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I still go for Space Invaders as either a stage, an assist trophy or a third party retro character considering it made what games are nowadays.
It helps that Miyamoto was influenced by the game, which means without Space Invaders, Mario probably wouldn't exist.
And here you have me who wouldn't mind nongame characters as long as I think they fit the game enough (Like, I probably wouldn't see someone like Shrek fitting in, but someone like Goku or Luke Skywalker I can see fitting in a bit).
I think I just don't mind character inclusions too much.
@Irene: The Video Game crash was caused by a lot of factors, the Pac-Man game and ET game being both pretty minor factors actually. I can't quite recall what they were. I was at a Q&A with Howard Scott Warshaw (cool guy, by the way) and he mentioned a few of the reasons, one being that Atari was failing to adapt.
He did make a joke though that every organization he works with dies.
I mean, how big of an impact has Dragon Ball had on gaming, really? Sure, the games have sold a ton, but have any of them ever done anything so innovative that elicited a response from the rest of the gaming industry?
Metal Gear (especially Solid), Sonic the Hedgehog, Mega Man, and Final Fantasy were all standard-bearers in their respective genres. PAC-MAN was very important to gaming as a whole. Classic Castlevania doesn't have quite as many imitators, but SOTN helped spark a rise in Metroidvanias. Bayonetta is a very special case.
Dragon Ball games have mostly stuck to already-existing genre conventions, and not many non-anime games have ever really drawn from them. Raging Blast did influence a lot of future anime arena fighters, but I don't think it did much for arena fighters outside of the anime sphere.
Now, Goku's not a terrible fit for SSB, as far as anime characters go. I can see it happening eventually. Just, maybe not this decade. It'll happen in the late 2020s or early 2030s, when Sakurai is no longer at the helm and Nintendo is out of ideas.
Iím against non-game characters entirely just because there are so many actual game characters who are perfectly worthy and usable. Regardless of how big of an impact Goku or anyone else made in games, I canít help but feel that would be the biggest slap in the face to pretty much any game characterís fanbase to see someone who didnít even start in games get in first.
And I canít realistically see Sakurai or Nintendo ever running out of game characters to add because a ton of new candidates have been introduced every time a new Smash comes out. Thereís not going to stop being worthy game characters until there stops being games period.
Besides, slippery slope it may be, but this fandom would ABSOLUTELY treat it as anything goes and Iím not prepared to start dealing with Naruto and Spongebob requests popping up left and right.
Edited by Berserker88 on Oct 11th 2018 at 5:40:47 AM
People ALREADY seriously request Shrek. Donít try to tell me that including Goku wouldnít make this worse. This fandom gets real stupid when asked what their dream roster is.
Frankly, weíre reaching the point of diminishing returns on even third parties. Thereís only a handful left who I could see reasonably making the cut.
Seriously requesting Shrek? Shrek as a whole has become a massive meme. If it involves him, nothing in the discussion is remotely serious, like those people bringing up Boss Baby.
Edited by Elbruno on Oct 11th 2018 at 10:02:19 AM
ďWhat? Are you doing?! IN MY SMASH?!Ē
x5 This is true. The vast majority of Dragon Ball games are mediocre at best with the best of them being incredibly recent.
I don't think that's true. There have been about as many good Dragon Ball games throughout the past as there have been in the present, but the PSX and PS 2 eras - when most western fans came to be aware of the series - had a glut of shovelware that marred perception of it.
But I do agree that none of them are particularly innovative, creative, or important to gaming history. I don't even think their being lucrative licensed games is a good thing to point to, as there have been other, more influential licensed titles like Capcom's Versus series, warts and all, which Fighterz not so subtlety ripped off.
Weíre running low on characters who could realistically make the cut in THIS game, which is just fine since weíre not expecting many more anyway. But by the time a new Smash rolls around, probably after a pretty generous break, thereís going to be plenty of new blood out there to fill the roster. I just donít think weíre ever going to reach the point where they go, ďGee, looks like weíre out of viable game characters, letís see about that Goku fellow.Ē
To me, even obscure game characters take priority over non-game characters. So far at least, Sakurai seems to agree.
