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Today is a big day for many middle Eastern countries. A day of protest, named "the day of rage" has sparked protests in Egypt, Tunisia, Lebanon and other countries. Most of the protests have no turned violent, and people are massing to throw their leadership out of the country.
There are many powers at play in this section of the world, not the least of which is The Muslim Brotherhood, a group of extremists who are responsible for some suicide bombings and other terrorist acts. This smaller group is on the same side of the other protesters, most of whom are youth who want more freedom, and less autocracy and corruption.
How do you think this will play out, honestly?
I hope they kick out any corrupt governments, hope that the stuff going on in Europe spreads, and hope that comes to the USA as well.
What stuff in Europe?
Like severe spending cuts, national bankruptcy, nationalism, and the risk of currency collapse?
More nationalism would be nice. The rest I can leave, though.
I like patriotism. I dislike nationalism. I submit to you that these are two separate things.
I'd agree that patriotism and nationalism are two separate things, but I doubt we'd agree on the definitions for those things.
To me, nationalism is a dedication to the interests of your nation, while patriotism is lip-service and sappy displays of reverence for national symbols.
I'd say the opposite actually. just adding that nationalism tends to be militant. :V
edited 25th Jan '11 4:26:16 PM by saladofstones
So you agree, except with the words switched?
I think he got the two confused.
My point is this: Revolution does not inherently equal a better life for the people of Egypt or anyone else, and more democracy =/= more liberty.
In Europe a lot of the discontent comes from anarchists and other leftist groups. That's what I was praying more of happens, people taking to the streets against the bankster takeover in a leftist fashion, not reactionary Islam coming down.
edited 25th Jan '11 4:55:53 PM by BalloonFleet
My actual reaction◊
after I thought about it some more◊
edited 25th Jan '11 5:16:49 PM by saladofstones
>mfw you use *chan memetics
>mfw when I realize you used them in another thread
>mfw when I think you post on /new/
>mfw when i realize im going /r9k/ in this motherfucka
edited 25th Jan '11 5:34:14 PM by BalloonFleet
You go to /news/, all of your political views are now null and void.
edited 25th Jan '11 5:33:39 PM by saladofstones
>implying I go on /new/
>implying I could stomach all the complete shit on new (heck /r9k/ and /adv/ and /soc/ is enough garbage for me.)
edited 25th Jan '11 5:41:29 PM by BalloonFleet
All I have to say is "FIGHT DA POWER!" and "Don't replace mild tyrants with worse ones."
In other words, the golden rule for all revolutions, peaceful or no; don't replace a bad system with a worse one.
"...not the least of which is The Muslim Brotherhood, a group of extremists who are responsible for some suicide bombings and other terrorist acts..."
Just to point out that the Muslum Brotherhood, AFAIK, has never been responsible for any terrorist acts.
A popular uprising in the Middle East is long overdue. When it comes, it will trend toward religious conservatism, which does not have to mean an increase in terrorism. Either way, replacing secular tyranny with populist tyranny is probably an inevitable phase along the way toward some form of genuine democracy. That will be a long time coming, but with luck maybe some of us will get to see it.
I admit I'm uncertain of their current status, but they have assassinated and attempted to assassinate politicians in the past.
Source please? I'm aware of some controversy surrounding their connections to other terrorist organizations, but I wasnt aware of any direct action by the Brotherhood itself.
Right, should have known better than to say that and not provide my sources. ^_^;
I realize The Other Wiki isn't always the most reliable, so you may want to check the facts there against what you already know.
I read up on it and everything seems to indicate that its a peaceful, moderate Islamic movement. No real ties to terrorist.
I have read some things that more terrorist-centric Muslim organizations want it destroyed but then again, they fight each other over the time.
What it all adds up to, re the OP, is that in any democratic Egypt, the Muslum Brotherhood would presumably have rather large role in the new government, if not actually running candidates of their own.
The Egyptian government appears to have shut down their country's internet access in an attempt to stop protests.
Facebook and Twitter confirmed the reports for their sites. "We are aware of reports of disruption to service and have seen a drop in traffic from Egypt this morning," a Facebook spokesman said in a statement. "You may want to visit Herdict.org, a project of the Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University that offers insight into what users around the world are experiencing in terms of web accessibility."
According to Herdict.org, there were 459 reports of inaccessible sites in Egypt and 621 reports of accessible sites.
Twitter's Global PR account reported on the site that: "Egypt continues to block Twitter & has greatly diminished traffic. However, some users are using apps/proxies to successfully tweet."
Meanwhile, there were numerous reports of outages around the Web.
"A major service provider for Egypt, Italy-based Seabone, reported early Friday that there was no Internet traffic going into or out of the country after 12:30 a.m. local time," the Associated Press reported. "Associated Press reporters in Cairo were also experiencing outages."
The Los Angeles Times reported that Black Berry users were not able to reach the Internet on their devices.
RIM provided this statement when asked for comment: "We can confirm that RIM has not implemented any changes that would impact service in Egypt and that RIM's Black Berry Infrastructure has continued to be fully operational throughout the day. For questions regarding a specific network in Egypt, please contact the carrier who operates the network.
A Twitter post by Ben Wedeman, CNN senior correspondent in Cairo, around 3 p.m PDT says: "No internet, no SMS, what is next? Mobile phones and land lines? So much for stability."
The Arabist blog had mixed reports, with someone in Cairo saying Internet service was down while a foreign journalist was able to get onto the Internet Semiramis Intercontinental hotel.
Twitter representatives did not respond immediately to an e-mail request for more information.
The Internet disruptions spurred activist action. Anonymous, the group that launched distributed denial-of-service attacks on Web sites of financial institutions and others opposing Wiki Leaks last year, released a video online in which it threatened to launch DOS attacks on Egyptian government Web sites if the authorities did not curtail censorship efforts. Earlier today, five people were arrested in the U.K. in connection with those attacks.
Because Twitter has been found to be an effective communications tool during social unrest and protests — in Iran and Moldova, along with Tunisia and Egypt, more recently — it is an attractive target for governments to try to block, along with Facebook.
Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20029857-245.html#ixzz1CHzqWcGZ
edited 27th Jan '11 5:32:13 PM by Pentadragon
Craaaaap. I guess governments are learning that the internet makes a valuable tool to organize people. Shut that down, and they have to rely on less-effective methods to pass information nowadays.
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