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* StrawmanHasAPoint: Probably the other issue with the story is that despite London's efforts to [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruct the whole idea]] of [[Creator/FriedrichNietzsche Nietzsche's]] {{Ubermensch}}, [[BigBad Wolf Larsen]] is able to effectively defend his [[StrawNihilist philosophy]] and [[TheSocialDarwinist ideals]] using logic and facts that fit in more with [[ValuesDissonance the present day.]] [[TheProtagonist Van]] [[WideEyedIdealist Weyden,]] by contast, while [[NiceGuy certainly likeable,]] isn't really able to offer decent counter-arguments to Larsen's beliefs, especially since his beliefs, for example, on the soul, may not hold a lot of water with certain readers.

to:

* StrawmanHasAPoint: Probably the other issue with the story is that despite London's efforts to [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruct the whole idea]] of [[Creator/FriedrichNietzsche Nietzsche's]] {{Ubermensch}}, [[BigBad Wolf Larsen]] is able to effectively defend his [[StrawNihilist philosophy]] and [[TheSocialDarwinist ideals]] using logic and facts that fit in more with [[ValuesDissonance the present day.]] [[TheProtagonist Van]] [[WideEyedIdealist Weyden,]] by contast, contrast, while [[NiceGuy certainly likeable,]] isn't really able to offer decent counter-arguments to Larsen's beliefs, especially since his beliefs, for example, on the soul, may not hold a lot of water with certain readers.
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The trope's been cut by TRS.


* JerkassWoobie: [[BigBad Larsen]] is far from the [[JerkWithAHeartOfJerk most sympathetic of people.]] However, not only does he eventually suffer a particularly brutal physical breakdown on account of his [[IllGirl brain tumour,]] but he has to live with [[WhatCouldHaveBeen the biting knowledge]] that despite his [[AmbitionisEvil will]][[{{Determinator}} power,]] [[GeniusBruiser intelligence,]] and [[TheUnfettered ruthless]] nature, the fact that he was born a nobody means that [[ICouldaBeenAContender he will never amount to anything more than a captain of a small ship,]] rather than as Van Weyden points out, a potential [[UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte Napoleon]]. On top of that, while [[StrawNihilist his beliefs]] allow him to [[MoralSociopathy excuse and justify]] some awful shit, [[HoistByHisOwnPetard those same beliefs deprive him of much of the comfort he could have in his frankly meaningless and mean existence.]]

to:

* JerkassWoobie: [[BigBad Larsen]] is far from the [[JerkWithAHeartOfJerk most sympathetic of people.]] However, not only does he eventually suffer a particularly brutal physical breakdown on account of his [[IllGirl brain tumour,]] tumour, but he has to live with [[WhatCouldHaveBeen the biting knowledge]] that despite his [[AmbitionisEvil will]][[{{Determinator}} power,]] [[GeniusBruiser intelligence,]] and [[TheUnfettered ruthless]] nature, the fact that he was born a nobody means that [[ICouldaBeenAContender he will never amount to anything more than a captain of a small ship,]] rather than as Van Weyden points out, a potential [[UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte Napoleon]]. On top of that, while [[StrawNihilist his beliefs]] allow him to [[MoralSociopathy excuse and justify]] some awful shit, [[HoistByHisOwnPetard those same beliefs deprive him of much of the comfort he could have in his frankly meaningless and mean existence.]]
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* JerkassWoobie: As noted on the main page, [[BigBad Larsen]] is far from the [[JerkWithAHeartOfJerk most sympathetic of people.]] However, not only does he eventually suffer a particularly brutal physical breakdown on account of his [[IllGirl brain tumour,]] but he has to live with [[WhatCouldHaveBeen the biting knowledge]] that despite his [[AmbitionisEvil will]][[{{Determinator}} power,]] [[GeniusBruiser intelligence,]] and [[TheUnfettered ruthless]] nature, the fact that he was born a nobody means that [[ICouldaBeenAContender he will never amount to anything more than a captain of a small ship,]] rather than as Van Weyden points out, a potential [[UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte Napoleon]]. On top of that, while [[StrawNihilist his beliefs]] allow him to [[MoralSociopathy excuse and justify]] some awful shit, [[HoistByHisOwnPetard those same beliefs deprive him of much of the comfort he could have in his frankly meaningless and mean existence.]]

