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OriDoodle Mom Lady from East of West Relationship Status: Consider his love an honor
Jan 25th 2011 at 2:02:21 PM

Today is a big day for many middle Eastern countries. A day of protest, named "the day of rage" has sparked protests in Egypt, Tunisia, Lebanon and other countries. Most of the protests have no turned violent, and people are massing to throw their leadership out of the country.

There are many powers at play in this section of the world, not the least of which is The Muslim Brotherhood, a group of extremists who are responsible for some suicide bombings and other terrorist acts. This smaller group is on the same side of the other protesters, most of whom are youth who want more freedom, and less autocracy and corruption.

How do you think this will play out, honestly?

Doodles
BalloonFleet MASTER-DEBATER from Chicago, IL, USA
MASTER-DEBATER
Jan 25th 2011 at 3:21:43 PM

I hope they kick out any corrupt governments, hope that the stuff going on in Europe spreads, and hope that comes to the USA as well.

WHASSUP....... ....with lolis!
saladofstones :V from Happy Place
:V
Jan 25th 2011 at 3:32:19 PM

What stuff in Europe?

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.
Jan 25th 2011 at 4:14:03 PM

Like severe spending cuts, national bankruptcy, nationalism, and the risk of currency collapse?

Wanderhome The Joke-Master Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
The Joke-Master
Jan 25th 2011 at 4:16:16 PM

[up] More nationalism would be nice. The rest I can leave, though.

saladofstones :V from Happy Place
:V
Jan 25th 2011 at 4:18:15 PM

I like patriotism. I dislike nationalism. I submit to you that these are two separate things.

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.
Wanderhome The Joke-Master Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
The Joke-Master
Jan 25th 2011 at 4:20:50 PM

[up] I'd agree that patriotism and nationalism are two separate things, but I doubt we'd agree on the definitions for those things.

To me, nationalism is a dedication to the interests of your nation, while patriotism is lip-service and sappy displays of reverence for national symbols.

saladofstones :V from Happy Place
:V
Jan 25th 2011 at 4:25:52 PM

I'd say the opposite actually. just adding that nationalism tends to be militant. :V

edited 25th Jan '11 4:26:16 PM by saladofstones

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.
Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy
DUMB
Jan 25th 2011 at 4:27:30 PM

So you agree, except with the words switched?

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
saladofstones :V from Happy Place
:V
Jan 25th 2011 at 4:32:42 PM

I think he got the two confused.

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.
Jan 25th 2011 at 4:42:36 PM

I hope they kick out any corrupt governments, hope that the stuff going on in Europe spreads, and hope that comes to the USA as well.
I feel like that's a complete simplification of the effects of revolutions. Like I said in the Tunisia thread, Mubarak may be an autocrat in all but name, but he's far preferable to the Muslim Brotherhood. Does Mubarak restrict the rights of his citizens? Yes. Would the Muslim Brotherhood restrict them even more? Yes. And yet, the Muslim Brotherhood, which has carried out terrorist actions, is a major (outlawed, so far as I know) opposition party in Egypt.

My point is this: Revolution does not inherently equal a better life for the people of Egypt or anyone else, and more democracy =/= more liberty.

BalloonFleet MASTER-DEBATER from Chicago, IL, USA
MASTER-DEBATER
Jan 25th 2011 at 4:49:01 PM

[up]In Europe a lot of the discontent comes from anarchists and other leftist groups. That's what I was praying more of happens, people taking to the streets against the bankster takeover in a leftist fashion, not reactionary Islam coming down.

edited 25th Jan '11 4:55:53 PM by BalloonFleet

WHASSUP....... ....with lolis!
saladofstones :V from Happy Place
:V
Jan 25th 2011 at 5:16:08 PM

Bankster takeover?

My actual reaction

after I thought about it some more

edited 25th Jan '11 5:16:49 PM by saladofstones

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.
BalloonFleet MASTER-DEBATER from Chicago, IL, USA
MASTER-DEBATER
Jan 25th 2011 at 5:32:05 PM

>mfw you use *chan memetics

>mfw when I realize you used them in another thread

>mfw when I think you post on /new/

>mfw when i realize im going /r9k/ in this motherfucka

edited 25th Jan '11 5:34:14 PM by BalloonFleet

WHASSUP....... ....with lolis!
saladofstones :V from Happy Place
:V
Jan 25th 2011 at 5:33:20 PM

You go to /news/, all of your political views are now null and void.

edited 25th Jan '11 5:33:39 PM by saladofstones

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.
BalloonFleet MASTER-DEBATER from Chicago, IL, USA
MASTER-DEBATER
Jan 25th 2011 at 5:37:03 PM

>implying I go on /new/

>implying I could stomach all the complete shit on new (heck /r9k/ and /adv/ and /soc/ is enough garbage for me.)

edited 25th Jan '11 5:41:29 PM by BalloonFleet

WHASSUP....... ....with lolis!
GameChainsaw The Shadows Devour You. from sunshine and rainbows!
The Shadows Devour You.
Jan 25th 2011 at 5:43:25 PM

All I have to say is "FIGHT DA POWER!" and "Don't replace mild tyrants with worse ones."

