I believe sarcasm is specifically ironic - could be mistaken about that.
Azor Ahai
I do think some separation of Deadpan Snarker and simple snarker would be a good idea, although some of the examples aren't specific, so it would be hard to do unless editors were familiar with them.
Like using A Song Of Ice And Fire as an example:
- Dolorous Edd of that series (like the main character of Tuf Voyaging by the same author) is a legitimate Deadpan Snarker example, one who doesn't speak in a sarcastic voice tone (since he's The Eeyore, his voice is generally morose * ), but he's really being snarky most of the time.
- Jaime Lannister and Tyrion Lannister are certainly snarky, but not at all deadpan. When characters don't realize they are being sarcastic, it's because they don't understand sarcasm.
edited 4th Sep '11 8:20:35 PM by Jordan
Hodor
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I tend to interpret snark to mean witty sarcasm, not necessarily specifically deadpan sarcasm.
Then again, I rarely see the word used outside this website.
"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
Webster seems to define snark identically to sarcasm. it doesn't elaborate further. Urban Dictionary has more to say on the matter. All of the highest rated definitions imply that snarky comments include negativity. Common words used are: snide, derogatory, mocking, malice, cruel, stabbing ...
Basically, "snark" differs from regular sarcasm by being a form of verbal attack. It's used to point out flaws and to belittle. In my experience with snark, this is often done in a lighthearted, possibly friendly manner, though. Snark isn't just a "sarcastic remark", it's a "cutting remark".
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Well, so far we`ve seen at least 3 different interpretations of what snark means, so at the very least it`s not that simple. Now, dictionary definitions are relatively more reliable, but still don`t necessarily line up with how words are in practice used.
"The Daily Show has to be right 100% of the time; FOX News only has to be right once." - Jon Stewart
I would endorse "cutting".
You would endorse cutting the snark trope altogether? or are you endorsing the definition that requires it to be a "cutting remark"?!
The latter, sorry - snark tends to be cutting wit. I support splitting, as I may have said before.
grimAuxiliatrix
Another problem may be that this is a character trope, and people, as stated on the first page, use it to include everyone who is ever snarky. The whole point of the Deadpan Snarker is that it's a character trait.
We can probably wait to deal with it, but I never know when I'm going to be around, so I thought I'd mention it as I thought of it.
Everyone Has An Important Job To Do
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Hurler of Swine
I advocate splitting the page, and adding a note about how it needs to be a character trait to be an example. Isolated bits of snarkiness is People Sit On Chairs.
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To be fair, though, sometimes isolated bits of snarkiness are used to portray said character trait.
Hurler of Swine
If it's a character trait, then it's going to come up multiple times, unless the work is very short/the character doesn't have enough screentime to get more than one chance at being snarky. And, if that is the case, then either we don't know enough about the character to really say, or it's not "isolated" because it's actually a large percentage of what we see of them (or both).
Serocco
Is the discussion about whether or not to rename Deadpan Snarker, split the animated snarkers (who aren't actually deadpan) into their own page, or rewrite the discussion to include some new guidelines, like Complete Monster?
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
I think at this point we should probably just do some cleanup, but I'm not sure how well that will work out since as a consistent character trait some familiarity with the series involved is required.
Combination of 2 and 3, I would say.
The Final ECW Champion
Yes rename, snark is one of those weird words that nerds love and take pride in for some reason. Like "badass", only thankfully not as overused or as problematic on this site yet. But yes, 90% of this is rooted in the phrase "snarker" and the fact Deadpan isn't common vocabulary if I'm not mistaken, it definitely is not where I'm from.
Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
I use deadpan a lot; it's "snark" that I don't hear much outside of 'nerdy' settings. And I agree that it is something of a "loaded" term in nerd circles, which could indeed be a source of problems with this page.
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
Doesn't help that "sarcasmer" as a word for "person who uses sarcasm" doesn't exist, nor does any other equivalent, save snarker.
My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
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Again, this is why I think it should be renamed to The Snarker.
Snark is almost always deadpan, hence the proliferation of this across the wiki. When someone is frothy with rage, is it even snark anymore? Or just blistering sarcasm?
Get a slant at this glossary of Pulp Detective terms. It rates. Pipe that?