DEATH BATTLE

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard about Earthbound that doesn't include skeletons.

Edited by JRads47 on Apr 11th 2019 at 10:31:52 AM

I wonder if we'll see a Walugi-Bandana Dee DBX.

For the sake of argument (well, not really, since I don't disagree), there is precedent for Death Battle giving the fight to a fighter who literally only had one very specific sequence of events which let to victory: Ryu vs Scorpion.

To be fair, when you fight the humans that are under Giygas's influence, they "turn back to normal".

Ryu lost that fight.

That's what I said, yeah.

Those cops in Earthbound had it coming.

Scorpion had thousands of ways to kill Ryu, and Ryu only had one way to end Scorpion.

The vegetables and lamps that you fight in Earthbound are dubiously alive

They’re animated by a vague psychic field covering the whole planet

Not really. As they outline their powers in the opening, they make it pretty clear that Ryu far outstrips Scorpion in power normally. The justification for Scorpion's win comes from the information they give in the wrap up (from Shaolin Monks of all things), that "Scorpion gets stronger the more he's in the Netherrealm" (at a rate they don't quantify or gauge in any way, to boot) - and as such, the win comes from him eventually becoming strong enough that Ryu can't defeat him.

Which makes it the only Death Battle where the sequence of events in the fight animation is pretty much exactly how the fight needs to go in order for Scorpion to win:

• Ryu doesn't go all out in the beginning, nor use any of his trump cards or powerful techniques at the start of the fight, otherwise Scorpion loses.
• Scorpion, however, does use his trump card at the very beginning and immediately or almost immediately takes the fight to the Netherrealm.
• Ryu continues to pace the fight and doesn't use any of his most powerful attacks, for long enough that Scorpion begins to power up, otherwise Scorpion loses.
• Ryu only taps into either the Power of Nothingness or the Satsui no Hadou once Scorpion becomes powerful enough to put him on the ropes. At that point he cannot sustain either state became he is too tired / they drain too much energy to keep them up (notably, this is poorly researched. Ryu's not a Saiyan: his states don't actually work that way).
• As such, fully powered up while Ryu is weakened, Scorpion is now strong enough to tank attacks from Ryu that would have killed him otherwise, and so can easily kill him. Scorpion wins.

It's really tenuously set up, but with the justification they gave that's the only way it really works - especially the part about Ryu not ending the fight before Scorpion can get the gradual powerup he needs to not lose it.

It's one of Death Battle's weakest fights for that reason (not even getting into the fact that the Scorpion justification is from a single aside comment from a canon game, and Ryu's ability are poorly researched), hence my using it for what amounts to a joke.

I'm pretty sure if they did the fight with the level of scrutiny they give the fights nowadays, it would have gone the other way the same way Sonic vs Mario did. Granted, SFV has come out since then and gave Ryu a noticeable buff as well, but even without that.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 11th 2019 at 8:29:18 AM

Did you miss the part where Scorpion is already dead, and none of Ryus attacks were gonna do anything? Ryu could have busted out his most powerful attack as an opener, it would be meaningless. Ryu literally had one and only one way to defeat Scorpion, the Raging Demon. They said that explicitly in the fight, and then pointed out why it likely wouldn't work. They then outlined all the easy ways that Scorpion could win at any time - like by just teleporting Ryu into lava.

Ryu goes Power of Nothingness instantly in the fight, nothing changes. Scorpion is still an undead skeleton who drags Ryu to hell and kills him there.

If they did it now, yeah, it would be different, cause Scorpions chief advantage, that he is dead, is gone now.

Edited by qwigly on Apr 11th 2019 at 8:35:33 AM

I’m pretty sure Scorpion is not invincible & thus can be taken out.

Scorpion is capable of dying, hence his role as a combatant in the game Mortal Kombat, where death or the risk of death - even for the gods - is an important aspect of the series.

To be precise, canonically Scorpion can die and is simply regenerated back in the Netherrealm later - that was an important aspect of Scorpion's character for a good while: that he was an antagonist who could die and be killed, but would eventually come back again even so.

But the same thing happens to Raiden (albeit not in Netherrealm), who is still treated as if being killed by Thor is the end of the fight in Death Battle.

I don't recall Death Battle actually saying that Scorpion is unkillable at any point during that video anyway, and it's not likely that they actually believed it because being immortal and unkillable would have invalidated him from Death Battle in the first place. That's one of their core rules, and the only time I remember them breaking it is with Ganondorf.

And if they did believe Scorpion was invincible, then - again - that's them doing poor research.

Which would have required he teleport them to the Netherrealm first, which is - again - part of the exact sequence of events I noted - particularly the most important part: that Ryu doesn't finish the fight before Scorpion attempts to do so.

It, at the onset, requires that Scorpion pulls out his trump card at the same time Ryu chooses not to. Because if Ryu doesn't hold back, Scorpion loses.

Compare the recent fight against Jiraya vs Roshi, where Jiraya has several techniques that could end the fight definitively, but the gap between Roshi and himself means that they're just humoring the idea that he could have the opportunity to execute them.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 11th 2019 at 8:41:19 AM

In the canon, no, he doesnt, he just doesn't die. Revenants and Gods work by different rules.

