The current image doesn't really have anything to do with the trope.: Deus Ex Machina

The current image for Deus ex Machina doesn't really have anything to do with the trope; it's just a picture of the Trope Namer (which in this case, while was generally used as an example, doesn't actually show that in the picture.) I mean, yes, fine, it has a connection in the literal sense, but it doesn't tell you anything about the trope. Even though it came from a previous Image Picking thread, I think I have a better image right here:

(From Tom The Dancing Bug. In fact, I was going to just add this image until I saw that the previous one was the result of a thread.)

edited 18th Nov '11 10:56:48 AM by Aquillion

I was already decided in an image pickin.

Also this trope is hard to picture, so Trope Namer seemed best fit or no picture at all...

And also, I vote for keeping it, because I think it's a better choice than the new proposed picture.

edited 18th Nov '11 11:00:11 AM by marheavenangel89

This is Mimi-don't let her cuteness fool you-she's got spunk.

IIRC, a God Man example that's almost exactly like that is in use on another page and works better there. I'm fine with the current pic, as it'll be rather difficult to pic the actual trope without a parody or lampshade. Plus, there's the whole "previous IP thread" thing, too.

I wasn't aware that "previous IP" mattered. Like I said in my post, I was aware of that; the comment on the page says "if you want to change the image, make a new thread in IP."

But it's not a "we decided, now it can never be changed again" thing. Page images are supposed to be fluid — they're not like names, where there's an advantage to being rigid and favoring the status quo. My understanding is that IP only exists to discourage edit wars when people want to change them, not to pick a "final" image.

That being said I still say the current image is fine.

This is Mimi-don't let her cuteness fool you-she's got spunk.

You're right in that just because an IP thread decides on a pic doesn't mean that pic's locked on the page. However, once a thread's decided on a pic, it's generally understood that for a new thread to be made about the same page, any of a number of things would have to have happened:

• Someone removed or changed the pic without starting a new thread
• Someone's pointed out that the pic actually doesn't work as well as was previously thought (this can be for any number of reasons, especially if the trope was changed via TRS)
• A "better" example is found (this one is heavily discouraged unless the suggestion is leaps and bounds better than the current pic)

Also, repeatedly making IP threads about a particular page just because someone doesn't like the pic that's used is abusing the system and is grounds for an edit ban. Note that I'm not accusing you of this, just making that known.

In this particular case, the pic illustrates the Trope Namer, and trying to actually illustrate the trope, as I said earlier, would be very hard without a parody or lampshade. The suggestion does lampshade the trope, but IMO it's rather hamfisted...I much prefer the current pic.

edited 18th Nov '11 1:26:08 PM by Willbyr

I'm actually with Aquillion on this one: the Deus ex Machina trope is an Ass Pull where some sort of outside force resolves the plot. The current picture doesn't demonstrate that; it's just a guy on a crane with no indication that he's appearing out of nowhere to resolve the plot.

edited 18th Nov '11 1:52:26 PM by JapaneseTeeth

Reaction Image Repository

I like the suggestion. It's actually really good.

For the record, it was God-Mode Sue that had the other similar pic.

Also for the record, I don't see any reason to discourage starting new threads if you have a suggestion that you think is better. It's only a problem if you come in saying "Surely we can do better!" without bringing any specific replacements.

edited 18th Nov '11 5:47:40 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Still has, I believe.

For the record, I think a lampshade, however heavy-handed it might be, is better then a straight example that doesn't actually show the trope in action, so for the moment I'm inclined to support God-Man.

I like God Man.

Fight smart, not fair.

Why?

This is a wiki; it's meant to be constantly changing and subject to improvement. I feel you're making a serious mistake here (because the way we do renames has leaked into this process) — images are not a big deal, and changing an image isn't really a big deal unless there's enough of an argument over it to force it into a discussion to avert an edit war. Changing an image isn't substantially different from changing the quote at the top, or rewriting the lead paragraph, neither of which usually go to a forum.

Why do we have such a clunky process for this? The forum should only be used when something is contested; and users should always be encouraged to be bold and just try their changes first. Then, if someone objects, it should go to discussion rather than an edit war — but I don't feel that making image selection such a formalized process actually benefits anything. Wiki Magic applies to images, too — it's always better to allow users to edit things freely as long as they don't get into a dispute.

Trope names are the only exception, because there's a logical reason to want those to be extremely stable. There's no particularly reason, though, why we should care any more about the stability of a page's image than we would about (say) its lead paragraph or quote. Repeatedly and blatantly ignoring the results of discussions is obviously disruptive, but "we discussed this a year ago, that means you gotta put it through discussions again before you can make any changes" is rulescruft.

My understanding is that as a general rule, images that only illustrate the trope namer without having any real connection to the trope are discouraged, since they fail to serve any informative purpose and can sometimes lead to misuse.

edited 19th Nov '11 1:56:39 AM by Aquillion

It's discouraged because it's simply not necessary. A waste of time. A waste of forum space. Another discussion is unlikely to result in an image that's any better than the current one.

Usually.

In this case, you have a valid reason. Your image demonstrates the trope. Calm down.

I like the suggestion, but the last panel is already the page quote. Maybe that could be replaced? (That said, I don't have a replacement.)

I'm not crazy, I just don't give a darn!

@Willbyr: I think point #3 has an expiration date attached to it — sometimes the old image wasn't all that great, and was chosen only because it was the best they had at the time. If a user finds something better later on, being required to start an IP for it is almost a formality.

If we want a real mechanism to lock down the current page image against changes, we need a way to separate the page image from the rest of the article's Wikicode.

Alternatives

• a Trope Namer in progress (I can imagine adding some window dressing, like a speech ballon to the tune of "I shall solve your plot problems, mortals!")
• Comic strip◊ lampshading it
• Another Lampshade

edited 19th Nov '11 12:17:56 PM by Stratadrake

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

That's a valid point. What I was thinking of when I said that was the recent group opinion that we need to avoid that kind of thread because of the enormous backlog of threads.

For the last two suggestions, the Milky strip could work if we dropped the third panel. I like the second comic better, but we'd need to get permission since it's a single-panel cartoon.

edited 19th Nov '11 9:04:52 PM by Willbyr

The kind of thread we want to avoid is the one where someone wants to get rid of a current "Meh" image without suggesting a replacement.

I like the suggestion in the OP a lot, though. (Better than others.)

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Didn't see the OP, but even the first one I found is better than current; less clinical depiction of "descends suddenly upon the setting". We've got three or four choices so far ... crowner?

edited 19th Nov '11 10:48:55 PM by Stratadrake

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

If we do decide to use the god-man comic, we could just use the last panel.

In between Not Even Human and Not Quite Human

Eh, just the last panel would be Just A Face And A Caption material.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Even if its rejected(I have nothing against the proposed replacement) there is no reason not to put it on image links.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack

Clock is set.

God-Man works better than current one. The current one does not demonstrate the trope anyway really. It's just ancient mechanism used long time ago, a literal Deus Ex Machima, but it does not show what Deus Ex Machima is. God-man example shows what is, a Ass Pull to get plot fixed.

Agreed.

Supporting God-Man.

Wow, the current image is absolutely terrible. Supporting the replacement Aquillion suggested.

What is this "sleep" you speak of?

Is the God-Man pic the entire comic?