Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / TheKingsMan

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Germany really did propose an [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_Telegram alliance with Mexico]] in order to keep the United States out of UsefulNotes/WorldWar1. Making the Zimmerman Telegram was also a very difficult task, though not because of an international cabal of weirdos. The British needed it to be made public in a way that didn't let the Germans know the former had cracked the latter's cyphers.

to:

** Germany really did propose an [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_Telegram alliance with Mexico]] in order to keep the United States out of UsefulNotes/WorldWar1. Making the Zimmerman Telegram public was also a very difficult task, though not because of an international cabal of weirdos. The British needed it to be made public in a way that didn't let the Germans know the former had cracked the latter's cyphers.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


----



** The aftermath of the final battle. [[spoiler:Yes, Orlando has finally taken out the mastermind behind World War I, along with all his cronies. But the way Orlando solemnly kisses Conrad's Victoria Cross medal serves to show that no amount of enemies killed will ever bring back his son]].

to:

** The aftermath of the final battle. [[spoiler:Yes, Orlando has finally taken out the mastermind behind World War I, along with all his cronies. But the way Orlando solemnly kisses Conrad's Victoria Cross medal serves to show that no amount of enemies killed will ever bring back his son]].son.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Captain Maximilian Morton]], aka "the Shepherd", is the spearhead of the conspirators called "the Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, Morton uses his co-conspirators--who he has spread around the world and who he also horribly mistreats, insisting they be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised--to first have [[UsefulNotes/FranzFerdinandOfAustria Archduke Franz Ferdinand]] assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. Morton also fakes his death by having the ship of his boss Herbert Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including Duke Orlando Oxford's son Conrad. Morton also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. Morton also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war, and when confronted by Orlando, Morton insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.

to:

** [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist [[spoiler:[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Captain Maximilian Morton]], aka "the Shepherd", is the spearhead of the conspirators called "the Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, Morton uses his co-conspirators--who he has spread around the world and who he also horribly mistreats, insisting they be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised--to first have [[UsefulNotes/FranzFerdinandOfAustria Archduke Franz Ferdinand]] assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. Morton also fakes his death by having the ship of his boss Herbert Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including Duke Orlando Oxford's son Conrad. Morton also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. Morton also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war, and when confronted by Orlando, Morton insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
The legend was just a legend. Rasputin most likely died after being stabbed.


** In keeping with the legends of his unkillability, Rasputin is poisoned, stabbed, shot, and drowned.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Was reverting the unapproved CM changes.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** [[spoiler:[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Captain Maximilian Morton]]]], aka "the Shepherd", is the spearhead of the conspirators called "the Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, [[spoiler:Morton]] uses his co-conspirators--who he has spread around the world and who he also horribly mistreats, insisting they be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised--to first have [[UsefulNotes/FranzFerdinandOfAustria Archduke Franz Ferdinand]] assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. [[spoiler:Morton]] also [[spoiler:fakes his death]] by having the ship of [[spoiler:his boss]] Herbert Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including [[spoiler:Orlando's son Conrad. Morton]] also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. [[spoiler:Morton]] also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war, and when confronted by Orlando, [[spoiler:Morton]] insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.
** [[HistoricalVillainUpgrade Erik Jan Hanussen]], aka "the Dog", is a wealthy sociopath who serves as Kaiser Wilhelm's scheming advisor. After joining the Flock, Hanussen [[ManipulativeBastard manipulates]] the Kaiser into starting World War I and helps the Shepherd plunge Europe, including his own country, into one of the worst conflicts in human history, costing millions upon millions of lives. Later, Hanussen plots to more easily starve Britain to death with a blockade by attempting to have Mexico invade America, starting a new war which would keep the United States too busy to intervene. [[spoiler:After [[DragonAscendant becoming the new Shepherd]], Hanussen recruits UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler to the Flock, having him force Wilhelm to abdicate then sending him to execute the entire Russian monarchy, including the children, planning to put Hitler into power and start a new global war alongside him and UsefulNotes/VladimirLenin.]]

to:

** [[spoiler:[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Captain Maximilian Morton]]]], Morton]], aka "the Shepherd", is the spearhead of the conspirators called "the Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, [[spoiler:Morton]] Morton uses his co-conspirators--who he has spread around the world and who he also horribly mistreats, insisting they be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised--to first have [[UsefulNotes/FranzFerdinandOfAustria Archduke Franz Ferdinand]] assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. [[spoiler:Morton]] Morton also [[spoiler:fakes fakes his death]] death by having the ship of [[spoiler:his boss]] his boss Herbert Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including [[spoiler:Orlando's Duke Orlando Oxford's son Conrad. Morton]] Morton also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. [[spoiler:Morton]] Morton also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war, and when confronted by Orlando, [[spoiler:Morton]] Morton insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.
** [[HistoricalVillainUpgrade Erik Jan Hanussen]], aka "the Dog", is a wealthy sociopath who serves as Kaiser Wilhelm's scheming advisor. After joining the Flock, Hanussen [[ManipulativeBastard manipulates]] the Kaiser into starting World War I and helps the Shepherd plunge Europe, including his own country, into one of the worst conflicts in human history, costing millions upon millions of lives. Later, Hanussen plots to more easily starve Britain to death with a blockade by attempting to have Mexico invade America, starting a new war which would keep the United States too busy to intervene. [[spoiler:After After [[DragonAscendant becoming the new Shepherd]], Hanussen recruits UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler to the Flock, having him force Wilhelm to abdicate then sending him to execute the entire Russian monarchy, including the children, planning to put Hitler into power and start a new global war alongside him and UsefulNotes/VladimirLenin.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Basically ''everything'' concerning Rasputin. His dialogue, mannerisms, and appearance are equal parts silly and downright terrifying thanks to the sheer amount of effort Rhys Ifans puts into playing the role. In any other performance, the antagonist announcing "Time to dance... on your graves" before busting into ''dance fighting set to the 1812 Overture'' would be pure {{Narm}} but Ifans makes everything come together. It doesn't hurt that the fight choreography is genuinely impressive and incorporates Rasputin's dancing in unique ways.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** [[spoiler:[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Captain Maximilian Morton]]]], aka "the Shepherd", is the spearhead of the conspirators called "the Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, Morton uses his co-conspirators--who he has spread around the world and who he also horribly mistreats, insisting they be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised--to first have [[UsefulNotes/FranzFerdinandOfAustria Archduke Franz Ferdinand]] assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. Morton also [[spoiler:fakes his death]] by having the ship of [[spoiler:his boss]] Herbert Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including Orlando's son Conrad. Morton also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. Morton also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war, and when confronted by Orlando, Morton insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.
** [[HistoricalVillainUpgrade Erik Jan Hanussen]], aka "the Dog", is a wealthy sociopath who serves as Kaiser Wilhelm's scheming advisor. After joining the Flock, Hanussen [[ManipulativeBastard manipulates]] the Kaiser into starting World War I and helps the Shepherd plunge Europe, including his own country, into one of the worst conflicts in human history, costing millions upon millions of lives. Later, Hanussen plots to more easily starve Britain to death with a blockade by attempting to have Mexico invade America, starting a new war which would keep the United States too busy to intervene. After [[DragonAscendant becoming the new Shepherd]], Hanussen recruits UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler to the Flock, having him force Wilhelm to abdicate then sending him to execute the entire Russian monarchy, including the children, planning to put Hitler into power and start a new global war alongside him and UsefulNotes/VladimirLenin.

to:

** [[spoiler:[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Captain Maximilian Morton]]]], aka "the Shepherd", is the spearhead of the conspirators called "the Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, Morton [[spoiler:Morton]] uses his co-conspirators--who he has spread around the world and who he also horribly mistreats, insisting they be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised--to first have [[UsefulNotes/FranzFerdinandOfAustria Archduke Franz Ferdinand]] assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. Morton [[spoiler:Morton]] also [[spoiler:fakes his death]] by having the ship of [[spoiler:his boss]] Herbert Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including Orlando's [[spoiler:Orlando's son Conrad. Morton Morton]] also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. Morton [[spoiler:Morton]] also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war, and when confronted by Orlando, Morton [[spoiler:Morton]] insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.
** [[HistoricalVillainUpgrade Erik Jan Hanussen]], aka "the Dog", is a wealthy sociopath who serves as Kaiser Wilhelm's scheming advisor. After joining the Flock, Hanussen [[ManipulativeBastard manipulates]] the Kaiser into starting World War I and helps the Shepherd plunge Europe, including his own country, into one of the worst conflicts in human history, costing millions upon millions of lives. Later, Hanussen plots to more easily starve Britain to death with a blockade by attempting to have Mexico invade America, starting a new war which would keep the United States too busy to intervene. After [[spoiler:After [[DragonAscendant becoming the new Shepherd]], Hanussen recruits UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler to the Flock, having him force Wilhelm to abdicate then sending him to execute the entire Russian monarchy, including the children, planning to put Hitler into power and start a new global war alongside him and UsefulNotes/VladimirLenin.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** [[spoiler:[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Captain Maximilian Morton]]]], aka "the Shepherd", is the spearhead of the conspirators called "the Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, Morton uses his co-conspirators--who he has spread around the world and who he also horribly mistreats, insisting they be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised--to first have [[UsefulNotes/FranzFerdinandOfAustria Archduke Franz Ferdinand]] assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. Morton also fakes his death by having the ship of his boss Herbert Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including Orlando's son Conrad. Morton also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. Morton also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war, and when confronted by Orlando, Morton insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.

