Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / TheLastJedi

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** In a case of critics who love the movie being misaimed, a common thing to see in reviews is that the reveal of Rey's lineage being "from nothing" combined with the stable boy in the ending using the Force to pull a broom into his hand is a "democratization of the Force" and doing away with the trope that only certain bloodlines can utilize the Force. However, this displays a lack of understanding of the franchise, which has ''always'' said the Force is open to be used by anyone, and the old Jedi Order from the Younglings to the Council were populated with powerful Force users whose bloodlines were unimportant. The twist with Rey's lineage and scene with the stable boy were designed as subversive takes on the ''literary'' trope of TheHero, not on some in-universe trope about the Force that never existed.

to:

** In a case of critics who love the movie being misaimed, a common thing to see in reviews is that the reveal of Rey's lineage being "from nothing" combined with the stable boy in the ending using the Force to pull a broom into his hand is a "democratization of the Force" and doing away with the trope that only certain bloodlines can utilize the Force. However, this displays a lack of understanding of the franchise, which has ''always'' said the Force is open to be used by anyone, and the old Jedi Order from the Younglings to the Council were populated with powerful Force users whose bloodlines were unimportant. The twist with Rey's lineage and scene with the stable boy were designed as subversive takes on the ''literary'' trope of TheHero, not on some in-universe trope about the Force that never existed. [[note]] Granted, the introduction of Midi-Chlorians in Phantom Menace was something that always muddled the waters as to how the force operated, as Qui-Qon measuring Anakin's blood and him possessing 20,000 implied the Force existed within one's blood which can then presumably be passed on to Luke and Leia through their lineage from Anakin. It was the initial negative reception to such a concept that led to Midi-chlorians being significantly reduced in the franchise, with every scant appearance they made since explicitly refuting or retconning this interpretation. However, the vagueness surrounding their introduction in Phantom menace and the fact that most people are not aware of the expanded universes is why this debate persists. [[/note]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** During the scene where Finn fights Captain Phasma, an extended sequence was shot [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech where he publicly calls her out]] for betraying the First Order in ''Film/TheForceAwakens'' [[DirtyCoward just to save her own hide]]. This leads to Phasma murdering her own men to prevent them from revealing her deception before continuing her fight with Finn. Many fans felt the scene added a lot more to Phasma's character, and made for a more satisfying final showdown between Finn and his former commander.

to:

** During the scene where Finn fights Captain Phasma, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzeIb-TZo_I an extended sequence sequence]] was shot [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech where he publicly calls her out]] for betraying the First Order in ''Film/TheForceAwakens'' [[DirtyCoward just to save her own hide]]. This leads to Phasma murdering her own men to prevent them from revealing her deception before continuing her fight with Finn. Many fans felt the scene added a lot more to Phasma's character, and made for a more satisfying final showdown between Finn and his former commander.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* MisaimedMarketing: Kylo Ren's mask got just as much play in the merchandise for this film as in the previous one. Cue, very early on in the film, Snoke mocking him for wearing it, and him smashing it to a mass of twisted metal and never wearing it again.

to:

* MisaimedMarketing: MisaimedMerchandising: Kylo Ren's mask got just as much play in the merchandise for this film as in the previous one. Cue, very early on in the film, Snoke mocking him for wearing it, and him smashing it to a mass of twisted metal and never wearing it again.

Changed: 481

Removed: 1071

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Given Johny Boyaga himself feels he was Demoted To Comic Relief I don't feel its an unfair assesmnent


* CommonKnowledge:
** Detractors of the film often cite the inclusion of ships running on fuel as something made up for the film and had no prior existence in canon. In reality, ships were shown being fueled as early as ''Film/ANewHope'', with fuel also been acknowledged in dialogue in both ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith''. The latter film even has a DeletedScene where Anakin and Obi-Wan escape from General Grievous by jumping into the ''Invisible Hand's'' massive fuel tank.
** Fans claiming TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter with Finn will cite this film as him being DemotedToComicRelief, claiming that his scenes are divorced from the rest of the movie. In actuality, Finn has exactly one moment of comedy during the whole subplot (his cries of “Stop enjoying this!”), while the scenes serve to give both him and Rose meaningful CharacterDevelopment, wih the former becoming fully devoted to the Resistance after spending the past film and a half as a LovableCoward, while Rose learns that the rich do not run on BlackAndWhiteMorality like she assumed before.

to:

* CommonKnowledge:
**
CommonKnowledge: Detractors of the film often cite the inclusion of ships running on fuel as something made up for the film and had no prior existence in canon. In reality, ships were shown being fueled as early as ''Film/ANewHope'', with fuel also been acknowledged in dialogue in both ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith''. The latter film even has a DeletedScene where Anakin and Obi-Wan escape from General Grievous by jumping into the ''Invisible Hand's'' massive fuel tank.
** Fans claiming TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter with Finn will cite this film as him being DemotedToComicRelief, claiming that his scenes are divorced from the rest of the movie. In actuality, Finn has exactly one moment of comedy during the whole subplot (his cries of “Stop enjoying this!”), while the scenes serve to give both him and Rose meaningful CharacterDevelopment, wih the former becoming fully devoted to the Resistance after spending the past film and a half as a LovableCoward, while Rose learns that the rich do not run on BlackAndWhiteMorality like she assumed before.
tank.

Added: 1071

Changed: 481

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CommonKnowledge: Detractors of the film often cite the inclusion of ships running on fuel as something made up for the film and had no prior existence in canon. In reality, ships were shown being fueled as early as ''Film/ANewHope'', with fuel also been acknowledged in dialogue in both ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith''. The latter film even has a DeletedScene where Anakin and Obi-Wan escape from General Grievous by jumping into the ''Invisible Hand's'' massive fuel tank.

to:

* CommonKnowledge: CommonKnowledge:
**
Detractors of the film often cite the inclusion of ships running on fuel as something made up for the film and had no prior existence in canon. In reality, ships were shown being fueled as early as ''Film/ANewHope'', with fuel also been acknowledged in dialogue in both ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith''. The latter film even has a DeletedScene where Anakin and Obi-Wan escape from General Grievous by jumping into the ''Invisible Hand's'' massive fuel tank.tank.
** Fans claiming TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodCharacter with Finn will cite this film as him being DemotedToComicRelief, claiming that his scenes are divorced from the rest of the movie. In actuality, Finn has exactly one moment of comedy during the whole subplot (his cries of “Stop enjoying this!”), while the scenes serve to give both him and Rose meaningful CharacterDevelopment, wih the former becoming fully devoted to the Resistance after spending the past film and a half as a LovableCoward, while Rose learns that the rich do not run on BlackAndWhiteMorality like she assumed before.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* OvershadowedByControversy: Even years after it was released, it's difficult to talk about the film without at least mentioning the sheer number of heated debates over the film, including its handling of legacy characters and whether or not it ultimately hurt the franchise.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Cut per Vindicated cleanup thread - YMMV can also not be played with


* VindicatedByHistory: To an extent. Although critics were more positive to it, the film was responded with 'extremely' divisive reviews in the eyes of audiences and old Star Wars fans when it was first released, with many of its detractors claiming that it heralded the ''[[DarthWiki/RuinedForever ruining of the franchise]].'' However, after the release of its much more detested follow-up ''Film/TheRiseOfSkywalker'' (which undid much of ''Last Jedi's'' plot due to Creator/JJAbrams not liking its direction), as well as Disney's newer ''Star Wars'' projects becoming more experimental with the franchise with some either considered better or average, although it still is a very divisive movie to fans as of today, some have begun to look better at ''The Last Jedi'', with it's defenders appreciating its ambition and attempt to deviate from the cookie-cutter blockbuster style of [[Film/TheForceAwakens its predecessor]], and it's strengths like the Throne Room scene, the ''Holdo Maneuver'', a scene where Leia using the force to survive being blown into space, awesome visual effects, the return of Yoda in a cameo, a cast of likeable characters, and some perfect character development for several characters. It is also agreed Rian gave a delicate direction that was a great departure from audience expectations that helped make the film more interesting at times.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* VindicatedByHistory: To an extent. Although critics were more positive to it, the film was responded with 'extremely' divisive reviews in the eyes of audiences and old Star Wars fans when it was first released, with many of its detractors claiming that it heralded the ''[[DarthWiki/RuinedForever ruining of the franchise]].'' However, after the release of its much more detested follow-up ''Film/TheRiseOfSkywalker'' (which undid much of ''Last Jedi's'' plot due to Creator/JJAbrams not liking its direction), as well as Disney's newer ''Star Wars'' projects becoming more experimental with the franchise with some either considered better or average, although it still is a very divisive movie to fans as of today, some have begun to look better at ''The Last Jedi'', with it's defenders appreciating its ambition and attempt to deviate from the cookie-cutter blockbuster style of [[Film/TheForceAwakens its predecessor]], and it's strengths like the Throne Room scene, the ''Holdo Maneuver'', a scene where Leia using the force to survive being blown into space, awesome visual effects, a cast of likeable characters, and some perfect character development for several characters. It is also agreed Rian gave a delicate direction that was a great departure from audience expectations that helped make the film more interesting at times.

