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How can a vanilla mortal stand up to an Insert Something Magical Here? ((Yes, phrased as written))

Come on, you know you're wondering this. In a world of wizards and Juggernauts and Wraiths and Nightkin and Orcs, how can an ordinary, mundane person compete?

Dedication.

Someone without magical powers has to push themselves harder than any wizard ever has to. In some ways, this works to their advantage; magicians and monsters grow used to being the big man on the block, and, consequentially, they are not forced to improve. A mortal in any competitive environment (from fighting to investigation to trans-continental ski-boxing) continually gets better, while supernaturals stagnate.

Brains.

A vanilla mortal's deadliness is directly proportional to how much prep time they have and how clever they are. As such, mortals make better tacticians, covert operatives, assassins, and specialists than they do instruments of brute force. This ties into the "dedication" bit, since a mortal needs to think constantly to survive, so they get much better at it than supernaturals.

Humility and ruthlessness.

Magicians get cocky, monsters get hungry, spirits get greedy- all supernaturals have an in-built fatal flaw that becomes nearly impossible to avoid. Mortals suffer no such illness. No degree of pride or tradition will prevent a mortal adventurer(/soldier/mercenary) from using every resource she can muster to her advantage. Where a werewolf trusts their instincts and beast-form, a mortal trusts guns with silver bullets. Where a sorceror is confident that they can blow out the windows of a building at a whim, mortals rig that building with explosive beforehand. Where a Daemon tries to make deals, a mortal will exchange grips with one hand and draw a knife with the other.

With these guidelines, Average Joe turns his weaknesses into strengths. Mortals have it hard in a world of magic, but they can and do turn the tables when it suits them.

Imposing a weakness of that manner on everything... is a no. No to me.

I'm okay with having a Badass Normal class (I just tried to write it) but not because the other classes have weakness labelled 'The Idiot Ball'.

That's Classic Fairytale Stuff, man. Everything has a fatal weakness, and the clever hero exploits it. Werewolves have silver, vampires have practically everything, Faeries can't lie or enter places uninvited, daemons can't do anything without permission- it goes on.

Now I'm going to have to side with Exe on this one everything has a weakness.

Other then the Werewolves, that isn't what you were talking about,

Magicians get cocky, monsters get hungry, spirits get greedy

Basically everyone holds the Idiot Ball but the Badass Normal, and that's not an inbuilt flaw I can accept.

edited 1st May '12 8:49:43 PM by God_of_Awesome

Again, Basic Fairy Tale Stuff.

Do demons want to make 'just enough deals to scrape by? No, man, they want ALL THE POWER. Is the vampire satisfied with just enough blood to survive? No, he wants a feast. Does someone who can blow things up with a thought prepare for the worst case scenario? Science, in this case,*

Sorry to double post but I don't want this added point missed:

In your write-up, the Badass Normal is no such thing at all. Everyone else has this weakness where they've suddenly turned into a stupid asshole and he's the only guy left standing with two brain cell rubbing together and that's why he's such a 'Badass'. Really, it devalues him.

Yes, I'm exaggerating a bit.

My write-up though had a guy specifically trained in the art of ass kicking not relying on anyone holding the Idiot Ball for him.

Idiot Ball =/= Kryptonite Factor and Logical Weakness.

Spira , God of will power / determination -

Spira Was an ordinary house spider, he lived in the house of an old mage. One day the old mage spotted the spider and swatted it a scroll, he went to grab something to dispose of the spider with but he had manged to crawl away to heal. The next week he found and smashed the spider again this time using a spellbook and again the spider went off and healed, finally he saw the spider and drove his enchanted blade through it but not before calling it "My most Worthy Opponent".

However this is not where the story end. For some strange reason, a reason beyond the tiny spider's brain and comprehension. He became a soul, a combination of his instincts and something more drove him to not fade into the abyss. For years he wandered without purpose or meaning, until Elena accidentally stumbled upon him. The first known gift arachnid she had ever encounter. She soon fixed this gifting the spider with her blessing turning him into an again living gift creature and also giving him intellect and consciousness. He was charged with guarding over a small forest beyond the old mage's home. He never held a grudge though, remembering the words that old mage said before driving the sword through him and holding them close to his heart.