to:

** [[spoiler:[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Captain Maximilian Morton]]]], aka "the Shepherd", is the spearhead of the conspirators called "the Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, Morton uses his co-conspirators--who he has spread around the world and who he also horribly mistreats, insisting they be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised--to first have [[UsefulNotes/FranzFerdinandOfAustria Archduke Franz Ferdinand]] assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. Morton also fakes [[spoiler:fakes his death death]] by having the ship of his boss [[spoiler:his boss]] Herbert Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including Orlando's son Conrad. Morton also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. Morton also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war, and when confronted by Orlando, Morton insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:

Added DiffLines:

* AluminumChristmasTrees:
** The monarchs of the UK, Germany and Russia looking similar enough to be played by the same actor might strike viewers as an anvilicious way of showing WWI as a huge family squabble, but the truth is that at least George and Nicholas [[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Tsar_Nicholas_II_%26_King_George_V.JPG did indeed look so much alike they could pass as twins.]] George was first cousin to both Nicholas and Wilhelm, and the latter two were third cousins. Hence the uncanny resemblance is just, y'know, ''canny''.
** Germany really did propose an [[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_Telegram alliance with Mexico]] in order to keep the United States out of UsefulNotes/WorldWar1. Making the Zimmerman Telegram was also a very difficult task, though not because of an international cabal of weirdos. The British needed it to be made public in a way that didn't let the Germans know the former had cracked the latter's cyphers.
** In keeping with the legends of his unkillability, Rasputin is poisoned, stabbed, shot, and drowned.

Added: 499

Changed: 54

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** A British soldier has his left ankle smashed by a German soldier's hammer. He can only scream in pain until the German silences him with another blow to the face with that same weapon.

to:

*** A British soldier has his left ankle smashed by a German soldier's hammer. He can only scream in pain until the German silences him with another hammer blow to the face with that same weapon.face.



*** The British commanding officer helps a cornered Conrad by shooting the German approaching him. But this alerts both the British and German forces, who unleash Gatling gun fire on the battlefield. Conrad can only shout a BigNo as the British commanding officer and his German opponent get bloodily shot several times, before their bodies limply fall on the floor.

to:

*** The British commanding officer helps a cornered Conrad by shooting the German approaching him. But this alerts both the British and German forces, who unleash Gatling gun fire on the battlefield. Conrad can only shout a BigNo as the British commanding officer and his German opponent get bloodily shot several times, before their limp bodies limply fall.
** [[spoiler:Conrad]]'s unexpected death. [[spoiler:One minute, he ran through a battlefield while carrying an injured British spy. The next, he's confronted by a fellow soldier for impersonating Archie, which ends with him being suddenly shot in the head due to a ''misunderstanding''. We then see Conrad's body
fall on in slow-motion, with his eyes rolling back as he hits the floor.floor]]. This entire moment not only hammers home the futility of war, but also how easy it is to die in a place like this.