to:

* VindicatedByHistory: To an extent. Although critics were more positive to it, the film was responded with 'extremely' divisive reviews in the eyes of audiences and old Star Wars fans when it was first released, with many of its detractors claiming that it heralded the ''[[DarthWiki/RuinedForever ruining of the franchise]].'' However, after the release of its much more detested follow-up ''Film/TheRiseOfSkywalker'' (which undid much of ''Last Jedi's'' plot due to Creator/JJAbrams not liking its direction), as well as Disney's newer ''Star Wars'' projects becoming more experimental with the franchise with some either considered better or average, although it still is a very divisive movie to fans as of today, some have begun to look better at ''The Last Jedi'', with it's defenders appreciating its ambition and attempt to deviate from the cookie-cutter blockbuster style of [[Film/TheForceAwakens its predecessor]], and it's strengths like the Throne Room scene, the ''Holdo Maneuver'', a scene where Leia using the force to survive being blown into space, awesome visual effects, the return of Yoda in a cameo, a cast of likeable characters, and some perfect character development for several characters. It is also agreed Rian gave a delicate direction that was a great departure from audience expectations that helped make the film more interesting at times.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* VindicatedByHistory: To an extent. Although critics were more positive to it, the film was responded with 'extremely' divisive reviews in the eyes of audiences and old Star Wars fans when it was first released, with many of its detractors claiming that it heralded the ''[[DarthWiki/RuinedForever ruining of the franchise]].'' However, after the release of its much more detested follow-up ''Film/TheRiseOfSkywalker'' (which undid much of ''Last Jedi's'' plot due to Creator/JJAbrams not liking its direction), as well as Disney's newer ''Star Wars'' projects becoming more experimental with the franchise with some either considered better or average, although it still is a very divisive movie to fans as of today, some have begun to look better at ''The Last Jedi'', with it's defenders appreciating its ambition and attempt to deviate from the cookie-cutter blockbuster style of [[Film/TheForceAwakens its predecessor]], and it's strengths like the Throne Room scene, the ''Holdo Maneuver'', a scene where Leia using the force to survive being blown into space, and some perfect character development for several characters. It is also agreed Rian gave a delicate direction that was a great departure from audience expectations that helped make the film more interesting at times.

to:

* VindicatedByHistory: To an extent. Although critics were more positive to it, the film was responded with 'extremely' divisive reviews in the eyes of audiences and old Star Wars fans when it was first released, with many of its detractors claiming that it heralded the ''[[DarthWiki/RuinedForever ruining of the franchise]].'' However, after the release of its much more detested follow-up ''Film/TheRiseOfSkywalker'' (which undid much of ''Last Jedi's'' plot due to Creator/JJAbrams not liking its direction), as well as Disney's newer ''Star Wars'' projects becoming more experimental with the franchise with some either considered better or average, although it still is a very divisive movie to fans as of today, some have begun to look better at ''The Last Jedi'', with it's defenders appreciating its ambition and attempt to deviate from the cookie-cutter blockbuster style of [[Film/TheForceAwakens its predecessor]], and it's strengths like the Throne Room scene, the ''Holdo Maneuver'', a scene where Leia using the force to survive being blown into space, awesome visual effects, a cast of likeable characters, and some perfect character development for several characters. It is also agreed Rian gave a delicate direction that was a great departure from audience expectations that helped make the film more interesting at times.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* * VindicatedByHistory: To an extent. Although critics were more positive to it, the film was responded with 'extremely' divisive reviews in the eyes of audiences and old Star Wars fans when it was first released, with many of its detractors claiming that it heralded the ''[[DarthWiki/RuinedForever ruining of the franchise]].'' However, after the release of its much more detested follow-up ''Film/TheRiseOfSkywalker'' (which undid much of ''Last Jedi's'' plot due to Creator/JJAbrams not liking its direction), as well as Disney's newer ''Star Wars'' projects becoming more experimental with the franchise with some either considered better or average, although it still is a very divisive movie to fans as of today, some have begun to look better at ''The Last Jedi'', with it's defenders appreciating its ambition and attempt to deviate from the cookie-cutter blockbuster style of [[Film/TheForceAwakens its predecessor]], and it's strengths like the Throne Room scene, the ''Holdo Maneuver'', a scene where Leia using the force to survive being blown into space, and some perfect character development for several characters. It is also agreed Rian gave a delicate direction that was a great departure from audience expectations that helped make the film more interesting at times.

