Puella Magi Madoka Magica

Edit: You know what? I refuse to engage anymore.

Edited by fredhot16 on Feb 6th 2020 at 12:39:41 PM

Madoka tells the deus-ex-machina of the ending in the second episode.

Madoka doesn't undergo any character development. She's already Magical Girl Jesus from Episode 1 to Episode 12. She's already what the writers believe a girl should be: no ambition in life, not proactive in the slightest, no value in her own existence, and judgemental of all sinners (read: other girls). That's Madoka from minute one to the ending.

the animation captures the spirit of the original series

IMO, anyway

So Magia Record has an English dub coming out and the cast list was revealed. I'm excited, and I can't wait to watch it once I finish the Japanese version! Though I admit, I'm a little leary of Kira Buckland being cast as Iroha. I mean, don't get me wrong, she'll probably do a great job given the right direction, but I was kind of hoping someone completely new would be cast, such as Lizzie Freeman (Cardinal from SAO Alicization) or Michelle Marie (Crested Ibis in Kemono Friends). Kira already has a ton of work under her belt, so why not give some new people a try? But for all I know, maybe they'll get cast as other characters or something further down the line. That's just me. I probably shouldn't be complaining anyway.

Kemono Friends' dub is really good, and Crested Ibis (along with Tsuchinoko) are my fav because how close they are to the original voices while also maintaining the personality of the Friend. I watched the blooper and it's even funnier.

I agree that Magia Record uses a lot of (or maybe too many) familiar names, but I think it's mostly because they want to play it safe. A lot of good shows get messed up by bad dub, and it really sours my experience with the show.

An interesting thing to note about the Magia Record dub is that it'll be union.

Agreed. The bloopers are comedy gold. Preserve them forever! I can understand wanting to play it safe, so that makes sense. But I'm sure the dub will turn out good.

Awesome!

Edited by TwilightPegasus on Feb 6th 2020 at 8:41:49 AM

In terms of how good Magia Record is, I personally enjoy it a lot both as a big Madoka fan and as someone who plays the mobage a lot, but I do have to say that if you come into it expecting Madoka Season 2 then you'll be disappointed. It's a different kind of show, less of a character drama and more of a mystery.

@healinfine, you seem to be grossly oversimplifying Sayaka's entire character arc into "Sayaka is unsuccessful in finding love so she becomes a monster", when that simply isn't even close to the whole story. Sayaka losing out on love is a part of it, yes, but her tragedy is more focused on her failing to live up to the impossible ideals she set up for herself when that simply wasn't possible, and drowning under the weight of those ideals.

Hitomi beating out Sayaka for Kyousuke's love hurt her, yes, but what hurt Sayaka more was her very brief thought that maybe she shouldn't have saved Hitomi. It's a pretty awful thought, but I think it's normal to be frustrated over something like that, and the fact that Sayaka caught that and was ashamed shows that she's not the kind of person who would actively engage in those kind of thoughts. It wasn't about her losing out on love, it was about Sayaka not being able to accept that she had her own "selfish" motives alongside wanting to help people.

Also the point of Mami's death was that she got caught off-guard, which Homura had warned her about. The "Mami stands there and lets herself get headchomped" bit is actually slow-motion.

I'm just stunned that you can get "Sayaka turned into a monster and died as punishment for proactively seeking love" out of any of this.

The person who proactively sought love is Hitomi. Hitomi even gave Sayaka the chance to step up, which Sayaka blew off. Hitomi set her sights on Kyousuke, went after him directly, got the guy she wanted, and then exited the series happier than any of the main characters will ever get to be. The end.

If you want positive representation of girls proactively chasing boys, Hitomi's your gal.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 6th 2020 at 1:18:05 PM

Yes, because Mami wasn't shown literally minutes prior to possess superhuman speed and reflexes.

And no, "being a good person" is not an impossible task. People realizing they're not perfect doesn't make them turn into monsters. Sayaka's entire character is what the male writers of the show think girls who follow all the positive virtues of the genre deserve.

But it's also interesting that "striving to be a good person" is treated as impossible when it comes to Sayaka, yet Madoka is literally meant to be Magical Girl Jesus. Probably because Sayaka was too selfish, what with having aspirations and a life and all that.

Edited by healinfine on Feb 6th 2020 at 1:33:57 AM

I don't get how you can come up with the 'Urobuchi is a misogynist because he wrote the main characters dumb' when there's no guy character deeply written to make a comparison with.

Unless you count his previous work Fate/Zero, in which almost all guy characters are a bunch of dumb thugs who always go for violence as answer and exit the story as villains, leaving their kids to fix their messes.

Urobuchi isn't a misogynist; he has fetish for despair falling on his characters

Or you count Kamen Rider Gaim, where Urobuchi has all kinds of sympathy for the desires and aspirations of male characters. (And which is still filled with gross treatment of its female characters.)

