The Fighting Game topic

Honestly, my major concern with Nether Realm doing a Marvel game is the story.

Marvel probably gels better with their darker and edgier sort of style, but I'm one of those people who really didn't like what they did with the DC characters in Injustice.

I love Max but I think he's overestimating just how big an impact a gameplay switch would have. NRS style fighting games have always had a wider audience than hyper games, unfortunately. He references Cross Tag Battle, for instance, but MK 11 and Injustice 2 both outsold it by orders of magnitude. Especially when you consider how much of the controversy over MVC: Infinite was about the crappy visuals and roster, a Marvel fighting game with MK 11-level production values and a roster that doesn't omit the X-Men would likely sell like gangbusters regardless of how closely it played to older MVC games.

I dont think thats fair to compare:The IP alone gives MK and Injustice more consumer power. Max was talking about the style of those hyper tag basred anime fighters, as in there will be more that play like marvel even if another marvel fighting game doesnt. hell, there are already other marvel fighting games (but we dont talk about those) so seeing the avengers punch people thata rent Ryu wouldnt be novel.

I know what he was talking about WRT the gameplay, I was saying the production value and pedigree would likely give this an in with a casual audience that any inevitable discontent with a different gameplay style likely wouldn't be an issue. Case in point, you could make the argument Injustice 2 isn't all that novel either, and yet it still utterly obliterated a lot of the Japanese fighters that are big with the FGC.

I mean, I got Injustice 2 because it let me beat up people as Captain Cold. It's not a particularly fun game, though, and the story only appeals to a very specific type of comic fan. But I bought it. It has broad appeal. And it's not as outwardly intimidating as the more anime-esque "hyper" fighters.

Yea, that's why I disagree, & at the same time agreed, with Max about superhero games needing to be as hyper as possible. It's a lot easier to digest what's happening on screen when things aren't literally filling up the screen. There's a reason why back in the day there were people who prefer CVS 2 over MVC 2.

Not that it was never there, but I'm not entirely sure why suddenly everyone needs to talk about I2's flaws, which admittedly are valid but at the same time it feels like a lot of people are downplaying I2 overall. The dealbreaker for me was, once again, how projectile heavy the game is. But that never really outweighs the pros the game has. Which was admittedly was just playing as Power Girl, Sub-Zero, Raiden, & the TMNT.

Then there's how I2 & Infinite made me realize how much I actually don't really like superheroes as much as I did when I was a kid.

If you had to narrow down a Marvel vs DC roster into 20-30 characters (evenly split, of course), who would you pick? It's an insane task, like I said, my idea was to have 90 characters across 3 games, and I still had to make some really tough cuts. If you really twisted my arm for 10 characters each:

• Marvel: Captain America (Sam Wilson), Iron Man, Spider-Man, Hulk, Thor, Wolverine, Green Goblin, Dr. Doom, Magneto, and Thanos.

• DC: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman, Joker, Lex Luthor, Cheetah, and Darkseid.

And for DLC (not necessarily in order of release):

• Marvel: Fantastic 4 (you play as Ben, with Reed, Sue, and Johnny as special move assists), Cyclops, Dr. Strange, Mandarin, and Loki.

• DC: Martian Manhunter, Cyborg, Hawkwoman, Sinestro, Captain Cold.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Apr 30th 2021 at 4:07:32 AM

Speaking of NetherRealm Studios...

It and Bandai Namco issued statements saying they're opting out of partnering with something called WePlay.

Never even heard of WePlay until now.

Going off Injustice 2's 28 + 10 DLC, I'll do 30 with 10 DLC split evenly.

Marvel: Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Black Panther, Spider-Man, Captain Marvel, Wolverine, Loki, Magneto, Storm, Human Torch, Doctor Doom, Ant-Man and Shang-Chi

DC: Batman, Wonder Woman, Superman, Green Lantern (John Stewart with swappable skins for Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner, Kyle Rayner and Jessica Cruz), Flash, Aquaman, Catwoman, Black Manta, Cheetah, Starfire, Blue Beetle, Bane, Raven, Black Adam, Captain Cold

Marvel DLC: Ms. Marvel, Iceman, Deadpool, Daredevil and Scarlet Witch

DC DLC: Harley Quinn, Crazy Jane, Lady Shiva, Clayface and Big Barda

Edited by comicwriter on Apr 30th 2021 at 3:52:15 AM

That's a lot of Batman villains. Otherwise i like your lineup.

I'd switch Bane with Metallo or King Shark for one. I'd also swap out Clayface.

And i feel like Luthor should make the cut, especially if the Marvel side has Doom.

Edited by Cortez on Apr 30th 2021 at 12:37:09 PM

I think the base roster would be more akin to Injustice 1 than 2, which had 24 characters in the base roster. Also, I think there's no way we wouldn't get Thanos and Darkseid as the ultimate final unlockable boss characters.

Yes. I like Batman villains.

Batman has a great rogues gallery, but I think the first installment of a Marvel vs DC game should be just limited to Joker. No Harley Quinn, no Bane, no Two-Face, no Poison Ivy, no Scarecrow, just Joker. Same goes for Spider-Man, Green Goblin should be the only one of his Rogues Gallery made playable, even though Venom, Doc Ock, Vulture, Rhino, Kingpin, and Lizard would all be great in a fighting game.

