too weak for online learning. “Berlin, on our doorstep, that is Europe,” says the man, who doesn’t want to give his name for fear of getting into trouble with the Syrian embassy. “But this shelter is like a little Syria: everyone speaks Arabic.”

Germany was not the destination of choice for the father of three, who arrived in the country via the resettlement programme of the United Nations’ refugee agency, the UNHCR, in 2018. He is grateful that Merkel’s government took him in, but the wait for a work permit is starting to exasperate him. Before Berlin, he worked for six years as a pastry chef in Izmit, Turkey, but German bakers won’t accept his qualifications – he would need to do another two-year apprenticeship first. “It’s very frustrating.”

The integration officer assures him she empathises with his plight: Katarina Niewiedzial, who has been in the post since 2019, was once a migrant herself, having arrived in Germany from Poland as a 12-year-old. She knows from personal experience the areas of public life where Germany is ill-equipped for the task of integrating newcomers.

German employers are often still reluctant to recognise foreign qualifications. If migrants lack the certificates to prove they are qualified enough to do a job, they can apply to prove their skills in an interview, but they need fluent German to do so – a bigger challenge for adults in their 40s than teenagers like Hallak. Last year, the German Chamber of Commerce only carried out 80 such “qualification analysis” processes in the whole of Germany.

Often refugees end up in jobs they are overqualified for, such as catering, which in turn are more precarious and have cut staff during the pandemic: in May this year, the number of unemployed Berliners without a German passport was up by 40% compared to the same period in 2019.

Many experts think that the integration classes that have been mandatory for refugees in Germany since 2005 are no longer fit for purpose, holding back those with academic qualifications while failing to offer real help for those who arrive without being able to read or write. The percentage of those failing the all-important B1 language test has risen rather than fallen over the last five years. And yet, Niewiedzial is optimistic. “Germany can be a very sluggish country, full of tiresome bureaucracy,” she says. “But it’s also able to learn from its mistakes and draw consequences from them.”

Since 2015, she says, the state had massively expanded its asylum authority, created thousands of posts to coordinate volunteers, turned shelters into permanent homes and trained specialist teachers. Germany has managed. “It’s a success story, even if no one quite has the confidence to say that yet."

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#3993: Aug 31st 2020 at 1:19:52 PM

<claps hands>

Merkel has been Chancellor for 15 years now. In fact, I have childhood memories of politics involving her. There are some things about her policies that I don't like (her approach to the Euro crisis in particular) but a lot of credit is due for her decisions during the immigration crisis. Hats off to Mutti.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#3994: Aug 31st 2020 at 1:29:55 PM

Yeah, this woman has endured and continued despite all the vitriolic hate spewn into her direction.

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Zarastro Since: Sep, 2010
#3995: Aug 31st 2020 at 6:54:54 PM

It is honestly somewhat amusing that a politician who has often been criticized for not taking a stand and being boring/cautious will likely go down in history as Germany's most polarizing post-war chancellor.

Another interesting observation is how quick perceptions can change. At the beginning of the year there were a lot of signs that her coalition would break before the next election, possibly before this summer. Now something extraordinary would have to occur for that, if only because the voters would have no understanding for a break-up due to minor political differences.

It is also interesting how the perception of the refugee crisis changed. Most people would have called it the most significant domestic crisis since 1990, or even possibly since 1945. Now it looks small in comparison to the pandemic we currently experience. I wouldn't be surprised if the refugee crisis should be listed by future historians as merely one part of Merkel's big struggle for the survival of the EU. The way she and Macron paved the way for a European response to the pandemic certainly reinforces this impression.

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#3996: Sep 7th 2020 at 10:40:43 PM

Trump Emerges as Inspiration for Germany’s Far Right

Among German conspiracy theorists, ultranationalists and neo-Nazis, the American president is surfacing as a rallying cry, or even as a potential “liberator.”

By Katrin Bennhold

BERLIN — Just before hundreds of far-right activists recently tried to storm the German Parliament, one of their leaders revved up the crowd by conjuring President Trump.

“Trump is in Berlin!” the woman shouted from a small stage, as if to dedicate the imminent charge to him.

She was so convincing that several groups of far-right activists later showed up at the American Embassy and demanded an audience with Mr. Trump. “We know he’s in there!” they insisted.

Mr. Trump was neither in the embassy nor in Germany that day — and yet there he was. His face was emblazoned on banners, T-shirts and even on Germany’s pre-1918 imperial flag, popular with neo-Nazis in the crowd of 50,000 who had come to protest Germany’s pandemic restrictions. His name was invoked by many with messianic zeal.

