Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Missing the point.

Rebellion is on Go T level on the grounds of how long its taken for that promised update to happen…and never showed up.

8.5 years as of this post.

Remember, that burning turd of an ending was pushed by Shinbo specifically for continuing the series (Urobuchi wanted a clear definitive final story.

The point of this comparison is to dunk on Shinbo for both Rebellion’s ending and for the reason of said ending not showing up.

Maybe the best thing for the franchise would be for Shinbo to admit he screwed up -> Release Rebellion Story “Urobuchi Cut -> cut swaps the final 15 minutes for Urobuchi’s original planned ending -> retcon making that ending the canon ending -> perfect thematic ending for the franchise as originally intended.

Edited by magnum12 on Apr 26th 2022 at 8:48:22 AM

...Was this a popular reaction when Puella Magi Madoka Magica: Rebellion first came out, this, um, distaste, to put it as lightly as possible?

Edit: Seriously, I'm starting to get Star Wars sequel hatedom flashbacks here.

Edited by fredhot16 on Apr 26th 2022 at 11:25:41 AM

The reaction was more "The Last Jedi" than "Rise of Skywalker" AKA: It was HIGHLY divisive. I still wish they had decided to just end the original Madoka storyline, but Rebellion is a good movie and I'm interested in where it's going for there.

The general consensus now is that Rebellion Story is a good movie with a GOD AWFUL last 15 minutes that unfortunately taints the entire film. Mother of all Ending Aversion scenarios.

Real shame too given that the english dub of the movie was considered one of the best english dubs of 2016.

Back in 2013, that ending was the biggest shit storm in anime of the year with the controversy it caused. It got bad enough to the point where during a US showing of the sub, the discontent was openly displayed directly to Studio Shaft executives in attendance.

The ending was universally reviled by critics. A list of the some of the more memorable comments in said reviews (wording may not be exact, but it is close).

1. Rebellions ending is like taking a sledgehammer to a masterpiece ice sculpture instead of letting it gracefully melt (refering to the Madoka Magica franchise).

2. The ending is some of the most mean spirited 15 minutes in anime.

The longer the continuation takes to happen, the more justified the hatedom towards Rebellion’s ending becomes (given the continuation was the reason for said ending). Hence the comparisons to R.R. Martin’s Dragons.

When I said “universally reviled”, it was specifically what the critics said about the ending (factually, the ending was indeed heavily panned by critics).

“general consensus” means majority, not 100%. ie general consensus being the ending is the worst part of the whole film to the point where it taints the movie as a whole.

Edited by magnum12 on Apr 26th 2022 at 2:24:56 AM

The ending is still controversial sure, but it is absolutely not universally hated. Personally it's grown on me a lot since I've come to the conclusion that the anime's ending wasn't nearly as happy as it presented itself at the time, which Homura certainly realized upon further reflection.

Yeah I couldn’t call the ending of Rebellion universally reviled by any stretch of the imagination.

Do you have any specific reviews to point to?

Also, do you have any sources to show Urobuchi doesn't like this ending?

I agree that the TV anime is a self-contained series (i.e. Rebellion was not necessary, but I don't think it's bad.

Edited by minseok42 on Apr 26th 2022 at 10:25:13 PM

Sounds like a lot of “Citation Needed”. And that’s not what “universally” means, or at the very least, that’s not the impression you’re giving.

Eh. Wouldnt be the first time I disagreed with critics. I feel like the ending elevated the movie for me.

Edited by Zeromaeus on Apr 26th 2022 at 10:50:18 AM

I don't believe pundits in general, but especially anime 'pundits' because when their frame of references are usually from shounen. I once saw a review shitting on Perfect Blue because they obviously didn't get the idol culture and just dismissed it as a fetish story with bad artstyle (because '90 anime). While /a/ is a cesspool filled with assholes, I often understand when someone being contrarian about Rebellion, they always got unanimously replied with "Year 202X, and still doesn't get Rebellion."

I love the ending, it feels like the natural conclusion to Homura's arc that she'd decide that Madoka had to even be saved from herself.

We just need another show or movie to actually explore the consequences of that kind of decision.

Kaiten's announcement had just have its first anniversary, and it's still in development jail, but I'm used with waiting because Girls und Panzer only having one (movie quality, tho) episode every one and half year.

The problem is that while the ending of Rebellion feels like a natural ending point for Homura's character, it doesn't feel like a natural ending point for the movie we just watched. If the whole movie had built up toward the ending, that'd be one thing, but it absolutely does. As it is, it feels like two different story pitches that someone decided to combine by just stapling one to the end of the other despite the fact that they don't fit together at all.

After several years, Magia Record finally got an Oriko Magica event. Before hearing about this event, I considered Oriko to be quite interesting for her motive and backstory. How do you think the event's story would end?