to:

* * VindicatedByHistory: To an extent. Although critics were more positive to it, the film was responded with 'extremely' divisive reviews in the eyes of audiences and old Star Wars fans when it was first released, with many of its detractors claiming that it heralded the ''[[DarthWiki/RuinedForever ruining of the franchise]].'' However, after the release of its much more detested follow-up ''Film/TheRiseOfSkywalker'' (which undid much of ''Last Jedi's'' plot due to Creator/JJAbrams not liking its direction), as well as Disney's newer ''Star Wars'' projects becoming more experimental with the franchise with some either considered better or average, although it still is a very divisive movie to fans as of today, some have begun to look better at ''The Last Jedi'', with it's defenders appreciating its ambition and attempt to deviate from the cookie-cutter blockbuster style of [[Film/TheForceAwakens its predecessor]], and it's strengths like the Throne Room scene, the ''Holdo Maneuver'', a scene where Leia using the force to survive being blown into space, and some perfect character development for several characters. It is also agreed Rian gave a delicate direction that was a great departure from audience expectations that helped make the film more interesting at times.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* * VindicatedByHistory: To an extent. Although critics were more positive to it, the film was responded with 'extremely' divisive reviews in the eyes of audiences and old Star Wars fans when it was first released, with many of its detractors claiming that it heralded the ''[[DarthWiki/RuinedForever ruining of the franchise]].'' However, after the release of its much more detested follow-up ''Film/TheRiseOfSkywalker'' (which undid much of ''Last Jedi's'' plot due to Creator/JJAbrams not liking its direction), as well as Disney's newer ''Star Wars'' projects becoming more experimental with the franchise with some either considered better or average, although it still is a very divisive movie to fans as of today, some have begun to look better at ''The Last Jedi'', with it's defenders appreciating its ambition and attempt to deviate from the cookie-cutter blockbuster style of [[Film/TheForceAwakens its predecessor]], and it's strengths like the Throne Room scene, the ''Holdo Maneuver'', a scene where Leia using the force to survive being blown into space, and some perfect character development for several characters. It is also agreed Rian gave a delicate direction that was a great departure from audience expectations that helped make the film more interesting at times.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CommonKnowledge: Detractors of the film often cite the inclusion of ships running on fuel as something made up for the film and had no prior existence in canon. In reality, ships were shown being fueled as early as ''Film/ANewHope'', and fuel had been acknowledged in dialogue in ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and further with ''Film/{{Solo}}''. One of the most famous deleted scenes in ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' depicted Anakin and Obi-Wan escaping from General Grievous by jumping into the ''Invisible Hand's'' massive fuel tank.

to:

* CommonKnowledge: Detractors of the film often cite the inclusion of ships running on fuel as something made up for the film and had no prior existence in canon. In reality, ships were shown being fueled as early as ''Film/ANewHope'', and with fuel had also been acknowledged in dialogue in both ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and further with ''Film/{{Solo}}''. One of the most famous deleted scenes in ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' depicted ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith''. The latter film even has a DeletedScene where Anakin and Obi-Wan escaping escape from General Grievous by jumping into the ''Invisible Hand's'' massive fuel tank.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CommonKnowledge: Detractors of the film often cite the inclusion of ships running on fuel as something made up for the film and had no prior existence in canon. In reality, ships were shown being fueled as early as ''Film/ANewHope'', and fuel had been acknowledged in dialogue in ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and further with ''Film/{{Solo}}''.

to:

* CommonKnowledge: Detractors of the film often cite the inclusion of ships running on fuel as something made up for the film and had no prior existence in canon. In reality, ships were shown being fueled as early as ''Film/ANewHope'', and fuel had been acknowledged in dialogue in ''Film/AttackOfTheClones'' and further with ''Film/{{Solo}}''. One of the most famous deleted scenes in ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith'' depicted Anakin and Obi-Wan escaping from General Grievous by jumping into the ''Invisible Hand's'' massive fuel tank.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
YMMV cant be played with. Maybe one day TLJ will truly be vindicated but not yet


