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This is the thread for discussion of The Order of the Stick plot, characters, etc. We have a separate thread for discussing game rules and mechanics. Excessive rules discussions here may be thumped as off-topic.

OP edited to make this header - Fighteer

edited 18th Sep '17 1:08:08 PM by Fighteer

Nov 24th 2020 at 11:49:42 PM

The True Neutral plane, the Outlands, is an infinite flat disk with seventeen gate-towns along its "border". Each town exists around a gate to one of the other 16 outer planes.

So if you are somewhere between true neutral and lawful neutral, you may end up in the gate-town Automata, while a more purely true neutral soul will have a place somewhere else in the plane other than the towns.

jjjj2 Mario goes Super Saiyan! from Mushroom Kingdom
Mario goes Super Saiyan!
Nov 27th 2020 at 6:19:21 AM

Think So

Blackwing's thought speech was pretty funny.

Edited by jjjj2 on Nov 27th 2020 at 9:19:31 AM

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
TotemicHero Not a bug! from the next level
Not a bug!
Nov 27th 2020 at 6:28:48 AM

Well then, the theory that the rune trap triggers dimensional shifting of the different mini-dungeons looks to be very on the nose.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
M84 TIL Aromantics had a flag too from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
TIL Aromantics had a flag too
Nov 27th 2020 at 7:18:39 AM

Does that mean that if it turns out to be wrong after all, we get to laugh at you instead?

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
Nov 27th 2020 at 7:37:36 AM

Definitely teleporting/dungeon shifting shenanigans. cool

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
Nov 27th 2020 at 7:49:44 AM

Wait, so is this them bypassing the effect of the trap, or triggering it

Does this mean they DON'T find the gate?

Also, I was expecting the effect of triggering it to not be so.... flashy.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Lost in Space
Nov 27th 2020 at 7:51:04 AM

They didn't trigger it. Haley sabotaged the trap, causing it to go "fzzzt". That's my interpretation. Ordinarily it's meant to be completely undetectable.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 27th 2020 at 10:59:47 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
wingedcatgirl These memories are MINE. from You should know.
These memories are MINE.
Nov 27th 2020 at 7:56:56 AM

Hmm. This reads less like "the runes send you into a fake dungeon" and more like "bypassing the runes triggers something that sends you into the real dungeon".

Kind of a Distinction Without a Difference, but it explains why nobody noticed being teleported repeatedly.

disc | Murderverse
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
Nov 27th 2020 at 8:18:06 AM

Is a rat skull a common spell component?

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
HandsomeRob High Priest of the Holey Brotherhood! from Holey Brotherhood Lair Relationship Status: My elf kissing days are over
High Priest of the Holey Brotherhood!
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from a handcart heading to Hell Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
Nov 27th 2020 at 8:33:17 AM

I’m kinda expecting a big splash page for the next update, it just feels like exactly what comes next with all the build up.

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Aetol from France
Nov 27th 2020 at 8:40:41 AM

[up][up][up][up] Well the problem is that the dungeon-shifting theory explained how there could be a whole dungeon behind each one of the doors. If triggering the runes actually does nothing, that reopens that question.

Worldbuilding is fun, writing is a chore
TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Nov 27th 2020 at 9:03:44 AM

Dungeons don't have to be huge complexes. Each of Kraagor's Tomb's dungeons could just be, like, a straight tube filled with monsters made up of various chambers. There aren't a lot of specific requirements for what constitutes a "dungeon".

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 27th 2020 at 9:04:36 AM

If you think that was wordy, you should check out my Tumblr: The Exposition Dragon.
DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
Nov 27th 2020 at 9:12:52 AM

It may be that bypassing the runes triggers the teleportation. They are now in the dungeon with the portal. Blackwing not having followed them is going to be an important plot point. Team Evil is going to figure this out as well, somehow.

Oh, and I never doubted you, Fighteer. Well, not in this thread, anyway.

"Better to be lowly in spirit along with the oppressed than to share plunder with the proud."
VengeanceNightBatman Guardian of Gotham from Definitely Not In A Cave Under Wayne Manor Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
Guardian of Gotham
Nov 27th 2020 at 9:23:03 AM

Blackwing not following them is mostly going to serve as a warning that Team Evil is closing in.