Added: 573

Changed: 266

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** This orchestral piece in the teaser trailer: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC-MPhacDGk Xap's "The Hit House"]]. It works well with the MickeyMousing in action sequences, whether it's a line of soldiers being gunned down by rifle fire, sword fights or the final chanting montage at the end.
** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQUXuQ6Zd9w "War Pigs"]] by Music/BlackSabbath which was used in the official trailer. The lyrics from the first stanza perfectly fit the scenes shown in the trailer, and it keeps the trend of using awesome rock songs in the ''Film/{{Kingsman}}'' franchise going.

to:

** This orchestral piece in the teaser trailer: [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DC-MPhacDGk Xap's "The Hit House"]]. House."]] It works well with the MickeyMousing in action sequences, whether it's a line of soldiers being gunned down by rifle fire, sword fights or the final chanting montage at the end.
** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQUXuQ6Zd9w "War Pigs"]] by Music/BlackSabbath which was used in the official trailer. The lyrics from the first stanza perfectly fit the scenes shown in the trailer, and it keeps the trend of using awesome rock songs in the ''Film/{{Kingsman}}'' franchise going.



** [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Captain Maximilian Morton]], aka "the Shepherd", is the spearhead of the conspirators called "the Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, Morton uses his co-conspirators--who he has spread around the world and who he also horribly mistreats, insisting they be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised--to first have [[UsefulNotes/FranzFerdinandOfAustria Archduke Franz Ferdinand]] assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. Morton also fakes his death by having the ship of his boss Herbert Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including Orlando's son Conrad. Morton also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. Morton also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war, and when confronted by Orlando, Morton insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.

to:

** [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist [[spoiler:[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Captain Maximilian Morton]], Morton]]]], aka "the Shepherd", is the spearhead of the conspirators called "the Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, Morton uses his co-conspirators--who he has spread around the world and who he also horribly mistreats, insisting they be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised--to first have [[UsefulNotes/FranzFerdinandOfAustria Archduke Franz Ferdinand]] assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. Morton also fakes his death by having the ship of his boss Herbert Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including Orlando's son Conrad. Morton also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. Morton also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war, and when confronted by Orlando, Morton insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.



* FanDislikedExplanation: Critics and audiences were rather underwhelmed by [[spoiler: The Shepherd's - aka Captain Morton's -]] reason for wanting to destroy England: [[spoiler: He's a Scotsman who hates what England did to his country, plus how English aristocrats stole his family mill, and he wants to pay them back.]] While that's not to say that [[spoiler: a vengeful Scot isn't an interesting plot device,]] the manner in which the film addresses it is half-baked and somewhat brushed over, since we never see ''how'' exactly he [[spoiler: assembled an international coalition of supervillains and bent them all to his unquestioned will. Some have stated that an Irish nationalist would be a more understandable villain, not least because Ireland ''did'' gain independence shortly following (and arguably as a result of) World War I]].

to:

* FanDislikedExplanation: Critics and audiences were rather underwhelmed by [[spoiler: The Shepherd's - aka Captain Morton's -]] reason for wanting to destroy England: [[spoiler: He's [[spoiler:He's a Scotsman who hates what England did to his country, plus how English aristocrats stole his family mill, and he wants to pay them back.]] While that's not to say that [[spoiler: a vengeful Scot isn't an interesting plot device,]] the manner in which the film addresses it is half-baked and somewhat brushed over, since we never see ''how'' exactly he [[spoiler: assembled [[spoiler:assembled an international coalition of supervillains and bent them all to his unquestioned will. Some have stated that an Irish nationalist would be a more understandable villain, not least because Ireland ''did'' gain independence shortly following (and arguably as a result of) World War I]].



* {{Narm}}: "UsefulNotes/WorldWarI movie sequel-baits UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler" is usually supposed to be a joke making fun of franchises and {{Sequel Hook}}s, [[spoiler:but ''The King's Man'' unironically does this in TheStinger complete with dramatic sting.]]

to:

* {{Narm}}: {{Narm}}:
**
"UsefulNotes/WorldWarI movie sequel-baits UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler" is usually supposed to be a joke making fun of franchises and {{Sequel Hook}}s, [[spoiler:but ''The King's Man'' unironically does this in TheStinger complete with dramatic sting.]]
** [[spoiler:The Duke mentioning how he has grown into the person that his son would have been shortly before killing the Shepherd could easily have been a satisfying moment of CharacterDevelopment, but he says it so bluntly that it almost comes across as being shoehorned in in order to make a more definitive CallBack.
]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* EnsembleDarkhorse: Most of the professional reviews (and quite a few of the non-professional ones) claim Rasputin as the best part of the film and find it a shame he's ultimately a [[AdvertisedExtra bit part.]]

to:

* EnsembleDarkhorse: Most of the professional reviews (and quite a few of the non-professional ones) claim Rasputin as the best part of the film and find it a shame he's ultimately a [[AdvertisedExtra bit part.]]StarterVillain.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* FanDislikedExplanation: Critics and audiences were rather underwhelmed by [[spoiler: The Shepherd's - aka Captain Morton's -]] reason for wanting to destroy England: [[spoiler: He's a Scotsman who hates what England did to his country, plus how English aristocrats stole his family mill, and he wants to pay them back.]] While that's not to say that [[spoiler: a vengeful Scot isn't an interesting plot device,]] the manner in which the film addresses it is half-baked and somewhat brushed over, since we never see ''how'' exactly he [[spoiler: assembled an international coalition of supervillains and bent them all to his unquestioned will. Some have stated that an Irish nationalist would be a more understandable villain]].

to:

* FanDislikedExplanation: Critics and audiences were rather underwhelmed by [[spoiler: The Shepherd's - aka Captain Morton's -]] reason for wanting to destroy England: [[spoiler: He's a Scotsman who hates what England did to his country, plus how English aristocrats stole his family mill, and he wants to pay them back.]] While that's not to say that [[spoiler: a vengeful Scot isn't an interesting plot device,]] the manner in which the film addresses it is half-baked and somewhat brushed over, since we never see ''how'' exactly he [[spoiler: assembled an international coalition of supervillains and bent them all to his unquestioned will. Some have stated that an Irish nationalist would be a more understandable villain]].villain, not least because Ireland ''did'' gain independence shortly following (and arguably as a result of) World War I]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* FridgeBrilliance: Why is the Scottish soldier [[spoiler:so hasty in shooting Conrad after mistaking him for a traitor? It was likely he was friends with the real Archie Reid and presumed Conrad performed a KillAndReplace on him, so he killed him in revenge. There was also a chance that the "German spy" may set off a grenade or something in an attempt in TakingYouWithMe.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ShockingMoments: Many people were left speechless by [[spoiler:Conrad's death]] in the second act, both in concept and execution. They thought that [[spoiler:Conrad would follow in his father's pacifist footsteps after witnessing the horrors of war. [[UndignifiedDeath Instead, he's abruptly shot by a fellow British soldier who mistook him for a German spy]]]]. It also serves as a dark(er) mirror of [[spoiler:Harry's death in [[Film/KingsmanTheSecretService the first film]], with the learner/[[OutlivingTheOffspring son]] in the film's central mentoring relationship being the one to die instead of [[MentorOccupationalHazard the mentor]]/father figure]].

to:

* ShockingMoments: Many people were left speechless by [[spoiler:Conrad's death]] in the second act, both in concept and execution. They thought that [[spoiler:Conrad would follow in his father's pacifist footsteps after witnessing the horrors of war. [[UndignifiedDeath Instead, he's abruptly shot by a fellow British soldier who mistook him for a German spy]]]]. It also serves as a dark(er) mirror of [[spoiler:Harry's death in [[Film/KingsmanTheSecretService the first film]], with the learner/[[OutlivingTheOffspring learner/[[OutlivingOnesOffspring son]] in the film's central mentoring relationship being the one to die instead of [[MentorOccupationalHazard the mentor]]/father figure]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Captain Maximilian Morton]], aka "the Shepherd", is the spearhead of the conspirators called "the Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, Morton uses his co-conspirators--who he has spread around the world and who he also horribly mistreats, insisting they be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised--to first have [[UsefulNotes/FranzFerdinandOfAustria Archduke Franz Ferdinand]] assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. Morton also fakes his death by having the ship of his boss Herbert Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including Duke Orlando Oxford's son Conrad. Morton also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. Morton also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war, and when confronted by Orlando, Morton insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.

to:

** [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Captain Maximilian Morton]], aka "the Shepherd", is the spearhead of the conspirators called "the Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, Morton uses his co-conspirators--who he has spread around the world and who he also horribly mistreats, insisting they be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised--to first have [[UsefulNotes/FranzFerdinandOfAustria Archduke Franz Ferdinand]] assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. Morton also fakes his death by having the ship of his boss Herbert Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including Duke Orlando Oxford's Orlando's son Conrad. Morton also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. Morton also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war, and when confronted by Orlando, Morton insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Helps hide the surprise a little better.


