The Order of the Stick

I know in the Evil afterlives the souls are eventually just crushed into primordial soul powder to make monsters and demons from. Is the same true for the Good afterlives, just with a better spin? What do the Good gods make their angels from?

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you

He would not just have to listen, but believe them, and they shot themselves in the foot with that, since TDO started off with almost no reason to trust them.

Edited by crazysamaritan on Oct 17th 2018 at 1:46:36 PM

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Man, it's like Rich has been following this thread for the last month.

There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.

Yeah. That's the worst part. And Thor knows it too. The Gods alienated their best chance of ending a cycle they've been trapped in for centuries.

Both the Dark One and the Snarl are a result of their own mistakes, and ironically only one can stop the other.

One Strip! One Strip!

Centuries? More like eons.

Yes, but it's not just better in theory, but more pleasant for the soul involved. In Celestia, you climb the mountain until you reach enlightenment, meditating your spirit into the Plane. In Valhalla, you party eternally into Oblivion. Etc. The key for the Good afterlives is you choose the pace at which you go. If you want to stay at the lower levels of Celestia with your family and your pleasures, you can, but eventually you'll get bored.

When Celia said that her kind doesn't have an afterlife, but just merges back into her plane, Roy didn't realize the same is true for mortals, just more complicated.

Rich wrote this out in more detail on the GITP forums at some point; I'll try and track it down.

Hey, that's a young current High Priest of Thor in the Worship panel, isn't it?

And that cleric just got killed by a bugbear in the same getup as Oona and her tribe. Not saying there has to be a connection, but there could be.

Writer, or something. And... a button? 🖲️

So, I was thinking of this post, but for greater context, read through the first couple pages of the thread.

I understand the point being made, and why it's being written this way, but it still strikes me as a bit surprising that the Dark One probably wouldn't be able to last.

But at least we know where things stand - ascended mortal gods aren't inherently tied to their original worlds, it just so happens that they usually haven't had enough time to stock up on enough "food" to survive how ever long it takes before they can start making a new world.

Edited by LSBK on Oct 17th 2018 at 2:34:05 PM

I like that dialogue a lot.

Yes, mortal people are highly attached to their continued existence, and will do highly questionable things to extend it. Within the fixed system of a materialist universe, that's fairly rational. And while trying to live forever isn't necessarily inherently wrong, it is incredibly ambitious, and like any grand ambition it has the potential to become foolish or evil depending on what you sacrifice or inflict on others to make it possible. And in a world where personal existence after death is also finite, albeit much longer, trying to exist forever is just the same.

Another interesting implication is how Humans Are Special (and... halflings and dragonborn? I think?): since We Are as Mayflies, we get to make it through the nasty, brutish and blessedly short gauntlet of physical existence quicker than the other sentient races and spend a bigger proportion of our time in the afterlife. Even more incentive to strive for a good one.

Edited by johnnye on Oct 17th 2018 at 8:51:02 PM

Further down that same thread someone makes the point that the plane alignment that really screws its followers is Chaos. They mention Chaotic Good, but I think Chaotic Neutral get the shitty end of the stick. Arborea, Ysgard and the Beastlands aren't that bad; you could potentially carve out your own little domain and live in peace. But Limbo is a total lie. You lived your life believing you could please the gods by doing what thou wilt and living your own truth... then you go to your afterlife and get turned into chewing gum within 5 minutes.

Edit: (Obviously Chaotic Evil is also terrible, but I feel like that's more a case of caveat emptor. An evil afterlife is gonna be evil; it's less predictable that a neutral afterlife would be a nightmare hellscape of insanity.)

Edited by johnnye on Oct 17th 2018 at 9:26:51 AM

I must admit to being a bit disappointed when I first read that thread. If I found myself in Celestia, my first destination would be the library where I would spend decades reading every book I'll never, ever get around to in life... but apparently I couldn't retain any of the knowledge therein, so what's the point of that?

But a big chunk of that thread is dedicated to pointing out that D&D afterlives don't actually make a lot of sense.

