The General US Politics Thread

Maybe it is. Its just that it has been associated with Trump's America First policy the past few years.

And the Dutch are admittedly a bit odd about their national feelings. They'd rather downplay them than put them on display. Even something as benign as a national museum is viewed with scepticism or disinterest.

We are basically the polar opposite of flag waving nationalists. Except on Kings Day, or during the World Cup. Then suddenly everyone remembers what country they live in.

There is, and has been for years, some state and regional branding in the US for agricultural products, E.G, "Massachussetts grown and fresher!", etc.

As far as I'm aware that's not usually a political item, though.

Edited by PointMaid on Jul 12th 2020 at 12:52:28 PM

It's interesting, because the sentiment is somewhat founded depending on the product. For some bizarre reason I find myself watching a lot of videos on power tools and the like by one guy who goes out of his way to do accurate customer reviews. There tends to be a correlation between the location of manufacture and quality; the cheaper Chinese-made equipment tends to have less durability or perform worse, whilst the US stuff or (depending on the specific tool being tested) Swiss/German manufacture tend to do better. But that could just be premium cost at play.

Makes perfect sense with agricultural produce.

Edited by RainehDaze on Jul 12th 2020 at 5:52:15 PM

NPR has some elaboration based on Biden's speech introducing the plan.

That last bit about manufacturing "vital medical equipment and pharmaceuticals" is apparently part of another plan as well, where the US and its allies are able to produce/store vital equipment not just for themselves, but be able to act as rapid deployment fail safes for each other. In case one of us isn't able to supply ventilators or drugs or other critical equipment to our citizenry the rest of the allies will already have plans to coordinate emergency supply deliveries.

Urge to make Jo Jo reference rising

Imo it's not a bad idea for the US, or indeed any country, to get better local manufacture. The entire world is so reliant on cheap stuff from China and India, it's just not healthy.

I agree, a focus on buying green and sustainable is a good thing. I don't think that slogan of "buy American" really conveys that well, though.

No it absolutely does, it's about developing American industry.

Ergo, "Buy American" makes perfect sense as a slogan.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 12th 2020 at 10:15:10 AM

But as that post mentions, it is about more than local manufacturing, it is about developing green technologies and more sustainable production. I don't think just Buy American covers that idea.

Speaking of slogans, does Biden have one already? I don't think I've heard a Yes We Can equivalent yet.

And yet all of that is related to and falls under the idea of buying American. It's fine for a slogan.

Just to comment on an aspect of the "should Trump be psychoanalyzed" debate which hasn't been brought up: as a person who has to deal with mental health issues myself, I think it's important to reiterate how much it matters to have those issues recognized, lent credence, and addressed by whatever means are appropriate to your situation (therapy, medication, etc.). SO many people (myself included) have had to deal with people refusing to believe we even have a real issue rather than simply being "dumb", "lazy", "not trying hard enough", and so on, let alone trying to find out what causes the issues or how to treat them. To have a real analysis and diagnosis, to know "yes, there really is something wrong with me, it's not all just in my head" is immensely reassuring in and of itself, not to mention being an essential step before any treatment can be considered.

Obviously that isn't going to matter to a malignant narcissist, especially one like Trump, but I bring it up for a different reason: ever since Trump was elected, practically everyone in his administration, as well as right-wing media (specifically Fox "News") and a lot of his supporters and followers, have been running an endless gaslighting campaign, insisting truth and reality aren't what the rest of us are seeing and experiencing. While I don't know how many people have genuinely been on the verge of breaking down thanks to this, I think it's safe to say that it's likely a huge relief to have someone with authority and knowledge come along and say "Yes, this is actually happening, no you haven't been imagining things or being misled by partisanship/bias".

So while diagnosing Trump won't matter in the long run, having actual psychologists (and his own psychiatrist niece) tell the rest of us that we were right to think this of him based on our witnessing him for the last 3-4 years is, I bet, very reassuring for a lot of people—and not just hardcore political junkies or the Democratic base. Even if we can't prove to those arrayed against us that various things have actually happened/been perpetrated by this administration, it's nice to have something where you can know your view of reality does have a basis in fact. It may also make it easier to stay focused and determined to GOTV and defeat him this fall, as well as to trust your conclusions when anticipating what he'll do next/how he'll react, as Fighteer said.