* ShockingMoments: Many people were left speechless by [[spoiler:Conrad]]'s death in the second act, both in concept and execution. They thought that [[spoiler:Conrad would follow in his father's pacifist footsteps after witnessing the horrors of war. [[UndignifiedDeath Instead, he's abruptly shot by a fellow British soldier who mistook him for a German spy]]]]. It also serves as a dark(er) mirror of [[spoiler:Harry's death in [[Film/KingsmanTheSecretService the first film]], with the learner/[[OutlivingTheOffspring son]] in the film's central mentoring relationship being the one to die instead of [[MentorOccupationalHazard the mentor]]/father figure]].

to:

* ShockingMoments: Many people were left speechless by [[spoiler:Conrad]]'s death [[spoiler:Conrad's death]] in the second act, both in concept and execution. They thought that [[spoiler:Conrad would follow in his father's pacifist footsteps after witnessing the horrors of war. [[UndignifiedDeath Instead, he's abruptly shot by a fellow British soldier who mistook him for a German spy]]]]. It also serves as a dark(er) mirror of [[spoiler:Harry's death in [[Film/KingsmanTheSecretService the first film]], with the learner/[[OutlivingTheOffspring son]] in the film's central mentoring relationship being the one to die instead of [[MentorOccupationalHazard the mentor]]/father figure]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* NarmCharm: The entire historical conspiracy is ridiculous but somehow intriguing.

Added: 792

Changed: 1516

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Approved by the thread.


** "[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist The Shepherd]]", really [[TheDogWasTheMastermind Captain Maximilian Morton]], is the spearhead of the conspirators called "The Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, he uses his co-conspirators spread around the world--who he also horribly mistreats and insists be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised—-to first have Archduke Franz Ferdinand assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. As Morton, the Shepherd also fakes his death by having the ship of his boss Herbert Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including Duke Orlando Oxford's son Conrad. The Shepherd also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. The Shepherd also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war and when confronted by Orlando, the Shepherd insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.
** [[UsefulNotes/RasputinTheMadMonk Grigori Rasputin]], aka the Tortoise, is a Russian mystic with an ill and unpleasant temper who's deeply involved in the World War I conspiracy as well. Unlike the others in the Flock, he even shows clear disrespect to the Shepherd, only falling in line under the threat of death. Using his influence on Tzar Nicholas, Rasputin regularly warns of hexes and curses that will befall the latter's family if he doesn't submit to his whims, and on one particular occasion, fulfills a specific part of the plan by [[WouldHurtAChild poisoning the Tzar's young son]] in order to manipulate Russia out of the war. When confronted and nearly assassinated by Orlando, Conrad, and Shola, Rasputin nearly succeeds in killing them all.

to:

** "[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist The Shepherd]]", really [[TheDogWasTheMastermind [[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist Captain Maximilian Morton]], aka "the Shepherd", is the spearhead of the conspirators called "The "the Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, he Morton uses his co-conspirators co-conspirators--who he has spread around the world--who world and who he also horribly mistreats and insists mistreats, insisting they be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised—-to compromised--to first have [[UsefulNotes/FranzFerdinandOfAustria Archduke Franz Ferdinand Ferdinand]] assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. As Morton, the Shepherd Morton also fakes his death by having the ship of his boss Herbert Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including Duke Orlando Oxford's son Conrad. The Shepherd Morton also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. The Shepherd Morton also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war war, and when confronted by Orlando, the Shepherd Morton insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.
** [[UsefulNotes/RasputinTheMadMonk Grigori Rasputin]], [[HistoricalVillainUpgrade Erik Jan Hanussen]], aka "the Dog", is a wealthy sociopath who serves as Kaiser Wilhelm's scheming advisor. After joining the Tortoise, Flock, Hanussen [[ManipulativeBastard manipulates]] the Kaiser into starting World War I and helps the Shepherd plunge Europe, including his own country, into one of the worst conflicts in human history, costing millions upon millions of lives. Later, Hanussen plots to more easily starve Britain to death with a blockade by attempting to have Mexico invade America, starting a new war which would keep the United States too busy to intervene. After [[DragonAscendant becoming the new Shepherd]], Hanussen recruits UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler to the Flock, having him force Wilhelm to abdicate then sending him to execute the entire Russian monarchy, including the children, planning to put Hitler into power and start a new global war alongside him and UsefulNotes/VladimirLenin.
** UsefulNotes/GrigoriRasputin, aka "the Tortoise",
is a Russian mystic with an ill and unpleasant temper who's deeply involved in the World War I conspiracy as well. Unlike the others in the Flock, he Rasputin even shows clear disrespect to the Shepherd, only falling in line under the threat of death. [[TreacherousAdvisor Using his influence on Tzar Nicholas, Nicholas]], Rasputin regularly warns of hexes and curses that will befall the latter's family if he doesn't submit to his whims, and on one particular occasion, fulfills a specific part of the plan by [[WouldHurtAChild poisoning the Tzar's young son]] in order to manipulate Russia out of the war. When confronted and nearly assassinated by Orlando, Conrad, and Shola, Rasputin [[HistoricalBadassUpgrade Rasputin]] nearly succeeds in killing them all.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* ShockingMoments: Many people were left speechless by [[spoiler:Conrad]]'s death in the second act, both in concept and execution. They thought that [[spoiler:Conrad would follow in his father's pacifist footsteps after witnessing the horrors of war. [[UndignifiedDeath Instead, he's abruptly shot by a fellow British soldier who mistook him for a German spy]]]].