to:

* JerkassWoobie: As noted on the main page, [[BigBad Larsen]] is far from the [[JerkWithAHeartOfJerk most sympathetic of people.]] However, not only does he eventually suffer a particularly brutal physical breakdown on account of his [[IllGirl brain tumour,]] but he has to live with [[WhatCouldHaveBeen the biting knowledge]] that despite his [[AmbitionisEvil will]][[{{Determinator}} power,]] [[GeniusBruiser intelligence,]] and [[TheUnfettered ruthless]] nature, the fact that he was born a nobody means that [[ICouldaBeenAContender he will never amount to anything more than a captain of a small ship,]] rather than as Van Weyden points out, a potential [[UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte Napoleon]]. On top of that, while [[StrawNihilist his beliefs]] allow him to [[MoralSociopathy excuse and justify]] some awful shit, [[HoistByHisOwnPetard those same beliefs deprive him of much of the comfort he could have in his frankly meaningless and mean existence.]]
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* DracoInLeatherPants / MisaimedFandom: Fair to say many, perhaps most, fans of the book like it for Wolf Larsen. This is hardly a surprise as he's by far the best written character, and despite London supposedly writing this book as a refutation of such views, Larsen comes out on top of [[StrawmanHasAPoint every single argument in the book]].

to:

* DracoInLeatherPants / MisaimedFandom: DracoInLeatherPants: Fair to say many, perhaps most, fans of the book like it for Wolf Larsen. This is hardly a surprise as he's by far the best written character, and despite London supposedly writing this book as a refutation of such views, Larsen comes out on top of [[StrawmanHasAPoint every single argument in the book]].



* StrawmanHasAPoint / VillainHasAPoint: Probably the other issue with the story is that despite London's efforts to [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruct the whole idea]] of [[Creator/FriedrichNietzsche Nietzsche's]] [[TheUbermensch Ubermensch]], [[BigBad Wolf Larsen]] is able to effectively defend his [[StrawNihilist philosophy]] and [[TheSocialDarwinist ideals]] using logic and facts that fit in more with [[ValuesDissonance the present day.]] [[TheProtagonist Van]] [[WideEyedIdealist Weyden,]] by contast, while [[NiceGuy certainly likeable,]] isn't really able to offer decent counter-arguments to Larsen's beliefs, especially since his beliefs, for example, on the soul, may not hold a lot of water with certain readers.

to:

* StrawmanHasAPoint / VillainHasAPoint: StrawmanHasAPoint: Probably the other issue with the story is that despite London's efforts to [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruct the whole idea]] of [[Creator/FriedrichNietzsche Nietzsche's]] [[TheUbermensch Ubermensch]], {{Ubermensch}}, [[BigBad Wolf Larsen]] is able to effectively defend his [[StrawNihilist philosophy]] and [[TheSocialDarwinist ideals]] using logic and facts that fit in more with [[ValuesDissonance the present day.]] [[TheProtagonist Van]] [[WideEyedIdealist Weyden,]] by contast, while [[NiceGuy certainly likeable,]] isn't really able to offer decent counter-arguments to Larsen's beliefs, especially since his beliefs, for example, on the soul, may not hold a lot of water with certain readers.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* StrawmanHasAPoint / VillainHasAPoint: Probably the other issue with the story is that despite London's efforts to [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruct the whole idea]] of [[FriedrichNietzsche Nietzsche's]] [[TheUbermensch Ubermensch]], [[BigBad Wolf Larsen]] is able to effectively defend his [[StrawNihilist philosophy]] and [[TheSocialDarwinist ideals]] using logic and facts that fit in more with [[ValuesDissonance the present day.]] [[TheProtagonist Van]] [[WideEyedIdealist Weyden,]] by contast, while [[NiceGuy certainly likeable,]] isn't really able to offer decent counter-arguments to Larsen's beliefs, especially since his beliefs, for example, on the soul, may not hold a lot of water with certain readers.

