Race- Privilege, Relations, Racism, etc.

It wasn't done by Trump or his campaign himself, it was done by some fanboys.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian

Ah, right.

The point still stands, though.

My AO3 profile. Let sleeping cats lie and be cute and calming.

https://archive.is/RFwcP

NY Times article on growing racial profiling by Japanese law enforcement, especially for those who are long-term residents or have biracial origins.

I think several immigrants descendants takes the idea that their fathers where chosen by God or something similar to allow them to live in their new country.

Something that even the descendants of Mexican immigrants took by heart, despite the fact that their parents or grand-parents never crossed paths with other races (I mean, if me, as a Mexican, walk in a street and I cross path with the son/grandson of a Mexican, is more easy for me to speak to them in English, because, surely, they have put Spanish in the parking lot, or even worse, don´t speak it a bit, even worse), they would look like Juan Perez Perez but they are not having any more heritage than the one America (for me, the United States of America), brings them.

So, when Trump comes with the idea to prevent another immigrants to come, while they parents, grandparents frown their faces because it would mean problem for them, they have as granted that other immigrants are like, third-class, people...

Is sad..., I went to the point that I prefer to use my very broken English (at the time) in my trips to Texas and Arizona that try myself speaking Spanish to someone that probably will insult me for that..

Texas based Trump appointed US federal judge has ordered that the US Department of Commerce's Minority Business Development Agency must start catering to white people because it violates the Fifth Amendment's equal protection guarantee.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."

Tell the Small Business Administration and all those other majority-owned institutes to do the inverse and then we'll talk.

Edited by erazor0707 on Mar 6th 2024 at 9:57:01 AM

A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.

Over in the UK, the Conservatives' biggest donor, Frank Hester, says some things that sound a bit racist.

Specifically, that long-serving Black MP Diane Abbott "should be shot" and makes you "want to hate all Black women".

His lawyers state that they're not racist and are out of context (and UK libel law is a blunt weapon), so I'll leave it there.

Let's see what the consequences are. If any.

The Conservative party, for all its faults (and it has many) seems more diverse than the US Republicans. I'd like to think that they'll say something about this.

It probably helps that there are several parties to the right of the Tories. But yeah, pretty disguting.

Edited by Forenperser on Mar 11th 2024 at 5:06:14 PM

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian

To this day, the single most xenophobic, anti-immigrant, anti-feminist guy i ever talked to (IRL, so not an internet weirdo) was an immigrant himself from morocco.

It's part of a dynamic you see more often among rightwingers: the "pull up the ladder" effect where they will freely admit to getting benefits, being allowed to immigrate, etc but then denying others that same opportunity for fear of losing their status.

And we have a response from the Tories...

(From the updated article linked above)

I find that pretty hard to square with the original quote and its line about "all Black women". But that's the response they're using to excuse him.

Yeah...not surprised they're covering his racist ass.

Disgusted, but not surprised

I think part the dynamic also comes from the fact that people are often immigrating from places that are overall a lot more conservative. If you're already anti-LGBTQ*, anti-feminism anti-abortion etc then its a short jump to being an anti-immigration Republican compared to a pro the-rest Democrat

East Asia for example has only one nation that legalized same-sex marriages, namely Taiwan.

And if you're talking all of Asia, there's Israel too — though that country only recognizes same-sex marriages performed overseas.

Edited by M84 on Mar 12th 2024 at 5:29:15 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

The far-right British BNP used to recruit a few Sikh candidates for local and parliamentary elections. Which always boggled me, given how much their supporters liked using certain racial slurs for anyone from a desi background.

But...

On one hand, as you say, traditional values (including the importance of family when you're in a new country) make some right-wing parties appealing to immigrants. Especially when the media demonises and exaggerates some left-wing policies, or when a wedge can be driven between different groups.

On the other hand, that end of the right likes being able to deny charges of racism by showing poc and immigrants siding with them. And the "good immigrant" narrative means that welcoming a community that doesn't follow an evangelical faith and is stereotyped as hard wording is a useful way for them to claim they aren't simply racist.

(The vast majority of British Sikhs called the BNP out for what they were, of course. But they only needed a handful of supporters to shield them from the allegations of racism)

I think the reason immigrants can themselves be anti-immigration, is not about racism, but simply a case of:

"I spent years appealing to the legal channels, wasted a fortune (by local currency), and studied the language hard until I was accepted"

Or

" I risked my life to cross the sea; we were 70 of us in a boat that could only hold 20; we sailed at night, crossing 14 KM in pitch black,  and I came close to drowning; then I spent years avoiding the police and working in farms, where I was mistreated, until I finally got my papers".

"So with all the above, how come this guy can just enter without any effort at all? Why him and not me? Where is the justice in that?".

.....................

It is a sentiment similar to how you spent half a day, standing in line in front of a store, because they had a discount in that product that will end today.

When it is finally your turn, the clerk says:"Good news, everyone. Management said that the discount is permanent; you can come tomorrow or any day to have it."