Just my two cents.

Agreed, though I think Trump is far beyond help by now. I also don't think it will matter much electorally. Whatever effects arise from his mental issues have been front and centre for years, perhaps even longer (I wasn't exactly a Trump follower before he became president).

What a difference with previous presidents with mental issues, whose foibles were carefully kept secret from the wider public.

I used to work for a manufacturer of agricultural machinery, and they made a big deal about their stuff being assembled in the U.S.

Assembled, mind you. The parts were manufactured in China and India, but they were shipped to the U.S. and assembled into the machinery being sold here in the States. And the company played up the verbage surrounding that in order to appeal to the "REAL 'MURICAN MADE!" crowd.

Right. Whether or not "Buy American" or "Made in the USA" are inherently nationalistic slogans, they obscure a complex issue in slogans meant to appeal to patriotism and national pride, so they are nationalistic in effect if not intent.

These days, nearly every supply chain is international to some extent, and that is fine. We should be working to dissolve borders and increase interconnectedness between nations, not strengthen them and dismantle global trade.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 12th 2020 at 2:10:49 PM

Except from an environmental perspective, where we want supply chains to be as short and lacking in international transfer as possible.

Edited by RainehDaze on Jul 12th 2020 at 7:14:48 PM

Well yes, it's called democracy. You appeal to people with slogans that they'll understand and relate to.

I remember Tomi Lahren boasting about her very own "All-American" brand.....which then turned out to be produced in China.

And when those slogans lead to people chanting "USA!" "USA!" at Republican rallies? You can't ignore the knock-on effects.

Mmmm... that's a different issue entirely. Global supply chains allow for specialization of labor and production, ideally spreading out wealth and optimizing the procurement and delivery of products.

Like everything else, it can be done poorly, but a good chunk of that can be laid on nations themselves: looking out exclusively for their own perceived interests. Global economies need global governance to prevent tax havens and labor exploitation. It's not as simple as, "Well do everything locally then."

And as we've noted, the "Made in the USA" sloganeering is often used as a vector for affinity fraud. All slogans are designed for this. You automatically feel greater trust for the people who share them regardless of their actual trustworthiness.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 12th 2020 at 2:20:18 PM

Then we change the "Made in the USA" to "Made in Michigan" if it's made there. Start replacing USA with the actual state it's made in, and that will fix that problem, I believe.

Edited by ScubaWolf on Jul 12th 2020 at 2:31:01 PM

You'll have to actually prove knockback effects, Biden's plan combines the kind of widespread economic investment that Republicans would never do with patriotic slogans. It's far more likely to undercut Trump's support than bolster it.

I can certainly respect skepticism towards nationalism but I think in this situation it is unwarranted.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Jul 12th 2020 at 11:32:19 AM

I hope you're right, but I remain skeptical.

The New York Post was even whining about Biden using those slogans as covers for evil "Obama +" policies.

Edited by Parable on Jul 12th 2020 at 11:37:42 AM

Obama+. Yeah, that sounds about right, that's pretty much how Biden has been profiling himself during his campaign.

Maybe that should be his slogan.

In all seriousness though, is Biden becoming a bit more forward looking and independent? The "I worked for Obama! We were friends!" angle can't last forever, he has to be his own president at some point.

Biden is very much a party man, so I think he’s pretty okay with tying his legacy and identity to the party.

He realy doesn't need a strong identity other than “capable adult democrat who isn’t Trump” right now, and if the one-term rumours are true then there’s no need for him to forge such an identity for the future.

That said, being Obama's VP was something he emphasized during the primary. It's not something that's been central to his current campaign unless he's touting his experience. Which is still important. "Ready on Day One!" is something he's said since he started running and it's taken a way more important meaning since the pandemic began.

Biden's ads have stuck to a hopeful message, that we can overcome and Biden knows the hardships we're going through right now. That we can rebuild our economy and society better than what we had before.

Edited by Parable on Jul 12th 2020 at 1:49:05 AM

This makes me wonder

If Biden is going to be a one term president if he wins

Then for the next coming election

Could there be a plausible possibility of Trump trying again or would the Republicans field another candidate?