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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
A real bad hombre
Yeah, we're definitely veering a little off-topic here.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
A procrastination in of itself
I’d note that there’s a difference between asking for a single person’s credentials and asking for the credentials of what’s supposed to be a political movement pushing for global change.
An individual being unable to act can have many reasons, but when an entire apparent movement is failing to get anything good done at all there aren’t many explanations beyond that movement not being very smart.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Oh, bother.
So your preferred option is to make all of humanity into Mentats?
But I guess we're going off-topic.
Disgusted, but not surprised
This. So much. Not to mention that if your goal is "more progressive legislation" and you vote Democrat, well, congratulations, you've made a step towards that. Even if you do nothing else, you've still made that step.
Conversely, if your goal is "overturn capitalism" and your solution is "vote Green" you are accomplishing nothing.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Labor automation is a major political topic these days, and what I'm talking about is essentially the logical conclusion of that technological trend.
edited 13th Dec '17 10:09:28 PM by CaptainCapsase
Figure of Hourai
More general politics than US politics though.
Avatar Source
True enough, though the entire discussion about socialism and the feasibility of non-capitalist/non-market economic systems was also not really pertinent to US politics on that token.
edited 13th Dec '17 10:12:14 PM by CaptainCapsase
A procrastination in of itself
Capsase take a moment and step back, how often have off topic rambles involving you includes the phrase “looking at the logical conclusion” being posted by you?
You tend to get lost in big picture stuff, a lot, this is one of those times.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
A real bad hombre
To be totally fair, if your goal is "abolish capitalism" then I'm not sure what you could really do to help that along. I think it'd be a terrible idea, but I can't think of a viable political path forward for someone on the leftmost edges of the political sphere at the moment.
I do think the general lack of viable choices are an issue here, even though I feel the Democrats generally suit me just fine.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
Yeah... this has gone way off-topic.
Perhaps so. But helping to ensure Trump's election by voting Green is probably the single most counterproductive thing a person could do. Not to mention that even if the Greens won, they'd be notably worse than the Democrats on every issue liberals/progressives/leftists are supposed to care about.
edited 13th Dec '17 10:16:11 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
A procrastination in of itself
X3 You vote for the most anti-capitalist candidate on the ballot that has a chance of winning, that will often mean voting for a capitalist in the early stages, you slowly drag the ovoton window leftwards until the likes of Bernie Sanders is your far right candidate.
Thing is you have to be willing to take small steps and not want one giant instant win.
edited 13th Dec '17 10:18:05 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Oh, bother.
x4 One thing's for certain: voting for the Green Party certainly won't help abolish capitalism or corporations. Heck, voting for the Green Party in the USA won't accomplish anything. The USA Green Party is less an actual political party and more vainglorious political theatre.
edited 13th Dec '17 10:18:31 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised
A real bad hombre
The Green Party of the US are a band of lunatics I have nothing but contempt for, and climate change is my #1 dealbreaker issue. Seriously, fuck them.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -Thomas Edison
Marx predicted capitalism will destroy itself and many anti-capitalists share his theory. I was watching a speech from Chris Hedges earlier where he predicted the fall of the American Empire within a decade or two.
So...what you can do for the revolution is try to save as many people along the way as the machine inevitably collapses under its own contradictions and failures. I believe trying to tape everything together as it falls apart is also part of Marx's theory. Social Democracy is how the system tries to maintain order but it's a stop-gap measure. So I guess it's not un-Marxist to support various reforms because, in the end, those reforms mean nothing.
Of course, I'm not a Marxist and the fact the Anarchists I know voted for Bernie is baffling to me. But I guess the underlying idea is to help people so the philosophical or political particulars don't matter.
Shall we place some money on that proposition? I always wanted to like Hedges—and watching him slap around New Atheists like Hitchens and Harris remains a fond memory—but he's frankly out of his depth when it comes to predicting the future or for that matter identifying differences between the political parties.
As I said the other day I believe in the Proletarian Revolution even less than I believe in the Second Coming of Christ. America might lose any shred of dignity or respectability and be the laughing stock of the world in a decade but I don't predict Chinese supremacy or new world order of regional powers, mega-corporations and whatever.
But the enthusiastic sentiment on his part is appreciated which is why I watched the speech. I like to be inspired - I suspect most people do - and that is most easily accomplished through grand visions.
edited 13th Dec '17 10:39:52 PM by Nikkolas
Grand visions are all well and good, but if there's no way to put it into practice it doesn't mean much. And in Hedges' case it's all warped by his inability to tell the difference between his actual enemies and those who simply aren't as radical as he is.
I can't be inspired by someone with no plan. And hedges is very much devoid of a plan.
edited 13th Dec '17 10:45:20 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Oh, bother.
Speaking of Hedges:
One Rationalwiki contributor's attempt to translate some of Hedge's writing into simple English.
Essay:Death to - uh, of the Liberal Class
If you're not a fan of Hedges (and maybe even if you are) it's pretty funny.
Disgusted, but not surprised
And fairly offtopic. General economic or politics discussion is not on topic here.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Oh, bother.
So NBC's Chuck Todd apparently believes in the Blue Wave too due to the Alabama election and blames it on Trump.
Alabama results show that a 2018 wave is building
But if you thought Moore’s flaws — and the allegations against him — were the only reason why Republicans lost in Alabama, you haven’t been paying attention to 2017. The seven major races this year have underscored that Democratic voters are fired up, that Republican ones aren’t and that Trump is unpopular, even in red states.
The article goes on to list all of the other elections in which Democratic candidates overperformed, before pointing out Trump's own relatively low approval rating (48%) in Alabama.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Trump is surely putting his "I am never wrong and every problem is someone else's fault" on display here.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Oh, bother.
I don't think I've ever seen a real life public figure (or anyone, really) who embodied Never My Fault quite as well as Trump. I doubt this man has ever taken responsibility for anything bad in his life.
edited 14th Dec '17 2:01:12 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
Hedges: An American complaining about the existence of Americans slightly less left than him seems pretty relevant to American politics.
Especially when the prose is more purple than the garbage churned here.
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
If you think that criticizing crazy people who are nonetheless alive and actively holding their political views is off-topic Capsase, I'm really not sure how discussing a sci-fi future is on topic.