Probably in a way that wraps up Oriko as a narrative loose end without killing her, with no meaningful problems for Kamihama since it's happening before everyone else shows up in Arc Two.

Speaking of which, I want to ask if people here are familiar with Arc 2 enough to help me with my crossover concept?

So, part 2 of the event dropped and there are some summaries of how the end went. A cut down version of the summary of the ending is:

After switching from targeting Madoka to Mitama due to seeing her wish and the potential outcome. After failing to isolate Mitama to kill due to Mikazuka, Ka Mo Re, and Kanagi not being fooled by Oriko's decoys and waiting in Mitama's shop expecting Kirika to kill her, while having Rena transform into Mitama, Oriko and Kirika run away to replan. They return and attack Mitama's shop, intending to lure them out to an area where they can counter their numbers.

The two get them where they want them and low on magic Kirika commits herself to becoming a Witch to help Oriko. Instead she Doppels to her and Oriko's confusion and takes out Mikazuka, leaving just Yachiyo and Kanagi to fight them. But her Doppel fades away and she gets knocked out. Kanagi and Yachiyo demand Oriko surrender, with Yachiyo commenting on how Oriko's girlfriend is the better fighter.

Oriko is corned by Kanagi and just before they can win an unconscious Kirika gets back up and continues fighting to defend Oriko and starts getting wrecked by Yachiyo and Kanagi, terrifying Oriko as she realizes Kirika is her whole world and their relationship was what she'd always been looking for. Instead of Doppeling like she'd been about to, Oriko transforms into her Final Version alt, declaring she'll protect Kirika and that she's not just a pawn to her but the one she loves and proceeds to take out Yachiyo and Kanagi with The Power of Love. (Not even joking, the term she uses to refer to her is apparently one that's almost exclusively reserved for romantic partners)

No one left to stop her Oriko approaches Mitama and realizes the two of them aren't so different. She sees two contradictory visions, one where all the Magical Girls of Kamihama are happy that Mitama could return to being the Coordinator and one one where Mitama admits that the more she resists her wish, the more dangerous it becomes, and that if she fulfills her wish, and Kamihama is destroyed, then the future might be happier. Oriko has a realization, and tells Mitama that just like Kirika is the world to her, the magical girls of Kamihama are hers. Mitama asks if she saw something, and Oriko tells her she saw a bit of the future. At that, Mitama asks Oriko if she (Mitama) looked happy. Oriko realizes that she just wanted to be happy too, and that if Mitamaa's willing to die, it's to protect her world.

Oriko detransforms. Oriko tells her that as long as Mitama doesn't threaten her world, she doesn't have to kill her, and they're alike in that they just want to protect their world. At this, Mitama says she's probably right. Oriko realizes she has no reason to fight anymore, but doesn't know how to make amends. Mitama suggests she start by helping fix the shop and move everyone inside.

Later, inside Mitama's shop, Oriko and Kirika give their apologies. Iroha accepts their apologies, and asks them to apologize to everyone else that was affected. Oriko asks if that's enough, and Iroha says that they might not accept it, but all she asks is that Oriko and Kirika not to do this again. Oriko and Kirika look at each other, and Kirika asks Oriko if she's okay with that. Oriko says it's not for her to say, she's just worried that Iroha will be caught unprepared. Iroha says she doesn't want to fight if they can come to an understanding, as they're all magical girls with the same destiny. Oriko and Kirika look at each other again, and Oriko says that it's sweet, but it's the kind of sweetness that may save the world, leaving Iroha exasperated. They apologize again, Oriko tells Iroha thank you, and they leave.

Back at Oriko's, Oriko makes her sponge cake right for the first time. She thinks back to what she's done, and that she can't erase it, she will hold on to it forever, and that it may come back to threaten her world. Taking a bite out of her cake without slicing it, to Kirika's delight, she says to herself "I've finally found my place in the world, and I'm going to cherish it."

Really makes you wonder if the author [of either the event or the Oriko manga] took a look at Sailor Moon and asked, but what if the lesbians remained antagonists

Anyway I took to reading up on Ashen Revolution to get some details on a specific NPC. I want to get some things straight.

Folklore happened because the masquerade was broken in a certain town, a witch attack happened that caused mass death at a festival. The equal and opposite actions were two factions, one that claimed ally ship to the dwindling meguka, and another that jumped to the semi-logical conclusions and though puella magi themselves should be purged. The groups eventually reconcile only for devils to come popping out of the machine and kill the entire advocacy faction. One little girl contracts to save the one who hasn't died yet...only to be met with bitter resentment that said child only thought about saving her instead of undoing the accident and burned that bridge (I actually kinda except said friend to join the eradicators in the future).

