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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from a handcart heading to Hell Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
Jan 10th 2019 at 1:48:11 PM

Thereís a fallback option for if we canít get an extension, just strait up cancel Brexit and spend 5 years rebuilding public services and implementing Levison so that people will vote based on that rather than Labour Ďbetrayingí Brexit.

Honestly Iíd favour that, get elected then cancel Brexit and spend five years showing how all the Ďissuesí with the EU were problems with our government that we could have chosen to fix years ago. Do that alongside breaking the press barrons and we might well be able to get re-elected.

Now such a strategy might require getting Corbyn to stand down after winning an election, but if he tries to push a no-deal Brexit I think we might be able to oust him.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Jan 10th 2019 at 2:07:22 PM

If Corbynís not even openly backing a refendum now, itís hard to imagine him outright cancelling Brexit within a month of being elected.

Edited by Galadriel on Jan 10th 2019 at 5:07:54 AM

RainehDaze from Scotland Relationship Status: Mu
Jan 10th 2019 at 2:14:24 PM

Less than a page from an email where Corbyn backs a public vote to "Corbyn doesn't back a public vote!"

That's impressive.

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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from a handcart heading to Hell Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
Jan 10th 2019 at 2:16:14 PM

Right now heís keeping his options open because thatís the best way to get elected, if he has the power to impact the situation that could change rapidly. Plus learning that the EU isnít going to trust him is liable to open his eyes. Right now itís about rhetoric, if he wins itís about a Hard Brexit or cancling Brexit.

Plus Corbyn may not need to make the call himself, with a Labour majority there might be enough votes in the Commons to cancel Brexit without him, that would either require him to table the bill or a private memberís bill to get though, but it could happen.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Jan 10th 2019 at 2:25:46 PM

The Baroness Howells of St Davids retired from Parliament today.

Jan 10th 2019 at 2:29:23 PM

Rainey Daze: I read the email. It said ďwe are keeping all options on the table, including a peopleís voteĒ. Thatís a statement that they havenít ruled out a refendum, not that theyíre actively backing one.

Edited by Galadriel on Jan 10th 2019 at 5:29:41 AM

Jan 10th 2019 at 4:38:34 PM

Exactly. And frankly, it sounds very evasive and as if the public's vote is only there as some sort of last solution.

In any case, the UK has basically three options:

1. They revoke article 50

This is easily the best option, but comes with the problem that the UK politicians are not ready to do so without some kind of mandate. Or additional mandate, theoretically they have one on the grounds of having gotten elected. That's why a people's vote is so important.

2. They go for May's withdrawal agreement

To be clear here: It doesn't make a difference if the Tories or Labour are in power, the withdrawal agreement won't change. what kind of trade deals comes after, THAT's where May's red lines are coming into play again, and that's the point where Labour would most likely be the better option but this is the next step. We aren't here that. And frankly, tactically speaking at can only be to Labour's long term disadvantage if they end up having to clean up the mess the Tories created without having the best option - see above - still on the table.

3. They crash out

Which is the option everyone says they want to avoid, but it might happen by default.

GoldenKaos Soli Deo Gloria from Ynys y Cedyrn - Europa Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Soli Deo Gloria
Jan 11th 2019 at 3:22:57 AM

If the options are try to get a decent Brexit deal or People's vote, then yes, it is the last solution. Because those are the priorities the Labour members voted on back during the ... am I going around in circles? I feel like I'm going around in circles.

(I forget who brought up this point, but someone pointed out that for all the flaws of the referendum - it's still the most democratic vote the British populace can cast, and the one most representative of their views. All the votes count. This is compared to the FPTP system that elects our M Ps, where an MP can get 100% of the seat if only 40% of the populace voted for them. So, overruling it is something the democratically-minded Corbyn would be loathe to do anyway.)

Cenedl Heb Iaith - Cenedl Heb Urddas
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Jan 11th 2019 at 3:42:01 AM

Delay to Brexit on way, Cabinet ministers reveal

In short, it's looking like there won't be enough time to pass all the legislation needed before March 29th.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Jan 11th 2019 at 3:59:08 AM

Whut? They still don't have the power to delay Brexit....