It was only the latest evidence that Mr. Trump is emerging as a kind of cult figure in Germany’s increasingly varied far-right scene.

“Trump has become a savior figure, a sort of great redeemer for the German far right,” said Miro Dittrich, an expert on far-right extremism at the Berlin-based Amadeu-Antonio-Foundation.

Germany — a nation generally supportive of a government that has handled the pandemic better than most — may seem an unlikely place for Mr. Trump to gain such a status. Few Western nations have had a more contentious relationship with Mr. Trump than Germany, whose leader, Chancellor Angela Merkel, a pastor’s daughter and scientist, is his opposite in terms of values and temperament. Opinion polls show that Mr. Trump is deeply unpopular among a broad majority of Germans.

But his message of disruption — his unvarnished nationalism and tolerance of white supremacists coupled with his skepticism of the pandemic’s dangers — is spilling well beyond American shores, extremism watchers say.

In a fast-expanding universe of disinformation, that message holds real risks for Western democracies, they say, blurring the lines between real and fake news, allowing far-right groups to extend their reach beyond traditional constituencies and seeding the potential for violent radicalization.

Mr. Trump’s appeal to the political fringe has now added a new and unpredictable element to German politics at a time when the domestic intelligence agency has identified far-right extremism and far-right terrorism as the biggest risks to German democracy.

The authorities have only recently woken up to a problem of far-right infiltration in the police and military. Over the past 15 months, far-right terrorists killed a regional politician on his front porch near the central city of Kassel, attacked a synagogue in the eastern city of Halle and shot dead nine people of immigrant descent in the western city of Hanau. Mr. Trump featured in the manifesto of the Hanau killer, who praised his “America First” policy.

In Germany, as in the United States, Mr. Trump has become an inspiration to these fringe groups. Among them are not only long-established hard-right and neo-Nazi movements, but also now followers of Q Anon, the internet conspiracy theory popular among some of Mr. Trump’s supporters in the United States that hails him as a hero and liberator.

Germany’s Q Anon community, barely existent when the pandemic first hit in March, may now be the biggest outside the United States along with Britain, analysts who track its most popular online channels say.

Matthias Quent, an expert on Germany’s far right and the director of an institute that studies democracy and civil society, calls it the “Trumpification of the German far right.”

“Trump has managed to attract different milieus, and that’s what we’re seeing here, too,” Mr. Quent said. “We have everything from anti-vaxxers to neo-Nazis marching against corona measures. The common denominator is that it’s people who are quitting the mainstream, who are raging against the establishment.”

Trump, he added, “is the guy fighting the liberal-democratic establishment.”

For some on the far-right fringes, Mr. Trump’s message has been especially welcome at a time when Germany’s homegrown nativist party, the Alternative for Germany, or Af D, is struggling to exploit the pandemic and has seen its support dip to around 10 percent, experts say.

Nationalist populists in Germany have long welcomed the presence of one of their own, as they see it, in the White House. Mr. Trump’s language and ideology have helped legitimize theirs.

The Af D has repeatedly paraphrased Mr. Trump by calling for a “Germany first” approach. But the president is popular in more extremist circles, too. Caroline Sommerfeld, a prominent ideologue of a contingent known as the “new right” with close links to the extremist Generation Identity movement, said she had popped open a bottle of champagne when Mr. Trump won the 2016 election.

The Q Anon phenomenon has added a new kind of fuel to that fire.

Q Anon followers argue that Mr. Trump is fighting a “deep state” that not only controls finance and power, but also abuses and murders children in underground prisons to extract a substance that keeps its members young. German followers contend that the “deep state” is global, and that Ms. Merkel is part of it. Mr. Trump, they say, will liberate Germany from the Merkel “dictatorship.”

The far-right magazine Compact, which has printed Mr. Trump’s speeches for its readers, had a giant Q on its latest cover and held a “Q-week” on its video channel, interviewing far-right extremists like Björn Höcke. On the streets of Berlin last weekend there were Q flags and T-shirts and several banners inscribed with “WWG 1 WGA,” a coded acronym for Q’s hallmark motto, “Where we go one, we go all.”

Hard numbers are difficult to discern, with followers often subscribing to accounts on different platforms, analysts say. News Guard, a U.S.-based disinformation watchdog, found that across Europe, accounts on You Tube, Facebook and Telegram promoting the Q Anon conspiracy counted 448,000 followers.

In Germany alone, the number of followers of Q Anon-related accounts has risen to more than 200,000, Mr. Dittrich said. The largest German-language Q Anon channel on You Tube, Qlobal-Change, has over 17 million views and has quadrupled its following on Telegram to over 124,000 since the coronavirus lockdown in March, he said.

