British Politics Thread

There’s a fallback option for if we can’t get an extension, just strait up cancel Brexit and spend 5 years rebuilding public services and implementing Levison so that people will vote based on that rather than Labour ‘betraying’ Brexit.

Honestly I’d favour that, get elected then cancel Brexit and spend five years showing how all the ‘issues’ with the EU were problems with our government that we could have chosen to fix years ago. Do that alongside breaking the press barrons and we might well be able to get re-elected.

Now such a strategy might require getting Corbyn to stand down after winning an election, but if he tries to push a no-deal Brexit I think we might be able to oust him.

If Corbyn’s not even openly backing a refendum now, it’s hard to imagine him outright cancelling Brexit within a month of being elected.

Edited by Galadriel on Jan 10th 2019 at 5:07:54 AM

Less than a page from an email where Corbyn backs a public vote to "Corbyn doesn't back a public vote!"

That's impressive.

Right now he’s keeping his options open because that’s the best way to get elected, if he has the power to impact the situation that could change rapidly. Plus learning that the EU isn’t going to trust him is liable to open his eyes. Right now it’s about rhetoric, if he wins it’s about a Hard Brexit or cancling Brexit.

Plus Corbyn may not need to make the call himself, with a Labour majority there might be enough votes in the Commons to cancel Brexit without him, that would either require him to table the bill or a private member’s bill to get though, but it could happen.

The Baroness Howells of St Davids retired from Parliament today.

Rainey Daze: I read the email. It said “we are keeping all options on the table, including a people’s vote”. That’s a statement that they haven’t ruled out a refendum, not that they’re actively backing one.

Edited by Galadriel on Jan 10th 2019 at 5:29:41 AM

Exactly. And frankly, it sounds very evasive and as if the public's vote is only there as some sort of last solution.

In any case, the UK has basically three options:

1. They revoke article 50

This is easily the best option, but comes with the problem that the UK politicians are not ready to do so without some kind of mandate. Or additional mandate, theoretically they have one on the grounds of having gotten elected. That's why a people's vote is so important.

2. They go for May's withdrawal agreement

To be clear here: It doesn't make a difference if the Tories or Labour are in power, the withdrawal agreement won't change. what kind of trade deals comes after, THAT's where May's red lines are coming into play again, and that's the point where Labour would most likely be the better option but this is the next step. We aren't here that. And frankly, tactically speaking at can only be to Labour's long term disadvantage if they end up having to clean up the mess the Tories created without having the best option - see above - still on the table.

3. They crash out

Which is the option everyone says they want to avoid, but it might happen by default.

If the options are try to get a decent Brexit deal or People's vote, then yes, it is the last solution. Because those are the priorities the Labour members voted on back during the ... am I going around in circles? I feel like I'm going around in circles.

(I forget who brought up this point, but someone pointed out that for all the flaws of the referendum - it's still the most democratic vote the British populace can cast, and the one most representative of their views. All the votes count. This is compared to the FPTP system that elects our M Ps, where an MP can get 100% of the seat if only 40% of the populace voted for them. So, overruling it is something the democratically-minded Corbyn would be loathe to do anyway.)

Delay to Brexit on way, Cabinet ministers reveal

In short, it's looking like there won't be enough time to pass all the legislation needed before March 29th.

Whut? They still don't have the power to delay Brexit....

My heart bleeds.

The article mentions they're putting out feelers on asking to extend the date.

Edited by GoldenKaos on Jan 11th 2019 at 12:00:34 PM

Mm...let me guess the answer...non, nein, NO!!!!!

The entire approach to Brexit we've seen from the government has been a "don't ask, don't get" attitude though, so I don't think it'll stop them asking.

And who knows, the EU might go "we'll let you have the time to do this and only this".

Edited by GoldenKaos on Jan 11th 2019 at 12:29:20 PM

Unlikely. The EU has been running out of patience for a while. The only card the UK has to play is signing the withdrawal agreement in exchange for a small (one month or so) extension...and even that is unlikely.

Or by extending the date indefinitely... by revoking Article 50

They can always do that. But they can't do it and then restart the clock.

Edited by Swanpride on Jan 11th 2019 at 6:21:04 AM

One of the bills is a healthcare bill. If by some miracle May got a deal of any sort through next week and we'd still need time to pass these, I would rather that get passed and not abandon all parliamentary procedure and scrutiny for some stupid ideological obsession with the leave date on either side.

Odd.

I thought May's deal basically was a customs union but just outside the single market? Did I misunderstand something?

Only until the border question is resolved, IIRC. Being an inconsistent compromise is why nobody liked it.

What, so once NI gets sorted out, no customs union?

That's pretty much the NI backstop that keeps getting talked about, isn't it?

There is no way to sort out NI.

Yeah, makes sense. We know, but that's hardly relevant to the discussion at hand.

It's relevant in the sense that the backstop will be permanent.

Too permanent for the Brexiteers, not formal or permanent enough for anyone else.