Covington, KT PD can arrest kids for Truancy

I have the biggest feeling that I'm missing something here. Can someone explain to me how taking kids to jail is supposed to solve kids not going to school? Jail is still not school; doesn't this extend the problem and make it harder for the kid to get to school?

tout est sacré pour un sacreur (Avatar by Rappu!)

Depends on the bullying and on the education. And even in many of the contexts where it is preferable, I'm still a little hesitant to pass judgment on kids for not believing that.

Bullying is just an example. The point is, schools have numerous problems they have failed to address, ones that jailing kids for skipping school isn't going to solve, and if anything seem partly like an attempt to get around addressing. (Why admit your school is fucked up when you can just pass the blame onto the truant students?)

Fine lessons they're getting, then. If anything, I'd say the lessons kids learn from students getting away with bullying and all that probably causes more crime than truancy would.

I don't consider personal experience a very trustworthy learning source in general, but especially not the kind of experiences associated with school these days. Unless we have a sure-fire way to fix these problems, I say give up on using "experience" to teach kids these things and start using logic.

Don't get me wrong, I went to most of my classes, at least in elementary, middle, and high school, partly because my parents, both teachers, helped encourage me along. Those without such encouragement may be more overwhelmed by school, and jailing them for avoiding it just seems sickening if you ask me.

edited 7th Jan '12 8:44:43 PM by HiddenFacedMatt

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

^ Very rarely do kids acts like complete jerks and get away with zero consequences. Even if the staff does nothing, they're going to find themselves unwanted by the other students.

And on the other side, while it can be painful, learning to deal with asshats is an important skill.

This might just be because the bullying I had was less extreme than what you've experienced. I got called names, mocked, and all the other sorts of verbal abuse, but I was never beat up. If I had I'd probably think differently, but I feel that the experience left me a better person than I would be if everyone had been nice to me.

edited 7th Jan '12 8:48:20 PM by RTaco

Except you never know what is going to be effective at that, as it varies so much from circumstance to circumstance. Sometimes "learning to deal with asshats" entails using manipulative or deceptive methods that end up being more effective than others, essentially resulting in a generation of dishonest brats. Worse yet, they might even take it out on those whose fault the bullying was not. Who knows what kind of people THEY will turn out to be?

Again, personal experience is not a trustworthy source for learning.

EDITED IN: I was not saying they get away with zero consequences. My point is that there is considerable injustice in how it's dealt with, and using those experiences to teach kids how to deal with others can only cause more injustice.

edited 7th Jan '12 8:50:06 PM by HiddenFacedMatt

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

I dunno. I'm kinda in the same camp as Taco here. If I had been completely sheltered from bullying during my school days, then I probably never would have survived working customer service, where customers are worse than any bully I ever had to deal with.

Bullies can get suspended, customers are always right. Skipping school because you can't deal with someone is really not a good idea.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Hm... in this particular case, it probably should be the parents getting punished for their kids skipping, but I don't think that would work out either, given the circumstances— The article states that the problem is that 90% of that town is below the poverty line, so parents can't afford daycares and such so parents are having kids stay home to babysit/do housework/etc.

As for the idea in general... Don't know. It points out that most officers'll give kids a warning so long as they're not habitually out on the streets. It probably shouldn't be the parents punished for it, since they're not necessary complicit in the skipping- Older kids who're expected to get up and catch the bus or drive to school of their own accord can just sneak out sometime in the morning, or catch the bus and leave before class starts and be back at home when they're "supposed" to be, with their folks none the wiser, since schools won't always call parents or the parents being unable to be contacted. As for innocent home-schooled kids, don't know- they pose a bit of a problem, but so long as they or the police officer can contact their parents while they're out or maybe have some sort of note from...whoever you talk to to be allowed to homeschool your kids, it shouldn't be too much of an issue. I don't expect there to be a huge homeschooling population in the sort of areas where this kind of thing is necessary, though.

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?

Oh lookie here, another important lesson for kids to learn through this: Life ain't fair, so learn to deal with yours or else make room for the people who can. Maybe it's a bit of an unfortunate lesson to learn, but we've all gotta learn it sometime, and the best way to learn it is to not have it sugarcoated.