“There is a huge Q community in Germany,” Mr. Dittrich said, with new posts and memes that dominate the message boards in the United States immediately translated and interpreted into German.

The fusion of the traditional far right with the Q Anon crowd was something new, Mr. Quent said. “It’s a new and diffuse kind of populist rebellion that feeds on conspiracy theories and is being supplied with ideology from different corners of the far-right ecosystem,” he said.

One reason the Q Anon conspiracy has taken off in Germany, Mr. Dittrich said, is that it is a good fit with local conspiracy theories and fantasies popular on the far right.

One of them is the “great replacement,” which claims that Ms. Merkel and other governments have been deliberately bringing in immigrants to subvert Germany’s ethnic and cultural identity. Another is a purported national crisis called “Day X,” when Germany’s current order will supposedly collapse and neo-Nazis take over.

A third theory is the belief that Germany is not a sovereign country but an incorporated company and occupied territory controlled by globalists.

This belief is held among a faction known as “Reichsbürger,” or citizens of the Reich, who orchestrated the brief storming on Parliament on Aug. 29. They do not recognize Germany’s post-World War II Federal Republic and are counting on Mr. Trump and President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia to sign a “peace treaty” to liberate Germans from their own government.

Another reason for Q Anon’s spread is that several German celebrities have become multipliers of the conspiracy, among them a former news presenter and a rapper and former judge on Germany’s equivalent of “American Idol.”

One of the biggest figures spreading the Q Anon conspiracy is Attila Hildmann, a vegan-celebrity-chef-turned-far-right-influencer with more than 80,000 followers on the Telegram messaging app. He has appeared at all major coronavirus marches in Berlin, venting against face masks, Bill Gates and the Rothschild family — and appealing to Mr. Trump to liberate Germany.

“Trump is someone who has been fighting the global ‘deep state’ for years,” Mr. Hildmann said in an interview this past week. “Trump has become a figure of light in this movement, especially for Q Anon, precisely because he fights against these global forces.”

“That’s why the hope for the German national movement, or the liberation movement, lies basically with Q and Trump, because Trump is a figure of light because he shows that you can fight these global powers and that he is victorious,” Mr. Hildmann said.

“The Germans hope that Trump will liberate Germany from the Merkel corona regime,” he said, so that “the German Reich is reactivated.”

Mr. Hildmann’s influence became plain in June, when he mobilized thousands of people to send messages to the U.S. and Russian embassies in Berlin to appeal for help. In the space of a few days, 24,000 tweets had been received by the embassies calling on Mr. Trump and Mr. Putin to “liberate” Germany from Ms. Merkel’s “criminal regime” and prevent “forced vaccination” and “genocide.”

Germany’s domestic intelligence agency has warned of the risk of far-right extremists using the pandemic for their own purposes. This past week the agency’s chief, Thomas Haldenwang, said that “aggressive and disruptive far-right elements” were the driving force behind the protests over coronavirus restrictions.

But extremism experts and lawmakers worry that the security services are not paying close enough attention to the violent potential in the mix of Q Anon disinformation campaigns and homegrown far-right ideology.

In the United States, some Q Anon believers have been charged with violent crimes, including one accused of murdering a mafia boss in New York last year and another arrested in April after reportedly threatening to kill Joseph R. Biden Jr., who has since become the Democratic presidential candidate. The F.B.I. has warned that Q Anon poses a potential domestic terrorism threat.

In Germany, language reminiscent of Q Anon was used in the manifesto of the gunman who killed nine people with immigrant roots in the western city of Hanau in February.

“We have already seen that this conspiracy has the potential to radicalize people,” Mr. Dittrich said.

There are an estimated 19,000 Reichsbürger in Germany, about 1,000 of them classified as far-right extremists by the domestic intelligence service. Many of them are armed.

“At a time when some people are determined to destroy democratic discourse with all means possible,” said Konstantin von Notz, a lawmaker and deputy president of the intelligence oversight committee, “we have to take such a phenomenon very seriously.”

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#3997: Sep 8th 2020 at 12:24:43 AM

[up] So basically, Trump's filling German fascists need for an icon to rally around? That's just peachy, isn't it.

In some good news, though, apparently the AfD's headed for yet another power struggle.

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
CookingCat Since: Jul, 2018
#3998: Sep 8th 2020 at 5:15:35 AM

[up] Don't forget, his grandfather was from Germany.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#3999: Sep 8th 2020 at 5:34:07 AM

[up] Oh no no no no no, we're not gonna claim him. He's a product of America, don't blame us for the guy.

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Alycus Since: Apr, 2018
#4000: Sep 8th 2020 at 5:43:11 AM

And how is his ancestry relevant in any way at all?


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