Bioshock Infinite

Well, that was the intention in the first place with the game. They wanted to show a city falling to pieces rather than being the carrior picking at a barely breathing carcas.

Just, I don't think they got the levels and narrative progression to work with that. The first few levels were ok and more so since we didn't have the abilities and gadgets to travel the landscape and could just get hints at the future open freedom.

But, after the first level or two, that starts to get harder to justify. The first level and Booker's public execution of a cop seem to justify why you never really encounter civilians, even if its still a bustling metropolis. NP Cs just disappear the second you get into combat. This falls apart later on as we get a couple diarama scenes of NP Cs escaping Colombia or picking at the stuff left behind, but its not particuarly pertinant or interesting.

And then you have the level design. The first level sets the stage for some really cool ideas and concepts. Above-rail trains and cargo cars that transport across the city, buildings that can simply fly in and connect or disembark from larger street corners, and other inovations to make a flying city work logistically. Look at how AMAZING the Liberty Island escape sequence is. It honestly built the idea of a larger connected city.

But once the levels open up more, a lot of that disappears. Streets become linear, buildings all connect to eachother despite how implausable it is with no other possible directions to take, cargo rails connect in little loops around a small area with no practical function like a child's toy trainset.

I get to an extent why they need to do this as they need to keep the narrative moving and also can't have the player get sidetracked into going to the wrong locations. However, the illusion doesn't get maintained to even a base level. Rapture could easily design levels to be more open and then place rubble and destruction to cover the linear progression. Sure, I realize how linear it is, but its still plausable in universe why that's so as the city is falling to pieces.

But Columbia is too open. Or too open from a logistic standpoint. I think its either clear the designers were too used to Rapture's clausterphobic and tight linear levels to deviate from it to do the EXACT opposite, too uncomfortable with that kind of challenging work, or too constrained by the technology available. Admitedly, Infinite IS a game that should have probably been called Icarus outright if for the fact that it reaches beyond its grasp. I don't know if it was mismanagement of the development or the technology shown in the demos just wasn't there or what, but the problem is that Infinite has a severe disonance between the world building in narrative and the world building in gameplay and they thematically fight at each other frequiently.

Yeah, come to think of it I do think they probably could have made this work. Though I think the issue is that Bioshock's level design benefits from being a tad labyrinthine and going at a somewhat slower pace. Thinking about the level design and how to use it your advantage is a big part of that game and zipping through the level in Infinite doesn't have the same effect.

A related issue to that, actually, is that to my knowledge there aren't any enemies like Big Daddies that I can recall. No enemy you have to go out of your way to hunt. Big Daddies actually are pretty core to Bioshock's gameplay IMO-that and hacking. Essentially in Bioshock you have three "factions": The Splicers, the Security System, and the Big Daddies. You can play them off of each other with the right skills. Infinite is less obviously systemic. A key, interesting feature of Bioshock is that you're not necessarily encouraged to just run in and shoot enemies.

Having said that this might be me misremembering things. I haven't played Infinite in a while-and despite how often I complain about it I actually do think of it as good. And I was playing it on easy, and apparently the game's a lot more fun on hard mode (because it gives you a motive to try more complex strategies).

Okay. Time for my annual "what the f-ck actually happened in this game?" post.

Everytime I look back at Bioshock Infinite's multiverse mechanics I lose more and more of my initial understanding. And I do seem to enjoy coming back to this ever year or so, yes - I've finally recovered all of the questions in a way I find satisfying.

So somewhere near the halfway point Booker and Elizabeth are forced by Fitzroy to pursue Chen Lin as part of a bargain. Unfortunately, Lin is dead by the time they find him. To solve this problem Elizabeth is advised to bring them to another reality where he's still alive.

• However, the problem is that Elizabeth mentions she won't be able to bring them back. Therefore, Fitzroy will never get her guns in Columbia A
  • Booker and Elizabeth know this and still voluntarily go through, and Booker fully intends to give Fitzroy her guns as if this is the same Fitzroy that he made the bargain with
• In Columbia B they find a bunch of soldiers Booker killed in Columbia A but it turns out that they have memories of being killed
  • So, does this happen every time Elizabeth and Booker go to a new world? Does everyone? The Luteces get a narrative free-pass, but Booker? We'll come back to this later.
• Traipsing about in Columbia B they find Chen Lin but his wife propositions them to go find Lin's tools, which they do, but only by opening another Tear - see it turns out that Lin's tools can't be carried back to the workshop so... Elizabeth solves this problem by taking them to another Columbia where the tools were... back at Lin's workshop.
  • So doesn't this mean that, in going to Columbia C they no longer are obligated to find Lin's tools, and that they have abandoned yet another Fitzroy and that the Fitzroy from Columbia A still won't get her guns?
  • And once again, after this happens, Booker fully intends to "finish the deal" with Fitzroy

Alright. Confusing yet? Intermission.