Edited by HeraldAlberich on Oct 17th 2018 at 4:29:47 AM

You can't retain any knowledge after you die in RL. It doesn't make any less sense than that.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

It's interesting that Thor thinks that getting all the souls of the goblinoids wouldn't be enough to tide the Dark One over.

I wonder how long cool down period for the Snarl actually is.

The pantheon comment implies that there's a shared faith between the gods of a single pantheon, meaning only goblins would be sustaining the Dark One while Thor, for example, would get a little bit of help from being associated with Loki and Odin.

The phrasing, "hasn't had the followers of a whole pantheon believing in him", sounds like it's about belief specifically. If you think about it that's just a logical consequence of gods being associated with each other; any follower of Thor will also "know that [insert other Northern God here] exists, in that specific identity". Contrast Minrah's "Who is—?" upon seeing the Dark One.

Also Hel's plan makes more sense knowing the gods get a burst of power when a mortal dies and is sent to their god. Although I guess there's still a question of if an individual soul is a finite source of power or not, given that it's already established a soul's time remembering their life is finite.

But this up the stakes for all involved, the gods are considering destroying the world in part because they know about the Dark One's Plan A, and with this information, Plan B becomes unworkable.

Either goblinoids getting a better lot in life in this world, or there most likely won't be any goblinoids in theoretical future worlds.

Which makes how Redcloak will react even more interesting - he's been going to prove to himself (and Righteye) that all of that he's done will be worth it in the end, but this information will definitively say "no, it wasn't and it won't be".

Edited by LSBK on Oct 17th 2018 at 5:48:59 AM

Shit... Even Summon Proxy won't work, because we know why Thor has to talk with The Dark One and his claim that "you aren't likely to survive the interval" is going to be "another lie by the establishment".

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

...maybe there is one other chance.

Let the Dark One succeed.

He's only going to talk to them once he has all the cards. That might be the last chance to explain anything to him. After all, he's only going to unleash it on them if they don't agree to his terms right?

So let him get control of the Snarl, he comes with his bullshit, Thor explains everything and says they'll give him what he wants if he helps them put an end to things.

Or even give him what he wants first (if that's possible) and then explain.

Of course, there are holes a mile wide in this plan (the most obvious being he's not inclined to listen to them at all), but maybe it's the only way to get him talking to them.

One Strip! One Strip!

Well, Thor already said the Dark One won't listen to anything he says because of the bad blood (bad... ichor? What do gods bleed?) between them. But yeah, "you need to do what we want because otherwise... you'll die" does come across as a rather overwrought warning at best, and a barely-veiled threat at worst.

If you're going to do that, why wait until he's holding the gun to your head? Just send a message saying "We give in. Here is a list of concessions we are willing to make. Just please, leave the Snarl alone. It's even more dangerous than you know, which is why we're willing to offer these terms."

Edited by johnnye on Oct 17th 2018 at 1:47:29 PM

(Yes, that gives him a lot of power. But he's a pantheon of one: according to the established Godsmoot rules, he deserves to be unusually powerful. Maybe he ends up the king of the gods, his decisions only to be gainsaid by all the other pantheons combined. Is that worse than a continuing eternity playing keep-away with an eldritch abomination?)

Yes, that would be the best option - if they know the reason for the Plan. They may think that the purpose of the Plan is just to get revenge, not to obtain a bargaining chip.

And the gods would have to actually be willing to make concessions to give the goblins equality - the previous comic showed that many of them aren't, and prefer an endless cycle of worlds being destroyed.

Whuch is why there's a serious need to people to talk to each other and share information - and why the main characters need to do it, since it's unsafe for the gods to do so. Also, the OOTS world has things like "Discern Lies" and "Sense Motive", which should help at leadt a little with being able to believe one another.

The big thing Thor still hasn't revealed is about the goblins being created as XP fodder. That's going to be a big moment.

Edited by Galadriel on Oct 17th 2018 at 8:58:41 AM

Remind me, is the Red Cloak considered an artifact, or is it just a badge of office for the high priest of the dark one?

Apocalypse: Dirge Of Swans.

The red cloak is a magical artifact created by the Dark One. It has a number of powers, including giving Redcloak eternal youth and conveying the ritual to control the gates.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"