Madoka had the patience snd good fortune to make her wish with all the facts. Sakyaka caved under Kyubey's pressure, albeit largely due to Kyousuke's breakdown.

And Gaim has a character, arguably the deutragonist, who did what you wrongly accused Sayaka of doing, but in a much more blatantly apperent and villainous manner. At least Sayaka doesn't forcibly own Kyousuke to stoke her own ego, then goes nuclear when it doesn't work that way, fockin' Micchy.

Well I finally managed to get Chisato in 24 pulls (14 tickets and a multi's worth of gems) as opposed to her debut banner where I spent 1000 or so gems and and got nothing (well besides the hand her memoria grapsed and a Sword).

Regarding the dub thing. It seems kinda strange that Funi is doing this when (based on the assumption of it being on Netflix) TOS was dubbed by a different company.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Feb 6th 2020 at 3:48:05 AM

They don't have the resources to outsource it to a separate company. They need the distributor to do the dub themselves.

In short, the creators aren't making any money from the property and Funimation is hoping they can get as much out of it before the bubble pops mid-season.

I feel like you aren't arguing in good faith here man.

I do feel like Sayaka existed mainly to punish one of the more idealistic characters, as is Urobuchi's jam at the time, hence why she not only makes the choices she does, but also why she is destined to always turn into a witch if she becomes a magical girl, which a part of me will always find bullshit.

I mean, there are probably reasons why this makes sense (she's not good at it, and due to her issues and the short time frame along with all the other stuff, everything will start going pear shaped super quick) but it seems odd to me that among the many things that are so solidly set in stone, he specifically singles out that one.

I'm calling bullshit forever, but I'm clearly biased.

All you need to acknowledge is that the Deus ex Machina ending brings everyone back to life for no reason.

Except Sayaka. For no reason.

Because she represents the kind of girl the magical girl genre exists to empower, and whom Gen Urobuchi and the rest of Madoka's male creators can't stand the existence of.

Just think of how insecure and fragile in their masculinity men have to be to take something meant to entertain little girls and encourage positive values, and turn it into something to amuse grown men by depicting them as a bunch of shallow, naive idiots who suffer and die horrifically.

Edited by healinfine on Feb 6th 2020 at 4:31:39 AM

Uh. Point of order, there is a reason.

Mami was killed by a Witch. But there are no Witches.

Kyoko sacrificed her life to kill a Witch. But there are no Witches.

Sayaka melted down, refused to heal her Soul Gem of its corruption, and ultimately self-destructed. There were no Witches involved in her death.

Except there are no witches.

It's almost like Madoka Magica's ending is complete nonsense.

There's no reason other than "the men who wrote this story think girls deserve to burn in hell for pursuing love."

Edited by healinfine on Feb 6th 2020 at 4:35:51 AM

HITOMI! SHE LIVES, SHE'S O.K AND HAPPY WITH VIOLIN-BOY!

I know I said I'm not going to engage anymore but this was explicitly pointed out to you before! On this page!

Edited by fredhot16 on Feb 6th 2020 at 4:38:54 AM

Hot take incoming: the commonly-seen insistence that women and female characters must always be strong and cannot experience serious hardship is itself a form of misogyny, because it plays into ancient tropes about protecting women and not allowing them to express their own needs and desires. "Strong" too often means "not needy, low-maintenance."

None of that gives a free pass to all media that treats women badly, of course, but you're painting Madoka Magica with a pretty broad brush here. I would argue that all the main characters are good, strong, and proactive—they're all trying their hardest to do the right thing, in their own ways. But being humans, they are also imperfect, and taking part in a tragedy, so many things go awry in ironic ways. Even so, they find a way to achieve something close to a happy ending, in the most difficult of circumstances. That doesn't seem like weakness and fragility to me.

This show isn't without issues—tragedy or not, the Bury Your Gays / Hide Your Lesbians stuff is a bit troublesome—but I don't think the "it's hopelessly sexist and hates women" line of reasoning is going to get you very far.

Girls being strong in fiction...plays into tropes about women needing protection?

The whole magical girl genre doesn't treat its heroines as perfect. What it does is give them the simple human capability to better themselves, to sometimes fail but learn how to overcome where they faltered.

Madoka is about girls being treated as less than human, to the point of not even attempting to avoid impending death or disparaging the very idea of valuing their own lives or their friends' lives.

There really shouldn't be anything to discuss about the morality of fiction that depicts a girl going insane over a boy and then needing to be killed like a rabid animal.

Edited by healinfine on Feb 6th 2020 at 4:57:18 AM

Bury Your Gays? IDK if it really does THAT. Psycho Lesbians on the other hand...

Edited by RhymeBeat on Feb 6th 2020 at 7:55:18 AM