Good? Let's continue. Now we've gone through Columbia A where Fitzroy made the bargain, Columbia B that Booker-Elizabeth went to in order to find Chen Lin that would have invalidated Fitzroy's bargain, and Columbia C that they went to... because they're lazy and didn't want to find a way to bring Lin's tools back, which invalidates finding the tools for him back in Columbia B. Because remember: Elizabeth says they can't go back through the Tear once opened. But Booker still plans to get the airship.

• They are in Columbia C now where Booker never met Fitzroy, and never found Chen Lin dead, or met his wife from Columbia B who asked him to fetch the tools.
• It turns out that Booker joined the Vox Populi, Fitzroy's faction, and died as a martyr to Fitzroy's cause in Columbia C. Booker experiences memory fractures because of this, as that's how Bioshock's multiverse theory works. You enter another universe you get a nosebleed, and your memories stack on top of the memories of your doppelganger from that reality.
• Fitzroy of Columbia C is different from the one Booker met in Columbia A in her actions at least - she is aware that the Booker we play as is not the Booker she fought with in her timeline. So, there's our proof. These timelines/realities are separate.
  • There doesn't appear to be a moment where Booker or Elizabeth leave Columbia C - the timeline where Booker died.
• After dealing with Fitzroy in Columbia C Booker and Elizabeth try to escape on a ship but... Songbird attacks them. Why? Shouldn't the Elizabeth of Columbia C still be in her tower? Did Booker manage to free her?
  • The Luteces show up not too long after Songbird crashes their ship, so maybe they were manipulating events so that Booker and Elizabeth would inevitably destroy the Siphon. But, then, why did they do this? They played Songbird's song on the piano after the crash. Somehow, prior to this, Songbird was alerted to Elizabeth and Booker fleeing on the ship. Connection?
• I don't even want to begin on the Lady Comstock section.

Another intermission. Good? Good.

• Things transpire and Comstock captures Elizabeth, Booker goes on a trip to the future and comes back to Columbia C - they never leave this reality so this is still the one where Fitzroy's revolution happened.
• Despite this, Comstock's forces seem to be out in force. Plus, Comstock seems to fully recognize Booker, and Booker still treats this rivalrly as though he were speaking to the same person he met all the way back in Columbia A. In fact, shouldn't the Comstock of Columbia C have little to no idea why his younger self is here in the first place?

So, tl;dr:

• If just crossing to another Columbia results in dead people (the soldiers, Lady Comstock) coming back to life with headaches shouldn't Booker have immediately gone into fetal position after landing in Columbia C where he was dead?
• Why would saving Chen Lin in Columbia B have any effect on the deal in Columbia A which Elizabeth explicitly points out she and Booker cannot return to?
• Why would procuring Lin's tools in Columbia C have any effect on Chen Lin in Columbia B or his wife? Doesn't leaving B immediately make the goal in C different? Booker and Elizabeth shouldn't consider "finding" the tools in C as a way of fixing their situations in B or A.
• Why is Booker intent on going through Fitzroy's bargain at all in Columbia C? He never made the bargain with her in that Columbia. There was an entirely separate Booker.
  • The only way any of this makes sense is if Booker/Elizabeth went back to Columbia A but I've scoured a couple of Youtube playthroughs and I can't find anything like that between Fitzroy's death and the Lady Comstock sections.
• Why would the Comstock of Columbia C have any memory of Booker from Columbia A and why do Booker and Elizabeth treat him like he's are the same person?
• Why is Songbird able to prevent Elizabeth/Booker from leaving in Columbia C? In that Columbia it seems that Booker didn't kidnap Elizabeth, and she should still be in her Tower. Songbird wouldn't have any reason to pursue Booker/Elizabeth from Columbia A.
  • If the Luteces were behind it why would they prevent the two from leaving?

Edited by Soble on Apr 16th 2019 at 4:02:59 AM

To note, they mentioned that they cut out an entire level of the game very very VERY late in development. Finktown and the multiple tear jumps screams to me as a hasty patch-over that never quite got addressed. Then again, so does the whole Siren section too.

