The Death Penalty

True, but if the only options were "Falsely convicted and forced to live like an animal in a giant prison with people who will shank you without a second thought" and "falsely convicted and forced to go through rehabilitation that you may or may not need with some basic human comforts" I think people would pick the later.

Perhaps we need to quit using exotic and rare chemicals and have a moratorium on the appeals process, such as that after 5 years or something there are no more appeals to be had.

The appeals are the problem, I think most of them have the right to at least one appeal, but not enough to take decades to do.

What happen to the chair? Did the electric bills go up to much

edited 25th Feb '11 3:22:01 PM by joeyjojo

hashtagsarestupid

@Joey: It was deemed "inhumane".

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Who said war was cool?

Enjoy the Inferno...

@MRDA: No one did. I was merely pointing out the pervasive aspect of "state sponsored murder" and how, while it is immoral, it is also somewhat necessary.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

If you cut down on the appeal process then America's infamous practice of executing innocent people is only going to skyrocket. We really don't want to become like China who mows down 3000 people a year through speed trials.

I just think that if God(s) existed, they would be the only ones capable of making such a snap decision of "someone should die". Otherwise, you jail them. If they can't be rehabilitated, then you just never let them out.

But there's 12 people on a jury, which one of them gets to push the button/flip the switch?  ^*

^{On the upside, the mere possibility would probably get more people to quit trying to skip out on jury duty for the chance to execute someone.}

I agree, and it's one of the things I highly dislike about the legal system.

And IMO, the third group is by far the smallest.

Honestly, I don't see how lethal injection has turned out to be the least Cruel And Unusual Punishment that we have. I'm pretty sure that a bullet to the head or a knife to the heart is faster, less painful, and a hell of a lot cheaper. I understand the legal means - we still execute too many innocent people for the crime of having bad lawyers or overly zealous police/prosecutors. Also, there are a lot of crimes  ^*

that would be better served by a few hundred hours of community service and a hefty fine.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

Life inprisonment is a valid alternative to the death penalty.

Now, what if you get the oddball criminal that wants the death penalty?

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

A lethal injection sounds like a quick humane way to kill someone, but my understanding is that it isn't always. It can take half an hour for them to find the vein and mess about organising the injection. I'd rather a bullet, personally.

Be not afraid...

Since I support the idea of a death penalty but don't like the current system, here's how I'd fix it...if, you know, I was suddenly king or something.

• Simplify the legal code. Too many things are against the law that really shouldn't be, and the law itself is so godawfully complex that lawyers have to go to school for 12+ years to learn how to interpret it.
  • legalize, decriminalize. Legalize pot at the very least, and decriminalize all other forms of drug possession  ^*
    ^{for those who don't know, "decriminalization" means that you pay a fine/do community service rather than serve a jail sentence. The difference between a parking ticket and a DUI violation, for example.}
    . Fines collect revenue, incarceration is a drain on it. Hell, ending incarceration from drug offenses alone would free up a lot of jail space.
  • More leeway for the enforcers. There are so many hampering laws on our criminal justice system that its no wonder the innocent are punished and the guilty go free. Allow judges more latitude in interpreting the law, and make it harder for their decisions to be questioned/overturned. Which plays into...
  • Stiffer penalties for bad enforcers. Since their job involves deciding the fates of men, they should by default be held to a higher standard of conduct. Example; a cop takes a bribe. I have no problem with the idea of corruption equaling a long prison stay or even execution, if the offense was egregious enough. Military tropers can check me if I'm wrong, but aren't our soldiers held to a similar standard? Are their duties not similar?

• Fix the jails. The penal system is totally broken when the poor live worse than our caged criminals, and unfortunately this is often the case.
  • Bring back chain gangs. This is a big one, and it would solve several problems. For one, a guy who's worked a 10+ hour shift swinging a pick is going to be too damn tired to fuck his cellmate, start fires, brew pruno, etc...he's just going to go to bed like a good scout. For another, 10 shovels and a guard is a good deal cheaper than an earthmover, and there are very few jobs that a bunch of guys with picks and shovels can't do. This could be offered as an addition to "good behavior" rules, allowing a prisoner who has learned his lesson another avenue to return to society more quickly. Oh, and should they get paid? No. It's called "paying your debt to society" for a reason.
  • remove prisoner luxuries. No, they don't need TV. No, they don't get roleplaying games. No, they don't get to see their wives on conjugal visits. This is punishment, and the point of punishment is to take away the nice things until you learn better. It works on kids, and it would work on adults if we'd only have the stomach for it.
  • Corporal Punishment. I think that, if I were a small-time offender and I had to choose between getting 10 public lashes and spending 30 days in the can, I'd take the lashes and be out that afternoon (albeit with a sore ass). What's wrong with a little pain and humiliation for someone caught shoplifting/vandalizing/being publicly drunk? They did something willfully stupid, and they deserve to get hurt for it. Perhaps this could be used for people too poor to pay their fines.

