Todd In The Shadows Thread

He actually has mentioned that one (and its subject) in passing, but I feel like "Brown Sugar" works for the same reason that a lot of very dark, nasty music works: The framing. What makes "Blurred Lines" or anything Chris Brown has unleashed upon the world of late with few exceptions unpleasant is that the creepy misogyny is framed as somehow OK or, at worst, a bit cheeky or sexy rather than something darker. What's more, it feels like it's done "out of character," or in a persona that is meant to be romantic or alluring in a vanilla "bad boy" way, which I would strongly contrast with someone like Danny Brown, who is very clearly acting out a character that is not meant to be emulated but doing so in an entertaining, often perversely flip way.

Also, I have no problem with retro soul and doo-wop revivalism. The problem is how boring and un-sexy a lot of this stuff can be, even when it's about sex outright.

So what about Stray Cat Blues (also by The Rolling Stones)? That song is about banging underage groupies.

Here's a link to the lyrics: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/rollingstones/straycatblues.html

I don't know how who in the hell thought this was a good idea to play on the Classic Hits station in my hometown during Mother's Day.

To be fair to "Stray Cat Blues", I'm pretty sure a lot of early rock stars were secretly pedophiles (and by secretly I mean they all wrote songs about banging jailbait because when you're rich you're above the law I guess). Doesn't make it any better, but...eh.

And the difference between a song like "Brown Sugar" and "Blurred Lines", the former is taking on a character role and is intended as essentially black comedy, whereas the latter is just kind of ignorant sleaze. Admittedly, the people who wrote "Blurred Lines" were likely in on the joke and probably intended it as just having some fun with the concept, but, well, a sexually aggressive guy in a club is a concept more likely to occur these days than a white slaveowner raping his black female slaves. It's a concept that is more likely to resonate with people because it's more likely to happen to them, and it makes them more uncomfortable as a result, whereas the "Brown Sugar" thing at this point is a part of history—a regrettable part of history, but one that isn't likely to happen anymore (well, not in the First World at least...).

David Bowie, Jimmy Page, and Steven Tyler all had sexual relations and dated minors. I'm not really holding it against them, considering it seemed to be more of the wild lifestyle of the 70s (and they aren't serial offenders), but you are indeed right about that.

To shift gears for a moment, I wonder if Todd will mention (at least as an honorable mention) in either of the year-end videos Kanye West and Paul Mc Cartney's "Only One". I feel like it was one of the more underrated songs put out last year, and was overshadowed by people being outraged by younger fans not knowing who Paul is.

I swear to Lennon and Harrison, if someone genuinely doesn't know who one of the greatest singer-songwriters and multi-instrumentalists of all time is, I'm sending them out on the long and winding road. I mean, I'm mostly ambivalent in regards to Kanye West (good rapper, big douchebag), but I like seeing collaborations between artists of different expertise. Kanye and Mc Cartney sounds like one of those matches that could actually work if they're both playing their A-game.

I should listen to that song, come to think of it.

I highly recommend it. It's a really heartfelt song, and it has surprisingly interesting artistic use of autotune in it (used to represent his lack of sureness and confidence, slowly dropping away more and more as his confidence builds throughout the song EDIT: though listening back to it now, not quite as much as I'd remembered), and Paul's understated keyboard work definitely helps the song a lot.

Here it is:

edited 11th Jan '16 6:38:03 PM by Odd1

Just listened to it. Though I personally could do without the autotune, it was a very good track. Paul Mc Cartney produced it as well, correct?

He and Mike Dean, yes.

I'm not sure what Kanye's singing without autotune is like (in recent years, at least), so I'm not sure how the track would've sounded without it. To be honest, it probably could've come off as even more raw and emotional without it, but hey, I'm happy with what we've got still.

"Dear Future Husband" not only had regressive 50's housewife bullshit, but also treated the husband like a whipping boy and tool that the wife would hold under ransom for the slightest hint of sex all around it was just a very ew song.

And yeah, while I do have a soft spot for doo-wop and Motown, it's basically a watered down version of the beat from Runaround Sue.

And on the topic of "Brown Sugar", this is a subject I've been thinking about a lot lately. For a song I have been listening to a lot lately is "Sex Type Thing" by Stone Temple Poilets (a song IIRC Todd compared "Blurred Lines" to in his review IIRC).