Neither of which feel 'bad' on their own persey, but that they aren't properly addressed and developed to feel complete. They're not bad, just half-baked and not explored.

I despised the Siren sections as they were all the same thing and were glorified add boss fights. Hell the final fight with Comstock was also an add bossfight

I find it's best not to examine the logic of the alternate universes too much. You are correct that the story claims that each universe has its own complete internal timeline, but at the same time, Booker, Elizabeth, Comstock, and even Songbird appear to have continuity across those universes, even as only Booker and Elizabeth move between them. The Luteces are already quantum superbeings at the start of the game, so they don't count.

The best explanation I can think of is that Elizabeth herself acts as a sort of bridge between them: she's already at least partly "multiversal" thanks to her finger, even while being drained by the siphon. Somehow, Elizabeth brings part of her reality along with her. Indeed, there's even a line where she talks about how she's never sure if she's going to other worlds with her tears or creating them.

The Siren is a Flunky Boss, and a major pain in the ass, especially in a part of the game where ammo is already scarce. The airship battle is a form of tower defense, where you're protecting the core against multiple waves of opponents. As frustrating as these fights can be, the last one in particular feels like it's meant to evoke a desperate last stand. There's no hope for any of these Columbias, and no chance for Booker to fulfill his original mission. All they can do is hold off the Vox long enough to get to the tower.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 16th 2019 at 6:56:17 AM

To be fair I don't think any of Bioshock's bossfights were ever really that good as I barely remember any of them. Maybe the Big Daddies and Big Sisters were decent but that was it.

I just remember hating the Siren stuff because they were not really fun, it was just killing the same enemies you just killed again and again.

And yeah I think the games writing suffered with the multiverse stuff. I also didn't really like the violent revolution part of the story as considering how bad Columbia was towards minorities it felt like it was trying way too hard to go both sides are bad with that bit.

It always strikes me that, when it comes to violent revolution from the minorities and oppressed, the best people seem to ever come up with is 'Both sides are bad because one is an oppressive dictatorship that has built an entire culture based on oppressing, murdering, and stomping on a group of people and the other side is... too violent?'.

I'm not trying to say that innocent people being killing in the crossfire ISN'T a problem, but... really? That's the best you can come up with? And not even going to try and examine the question of "If violent revolution isn't the answer, what is in a society where we have no voice or agency of our own?".

I don't think that Bioshock Infinite is making any sort of claim that revolution is bad per se, but rather that revolutions have a tendency to become as violent as the regimes they oppose. History has tons of evidence to back this up. It's not even a question of morality. Daisy is absolutely justified in fighting her war, but runs afoul of He Who Fights Monsters in the process.

We see the whole affair through Booker's eyes, and he's a man who's seen and done it all. He knows what war can turn a person into. He knows the plight of the workers and the machinations of the industrialists. He's not living in a heroic narrative where everything turns to sunshine and daises when the Big Bad is cast down.

I see your point, honestly it didn't bother me back when I first played Bioshock Infinite. I guess it just more bothers me in the recent couple years considering current political shit and how much I am tired of hearing the both sides are bad argument pop up a lot.

That's more where I'm at. I'm exhausted by it emotionally, mentally, and soon to be physically if I keep getting as stressed as I do.

It's also just plain boring to hear all the time. As though that's the only criticism to be made of a Revolution.

If it makes you feel any better, the message of Infinite isn't that both sides in a revolution are bad, but rather that most people are shitty when given a bit of power and convinced of their own righteousness.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 16th 2019 at 9:49:01 AM

...I'm uncertain as to where that's meant to make me feel better. It just makes me feel nihilistic and cynical.

I always thought it was an Order Versus Chaos sort of thing. Not that it matters in the end as it takes a backseat to interdimensional travel.

Well, the chaos does get fixed in a sense: by killing Booker before he becomes Comstock, Elizabeth retroactively erases all realities where Comstock creates Columbia, and therefore all realities in which the Vox Populi revolt and became bloodthirsty murderers. Really, it's the happiest of all endings that could have come from the story.

Not that the real early 20th century was all that great for black people, or Jewish people, but you know what I mean.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 17th 2019 at 9:40:47 AM

This reddit thread answered an important question for me: Why didn't Booker use Possession on the Songbird to keep it from attacking him?

Also, while I could understand why this makes sense in-universe (Comstock using it to strip the people of their free will) I... have no idea how this Vigor works from a scientific point of view, or an economic one.