And now we get to the big one...

• The Death Penalty: Yes, we'd have one. And it would be for serious upper-case offenses (Murder, violent rape, etc.) done repeatedly.
  • Public executions. No, we would not hide behind a system when we go to shoot our mad dogs. It would be done in the open. And those who were responsible for condemning said criminal to death would be required to attend. If this cannot be stomached, then maybe the guy doesn't deserve his fate. As I said above; pass the sentence, swing the sword...or at least watch the blood.
  • Simplify the appeals process. Right now, the laws surrounding execution are such a tangled morass that no one benefits; as has been stated before, criminals can wait decades before their fate is decided. This is not fair to society (it costs too much) it is not fair to the victims or their families (waiting 20 years to see if justice will be done) and it is not fair to the prisoners (waiting 20 years to see if they are going to get killed or not sounds worse to me than actually dying). Institute the death penalty at the federal level, and remove contradictory or confusing statutes.
  • Expediency, not "humanity". There is no reason whatsoever that a bullet to the head is more or less "humane" than a complex round of injections costing thousands of dollars. And the number of people who've survived a large-caliber bullet to the dome at contact range is rather small indeed. Besides, two shots usually solves that problem.

There's probably more, and this post is going to touch off a shitstorm, but whatever. I guess some of you should be glad I have no plans to go into politics or touch off a revolution.

Peace,

The Drunk Scriblerian

edited 25th Feb '11 4:55:00 PM by drunkscriblerian

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

^

I like.

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

Its funny, my friend from Europe has mentioned American prisons are no better than animal cells, and people think there are still too many luxuries in prison.

I honestly don't know how I feel about it.

Maybe we ARE a bit too revenge happy? Maybe we SHOULD be treating prison more of a rehabilitation center than a punishment center?

edited 25th Feb '11 5:41:37 PM by Thorn14

The problems are due mainly to overcrowding, Thorn. Which is why 3/4 of what I was talking about were ways to get people who don't need to be in prison out of prison.

EDIT: And, you cannot rehabilitate the unwilling...but you can punish them. If a prisoner wants rehabilitation, such services should be available. But the individual has to A: step up voluntarily and B: prove their commitment before the state invests any money.

edited 25th Feb '11 5:43:07 PM by drunkscriblerian

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

That's funny, my other friend from Europe said that we treat criminals entirely too well.

edited 25th Feb '11 5:42:12 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

^^^ Yes, we should. Ive said it before, that prison shoudl have two purposes in mind. separation of criminals from the general population, AND rehabilitation to restore them back into that general population.

It seems that society at large knows the first reason, but forget the second.

edited 25th Feb '11 5:43:34 PM by pvtnum11

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

Yeah but what you suggested is a bit too extreme.

I mean not allowing their family to visit? I mean DAMN.

@Thorn: I was speaking of conjugal visits specifically (where married couples are given "private time"), not visitation rights.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

Yes, but also keep in mind that he's suggesting this if there was a complete rehaul of the system that was able to reduce the number of prisoners.

edited 25th Feb '11 5:48:02 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Still, complete isolation is a bad idea IMO

It doesn't work for kids, it doesn't work for adults, it doesn't work for animals. All it does is stress people and make them break down, making it less likely that they learn.

This kind of thinking was outdated among professionals by the 1920s

edited 25th Feb '11 5:51:45 PM by Thorn14

As much as I like the idea that drunkscribblerian laid out, I can't see it actually happening. A lot of stuff would have to transpire to make that plan a reality, to include the alteration of a hell of a bunch of laws.

Also, how would we adjudicate those in prison under laws that we'll overturn as no longer being felonies? Simply let them go on time served with a full pardon? They've spent time in prison. They will need help to readjust back into society again.

Not saying it can't work, just that it'll be a daunting task to perform.

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

@Thorn: Did you see his response? He's talking about getting rid of booty calls from married inmates, not isolating them completely.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Sorry, I should have quoted this part.

"This is punishment, and the point of punishment is to take away the nice things until you learn better. It works on kids, and it would work on adults if we'd only have the stomach for it. "

Also I'm tired, I'm not really into a big discussion, even though I probably got myself into one.

edited 25th Feb '11 5:53:27 PM by Thorn14

@Thorn: So you're advocating that violent offenders get cable television at the state's expense?

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

(Also, this is coming from some delegation with my friend, we share the same opinion but is better at putting it in words)

If it makes them less likely to shank each others or revert to crime once released? Definitely, I cannot see how anybody can disagree with that

The purpose of prisons is to reduce crime, avoiding breaking prisoners and giving them PTSD is directly conducive to that goal