This is the thread for discussion of The Order of the Stick plot, characters, etc. We have a separate thread
for discussing game rules and mechanics. Excessive rules discussions here may be thumped as off-topic.
OP edited to make this header - Fighteer
edited 18th Sep '17 1:08:08 PM by Fighteer
Lost in Space
The portals, if they are operating normally, should show people inside and outside exactly what they would expect to see. It's only when they are disrupted that you would get that effect. They are very cleverly designed.
Edited by Fighteer on May 14th 2022 at 9:30:05 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Figure of Hourai
Otherwise they would have failed the first time anyone came in and saw their buddy disappear walking over the invisible line.
Avatar Source
Imagine an invisible portal, and you have it.
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
Unless Team Evil is in the process of figuring out the swapover, there's nothing preventing Oot S from implementing this plan tomorrow (a day's rest might make it more effective).
Lost in Space
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Not necessarily. If Team Evil has expended a lot of their magical arsenal (spell slots) in fighting whatever was down that tunnel, hitting them before they have a chance to rest and replenish their resources is sound tactics.
Nine thousand nine hundred eighty-two reasons.
Well, eventually Team Evil would have to return to dungeon delving, giving up on the matter of the Vanishing Dwarves. Waiting to ambush them on their way out of a tunnel would always be viable... Unless and until they discover the swapovers, which is of course what they're doing right now.
That's part of why I don't think ambush through the swapover is the best option, given what they know. The cost of interrupting their indefinite delay is quite steep, and rushing to hit Xykon's group as quickly as possible means sacrificing setup time, and thus potential ambush effectiveness.
Mostly does better things now. Key word mostly. Writes things, but you'll never find them. Or you can ask.
Lost in Space
If they discover the swapover, the hide-and-seek game is up and a final confrontation is forthcoming. It is to the good guys' advantage to be able to choose the time and place of the fight.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Nine thousand nine hundred eighty-two reasons.
Right, but since the Order don't know the swapover is going to be discovered, presuming Team Evil to be as fooled as they ever were indefinitely (or else really foolishly not saying otherwise), it's not only choosing where the final confrontation is.
It's choosing to have a final confrontation. A fight where if they fail in defeating Team Evil, Team Evil can press right forward to the Gate and end the world. As opposed to, say, setting up an ambush literally anywhere else which while harder is not impossible and offers the potential for non-world-ending retreat if needed.
Using the swapovers for a quick, cheap ambush would be very bad strategy, because it would take overwhelming tactical advantage to justify that risk. Prioritizing tactics over strategy is a very big mistake.
Of course, this is all moot anyways.
Mostly does better things now. Key word mostly. Writes things, but you'll never find them. Or you can ask.
Unless Roy has some reason to suspect that Team Evil is about to discover the true nature of the caves?
I do assume that Serini's got an alternate way out of here, so it's not like they're trapped.
I don't think the final confrontation is imminent, we're not far enough in the arc yet, unless Burlew decides to make Team Evil a Disc-One Final Boss, which is perfectly plausible given the motivations of the fiends. Personally I don't think he's gonna go that route.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Professional Forum Ninja
Even if Blackwing can't see or hear Redcloak and Oona, he can still hear Xykon and pass on what Xykon is saying to Roy and the party can piece together what's happening.
"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
Of course, he can only do that if he recognises the potential importance of what he's hearing.
Lost in Space
I feel as if Rich is reading the minds of thousands of fans and talking directly to us. Serini has a point here, but I have to say that narratively speaking, we will most definitely find out where Kraagor's Gate actually is before the end.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Man, I thought I was here quick.
Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
Huh.
So the swap over being found isn't really an issue anymore....
But wait!
Team Evil is there because they read about the information in Serini's diary, so does that mean she lied in her own diary about where the last gate was hidden?
One Strip! One Strip!
Lost in Space
At the very least, she wrote down incomplete information. I mean, we already know that because she certainly didn't document the swap-overs or the dungeon maze in her diary either; otherwise, Team Evil would have been prepared for those.
Misdirection by omission is a very Rogue thing to do.
Edited by Fighteer on May 25th 2022 at 10:16:36 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
Diaries are something you use to record your thoughts, not explain the intricacies of your traps.
So... are they going up there to fight now, or not? I'm not sure where this leaves us—whether or not they've decided to sacrifice the secret of the swap-overs for this chance to separate Team Evil. On the one hand, it's not as important a secret as they thought. On the other, it still gets Redcloak that much closer to figuring out the truth.
On the third hand, if they decide to wait then we're all wasting our time, so Doylism suggests they're going to go try this plan. If they can put Redcloak and the MITD in a room with O-Chul and without Xykon, that could lead to developments. Besides, we've all speculated that Redcloak is about to crack the swapover mystery anyway, because of the scorch mark.
Edited by HeraldAlberich on May 25th 2022 at 11:00:45 AM
Fighteer is right, we're almost certainly going to end up at the gate, by the law of conservation of detail. I'm beginning to think it's underneath all of them.
Edited by jjjj2 on May 25th 2022 at 12:21:38 PM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Cutting off Xykon from Redcloak, Oona and the Monster in the darkness really is the best opportunity to best them, but either red cloak is about to bypass the cave system after his investigation, rendering the advantage moot, or he's not, in which it's better to do it when team evil have expelled their spell slots and taken damage the next time they do four dungeons in a day.
The Arch-Douchebag
Not a bad idea. Serini doesn't have the ability to actually move the rift, but she might had just enough resources to bury it under an artificial mountain. And the dungeon must be an actual defense to some extent, Serini wouldn't have chosen to live inside it if there was another dungeon somewhere far away that actually contains the gate.
A bit of a WMG here, but could Serini actually be lying? Even if she trusts the Order now, leading everyone to believe the Gate is somewhere else while it's actually hiding behind a lead wall somewhere seems like the type of long-game ploy she would employ.
Edited by Tharkun140 on May 25th 2022 at 6:05:03 PM
Apathy is Death. Worse than Death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds beasts and insects.
Lost in Space
I too have wondered if her sudden change to going along with the Order is not whole-hearted.
I keep getting hopelessly confused by how these portals work, but;
Doesn't having one person outside the tunnel and the rest inside make it more likely that they'll discover the swapover, if they haven't already? Sure at the moment Xykon is looking the other way and not bothered, but turning around to see that Redcloak has vanished into thin air might be enough to pique his curiosity.