Imagine if we sold this today. FOX News jokes aside, seriously. Imagine if there was a jawbreaker out there that let you remove your friend's free will.

Edited by Soble on Apr 25th 2020 at 8:10:46 AM

Unless I'm missing something, it "answers" by way of speculation, not Word of God, but it never occurred to me as a problem, since Booker is never in a position story-wise to even attempt Possession on Songbird. There is no point in the game where you engage him as an actual enemy. He attacks suddenly, overwhelmingly, and there is no opportunity to have a stand-up fight.

These kind of metagaming discussions always irritate me a little, because from a Doylist perspective, Songbird is a plot device, not a game mechanic. There is no point in treating him as if he were.

However, it does make sense from an internal logic perspective that if Possession doesn't work on Handymen, it wouldn't work on Songbird, since he is also a hybrid human-machine, just scaled up 10 times.

The idea of Vigors (and Plasmids, for that matter) being sold to the general public is bizarre from a story perspective no matter how much you try to apply Doylism to it. The in-game cutscenes when you get each one imply that they are more than a framing device; they are actually presented to customers as ways to "ward off demons", so citizens in Columbia are literally walking around with the ability to mind control each other and shoot fire from their hands. However, you never see any of that in gameplay, aside from the Raven cultists or whatever, so who knows?

It's an area of the game that just screams Gameplay and Story Segregation, but actively tries to pretend otherwise. It's weird.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 25th 2020 at 11:13:44 AM

I should explain - I'm actually writing a story that reinterprets Infinite's events, and I have a scenario where Songbird has to function as a more active combatant. Being that this is a novel and not a game, I have to either give Booker his usual abilities and have them make internal sense, or simply not give him those abilities.

I couldn't remember why or if there was any reason he couldn't just possess Songbird that didn't rely on Gameplay and Story Segregation. I'm not critiquing the game mind, but interested in whether or not there was a Watsonian explanation for why it didn't work.

As for the Vigors - iIt's just amusing. At least Bioshock 1 showed off plasmid as relatively harmless utilities - Incinerate being used as a cigarette lighter, Shock Jockey fixing electrical problems, bees... I guess being used for food production?

But stripping free will from people is stripping free will from people, and yeah, that's how it's marketed. At a locally-run fair of all places. That lady who gave Booker the stuff could have robbed him blind, or had her way with him, or had him assassinate someone.

IIRC certain plasmids weren't automatically available to the public but the civil war was the reason many of them got out/people were stealing/hoarding them, and you needed ADAM to actually use them. Vigors? They're sold like free booze with no immediate side-effects.

Edited by Soble on Apr 25th 2020 at 8:53:55 AM

Recently got this for the Nintendo Switch and I enjoyed every minute of it. I attempted the original Bioshock, but just couldn't get into it much. The pacing was off and the overall atmosphere didn't exactly grip me. For some reason, this game was a lot better and more easily accessible to me. Played it straight for several nights from beginning to end. I've yet to attempt the DLC, but looking forward to it, even if it does take place in Rapture, which, as mentioned, wasn't exactly an atmosphere that gripped me.

The DLC is way darker. It's more or less the same gameplay as the main story and does a lot to explain the ties between Rapture and Columbia, but be prepared for a very bleak tone.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 13th 2020 at 11:27:20 AM

Pffffffftttt... how times have changed! I'm glad people still enjoy this title!

Curious that Rapture didn't grab you but... Columbia does?

Edited by FOFD on Oct 13th 2020 at 8:41:02 AM

I don't really see why that would be surprising. They're basically polar opposites, one being an open apparent paradise in the sky and the other being a confined post-apocalyptic wasteland under the sea.

Granted Columbia gets a whole lot less idyllic very quickly, but it's still terribly different from Rapture even when it's most parallel.

Plus, Booker's a character, and having a companion for a lot of the game can really further lighten that atmosphere.

Helps that when Booker gets to Columbia, most people aren't already dead.

Yeah, the sense of 'there is something not quite right here' was immediately apparent when I entered Columbia and it immediately drew me in. And you're right, having a character BE your protagonist helps and having a NPC tag along that isn't a hindrance to combat AND can play off well to your protagonist? Just icing on the cake.

That ending tho.... I had to seriously wrap my head around it and I guess it would have made more sense if I played the original Bioshock...maybe? I did have to look up online to get a more concise analysis about it.

Edited by Darkflamewolf on Oct 14th 2020 at 6:55:03 AM