Also, V may have called it a drawback, but Blackwing’s Motor Mouth tendencies will actually be useful in a way. If he stops narrating to himself, V will know immediately that something is wrong.

I am Vengeance! I am the Night! I am... BAT-TROPER!
Gilphon Untrustworthy from The Third Sound Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Untrustworthy
Nov 27th 2020 at 9:23:55 AM

Hmm. So I feel comfortable saying that you get sent to a different place depending on whether or not you trigger the trap. I also feel comfortable saying that this is how dozens of different dungeons can co-exist side-by-side.

Which means that it is more likely the no-trap version is what's physically inside the cliff, whereas the yes-trap version is somewhere else. But then why is the floor a different colour in the no-trap version? Like surely that version should just be the natural colour of the local rock. Anything else would be an insane amount of effort of no obvious end. Is it just supposed that the no-trap version isn't as weathered? Because this place hasn't existed for long enough for me expect that be to be noticeable.

"Canada Day is over, and now begins the endless dark of the Canada Night."
DeMarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
Nov 27th 2020 at 9:34:01 AM

If bypassing the runes triggers the teleportation, then the floor is a different color because it is a different floor. You would want the floor to remain the same if the trap is triggered, because the whole point is that the victim doesn't know they have triggered anything.

"Better to be lowly in spirit along with the oppressed than to share plunder with the proud."
TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Nov 27th 2020 at 9:52:55 AM

The different color of floor definitely seems to indicate that bypassing the runes is what creates the portal or whatever to the Gate room. Which would imply that what's beyond the runes normally would be the dungeon you encounter whenever you enter a door.

The conclusion that seems most supported by the evidence is that the Order has now entered a different chamber than what exists physically beyond the door. It seems logistically weird that failing to trigger a trap would create an effect rather than triggering it, but it's the only thing that makes sense given the datapoint of the floor changing.

Haley has opened the path to what will almost certainly be the Gate, which can theoretically be accessed from any door but actually only by a high-level rogue. Rogue to notice the runes, high-level to bypass them, a feat that was clearly difficult even for Haley given that she requested some time to take 20 on it.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 27th 2020 at 9:55:37 AM

If you think that was wordy, you should check out my Tumblr: The Exposition Dragon.
Gilphon Untrustworthy from The Third Sound Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Untrustworthy
Nov 27th 2020 at 10:13:44 AM

Basically I see three models here:

  • 1. Team Evil is physically inside the cliff, and the Order is somewhere else
  • 2. The Order is physically inside the cliff, and Team Evil is somewhere else
  • 3. The trap doesn't control any portals, and actually just changes the colour of floor or something like that.

#3 is mostly included for the sake of completeness; I don't think any of us actually believe that's the case. So then:

  • Pros of model #1:
    • The trap's effect is hard to detect
    • Doesn't require a portal with a indefinite duration
    • The different coloured floor is easier to explain
    • Explorers don't ask question about the cliff seemingly being bigger on the inside

  • Pros of model #2:
    • Multiple dungeon complexes can be built without worrying about collapsing the cliff-face or bumping into each other. note 
    • You can't cheat by jump directly from one door to the next.
    • The gate is in the same physical space as the coordinates it was said to exist at.
    • A less convoluted trap set-up means less opportunity for things to break down and go wrong

Edited by Gilphon on Nov 27th 2020 at 1:14:27 PM

"Canada Day is over, and now begins the endless dark of the Canada Night."
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Nov 27th 2020 at 10:35:03 AM

1. Team Evil is physically inside the cliff, and the Order is somewhere else
2. The Order is physically inside the cliff, and Team Evil is somewhere else
Multidimensional stone — They can both be in the cliff.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Nov 27th 2020 at 10:37:15 AM

Does being dimensionally locked keep you from being teleported against your will? That seems like something that would break this kind of trap in two if you know it's there even if you can't see or disarm it.

Druplesnubb Editor of Posts
Editor of Posts
Nov 27th 2020 at 10:59:38 AM

I think they just painted the floor of the entrances to match the "fake" caves so you don't notice that you're being teleported.

FuzzyBoots from Outlying borough of Pittsburgh (there's a lot of Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Nov 27th 2020 at 11:00:39 AM

Nice detail, Roy grabbing Belkar to ensure he gets across. Unless, of course, this means that Roy is going to just miss getting across so we can get some drama...


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