DEATH BATTLE

Oh shit I forgot about that. Zamasu basically has an "Immune to your bullshit" clause against Kronika twice over.

Speaking of MK bosses though I want to see Goro.

Bleye knows Sabers.

Vs Machamp.

I hope you are ready for some Pokemon slaughter

Uni cat

Never bet against a fully evolved Pokemon.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 9th 2019 at 8:22:38 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

I was thinking they should pick Someone Else Named Goro but I like your idea better.

They don't take the Pokedex literally do they? They are obviously written by ten year olds.

Bleye knows Sabers.

Why wouldn't they? It's really the only bit of lore and statistical information we get for most Pokemon, even it loads of it makes no sense even in universe. They kind of have to take it seriously.

Speaking of which, here's a few Machamp tidbits.

But since that's probably Early-Installment Weirdness (it's Gen 1), here's a later one:

So that's a good estimate of its strength: able to bench press trucks. Then there's these two that recur through multiple later gens:

That said, last time they did Pokemon they completely threw away everything but gameplay (that is, natural movelist, stats and the abilities), including the Pokedex, but that was because all of them were on the same "plane," so to speak.

It was a Pokemon vs Pokemon battle, so they explicitly figured the whole thing out using in-game mathematics. Goro isn't a Pokemon (at least, I think he's not...) so he has no comparable math to match capabilities to. Which means they have to use lore.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 9th 2019 at 8:40:09 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

They already discussed Goro and Machamp in a Death Battle Cast, and they do not for as second entertain the idea that the pokedex is reliable. Given that thing is basically a wikipedia edited exclusively by 10 year olds, they shouldn't.

They do allow that Machamp can punch a thousand times, though, because its in Pokken.

Edited by qwigly on May 9th 2019 at 8:41:34 AM

Source?

Not that it matters either way. This is Death Battle. "Not reliable" doesn't mean "we'll make things up because we don't want to use the lore." At best, it means "we're not using these characters because we can't reconcile the information we have."

They certainly won't use a Pokemon if the only source of information is something they're unwilling to use. Or maybe they would. It's not like they haven't gone ahead with battles on shaky information before.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 9th 2019 at 8:44:53 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

The scientists in universe rely on it, even bringing it up in gen 7 bout how toxapex leaves corsola bits in its wake as it hunts.

Watch Symphogear

Yeah that's kinda what I'm talking about. Alakazam has an IQ of 5000 apparently, and Magcargo's skin is hotter than the surface of the sun.

I'm just saying everything would make a lot more sense in that world if all the pokedex entries really where filled out by hyper-excited children like the games sometimes imply.

Bleye knows Sabers.

To be fair, you use Machamp to push giant square rocks in Sun and Moon, and Pokken's Limit Break for him has him hit the opponent 1000 times in about 5 seconds, not the 2 seconds that the pokedex claims.

Is this another part of pony friendship? Telling each other what you learned all the time?

Do you seriously think there is no pokemon media outside of the core games? How many times has Machamp been on the anime? They can use feats in that.

One quoted was that Machamp knocked over a crane with a boulder.

You're half-right; I hate both Zamasu and Kronika and want to see them both suffer.

(I also care more about theming then power levels; as people have said, this would make a better DBX/OMM than a DB.)

They also have rules about not using adaptation feats or information if they fall into contrast with feats or information from the source material.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 9th 2019 at 8:48:20 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

According to the creator of Pokemon, the source material to draw from is the manga, not the games. Otherwise, Pokemon can do 4 things, period, and need to wait their turn.

The anime's fair game for drawing feats for Pokemon. For example, I don't think any of the games mentioned that Mewtwo has the ability to wipe people's minds, yet that was one of the deciding factors for their fight against Shadow.

Which creator of Pokemon? And in what regard? Source?

Also, given that the plot of the manga is completely incompatible with the plot of the games, it's unlikely that that's meant to be the "true" version.

Also, also, nobody who works at Gamefreak has any input on Death Battle's process, and the Death Battle team is unlikely to cherry pick "the manga adaptation version" as the exact thing they're adapting when using a video game character.

That's because it doesn't contradict any feats or information from the source material. Telepathy, hypnosis and mind erasure/consumption are all things in the Pokemon games.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 9th 2019 at 9:05:03 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

I know Shang Tsung was already used on Akuma, but I think someone that fits better to fight against him would be someone like Beast Boy, who also is famous for shapeshifting in order to fight.

