This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.
- Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
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- Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread
which covers them.
Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.
Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.
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Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It's not like Spider-Gwen is currently on fire. It went from being a series that was outselling Miles' post-Secret Wars to currently being very near to drop the top-100 when the last relaunch hasn't even finished it's first arc.
Spider-Gwen's problem with audiences I feel is that she doesn't resemble either the take on the character we saw in the Spider-Verse movie or Latour and Rodriguez's interpretation, she's back to resembling the plank-of-wood Gwen
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
Yikes.
Beginning to think Jack was right about Gwen, even if he was pretty strong in expressing that opinion.
One Strip! One Strip!
What was the last issue you read? Because she talks and acts exactly like Latour's Gwen to me. The sales dip probably has more to do with the book being relaunched again.
The Head of the Hydra
Is her series still doing the dimension-hopping?
Cause that might also be part of it.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
man i'm glad miguel got to be able to spend time with his family. sure it took his whole timeline getting unraveled but hey
That's quite the exaggeration.
Just between 616 and 65. But yeah, i miss the world building from Latour's run. Part of the fun was Earth-65 and the differences from the main universe.
And trying to make "Ghost-Spider" work. It's ridiculous honestly.
She was still popular enough to make it into films though.
Spider-Gwen was a break out character. Edge of Spider-Verse 2 sold like crazy, thus her getting a book and Latour's run lasted for a combined 39 issues, which rare these days.
And Latour's run ended because he wanted to move on to other work.
Now younger fans think of her when they hear the name Gwen Stacy.
Edited by Cortez on Dec 21st 2019 at 11:38:54 AM
x5 There’s actually a really good quote from Stan Lee, about how much MJ came to life, in a way Gwen never did.
But we couldn't make it work! [...]
It was like something out of "The Twilight Zone". These were fictional characters, or so we had always thought. I had created them. I could mold them in any manner I desired. I could make them do whatever I wanted. Or could I?
M.J. seized the dominant female role in our strip, just as powerfully as if she were human. Having once established her character, we couldn't violate what we had already set up. She was colorful and appealing from the start. No matter how I later tried to play her down, make her subordinate to Gwen Stacy, I couldn't do it. M.J. always outshone Gwen. If it were a Broadway show, M.J. would have been the one who always grabbed center stage, and held it.”
We actually saw that come up again, I think.
Edited by megaeliz on Dec 21st 2019 at 10:55:50 AM
You just linked to the Brand New Day trope page.
Edited by Cortez on Dec 21st 2019 at 11:40:25 AM
Every attempt to write MJ out and give Peter another love interest (Which BND had a lot of), has fallen flat, because none of them have had the same life or presence that MJ has had from her very first appearance.
Edited by megaeliz on Dec 21st 2019 at 10:44:56 AM
The trick is not to make Gwen into a love interest, but rather give her her own stuff to do and her own personality outside of "Peter's dead ex-girlfriend." That's why Spider-Gwen worked so well.
Professional Complainer
MJ's in a weird place because it seems like every negative aspect of her character is perceived as some angry writer's attempt to break up the second most important romance in cape comics. It's like ever since she first appeared in that legendary panel it was written into the margins of the universe that she was The One For Peter.
×3
I get what you're saying, but I think you're overstating how long Brand New Day lasted.
It was just that arc that was the issue.
alliterator: I don't know what it is, but I feel like Gwen presently doesn't have the unique voice Latour's version had, I feel the current writer doesn't quite get where she was left last time, and hasn't evolved her. She spent a year in prison after going public and it's like it never happened to her, and MJ is always so hostile towards her when she was a bit more understanding towards the end of Latour's run.
That last part i completely agree with. Latour established that the reason MJ was originally upset with Gwen was because she assumed she no showed band practice and their shows because she wasn't taking the band seriously and once MJ figured out Gwen was Spider-Wonan she eased up.
Mc Guire completely ignore that. Her Earth-65 Betty also seems less of a metal head.
Another thing that bugs me is that she has Gwen angst about 616 Gwen's death a lot, even though she didn't previously. She thought it was tragic sure, but she didn't obsess over it.
Edited by Cortez on Dec 22nd 2019 at 12:09:15 PM
I'm gonna copy/paste my thoughts on Gwen's runs from another thread (I wrote this before the last relaunch).
Latour is a not a very good writer, so the series from him comes out as mediocre to boring. He's terrible at writing teenagers/young adults, which is very bad problem when the protagonist and her friends are in that age group ("Yo Gwen, who's the fed?" still sticks out because no one speaks like that). That's why the most interesting characters of the series where all the middle aged guys (George Stacy, Matt Murdock, Frank Castle, and the little we saw of Ben Parker).
That said, it had personality. It was a series that new exactly what it was and had it's own identity, much helped by Rodriguez artwork. It knew what would make it stand out from the rest of the Spider-Man line.
Mc Guire's series, on the other hand, is objectively better written. She's a better writer than Latour, and by God, a huge improvement regarding teenagers/ya. But she decided to go into more generic superhero fare. The more "traditional" artwork on the series, although good (who doesn't like Miyasawa), completely erased the personality the book had. Now that she's moving into 616 the series has completely lost anything that made it stand out in the first place.
So you have a mediocre series but that knew how to stand out and a better written series but that it's devoid of personality.
All that said, I gotta say that the last relaunch is just meh. The storyline so far shows precisely why dragging her into 616 was a bad idea (of course the Jackal would be involved...), none of the characters introduced so far are particularly interesting, and the story really drags at points (I blame the editors more on that than Mc Guire to fit the arc on a trade).
Eh, Someone being a "good" or "not very good" writer is kinda subjective. I don't think he's great, but i wouldn't say he's bad.
And we're talking about slang from an alternate reality. And wasn't the one that asked "Who's the fed?" was Betty and it made sense for her.
Edited by Cortez on Dec 22nd 2019 at 7:01:45 AM
I find him to be a mediocre writer. The stuff I've read from him ranges from okay-ish to bad. Nothing downright insulting, but boring and forgettable, convoluted and incomprehensible in the case of his Wolverine and the X-Men, with some bad dialogue at points, specially regarding teenagers. You can see this problem too in his W&XM run (which is abysmal), he gets to write plenty of teenagers there too, and uff, awful dialogue and forced slang.
I just checked, and it was MJ who said it.
Edited by Akirakan on Dec 22nd 2019 at 7:21:08 AM
That page is great and I love the reference to Darkseid.
Surrounded by weirdoes
They got Jessica good there.
Edited by Blueace on Dec 22nd 2019 at 9:43:28 AM
Wake me up at your own risk.
×3
And his the Band were always all in on being rockstars, so it all fits. Nothing wrong with it.
Again, i feel like calling him mediocre is hyperbole and "who's the fed" is hardly something worth complaining over. Seems nitpicky to me.
Edited by Cortez on Dec 22nd 2019 at 2:43:38 PM
Very brief mentions of Spider-Girl and 2009's Real Clone Saga redux
Team Rocket Boss.
Is Ghost Spider working out for Gwen?
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
If a character's most famous act is dying then there's no point in reviving them.
eyes Barry Allen