GoldenKaos Soli Deo Gloria from Ynys y Cedyrn - Europa Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Soli Deo Gloria
Jan 11th 2019 at 3:59:42 AM

Peter Hargreaves, the billionaire who was the second biggest donor to the 2016 leave campaign, and veteran hedge fund manager Crispin Odey told Reuters they expect Britain to stay in the EU.

"I have totally given up. I am totally in despair, I don't think Brexit will happen at all," said Mr Hargreaves, 72, who is one of Britain's wealthiest men and donated £3.2 million ($4.08 million) to the leave campaign.

My heart bleeds.

[up]The article mentions they're putting out feelers on asking to extend the date.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Jan 11th 2019 at 12:00:34 PM

Cenedl Heb Iaith - Cenedl Heb Urddas
Jan 11th 2019 at 4:19:22 AM

Mm...let me guess the answer...non, nein, NO!!!!!

GoldenKaos Soli Deo Gloria from Ynys y Cedyrn - Europa Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Soli Deo Gloria
Jan 11th 2019 at 4:22:25 AM

The entire approach to Brexit we've seen from the government has been a "don't ask, don't get" attitude though, so I don't think it'll stop them asking.

And who knows, the EU might go "we'll let you have the time to do this and only this".

Edited by GoldenKaos on Jan 11th 2019 at 12:29:20 PM

Cenedl Heb Iaith - Cenedl Heb Urddas
Jan 11th 2019 at 5:02:45 AM

Unlikely. The EU has been running out of patience for a while. The only card the UK has to play is signing the withdrawal agreement in exchange for a small (one month or so) extension...and even that is unlikely.

GoldenKaos Soli Deo Gloria from Ynys y Cedyrn - Europa Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Soli Deo Gloria
Jan 11th 2019 at 5:53:32 AM

Or by extending the date indefinitely... by revoking Article 50 wink

Cenedl Heb Iaith - Cenedl Heb Urddas
Jan 11th 2019 at 6:20:39 AM

They can always do that. But they can't do it and then restart the clock.

Edited by Swanpride on Jan 11th 2019 at 6:21:04 AM

RainehDaze from Scotland Relationship Status: Mu
Jan 11th 2019 at 6:39:36 AM

One of the bills is a healthcare bill. If by some miracle May got a deal of any sort through next week and we'd still need time to pass these, I would rather that get passed and not abandon all parliamentary procedure and scrutiny for some stupid ideological obsession with the leave date on either side.

An influential group of Cabinet ministers is understood to be pushing a Plan B designed to attract Labour support. Chancellor Philip Hammond, Mrs Mayís de facto deputy David Lidington, Business Secretary Greg Clark, Justice Secretary David Gauke, and Ms Rudd, are said to support permanent membership of a customs union, which Labour has proposed.

Odd.

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GoldenKaos Soli Deo Gloria from Ynys y Cedyrn - Europa Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Soli Deo Gloria
Jan 11th 2019 at 7:32:23 AM

I thought May's deal basically was a customs union but just outside the single market? Did I misunderstand something?

Cenedl Heb Iaith - Cenedl Heb Urddas
RainehDaze from Scotland Relationship Status: Mu
Jan 11th 2019 at 7:38:18 AM

Only until the border question is resolved, IIRC. Being an inconsistent compromise is why nobody liked it.

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GoldenKaos Soli Deo Gloria from Ynys y Cedyrn - Europa Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Soli Deo Gloria
Jan 11th 2019 at 8:27:14 AM

What, so once NI gets sorted out, no customs union?

Cenedl Heb Iaith - Cenedl Heb Urddas
RainehDaze from Scotland Relationship Status: Mu
Jan 11th 2019 at 8:36:48 AM

That's pretty much the NI backstop that keeps getting talked about, isn't it?

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Jan 11th 2019 at 8:37:42 AM

There is no way to sort out NI.

GoldenKaos Soli Deo Gloria from Ynys y Cedyrn - Europa Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Soli Deo Gloria
Jan 11th 2019 at 8:47:35 AM

[up][up]Yeah, makes sense. [up]We know, but that's hardly relevant to the discussion at hand.

Cenedl Heb Iaith - Cenedl Heb Urddas
Jan 11th 2019 at 8:55:42 AM

It's relevant in the sense that the backstop will be permanent.

RainehDaze from Scotland Relationship Status: Mu
Jan 11th 2019 at 9:10:42 AM

Too permanent for the Brexiteers, not formal or permanent enough for anyone else.

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