In other words, the golden rule for all revolutions, peaceful or no; don't replace a bad system with a worse one.

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.
DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
Jan 25th 2011 at 6:06:02 PM

"...not the least of which is The Muslim Brotherhood, a group of extremists who are responsible for some suicide bombings and other terrorist acts..."

Just to point out that the Muslum Brotherhood, AFAIK, has never been responsible for any terrorist acts.

A popular uprising in the Middle East is long overdue. When it comes, it will trend toward religious conservatism, which does not have to mean an increase in terrorism. Either way, replacing secular tyranny with populist tyranny is probably an inevitable phase along the way toward some form of genuine democracy. That will be a long time coming, but with luck maybe some of us will get to see it.

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."
Jan 25th 2011 at 6:44:33 PM

[up]I admit I'm uncertain of their current status, but they have assassinated and attempted to assassinate politicians in the past.

DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
Jan 26th 2011 at 3:44:16 PM

Source please? I'm aware of some controversy surrounding their connections to other terrorist organizations, but I wasnt aware of any direct action by the Brotherhood itself.

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."
Jan 26th 2011 at 4:09:00 PM

Right, should have known better than to say that and not provide my sources. ^_^;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Muslim_Brotherhood_in_Egypt_(1939-1954)

I realize The Other Wiki isn't always the most reliable, so you may want to check the facts there against what you already know.

saladofstones :V from Happy Place
:V
Jan 26th 2011 at 4:10:13 PM

I read up on it and everything seems to indicate that its a peaceful, moderate Islamic movement. No real ties to terrorist.

I have read some things that more terrorist-centric Muslim organizations want it destroyed but then again, they fight each other over the time.

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.
DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
Jan 27th 2011 at 8:32:29 AM

What it all adds up to, re the OP, is that in any democratic Egypt, the Muslum Brotherhood would presumably have rather large role in the new government, if not actually running candidates of their own.

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."
Pentadragon The Blank from Alternia
Jan 27th 2011 at 5:31:23 PM

The Egyptian government appears to have shut down their country's internet access in an attempt to stop protests.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20029857-245.html

Amid a third day of anti-government protests, Internet outages and disruptions were reported today in Egypt, according to reports.

Facebook and Twitter confirmed the reports for their sites. "We are aware of reports of disruption to service and have seen a drop in traffic from Egypt this morning," a Facebook spokesman said in a statement. "You may want to visit Herdict.org, a project of the Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University that offers insight into what users around the world are experiencing in terms of web accessibility."

According to Herdict.org, there were 459 reports of inaccessible sites in Egypt and 621 reports of accessible sites.

Twitter's Global PR account reported on the site that: "Egypt continues to block Twitter & has greatly diminished traffic. However, some users are using apps/proxies to successfully tweet."

Meanwhile, there were numerous reports of outages around the Web.

"A major service provider for Egypt, Italy-based Seabone, reported early Friday that there was no Internet traffic going into or out of the country after 12:30 a.m. local time," the Associated Press reported. "Associated Press reporters in Cairo were also experiencing outages."

The Los Angeles Times reported that Black Berry users were not able to reach the Internet on their devices.

RIM provided this statement when asked for comment: "We can confirm that RIM has not implemented any changes that would impact service in Egypt and that RIM's Black Berry Infrastructure has continued to be fully operational throughout the day. For questions regarding a specific network in Egypt, please contact the carrier who operates the network.

A Twitter post by Ben Wedeman, CNN senior correspondent in Cairo, around 3 p.m PDT says: "No internet, no SMS, what is next? Mobile phones and land lines? So much for stability."

The Arabist blog had mixed reports, with someone in Cairo saying Internet service was down while a foreign journalist was able to get onto the Internet Semiramis Intercontinental hotel.

Twitter representatives did not respond immediately to an e-mail request for more information.

The Internet disruptions spurred activist action. Anonymous, the group that launched distributed denial-of-service attacks on Web sites of financial institutions and others opposing Wiki Leaks last year, released a video online in which it threatened to launch DOS attacks on Egyptian government Web sites if the authorities did not curtail censorship efforts. Earlier today, five people were arrested in the U.K. in connection with those attacks.

Because Twitter has been found to be an effective communications tool during social unrest and protests — in Iran and Moldova, along with Tunisia and Egypt, more recently — it is an attractive target for governments to try to block, along with Facebook.

Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20029857-245.html#ixzz1CHzqWcGZ

edited 27th Jan '11 5:32:13 PM by Pentadragon

pvtnum11 OMG NO NOSECONES from Kerbin low orbit Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
Jan 27th 2011 at 5:39:48 PM

Craaaaap. I guess governments are learning that the internet makes a valuable tool to organize people. Shut that down, and they have to rely on less-effective methods to pass information nowadays.

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

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