Meanwhile Touka's uncle pops in finding out about Yukimi's unique circumstances and gets caught up in this, speculates that magical girls are akin to mitochondria for the universe and that as a result it will act to keep the masquerade no matter the cost? Kyubey then pops in to tell them about Kamihara because of course they would and then Mr. Satome hands the girls what is basiclaly a Doomsday Clock as he and the last 4 magical girls in the area fears that actually committing meguka genocide might be the best possible course of action.

Is that right, because I get the feeling this is one of the darkest things to come out of the entire franchise.

Only have secondhand knowledge but I believe it's mostly correct, except it's ambiguous if there was actually anything unnatural about the accident that wrecked their plan, and Touka's uncle was there for a bit before that. They believe it was the result of that theory being true but there's nothing actually saying anything one way or the other and even Kyubey I believe says he has no evidence whatsoever to point to it being true or false.

Oh, and the girl who contracts there had been a recurring character throughout part 2 if you were unfamiliar with her.

Edited by doineedaname on May 17th 2022 at 9:23:32 AM

The way you say it make me slightly confused, but I think I get it. The one I need to correct is that yes, the pocket watch is actually just an ordinary watch, given by her friend who died in the accident, that Rabi turned into a doomsday clock with her personal magic. Also, the girl who got revived by the wish becomes the head of meguca lynching mob after the previous guy turned pretty much insane from witnessing the accident.

Edited by AlaAlba on May 17th 2022 at 8:57:38 PM

I was, but not completely. I know she was involved with PB kidnapping Ui and that she was Folklore's mole in that group. In fact she's the reason I checked out the story (in advance at least, for reasons involving the crossover idea I'm working on [that I'm still looking for people versed in Arc 2 to hash things out with])

Related questions: Why didn't Folklore plant a mole in the Magia Union? I get that there is four of them, but Puella Care is committed to their neutrality enough that they wouldn't need a mole for them and Rabi does have a connection to them via Tatsuke and Nayuta being Touka's relatives

Also do you see the eradication faction being future big picture antagonist after Arc 2?

I see thanks for the clarification Saves me invoking Adaptational Villainy with that girl :P

I'm assuming you meant to type "Didn't" in the first sentence?

Edited by MorningStar1337 on May 17th 2022 at 7:58:41 AM

The reason why Folklore did put a mole in the Union is pretty explicit; Folklore consider the Union's ideal the most correct in term of saving the world and magical girls, but also the most precarious for multiple reasons. Folklore didn't try to sabotage directly with the Union because Folklore actually wants the Union to win the Kimochi War and prove Folklore is wrong with their hypothesis. However, as seen with the moles in other factions, the personal judgment of individual member when they're inside the factions ended up unwittingly making a lot of things worse. They're basically operating as 'researchers who would only passively observe the wildlife in their natural habitat', then irresponsibly manipulate the natural habitat they observe out of self-righteousness on what they think is the 'correct' habitat, but bail out and claim no responsibility when the situation gets very out of control like with Neo Magius.

Edited by AlaAlba on May 17th 2022 at 9:20:43 PM

I'm not familiar with the game, but is this the reason they're going with to explain how the masquerade is still up after all these years even though logically it should've been broken in thousands of ways?

Folklore proposed a theory that, as you said - the masquerade should have been broken already, is because the universe makes it so. Magical girls have no way to make an organized effort to keep the masquerade and they often have no time to care about it because their lifespan is so short, so it's not the magical girls who keep their existence a secret. The government, despite paying to get their wishes made by the girls, also has no hand on it because they're ultimately ignorant on the exact mechanic of how their wishes came true.

Touka especially goes on in this regard; she rationalizes that if the government is truly behind the masquerade, they would falsify the data put forward to the public about the amount of disappearance and death of young girls. But they don't; the data they put shows that, "Hey, there's suspiciously huge number of disappearances here. You might wanna know." and the public just for some reason doesn't put 2-on-2 together. Touka then concludes that neither magical girls nor the government are behind the masquerade, and her uncle is the one who forward the theory that it's the world who made it that way. Touka (and her cousin, too) thinks her uncle's theory is nonsense, or at least misunderstanding of reality, to this moment tho.

Touka's uncle in particular went to France to study Tart's instance of massive magical battle. There were thousands of witnesses seeing a gigantic living castle with Isabeau-faced caterpillars serving at as its legs, yet the story faded to legend. If the story is immortalized, then by that logic, Isabeau should be more demonized than simply being a particularly ambitious queen mother. But the thing that made him so sure is that when he's ready to write his second book about his finding, he suddenly fell really ill for no reason. He thinks this is the instance where the universe trying to kill him, and his death would be dismissed as a simple misfortune because you don't really question death by natural causes. It's still ambiguous whether this is a proof that he's right or if it's just him being paranoid.

Edited by AlaAlba on May 17th 2022 at 11:46:12 PM

Man, I have no idea what ya'll are talking about.