* VindicatedByHistory:Downplayed, despite being a critical hit, it was regarded as 'extremely' divisive in the eyes of audiences when it was first released, with many of its detractors claiming that it heralded the [[DarthWiki/RuinedForever death of the franchise]]. However, after the release of its much more detested follow-up ''Film/TheRiseOfSkywalker'' (which undid much of ''Last Jedi's'' plot due to Creator/JJAbrams not liking its direction), as well as Disney's newer ''Star Wars'' projects becoming more experimental with the franchise to varying results (''Series/{{Andor}}'' in particular being considered quite good for its different take on the universe), although it still is a very divisive movie to fans as of today, some have begun to look better at ''The Last Jedi'', with more appreciation due to its ambition and attempt to deviate from the cookie-cutter blockbuster style of [[Film/TheForceAwakens its predecessor]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Fans of the movie called it the best of the trilogy since the moment Ro S came out, little has changed since then. And fixing for easier readability.


* VindicatedByHistory: It was, despite being a critical hit, regarded as 'extremely' divisive in the eyes of audiences when it was first released, with many of its detractors claiming that it heralded the [[DarthWiki/RuinedForever death of the franchise]]. However, after the release of its much more detested follow-up ''Film/TheRiseOfSkywalker'' (which undid much of ''Last Jedi's'' plot due to Creator/JJAbrams not liking its direction), as well as Disney's newer ''Star Wars'' projects becoming more experimental with the franchise to varying results (''Series/{{Andor}}'' in particular being considered quite good for its different take on the universe), many, although it still is a divisive movie to fans as of today, have begun to look better at ''The Last Jedi'', with more appreciation due to its ambition and attempt to deviate from the cookie-cutter blockbuster style of [[Film/TheForceAwakens its predecessor]], with many fans even claiming it to be the best movie in the Sequel Trilogy as a result.

to:

* VindicatedByHistory: It was, VindicatedByHistory:Downplayed, despite being a critical hit, it was regarded as 'extremely' divisive in the eyes of audiences when it was first released, with many of its detractors claiming that it heralded the [[DarthWiki/RuinedForever death of the franchise]]. However, after the release of its much more detested follow-up ''Film/TheRiseOfSkywalker'' (which undid much of ''Last Jedi's'' plot due to Creator/JJAbrams not liking its direction), as well as Disney's newer ''Star Wars'' projects becoming more experimental with the franchise to varying results (''Series/{{Andor}}'' in particular being considered quite good for its different take on the universe), many, although it still is a very divisive movie to fans as of today, some have begun to look better at ''The Last Jedi'', with more appreciation due to its ambition and attempt to deviate from the cookie-cutter blockbuster style of [[Film/TheForceAwakens its predecessor]], with many fans even claiming it to be the best movie in the Sequel Trilogy as a result.predecessor]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* VindicatedByHistory: It was, despite being a critical hit, regarded as 'extremely' divisive in the eyes of audiences when it was first released, with many of its detractors claiming that it heralded the [[DarthWiki/RuinedForever death of the franchise]]. However, after the release of its much more detested follow-up ''Film/TheRiseOfSkywalker'' (which undid much of ''Last Jedi's'' plot due to Creator/JJAbrams not liking its direction), as well as Disney's newer ''Star Wars'' projects becoming more experimental with the franchise to varying results (''Series/{{Andor}}'' in particular being considered quite good for its different take on the universe), many have begun to look better at ''The Last Jedi'', though it remains divisive noneless, with more appreciation due to its ambition and attempt to deviate from the cookie-cutter blockbuster style of [[Film/TheForceAwakens its predecessor]], with many even claiming it to be the best movie in the Sequel Trilogy as a result.

to:

* VindicatedByHistory: It was, despite being a critical hit, regarded as 'extremely' divisive in the eyes of audiences when it was first released, with many of its detractors claiming that it heralded the [[DarthWiki/RuinedForever death of the franchise]]. However, after the release of its much more detested follow-up ''Film/TheRiseOfSkywalker'' (which undid much of ''Last Jedi's'' plot due to Creator/JJAbrams not liking its direction), as well as Disney's newer ''Star Wars'' projects becoming more experimental with the franchise to varying results (''Series/{{Andor}}'' in particular being considered quite good for its different take on the universe), many many, although it still is a divisive movie to fans as of today, have begun to look better at ''The Last Jedi'', though it remains divisive noneless, with more appreciation due to its ambition and attempt to deviate from the cookie-cutter blockbuster style of [[Film/TheForceAwakens its predecessor]], with many fans even claiming it to be the best movie in the Sequel Trilogy as a result.

Top