A few more years passed by this time he had gathered a small amount of worshipers who gave him gifts and worshiped at him shrine, he gain fame among the gift spirits. Which unfortunate got the attention of a masked spirit. This masked spirit sought to increase it's ranks or power and sent their cultist to destroy his shrine and defile the body Elena had given him so that he be cast aside.

They tried to burn his shrine and impale his body to appease there master. While his shrine was beginning to burn and they had him pinned down ready to impale him. He called on all the power of his worshipers, the aether Elena gifted him but most importantly the very same will that allowed him to be soul in the first place, and willed all of the flames off of his shrine and onto the cultists. He freed himself from their grasp, and defeated the flaming cultist.

News of the his great feat spread more and more until finally, there was a shift in the aether. No creatures will was ever rumored to be so great and so powerful until this tiny spider began making webs in the metaphorical hearts and minds of people. And so he ascend to Godhood.

Worshipers of Spira, tend to be those who value determination and will-power. Those who have a goal and those who know when to push forward and when to hold back. They come from all walks of life, all races, and creeds. Paladins are common among his worshipers even if they serve another god as their main, due to most good paladins valuing strength of will and fettered conviction. All those who value willpower be it the will to live or the will to make sacrifices, would be wise to say a prayer in his name as he often times gives even the weakest of men a boost, when they show that initial spark of will.

His symbol is an iron cobweb, though the image of a cobweb is the more common. His temples tend to be built as a spiraling towers with high ceilings for spiders to live in.

I still prefer 'specifically trained in ass kicking' over 'haha you guys are dumb asses'. Because that implies I cannot play my mage as smart.

Smart? Yes. Humble? Not so much.

A person in a position of power will always, always overlook things. This is how governments are brought down and key figures killed.

Thing is, the Mage will never think as hard about his weaknesses as the guy trying to kill him.

edited 2nd May '12 3:04:49 AM by Exelixi

Do both of these things need to be mutually exclusive anyway?

"Their is a marked tendency for things with power to discount certain options" and "Their are mundane mortals specifically trained in ass kicking" two things that cannot coexist?

Something more powerful is something more powerful. Now, if you're talking about martial arts training. . . Yeah, that's what martial arts are for. However, a purely mundane soldier can only kick ass with sheer brute force if the bar isn't much higher than a purely mundane soldier- and, considering all the shit we already have, that ship is sailed. An Orc will never win a barekuckle boxing match with an Ogre. He kills that Ogre by being smarter than it.

ETA: Keep in mind that advanced martial arts are as much about the mind as they are the body. Finding a weakness and exploiting it. That can't happen if "everything has a weakness" is suddenly a non-option.

edited 2nd May '12 1:23:37 PM by Exelixi

Not just Martial Arts but being train in all kinds of 'Special Tactics'. Basically, covering everything you need to become Batman.

And how, exactly, does batman do his batman thing?

Ah, right.

Ah right what?

Batman wins by being a combination of the best con man on the planet and extremely resourceful.

You forgot being rich as anything.

That too.

And also helped along by being master martial artist and tactician.

And what do you think tacticians do? Same thing martial artists do, on a larger scale. Weakness, exploit, etc.

But to just say 'Every mortal w/o magic (And other powers) knows how to do that' when it's better to say 'This mortal was trained / has a particular inclination for using special tactics'.

I didn't say every mortal. I said This Is How The Mortals That Do It Do It.

Still, I don't see how they're mutually exclusive.

My 2 cents on this matter:

First, I thought we weren't going to worry about RPG issues, only campaign color? That we were letting individual GMs decide such things?

Second, even if we do tackle the issue: there's two ways to keep games balanced. One, make sure every class has equivalent abilities and power levels. This is the "D&D approach" as I call it.

The other is the "Batman approach" where each class has got his or her specialty cornered, so that you absolutely HAVE to use them for it. Eg. Batman is nothing in power next to Superman but Supes needs Batman's brains to resolve some crimes.

I'd much rather we went for approach one. IF we even have to that is.

edited 3rd May '12 7:04:02 PM by Sijo