Hell, if it wasn't for the bullying problems I had in middle school, I don't think I'd be as capable in dealing with pricks as I am today. (For the record, it included constant verbal abuse, death threats, slamming my head into lockers, screwing with my work for the school paper, and just generally being a manipulative fat f--)

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^

This. If I were homeschooled, I never would have been able to be an assertive cop. Wouldn't have happened, no way no how. I had to learn not to be meek when people were being mean, never to be a victim, and never to make myself a target.

Life is hard, there's no real way to make that lesson easy, and to be honest we'd be doing children a disservice if we did.

Then again, we can always just give them tons of those tic tacs that make them think their wrists contain free money.

edited 14th Jan '12 7:27:20 PM by Barkey

One more in the camp of absolute protection will do you no favours in the real world.

Who watches the watchmen?

True but there is a difference between "absolute protection" and not having to go to a school where you face physical and emotional violence on a daily basic.y.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

More like "life ain't fair, so at least try to take advantage of what's unfair in your favour rather than be in any way principled or moral about it." Let's face it, it's not just that it's tough, but also that it rewards bad behaviour and punishes the good when people can get away with bullying and those who try to be kind are walked all over.

And then we wonder why so many kids grow up to be criminals.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

You're not missing anything. It basically isn't going to solve the problem.

I'm not really sure what to say to this, otherwise, or how to fix it...

"Shit, our candidate is a psychopath. Better replace him with Newt Gingrich."

I don't really see how a society can rationally justify its citizens not getting educated.

I mean, personal freedom is fine and all but the line has to be drawn when we are so passive we are letting people who aren't given the capacity to make rational decisions to make major decisions in their life.

I'd rather there be a loss of freedom that leads to further growth rather than ag eneration of useless people who realize what they could've been.

I'm not really going to go further since I'm not interested in the subject matter to really continue.

There's no space in the name.

Matt: How exactly is negative behavior being rewarded? Not being punished, maybe, but rewarded?

It almost sounds like you have a specific example you're basing this on. I'm very skeptical of the notion that education has a positive correlation with criminal behavior.

If I had been sheltered all my life, I'd still be a selfish, entitled brat with no idea of what to do when I didn't get my way. Bullying hurt, but it fixed that.

edited 15th Jan '12 7:51:52 PM by RTaco

Simple. Bullies, by not being punished, get benefitted overall by committing bullying. Those who try to be kind, on the other hand, get walked all over for being kind. Obviously this kind of thing will cause criminal behaviour, just like giving a dog treats for doing tricks causes the dog to do more tricks.

"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart

"Benefitted overall from committing bullying". What? I don't follow your logic; bullies don't really gain anything from picking on people, other than briefly making themselves feel more smug. They do, however, find it very hard to make friends, while friendly people end up with lots of folks willing to do stuff for them.

edited 16th Jan '12 5:54:50 PM by RTaco

Matt: Are you trying to use classical conditioning to explain why people bully? Because that's not how it works.

"You fail to grasp the basic principles of mad science. Common sense would be cheating." - Narbonic

This doesn't seem like it's going to work.

and Seconded.

While I agree that there is a serious problem with bullying today that has disastrous effects on people, the fact is that people still need to learn to deal with such personalities. If they can't deal on their own or if it gets to the point where it's overly excessive without the bully being punished, there's therapy for that to prevent them from becoming another national headline and a big ol' harassment lawsuit that the kid['s parents] could be slapped with by the parents of the victim. But I digress.

Like it said, the point is that if you don't learn to deal with these people (especially early in life), how will you deal with the real world? The real world does not coddle you. The real world will not try to protect you if people harass you. The real world is harsh and unforgiving...unless you know how to deal with the rest of the world.

edited 17th Jan '12 9:01:16 PM by 0dd1

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.

"Need to learn"? That implies that kids are capable of dealing with the bullying whatever form it takes. Which is, I can say from experience, simply not true.

It's like saying kids need to learn to read. Yeah, certainly, definitely. But does that always happen? No. It's an expectation, not a condition, one based on assumed priveledge and one that can't be applied carte blanche to everyone.

I'm so off topic, I don't even. Make a spin off thread?

This post has been powered by avenging fury and a balanced diet.

I'll quote myself to reply to the first paragraph of that post you made and leave it to be done with: "If they can't deal on their own or if it gets to the point where it's overly excessive without the bully being punished, there's therapy for that to prevent them from becoming another national headline and a big ol' harassment lawsuit that the kid['s parents] could be slapped with by the parents of the victim."

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.