to:

* StrawmanHasAPoint / VillainHasAPoint: Probably the other issue with the story is that despite London's efforts to [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruct the whole idea]] of [[FriedrichNietzsche [[Creator/FriedrichNietzsche Nietzsche's]] [[TheUbermensch Ubermensch]], [[BigBad Wolf Larsen]] is able to effectively defend his [[StrawNihilist philosophy]] and [[TheSocialDarwinist ideals]] using logic and facts that fit in more with [[ValuesDissonance the present day.]] [[TheProtagonist Van]] [[WideEyedIdealist Weyden,]] by contast, while [[NiceGuy certainly likeable,]] isn't really able to offer decent counter-arguments to Larsen's beliefs, especially since his beliefs, for example, on the soul, may not hold a lot of water with certain readers.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* JerkassWoobie: As noted on the main page, [[BigBad Larsen]] is far from the [[JerkwithaHeartofJerk most sympathetic of people.]] However, not only does he eventually suffer a particularly brutal physical breakdown on account of his [[IllGirl brain tumour,]] but he has to live with [[WhatCouldHaveBeen the biting knowledge]] that despite his [[AmbitionisEvil will]][[TheDeterminator power,]] [[GeniusBruiser intelligence,]] and [[TheUnfettered ruthless]] nature, the fact that he was born a nobody means that [[ICouldaBeenaContender he will never amount to anything more than a captain of a small ship,]] rather than as Van Weyden points out, a potential [[NapoleonBonaparte Napoleon.]] On top of that, while [[StrawNihilist his beliefs]] allow him to [[MoralSociopathy excuse and justify]] some awful shit, [[HoistByHisOwnPetard those same beliefs deprive him of much of the comfort he could have in his frankly meaningless and mean existence.]]

to:

* JerkassWoobie: As noted on the main page, [[BigBad Larsen]] is far from the [[JerkwithaHeartofJerk [[JerkWithAHeartOfJerk most sympathetic of people.]] However, not only does he eventually suffer a particularly brutal physical breakdown on account of his [[IllGirl brain tumour,]] but he has to live with [[WhatCouldHaveBeen the biting knowledge]] that despite his [[AmbitionisEvil will]][[TheDeterminator will]][[{{Determinator}} power,]] [[GeniusBruiser intelligence,]] and [[TheUnfettered ruthless]] nature, the fact that he was born a nobody means that [[ICouldaBeenaContender [[ICouldaBeenAContender he will never amount to anything more than a captain of a small ship,]] rather than as Van Weyden points out, a potential [[NapoleonBonaparte Napoleon.]] [[UsefulNotes/NapoleonBonaparte Napoleon]]. On top of that, while [[StrawNihilist his beliefs]] allow him to [[MoralSociopathy excuse and justify]] some awful shit, [[HoistByHisOwnPetard those same beliefs deprive him of much of the comfort he could have in his frankly meaningless and mean existence.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* JerkassWoobie: As noted on the main page and CompleteMonster above, [[BigBad Larsen]] is far from the [[JerkwithaHeartofJerk most sympathetic of people.]] However, not only does he eventually suffer a particularly brutal physical breakdown on account of his [[IllGirl brain tumour,]] but he has to live with [[WhatCouldHaveBeen the biting knowledge]] that despite his [[AmbitionisEvil will]][[TheDeterminator power,]] [[GeniusBruiser intelligence,]] and [[TheUnfettered ruthless]] nature, the fact that he was born a nobody means that [[ICouldaBeenaContender he will never amount to anything more than a captain of a small ship,]] rather than as Van Weyden points out, a potential [[NapoleonBonaparte Napoleon.]] On top of that, while [[StrawNihilist his beliefs]] allow him to [[MoralSociopathy excuse and justify]] some awful shit, [[HoistByHisOwnPetard those same beliefs deprive him of much of the comfort he could have in his frankly meaningless and mean existence.]]

to:

* JerkassWoobie: As noted on the main page and CompleteMonster above, page, [[BigBad Larsen]] is far from the [[JerkwithaHeartofJerk most sympathetic of people.]] However, not only does he eventually suffer a particularly brutal physical breakdown on account of his [[IllGirl brain tumour,]] but he has to live with [[WhatCouldHaveBeen the biting knowledge]] that despite his [[AmbitionisEvil will]][[TheDeterminator power,]] [[GeniusBruiser intelligence,]] and [[TheUnfettered ruthless]] nature, the fact that he was born a nobody means that [[ICouldaBeenaContender he will never amount to anything more than a captain of a small ship,]] rather than as Van Weyden points out, a potential [[NapoleonBonaparte Napoleon.]] On top of that, while [[StrawNihilist his beliefs]] allow him to [[MoralSociopathy excuse and justify]] some awful shit, [[HoistByHisOwnPetard those same beliefs deprive him of much of the comfort he could have in his frankly meaningless and mean existence.]]

Removed: 554

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Please take any Complete Monster examples to the thread.


* CompleteMonster: [[BigBad Wolf Larsen,]] [[BadBoss captain]] of the eponymous Sea Wolf, is a man [[ItsAllAboutMe wholly devoted]] [[TheHedonist to satisfying his own desires,]] and proves willing to engage in [[MadeASlave kidnapping,]] murder, abuse, and outright [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil rape]] to achieve those ends. As [[GeniusBruiser brilliant]] as he is [[TheUnfettered ruthless,]] Larsen proves unusually able in provoking both disgust and awe in both [[DracoInLeatherPants many readers,]] as well as [[NiceGuy Van]] [[WorthyOpponent Weyden.]]
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Added DiffLines:

* JerkassWoobie: As noted on the main page and CompleteMonster above, [[BigBad Larsen]] is far from the [[JerkwithaHeartofJerk most sympathetic of people.]] However, not only does he eventually suffer a particularly brutal physical breakdown on account of his [[IllGirl brain tumour,]] but he has to live with [[WhatCouldHaveBeen the biting knowledge]] that despite his [[AmbitionisEvil will]][[TheDeterminator power,]] [[GeniusBruiser intelligence,]] and [[TheUnfettered ruthless]] nature, the fact that he was born a nobody means that [[ICouldaBeenaContender he will never amount to anything more than a captain of a small ship,]] rather than as Van Weyden points out, a potential [[NapoleonBonaparte Napoleon.]] On top of that, while [[StrawNihilist his beliefs]] allow him to [[MoralSociopathy excuse and justify]] some awful shit, [[HoistByHisOwnPetard those same beliefs deprive him of much of the comfort he could have in his frankly meaningless and mean existence.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* DracoInLeatherPants / MisaimedFandom: Fair to say many, perhaps most, fans of the book like it for Wolf Larsen. This is hardly a surprise as he's by far the best written character, and despite London supposedly writing this book as a refutation of such views, Larsen comes out on top of [[StrawmanHasAPoint every single argument in the book]].

Added: 554

Changed: 2

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* CompleteMonster: [[BigBad Wolf Larsen,]] [[BadBoss captain]] of the eponymous Sea Wolf, is a man [[ItsAllAboutMe wholly devoted]] [[TheHedonist to satisfying his own desires,]] and proves willing to engage in [[MadeASlave kidnapping,]] murder, abuse, and outright [[RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil rape]] to achieve those ends. As [[GeniusBruiser brilliant]] as he is [[TheUnfettered ruthless,]] Larsen proves unusually able in provoking both disgust and awe in both [[DracoInLeatherPants many readers,]] as well as [[NiceGuy Van]] [[WorthyOpponent Weyden.]]



