The General US Politics Thread

Excellent, this seems like something that could very easily blow up in their face.

Tactical, you are very quick to declare "it's all over" over literally anything. For one thing, for all that we "know" that Kushner was talking to the Russians, we have no fucking evidence. Evidence is something that takes time to gather and present. And, in the end, as frustrating as it might be to us here, we have to consider the possibility that there might not be conclusive evidence. "Knowing" something is true has never been the same thing as being able to prove it. We have to remember that.

As for Booker's statements, he's probably just calling for caution on the issue, knowing that we need proof before anything can be done. The investigation into Nixon took fourteen months. It didn't happen immediately that all the proof was out there and in the news. That shit took time. If there's anything to prove here, that is also going to take time.

When it comes to security clearances, you don't need to "know" anything. If there are hints that the person in question could be influenced by a third party, this is more than enough. YOU have too proof that you are squeaky clean. So if the security clearances doesn't get revoked it shines a really bad light on the people in the White House.

Exactly this, I don't think that saying that ended Cory Booker's 2020 hopes but it was wrong. Having such connections with Russia (or any other nation but especially Russia) is unacceptable.

http://www.politico.eu/article/macron-says-long-trump-handshake-not-innocent/

Re Jared Kushner's security clearance. It's all about politics. If you go after someone and fail, then every investigation you try to initiate after that is handicapped as well, often to the point that no further investigations can be conducted. If they tried to take his security clearance away and then failed to prove his malfeasance, the Republicans would use that to cry "persecution" every time the Dems wanted to investigate someone.

As Deepthroat explained to Woodward, when going after a conspiracy the expert starts and the periphery and slowly works his way in.

You're telling me something that I'm acutely aware of...why?

Booker already had an uphill battle because of that pharmaceutical vote x amount of months ago (completely undeserved I might add, but it is what it is) and on top of that he has what it appears (and it could easily be spun as such) defending Kushner. Is he? No, he isn't. But the reality of politics, as much as we hate it, is that perception matters. As much as I despise the super left-wing of the party, they're still part of our big tent, and as such, deserve some say in matters at the table.

For better or for worse, there's a good chunk of the Democratic base that doesn't want ANYONE defending Trump, anyone associated with him, for no legitimate reason at all, and this most definitely wasn't one of them, considering how shady Kushner is himself, let alone adding all the Russia allegations on top of it.

Will people forget about this in a week? Well...maybe, maybe not (people still gave Hillary shit for a comment she said in the early 90s), but the fact of the matter is, he said something in which he had no good reason to.

edited 28th May '17 7:17:38 PM by TacticalFox88

in a way that's what happened to Clinton. Granted she couldn't get elected but she was never properly charged either and every subsequent "but her emails..." or "Bengazi" just became sadder.

edited 28th May '17 7:15:44 PM by sgamer82

That and a First Lady to a past democratic administration and former Secretary of State from the outgoing administration can't really be anything other than a status quo candidate in the public conscious no matter how hard they want to sell themselves as something else, which is pretty much fatal in a change election.

Didn't Booker say a while back that he's not actually planning to run for President in 2020?

He did. But so do a lot of other people.

He was probably planning for 2024 when Hillary left office, and her losing took a lot of winds out of his sails.

In any case, I don't know who's going to win in 2020, but one things for sure, the 2020 Dem Primary is going to be a clustefuck of epic proportions.

edited 28th May '17 9:02:42 PM by TacticalFox88

I'm dreading that primary season, if only because I'm quite a bit more centrist than most of my close friends.

I just don't talk about politics with people whom I see on a regular basis.

Someone is signalling SOS in Morse from inside the White House for some reason.

Some intern getting bored?

I may be a centrist but I will never vote Republican as long as they continue to be bigots and climate change deniers

I'm a conservative in certain respects, but I'm not voting Republican until the unlikely event that they pull their collective heads out of their collective asses. Which includes getting rid of the bigotry, the nativism, the authoritarianism, and the general putting ideology over reality.

edited 28th May '17 9:13:09 PM by M84

Yeah....pretty much exactly that.

i won't vote for them until they quit it with the bigotry, the xenophobia, the fear-mongering, the fundamentalism, the nationalism, the total disregard for the welfare of the Earth, and the inability to think further forward than the immediate future.

(Really just want a party that really does stand for smaller government, economic conservatism, and maybe a slightly more hawkish foreign policy if I ever felt we needed any of that without the bullshit)

edited 28th May '17 9:22:14 PM by LinkToTheFuture

There are a number of democrats who stand for such things, Bill Clinton stood for such things for a long time and many within the Democrats have followed in his footsteps. Sure the party platform doesn't always cover purely such things, but if you belive in converative values there are conservative democrats that you can back in primaries, you'll find plenty of fellow conservatives in this thread.

Antifa groups plan to begin protesting against two statues of Sam Houston, one in Houston and one in Huntsville, and a State Park named after him due to him owning slaves.

This is despite the fact Houston was against expanding slavers rights as a US Senator, and was ousted as governor when he rebelled against the Texas Legislature after they voted to join the Confederacy.

Also, they would need to protest the name of the city of Houston as it was named after the guy as well.

Again, there is no danger in removing the security clearance. When it comes to this, they don't have to proof that Kushner did anything, so no, it wouldn't put them into a situation in which they have to deliver NOW. Kushner is the one who has to proof that all his contacts and the so called backchannel was anything but innocent. Just like Obama didn't need actual proof in order to fire Flynn. Knowing about him lobbying for other countries was more than enough.

In my ideal world, all the political parties would be centrist and moderate enough that anyone could feel comfortable voting for either one and whoever wins would largely be based on which political ideology would be better for the country at the time.

In my ideal world, I wouldn't vote for parties at all, but for actual programs...like, I get the list of stuff which needs to get changed in the country along with possible curses of actions and then I can say "I really want this, I can get behind that, I don't care about this, but I am really, really against this notion".

@tclittle

Wow, antifa groups can be really stupid. They really could not find a more deserving target?

I personally feel that taking away everything I find appalling about the Republican party would result in there being nothing at all left.

I've never been sold on "small government" as anything but a way to make life worse for people who need help. I mean, look at what's going on in Oklahoma. Withering away at the governmental budget until it's a vestigial organ just hurts people in bad positions, while leaving those who are well-off without any problems to worry about.

Among everyone in the Republican Party who are the Evangelical sort that believe in the End Times, who is the worse of the bunch?