It's been 3000 years…

Come to think of it, does Mokujin have any feats?

Conceptually he's an appropriate matchup for Shang Tsung.

Edited by NesClassic on May 9th 2019 at 9:07:23 AM

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia

Speaking of Akuma, is Iron Fists soul immortal?

Like could Danny tank Akuma's soul destroyer Hatsui no Sado attack?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Satoshi Tajiri, in the regard that it most resembles the world he was trying to convey, a quote off of the Vizkids site and found on every volume of the Pokemon Adventures manga.

And yes, nobody at Gamefreak has any input on Death Battle. So we should go with what the creators of Death Battle have to say about the seriousness of the Pokedex. And to paraphrase their discussion on the matter, fuck the Pokedex.

Edited by qwigly on May 9th 2019 at 9:12:49 AM

Ignoring the Pokedex makes it less fun.

It depends on who you set them up against.

If you're setting them against combatants with really slapdash powersets too, it could be fun just to see whose hax is more insane.

If you want a legitimate martial fight out of it though I feel the Pokedex just becomes an unworkable bastion of insanity.

Bleye knows Sabers.

Yeah, that doesn't sound at all like "the manga is the real canon." It sounds like "the manga more closely resembles I originally envisioned."

And... yeah. You never actually provided a source, so I tracked down the quote myself, and that's what it really does simply say: "this is the comic that most resembles the world I was trying to convey." That's all.

Which is vague, and no website I could find has any context, which is problematic for your case given that you're trying to creatively interpret it as "Tajiri never considered the games as canon, and the manga is the only true interpretation of the characters, the Pokemon lore, or anything within it the franchise."

As someone who is actually familiar with the Pokemon Adventures manga, the first thing that comes to mind as different is the fact that it's Darker and Edgier. But even that is probably going too far, since the simplest thing to take into account is that Tajiri was literally the initial designer of the Pokemon world. Between himself and Sugimori, the initial designs between them initially encompassed the way people looked, many of the original 150's looks, the way the world and its architecture looked, etc. So when you take into account the fact that Adventures takes far more cues from that initial art than any other Pokemon medium, it's a little more logical to think that when he's talking about how the manga "most resembles the world he was trying to convey" he's being literal. Especially since he uses the word "convey," and not something less visual like "create."

That is, five will get you ten what he's talking about is the art and design of the setting, and that taking from it that he was outright disowning the games is probably a big misunderstanding of what he was actually trying to say.

Though this was all humoring the idea that any of this would mean Death Battle shouldn't use the games as primary reference in the first place.

Well, "fuck the Pokedex" is a bit different to what you claimed they said initially (you didn't provide a source on that, either). What you said was that they didn't think it was reliable. And as I said before:

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 10th 2019 at 12:55:40 PM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

"That said, last time they did Pokemon they completely threw away everything but gameplay (that is, natural movelist, stats and the abilities), including the Pokedex, but that was because all of them were on the same "plane," so to speak.

It was a Pokemon vs Pokemon battle, so they explicitly figured the whole thing out using in-game mathematics".

There have been three different pokemon battles since the Pokemon Battle Royale. Pokemon VS Digimon, Mewtwo vs Shadow and finally Lucario vs Renamon. That said, the last time they did use Pokemon, they generally only used Pokedex entries if it was backed up by actual feats. For example, the entry about being able to see invisible beings through Aura is backed up by a Lucario dodging logs while blindfolded. Although they did use Magmar's pokedex entries for his temperature.

By the way, the source you're looking for is the death battle cast episode "Another Pony... Really?" where the community death battle was Goro VS Machamp. However, Ben himself does use pokedex entries to justify why Machamp should win so it's not like they're a taboo that absolutely won't be used. Their general stance on pokedex entires (at least to me) is that if there are multiple entries saying the same thing (for example the entry for Machamp's 1,000 punches is in three different regions Fire Red, Diamond and X), it's a lot more credible because it's not just the same person putting this forward. But if it's just one, it's not especially considering the pokedex entries are "possibly written by 10 year old kids".

In a way, they could get away with using Magmar's pokedex entry cause it's not like Renamon had any fire attacks that they needed to make sure "Wait is it really that hot?"

Is this another part of pony friendship? Telling each other what you learned all the time?