As for saying they wouldnt do it if he couldnt die, he did have a way to die, the Raging Demon. It didn't work.

Edited by qwigly on Apr 11th 2019 at 8:47:14 AM

Scorpion dying and resurrecting constantly is far more documented in MK's history than Raiden's (Raiden having only resurrected the once, iirc), so no. They don't. Scorpion's regen is quicker, and Raiden's can have some wonky Dr. Who-esque personality effects iirc, but the basic principle is the same.

Seriously, Scorpion dying and then returning after death in the Netherrealm has been part of MK lore for decades. It features prominently in several games and half the character's history. You going "no it isn't" is rebuffed by the fact that yes, it demonstrably is.

Anyone who told you that he's incapable of death doesn't actually know what they're talking about. Do some research.

Actually no, what they said was that it was an instant kill, not that it was the only way to kill him. You misheard them.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 11th 2019 at 8:54:19 AM

And I suppose you think the bit about power alone not being enough to kill him was just Ben having a stroke in the recording booth that they left in?

Well its not like its unknown for DB to mess up its research.

Wasn't this also an old battle?

That's how they justify it - remember that it hinges on Scorpion gradually strengthen in the Netherrealm. They decide that Scorpion after buff is enough to tank Ryu's power. But that requires Ryu to let Scorpion buff in the first place.

Hence the sequence being the only way he can win.

Yeah. Like I said, they probably wouldn't have come to that conclusion nowadays. Ryu vs Jin is a good example, given that I doubt Scorpion could beat Jin either.

I remember the weirdest thing about that fight, though, was the way they themselves spell out the power scaling in the intros, explaining in depth how the scaling in SF is way higher than it seems, and the scaling in MK was (at the time) way lower than it looked. I remember walking into the fight expecting Scorpion to win, walking out of the intros having changed my mind, and then being baffled at the justification for something that I was expecting in the first place - since it didn't even match up with their analysis.

It really is a fight where they hinged the decision on a really removed, really vague, unquantified assumption. On the other hand, I want to say they wouldn't do that now, but these are the same guys who decided Superman has literally infinite strength.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Apr 11th 2019 at 9:15:32 AM

Even the one way they give Ryu to win (with the raging demon.) they say wouldn’t work because... Ryu barely uses it and would probably have trouble landing it, especially with Scorpions teleporting. Because apparently using combos or stunning the enemy first is something Ryu would never do. Like’s been said, this wasn’t a very well done fight. Probably why they gave Ryu a second chance with Jin.

Because today is April 11th, 2019 a date of no actual significance to me personally, I'm going to posit that my favorite Death Battle thus far is still Rangers vs Voltron, ironic given how I don't like either of those franchises.

Top 5:

• Rangers vs Voltron - also of note the intro to this fight is my primary evidence that the whole "fight logo restricts the animation" thing as bull. The Megazord took up most of the frame here and the animation is just as dynamically fluid as any other battle. My hypothetical graphic design degree is never wrong.
• Goku vs Superman: Round 2 - you never ever get to see Superman get into a Punch Duel with people, and the scene of him punching Goku in his God Form through the sky was a loving nod to Man of Steel.
• Sora vs Pit - I like this mainly because my 3rd favorite video game character won. And some of the most gorgeous spritework Death Battle has ever put out.
• Wolverine vs Raiden - while I detest the outcome, the animation was excellent.
• Joker vs Sweet Tooth - solely because of that shot where Joker hops into Sweet Tooth's ice cream truck while said truck is moving at like 80 miles an hour

Edited by Soble on Apr 12th 2019 at 6:51:51 AM

It was the inspiration for Undertale, which should tell you something.

PK Rockin' hasn't appeared in the Smash games, I don't think. They instead give Ness moves that he doesn't actually have in the games, like Paula's PK Fire or Poo's PK Starstorm. Rockin' is Ness's primary attack "spell"; a board-wiping attack that hits all enemies for massive damage.

It's also next to impossible to visualize what it's actually supposed to be, because it's completely undescriptive. At the start of the game, you're asked what your favorite thing is, and that thing becomes the name of Ness's uber-attack. The default is "Rocking" but there's a six-letter cap so it comes out as "Rockin".

Due to PK Rockin' being completely nondescriptive, it would be difficult to try and parse out for a serious cinematic Death Battle. But a fight with Sans would have to take place exclusively within the realm of RPG turn-based battle mechanics, so the fact that it's an inescapable fieldwipe is all that really matters.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 12th 2019 at 8:13:04 AM

Any ideas for who could take on Preston from Equilibrium?

The Gun Kata guy?

Huh, I dunno. Who else dance-fights with guns?

Neo from the Matrix?

EDIT: I suddenly want a Keanu Reeves battle royale. You got Preston and Neo and Constantine and John Wick all mixing it up. And then they all lose. 'Cause after he won, Ted Logan went back in time and set up all the wacky coincidences that would defeat the others.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 12th 2019 at 11:56:44 AM

What’s her face from Grenadier

Preston was played by Christian Bale not Keanu Reeves.