Elbruno: And we saw what happened with Waluigi. People got legitimately upset that the character who started as a meme request didnít get in.
Itís not a huge contingent, but I promise you itís there.
For the record, I was talking about third-parties only there. Thereís not an endless supply of them who could or should be in Smash Bros. Nintendoís own properties are very different because the series is ostensibly for them in the first place. As long as Nintendo makes new games there will be new characters for Smash Bros.
Edited by BadWolf21 on Oct 11th 2018 at 8:55:46 AM
I honestly hope that one of the last characters revealed trumps everybody's expectations about Ken and Incineroar and turns out to be one of those obscure Nintendo classics.
Not to make people salty or whatever, but because Smash has always had characters like that, and they're always great. It feels like this title's been big on granting fan requests so maybe that's not what we're getting, but it'd make me happy to see they're not all about bowing to demands.
The only other character I really want at this point is Geno, so Iíd be up for that. Who needs a fulfilled expectation when you can have a pleasant surprise? (Pleasant to some, at least.)
Gotcha. And yeah, definitely not a lot of new third parties they could add, though a fair amount of additional characters for existing ones should they go that route.
But I should point out that Waluigi started as a legitimate request, then became a meme, not the other way around. And thereís still many people who legit want him, including myself, though Iíve accepted his exclusion.
Pretty much, yeah - Waluigi can't be considered a "meme character" in the same way Shrek is. I'm one of the people who genuinely wanted/want him in Smash (I've also been wanting a Waluigi game for years) myself
Well, thereís always Psycho Waluigi.
Edited by Berserker88 on Oct 11th 2018 at 7:51:04 AM
I've been wondering when Waluigi would be a fighter since Wario stopped being a Mario alt color. He's never been super high on my wishlist, so I don't mind AT Waluigi, but it just made sense to me for him to be in eventually to round out the Mario sibling/cousin/"evil counterpart" thing.
I might have to check that fangame out now that the link works. Looks amusing.
Edited by BlitzTrain on Oct 11th 2018 at 8:01:14 AM
Wario Ware Wario doesn't fill the evil counterpart role...
Like the others said. Waluigi is a legit request that turned into a meme after getting the shaft a third time, not the other way around.
Checking reaction vids shows quite a lot of viewers being dissapointed when Waluigi showed up as an assist once again. Hell, I know I've wanted him in since Smash 4
Edited by Elbruno on Oct 11th 2018 at 12:08:14 PM
If Waluigi was a fighter, do you think he would use golf clubs, tennis rackets, or giant dice? My answer would be "yes".
I always found his exclusion odd just because of that fourway dynamic they share. Even if heís technically never been in a main series platformer (neither has Wario for the most part), heís still been in literally dozens of Mario games, which I think should count for something.
You should. Itís a really well-made fangame that doesnít get enough love. Kind of appropriate really...
Edited by Berserker88 on Oct 11th 2018 at 8:14:30 AM
I think the hate for Waluigi blew up when those two guys harassed Sakurai on Twitter.
I imagine he would use something from every spin-off game he's ever been in, including the games you probably wouldn't think of at first like Fortune Street and Game & Watch Gallery 4.
Yup. He was in the modern version of the Boxing game as one of the opponents you fight.
Edited by Chris on Oct 11th 2018 at 8:31:25 AM
Only if he brings his bridal boutique with him.
Heís been in Game & Watch Gallery 4? I wasnít aware of that. Hell, I donít think I was aware they even MADE four.
Edited by Berserker88 on Oct 11th 2018 at 8:34:16 AM
I wouldn't be opposed to waluigi, but au the same time I feel there are other characters much more deserving. Honestly, the only character I really still want at this point is geno. Anyone else will be fine by me.
But I'm in agreement that it should be strictly game characters. If they actually add Goku you know the fanbase is gonna be ravenous and insatiable since at that point anything goes.
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