The goal of the first installment of Marvel vs DC should be to just make all the most popular characters in each universe playable while casting as wide a net as possible in terms of both character gameplay and character relationships. Only one villain from each rogues gallery, no sidekicks, no clones, etc.

Ehhhhhh, I think Venom should at least be DLC for a first installment. Adaptational Villainy aside, he's mostly been an anti-hero. Same would go for Robin or Nightwing on the DC side (though with Dick you'd also be getting another Titan's rep so he's arguably more justified). I do agree that an initial Marvel vs DC game should stick to the archenemy in each heroes rogues gallery.

My ideal for a 30-limit roster (with some personal bias) would be

DC: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman, Doctor Fate, Lobo, Darkseid, Slade, Lex, Bane, Black Manta, Spectre

Marvel: Cap, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Spider Man, Ghost Rider, Deadpool, Wolverine, Dormammu, Doctor Strange, Psylocke, Magneto, Doctor Doom, Death's Head, Thanos

Edited by Rynnec on May 1st 2021 at 8:06:44 AM

Robin and Venom are just too similar to Batman and Spider-Man, in terms of gameplay. Ideally, I'd want all of the characters to have distinct and unique playstyles. Also, that's a 20-limit roster, and I think it needs more villains. I had more heroes than villains in my idea, but I tried to keep the number of villains just barely below half.

Oh fuck, my bad. Fixed my big screw up there and added a bit more villains. Unfortunately I still couldn't think of too many female characters within the limit

For a Marvel vs DC roster, I'd say go backwards from what we know is going to be in the game, making allowances for what is most popular.

Given a 20-30 character roster: first assume the most popular/movie relevant heroes of the Justice League and (film) Avengers are going to be in the game, first and foremost (I'll deal with Batman in a sec) - so for now let's say:

• Superman
• Wonder Woman
• The Flash
• Iron Man
• Thor
• The Hulk
• Captain America

That's six so far. Then, because it's Batman - make allowances for Batman to probably get a little more than the usual mythos, so:

• Batman
• One of the Robins
• A Batman villain, probably Joker.

For the same reason, Spider-Man:

• Spidey
• Venom
• A second Spider-Man villain, hopefully Doc Ock.

Next, iconic villains in either category who aren't likely to be final boss material:

• Magneto
• Dr. Doom
• Loki
• Lex Luthor
• Deathstroke

X-Men characters, especially now that Marvel isn't suppressing them any more. Typically, due to this mythos' wide range of character abilities, fighting games draw on it more than most of Marvel's other series. Let's say:

• Storm
• Cyclops
• Wolverine

To counter that, general DC characters (or other, less popular Justice League) members. DC doesn't have a single mythos that just generates diverse character powersets like X-Men, but it does have tons of others from all over.

• Cyborg
• Green Lantern
• Aquaman
• Blue Beetle
• Either Captain Cold or Killer Frost
• Another Teen Titans member, probably Raven.

And, to make it even, one character from Marvel that doesn't fit into the previous categories:

• Either Dr. Strange or Shang-Chi (since both have movies that would be recent, if the game really is in development), to give a mystical character to match Raven.

Then, finally, a character not in the main roster who serves as a final boss. There are... a lot of options for that (Darkseid, Onslaught, Thanos, Ultraman (evil Superman), etc, and that's just the guys who have already been bosses in games), but since they wouldn't be part of the roster I won't list them.

That's 26 characters (and I wouldn't put it past them to put a fourth Batman character in there), and making allowances that some of these listed might be DLC it seems pretty reasonable (heck, DLC might put it higher than this number tbh).

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 1st 2021 at 9:02:45 AM

You forgot Captain America, there's no way they won't include him. I could even see including him over Thor. Which version depends, but I went with Sam Wilson Cap because Falcon's never been in a fighting game, there's nothing Steve can do with the shield that Sam couldn't, and Sam's wings give him a lot more potential for unique attacks and special moves. Plus recency and black representation.

Ah, yeah. Add Captain America, and change Aquaman or Blue Beetle to Aquaman and Blue Beetle.

... there is a severe lack of Captain America

'd

Honestly I could see them going the extra mile and making a bigger than usual roster

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on May 1st 2021 at 11:08:21 AM

"Going the extra mile" would be 30 characters. 20 is the norm for the base roster of the first installment of a fighting game.

Batman, Spiderman, and The Xmen in general would either be reigned in or well what you expect to happen where large chunks of the roster are devoted to them.

Batman's issue has always been fighting games just love to cram Bat Villains into them even if you could pick characters from other franchises that easily fill the same niche' cause DC villains tend to overlap... alot 'IE Captain Cold over Mr Freeze, Doctor Destiny over Scarecrow

Spiderman and his rouge's have a similar problem

The Xmen are the Xmen... No one will be happy with which ones '+ wolverine' they choose

I went with Green Goblin as my sole Spidey villain because he really is Spider-Man's primary arch-nemesis, more so than any other. Plus he's never been in a fighting game before and it's long past time for it, same with Loki and Mandarin.

Also, I really, really want the Fantastic 4 to have a slot, even if they have to share.

Dr. Destiny has more in common with a character like Raven then he does with Scarecrow.

Sometimes.

Dr. Destiny's powers are weird and barely defined, tbh.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 1st 2021 at 10:17:53 AM

I don't see a world where there aren't at least two Batman villains unless this hypothetical Marvel vs. DC game is something hyper specific like Justice League vs. Avengers. I had to show restraint in not putting in both Harley and Joker even when most likely they'd both end up in.