A feeling of anger and frustration about the wasted effort and the injustice of the world is understandable.

Edited by jawal on Mar 12th 2024 at 12:41:34 PM

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt

I can see the why, but to me, anything more than mild fleeting annoyance is an overreaction.

SoundCloud

Having a feeling is one thing, deciding to be a jerk ass on that basis is another.

Edited by Risa123 on Mar 12th 2024 at 1:48:34 PM

The major thing about your analogy and other very parallel situations (like student loan forgiveness) is that being anti-immigration in this case is then being angry at any customer that came after you to take advantage of the deal. It's being angry that someone is getting it "easier" based on purely emotional reaction rather any rationality. It's the Karen going up to the management and screaming "You take away that discount right now! I waited in line, so everyone whose not me shouldn't get it." Maybe it's not racism, but it's not really behavior that should be sympathized with either.

And the thing is, people with that sort of sentiment never apply it to individual circumstances, they apply it to those "other" people. If it's about "hardships", the rhetoric is always applied the "caravan of illegals" walking sometimes thousands of miles as getting it "easy", and not the children of wealthy individuals who get to fly in relatively easy, because of money and connections. To go back to your analogy, let's say a large chunk of the people who couldn't take up the original deal were poor people who rely on public transportation and couldn't get off work to wait in line to grab the deal. Them now being able to get it at their convenience means that when they have time from their busy days and are willing to make the bus ride can also enjoy the deal, and you are being angry at them, instead of the type of rich person who can drive and wait for hours on their phones without having to worry about losing money or the store for setting up this silly system in the first place.

Edited by HeyMikey on Mar 12th 2024 at 6:46:25 AM

Really? Wasting years of your life in hard conditions, being away from your family, and spending a fortune, will only provoke a " mild fleeting annoyance"?

Unless you are talking about my store analogy, which to be honest, was probably not a good one from my part.

..................

It is an emotional response, of course, because we humans are emotional beings, and when we discuss people's reactions, we must take those emotions into considerations, in order to understand them, let alone change them.

I am not discussing if it is good or bad, and frankly, I am not interested in passing moral judgments. I simply pointed out the main reason-in my opinion-why this attitude is present among immigrants.

Edited by jawal on Mar 12th 2024 at 2:43:59 PM

Every Hero has his own way of eating yogurt

You said, that it is understandable. That is generally used to excuse (partially or wholly) someone. EDIT: Scratched it did not make sense on second thought.

Edited by Risa123 on Mar 12th 2024 at 3:24:09 PM

That feeling in particular is one I can very much relate too, I am now a grown ass adault and watching other women grow up actualy having the paths available to them I wanted to have... more equal opportunities in education and employment... the ability to actualy join the SDF in a meaningful capacity and so on... like as bad as it sounds it does make me a bit jealous and upset because I wanted those opportunities myself.

But like here is the thing I am not mad or upset at them, and I would never vote to screw them over... and still fight so that they can get better, because guess what.. there not why I got screwed, society and the goverment is.

So that's where the anger and negative emotions go, be happy for the people that are getting better and direct the anger to the system that fucked you over.

It's "funny" how a lot of the same people who whine about the younger people supposedly having it better conveniently ignore all the ways younger people have it harder. Stuff like not being able to find a job, afford a house, etc.

Disgusted, but not surprised

That's a more constructive way to channel that anger honestly, because at least it can open the doors for more people to find better opportunities in the future.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.

Well the former isnt really better if it's because the requirements are imposible over because they flat out refuse to hire women.

...

But yea :/

Anger needs to go to its corect place, at the end of the day it's the socioty or the goverment that is failing us on most problems...

x6 There's understandable in that you can understand the thought processes and the emotional logic that goes into their feelings and then there's understandable meaning justifiable, in that the way they articulate these emotions and the recommended actions is based on any rationality whatsoever. Racism at its heart is an emotional response. Any form of bigotry is an emotional response. Usually a combination of perceived hardship and conglomerating certain groups of people together and making generalizations on the deservedness of their circumstances. Learning why people are racist or bigots and how it manifests are valuable information as it can inform what type of actions would best be used to combat it, but if their response has no rationality to it, better to not bother with them and spend resources trying to change it and instead work with people who would see reason.

The thing with racism and bigotry is that many racists and bigots coach their bigotry in rational sounding rhetoric, when on deeper inspection doesn't hold up, and don't have consistent ideological principles. And the actions they take seems more based on petty spite at their perceived lesser than rational and well-researched solutions. Bringing Trump into this, because the current immigration dialog is heavily based on Trump's rhetoric and actions. Although not all anti-immigration immigrants support Trump, I find there is a very massive overlap. And, in my opinion, if you're an anti-immigration immigrant supporting Trump, that's a major red flags that either you're heavily insulated by your own privilege (like Elaine Chao) or believe you're one of the "good ones" who did everything right and they won't come for you if they have the chance.

Edited by HeyMikey on Mar 12th 2024 at 7:53:55 AM