I really like the song, despite it being a song quite explicitly about rape from the point of view of the rapist themselves. But certainly, it's the framing that carries the song. The song is very angry, dangerous and just unpleasant sounding and the singing of the lyrics is just as forceful and nasty. Scott Weiland himself even admitted the song was not so much about sex as it was about control, violence and abuse of power.

And that's the ticket of difference between Thicke singing "I know you want it" and Weiland singing "I know you want what's on my mind", awareness and framing. In Thicke's case it's presented as goofy, "boys will be boys" club funtimes rather than creepy, possessive shit. In Weiland's case it sounds as unpleasant as actually being on the receiving end of that kinda phrase in Real Life.

edited 12th Jan '16 12:36:40 AM by PippingFool

He did an episode on it but copyright stuff won't let it be put on Youtube.

I don't think the lyrics of "Dear Future Husband" are in question here. I think the question is more along the lines of "Is there enough to support this song as a satire or some other form of social commentary?"

And personally, I'd say no. Closest thing I can think of is the music video clearly invoking a 50s aesthetic, though Poe's Law is hitting me hard there.

Then what about Under My Thumb by The Rolling Stones?

From what I've read, "Under My Thumb" also got some shit back when it first came out.

I should note that there's nothing wrong with liking a song and still finding the lyrics problematic. Case in point, and just to stop beating around the bush: "Every Breath You Take" by The Police. Loved as a love song back in its time, nowadays however most people acknowledge that it's skeevy as hell. Still a good song.

Of course, "Under My Thumb" and "Every Breath You Take" are both character pieces, and I will admit I didn't consider the idea of "Dear Future Husband" being one as well. However, I'm thinking back to the other songs Trainor's released, and I'm starting to realize she has a very bad track record in regards to lyrics. There's "Dear Future Husband", as noted, but there's also "All About That Bass", with the general message of "love your big ass because it raises more boners", and "Marvin Gaye", which had the unfortunate "like a dog without a bone" line.

......Now that I'm thinking about it, what big hits over the past couple of years were character pieces? Only one I can think of right now is "Drank" by Kendrick Lamar, and that mostly pertained to the chorus.

edited 12th Jan '16 7:37:54 AM by Watchtower

So basically it's like when Randy Newman makes a song called Rednecks that has the line "Keeping the nigger down" repeated over and over. It's from another perspective.

Honestly it's more about your skill as a songwriter in general and how well you as a performer can convey the intended meaning.

"Every Breath You Take" was never a romance song though. It was always about a skeevy, nasty, "sick little song" about a creeper.

I still don't know why people still think it's a romance song when it's been stated by Word of God themselves that it was always about a creepy, obsessive stalker. I guess by the rather soft and pillowy melody you could be lead to believe it's a romance song but I guess that's intentional Lyrical Dissonance invoking Poe's Law because so many romance songs take the characters POV in that song at face value and portray that shit straight.

edited 12th Jan '16 2:54:43 PM by PippingFool

Plus it's also Sting so why would you ever take his lyrics at face value

I mean, if he's talking about Augusto Pinochet's horrid government rule over Chile, then I'd take it at face value.

There's actually a YouTube video of "Every Breath You Take" in a minor key.

Listen to the lyrics, and realize that the Lyrical Dissonance has now become Lyrical Consonance.

Now imagine THIS being played at weddings everywhere.

Romantic.

edited 12th Jan '16 3:27:39 PM by BurntMario

I don't really hear the Lyrical Dissonance that everyone seems to hear in "Every Breath You Take". To me it has a somewhat dark and ominous sound. Those guitar arpeggios give an ominous vibe and Sting's delivery sounds pretty desperate. And yet people talk about it like it has the music of "I Don't Want to Miss a Thing". Obviously that minor key versions sounds more directly ominous, but the original doesn't exactly sound comforting.

Actually, for a more direct comparison, there's the P. Diddy remake "I'll Be Missing You". If the original sounded like that, I would understand the claims of Lyrical Dissonance.

I actually agree. The song sounds has always rather ominous and sinister rather than soft and romantic (hence why I said "you could make the case", rather than agreeing with it)

So what exactly did Todd hate about Take Me to Church by Hozier?

He just thought it sounded depressing like a lot of other 2014 hits, like "Habits (Stay High)," for instance.

That's it?

Nothing about how the lyrics are a critique of the Catholic Church and their stance on homosexuality?