The Order of the Stick

That's up to the DM, because those are not scenarios covered by the rules.

I don't think we're going to see Durkula changing his alignment here.

I think we're going back to the title of 695. Paranoia will destroy ya. Pay close attention to the people inside the anti-life shell in the last two frames.

Putting Durkula at odds with his allies seems like a win to me.

You'll have to speak less cryptically, because I don't think anyone knows what you're talking about. Those are his spawn, not his allies.

...I don't know... whammy as this page is, I think the real one is coming next page.

Still, that explains a lot about Durkon's early life. And I can't help but wonder where Sigdi and all those guys are right now.

Edited by TheLovecraftian on Jul 19th 2018 at 6:20:08 AM

I think if we've learned anything from this arc it's that vampires' Dominating Gaze is way OP.

By anyone you mean yourself, but that's okay. If I was going to take issue with people thinking they represented everybody I'd have to start with my mother. Probably so would most of us.

There are, counting the baby, five people inside the anti-life shell. Tell me something about each one. Take your time.

Hilgya is the mother of the baby, dominated by Durkula. Tall chick is a vampire taken from among the Stone Creed with a host who secretly harbored sadistic urges. Dwarf vampire was turned from one of the keepers of the hall, likely a low-level cleric and likely still under Durkula's thrall. Durkula is Durkula. The baby is not dominated, but also has absolutely no combat abilities.

All in all, no real sign of The Starscream in there. Also, I don't see any signs of recognition among anyone here. Generally I find cryptic statements in general distracting rather than helpful. I'm not presuming to speak for everyone. I'm just saying general knowledge of who the characters in question are isn't sufficient to guess at the point you're making.

Edited by blkwhtrbbt on Jul 19th 2018 at 4:33:47 AM

I think the implication they're getting at is that the other Dwarf Vampire looks like one of the people Sigdi revived. Personally, I don't think that's the same character, since Durkon never made a mention to it.

Edited by TheLovecraftian on Jul 19th 2018 at 6:35:52 AM

I assume Hilgya could break out of her Domination, but that's been on the table since the first page she got dominated in the first place. That's hardly a WHAM moment.

The hair is drawn very differently and the skin tone isn't a match. Also, the cleric is too young to be the miner. The miner would be close to Durkon's mother's age.

Why would any of this making Durkula question his underlings? What paranoia?

And, yeah, if any of these people were some of Durkon's surrogates aunts or uncles that would have been mentioned already.

Edited by LSBK on Jul 19th 2018 at 4:42:52 AM

I mean, they look enough alike that I can see why one would make the connection at first glance. But looking closer, they're clearly not the same person, and if they were, Durkon would have said something a while ago.

I mean, even if it the same person, it probably wouldn't affect anything. And even if it did affect things, the best case scenario would be robbing Durkula of the most disposable of his remaining minions. Not exactly something that would payoff the build up this has gotten. Let alone help the Order out of their current mess.

Going to nth the suggestion @ Michael that you just say what you mean and be less smug about it.

But yeah, if what you are asserting is that the black vampire woman in the shell is the same as one of Durkon's "aunts", I'm skeptical and don't see what it has at all to do with the strip/line you referenced, even if it is her.

Although the two do look similar (especially given Only Six Faces), I don't think this is what the reveal is leading up to, especially because if anything, vamping one of Durkon's loved ones would give Greg an advantage over him, not vice versa.

Lastly, I'm just generally not clear on whether you are arguing (if you are) that Greg is going to attack her or she's going to attack him.

Huh, so Durkon's surrogate aunts and uncles had no family before Durkon's mother (I don't trust myself to spell her name right) had them raised.

So it's not just Durkon that got a family because of this, it's all of them too. A very apt title.

There's a reason they have a +8 Level Adjustment. Assuming the party is around level 17, Greg is treated as if he were level 25 when calculating his XP.

So it looks like this comfirms that "donation" is just the term thr church uses instead of "payment," and that it goes toward the material costs of the spell, as the diamonds from the chest are what they used in the spells.

Isn't it therefore really difficult to play Vampire characters too?

Yes, it is. If Durkon had been a vampire since the beginning of the campaign, he'd be level 9 to the rest of the party's 17 and he would basically be utter garbage as a Cleric. He'd be an awful character and would accomplish next to nothing.

But. Standing at level 17 among other level 17 characters, Greg is a f*cking behemoth due to having an equal class level to everyone else and all the racial benefits that make up that +8 Level Adjustment.

He's fundamentally inferior to a true Level 25 character, but also dramatically more powerful than a standard Level 17 character.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 19th 2018 at 5:37:27 AM

Vampirism is the Drake Sword of D & D. Incidentally do we have a trope for that? A Disk One Nuke that specifically weakens you significantly in the long run if you indulge in it? Especially like Vampirism, it's not something you can just drop.

Hence Malack being a lower-level caster than Durkon, despite being around for centuries- he didn't get any XP from low or mid level things, but he's not tough enough to take on really high level stuff either.

It sounds like Vampires were specifically designed to be boss-level NPCs and designed to discourage players from playing as them.

Crutch Character

It would help if the vampire party member wasn't a caster, mind.

Quadratic spellcasters mean it is basically never worth taking a Level Adjusted template, because no amount of cool racial bonuses makes up for nerfing your spell list and your caster level. A Cleric in a ~Level 17 party who doesn't even have 6th-Level spells? Come on, get the f*ck out of here with that shit.

There's a reason you never cross-class as a caster, and it's the same reason you avoid monster templates like the plague. There is nothing the game can possibly give you that is better than +X caster levels.

But even then, I'd imagine a +8 Level Adjustment to be pretty crippling even to Linear Warrior classes.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 19th 2018 at 6:06:12 AM

A vampire anything would be able to punch way above its weight class against any humanoid by using its domination gaze, so it wouldn't be useless.