* StrawmanHasAPoint / VillainHasAPoint: Probably the other issue with the story is that despite London's efforts to [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruct the whole idea]] of [[FriedrichNietzsche Nietzsche's]] [[TheUbermensch Ubermensch]], [[BigBad Wolf Larsen]] is able to effectively defend his [[StrawNihilist philosophy]] and [[TheSocialDarwinist ideals]] using logic and facts that fit in more with [[ValuesDissonance the present day.]] [[TheProtagonist Van]] [[WideEyedIdealist Heyden,]] by contast, while [[NiceGuy certainly likeable,]] isn't really able to offer decent counter-arguments to Larsen's beliefs, especially since his beliefs, for example, on the soul, may not hold a lot of water with certain readers.

to:

* StrawmanHasAPoint / VillainHasAPoint: Probably the other issue with the story is that despite London's efforts to [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruct the whole idea]] of [[FriedrichNietzsche Nietzsche's]] [[TheUbermensch Ubermensch]], [[BigBad Wolf Larsen]] is able to effectively defend his [[StrawNihilist philosophy]] and [[TheSocialDarwinist ideals]] using logic and facts that fit in more with [[ValuesDissonance the present day.]] [[TheProtagonist Van]] [[WideEyedIdealist Heyden,]] Weyden,]] by contast, while [[NiceGuy certainly likeable,]] isn't really able to offer decent counter-arguments to Larsen's beliefs, especially since his beliefs, for example, on the soul, may not hold a lot of water with certain readers.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* StrawmanHasApoint/VillainHasaPoint: Probably the other issue with the story is that despite London's efforts to [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruct the whole idea]] of [[FriedrichNietzsche Nietzsche's]] [[Ubermensch Ubermensch]], [[BigBad Wolf Larsen]] is able to effectively defend his [[StrawNihilist philosophy]] and [[TheSocialDarwinist ideals]] using logic and facts that fit in more with [[ValuesDissonance the present day.]] [[TheProtagonist Van]] [[WideEyedIdealist Heyden,]] by contast, while [[NiceGuy certainly likeable,]] isn't really able to offer decent counter-arguments to Larsen's beliefs, especially since his beliefs, for example, on the soul, may not hold a lot of water with certain readers.

to:

* StrawmanHasApoint/VillainHasaPoint: StrawmanHasAPoint / VillainHasAPoint: Probably the other issue with the story is that despite London's efforts to [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruct the whole idea]] of [[FriedrichNietzsche Nietzsche's]] [[Ubermensch [[TheUbermensch Ubermensch]], [[BigBad Wolf Larsen]] is able to effectively defend his [[StrawNihilist philosophy]] and [[TheSocialDarwinist ideals]] using logic and facts that fit in more with [[ValuesDissonance the present day.]] [[TheProtagonist Van]] [[WideEyedIdealist Heyden,]] by contast, while [[NiceGuy certainly likeable,]] isn't really able to offer decent counter-arguments to Larsen's beliefs, especially since his beliefs, for example, on the soul, may not hold a lot of water with certain readers.
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None


* RomanticPlotTumor: The romance between Humphrey and Maud is often considered the worst part of the book. Creator/AmbroseBierce himself said as such, adding that the real draw of the book is Wolf Larsen.

to:

* RomanticPlotTumor: The romance between Humphrey and Maud is often considered the worst part of the book. Creator/AmbroseBierce himself said as such, adding that the real draw of the book is Wolf Larsen.Larsen.
* StrawmanHasApoint/VillainHasaPoint: Probably the other issue with the story is that despite London's efforts to [[DeconstructedTrope deconstruct the whole idea]] of [[FriedrichNietzsche Nietzsche's]] [[Ubermensch Ubermensch]], [[BigBad Wolf Larsen]] is able to effectively defend his [[StrawNihilist philosophy]] and [[TheSocialDarwinist ideals]] using logic and facts that fit in more with [[ValuesDissonance the present day.]] [[TheProtagonist Van]] [[WideEyedIdealist Heyden,]] by contast, while [[NiceGuy certainly likeable,]] isn't really able to offer decent counter-arguments to Larsen's beliefs, especially since his beliefs, for example, on the soul, may not hold a lot of water with certain readers.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* RomanticPlotTumor: The romance between Humphrey and Maud is often considered the worst part of the book. Creator/AmbroseBierce himself said as such, adding that the real draw of the book is Wolf Larsen.

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