to:

* ShockingMoments: Many people were left speechless by [[spoiler:Conrad]]'s death in the second act, both in concept and execution. They thought that [[spoiler:Conrad would follow in his father's pacifist footsteps after witnessing the horrors of war. [[UndignifiedDeath Instead, he's abruptly shot by a fellow British soldier who mistook him for a German spy]]]]. It also serves as a dark(er) mirror of [[spoiler:Harry's death in [[Film/KingsmanTheSecretService the first film]], with the learner/[[OutlivingTheOffspring son]] in the film's central mentoring relationship being the one to die instead of [[MentorOccupationalHazard the mentor]]/father figure]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Approved by the thread.


** "[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist The Shepherd]]", really [[TheDogWasTheMastermind Captain Morton]], is the spearhead of the conspirators called "The Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, he uses his co-conspirators spread around the world--who he also horribly mistreats and insists be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised—-to first have Archduke Franz Ferdinand assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. As Morton, the Shepherd also fakes his death by having the ship of his boss Frank Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including Duke Orlando Oxford's son Conrad. The Shepherd also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. The Shepherd also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war and when confronted by Orlando, the Shepherd insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.

to:

** "[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist The Shepherd]]", really [[TheDogWasTheMastermind Captain Maximilian Morton]], is the spearhead of the conspirators called "The Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, he uses his co-conspirators spread around the world--who he also horribly mistreats and insists be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised—-to first have Archduke Franz Ferdinand assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. As Morton, the Shepherd also fakes his death by having the ship of his boss Frank Herbert Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including Duke Orlando Oxford's son Conrad. The Shepherd also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. The Shepherd also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war and when confronted by Orlando, the Shepherd insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Waiting for proper approval.


** "[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist The Shepherd]]", really [[TheDogWasTheMastermind Captain Morton]], is the spearhead of the conspirators called "The Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, he uses his co-conspirators spread around the world--who he also horribly mistreats and insists be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised—-to first have Archduke Franz Ferdinand assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. As Morton, the Shepherd also fakes his death by having the ship of his boss Herbert Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including Duke Orlando Oxford's son Conrad. The Shepherd also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. The Shepherd also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war and when confronted by Orlando, the Shepherd insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.

to:

** "[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist The Shepherd]]", really [[TheDogWasTheMastermind Captain Morton]], is the spearhead of the conspirators called "The Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, he uses his co-conspirators spread around the world--who he also horribly mistreats and insists be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised—-to first have Archduke Franz Ferdinand assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. As Morton, the Shepherd also fakes his death by having the ship of his boss Herbert Frank Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including Duke Orlando Oxford's son Conrad. The Shepherd also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. The Shepherd also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war and when confronted by Orlando, the Shepherd insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Edits for CM must be approved through the thread. Bringing this one change to the thread.


** "[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist The Shepherd]]", really [[spoiler:[[TheDogWasTheMastermind Captain Morton]]]], is the spearhead of the conspirators called "The Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, he uses his co-conspirators spread around the world--who he also horribly mistreats and insists be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised—-to first have Archduke Franz Ferdinand assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. As [[spoiler:Morton, the Shepherd]] also fakes his death by having [[spoiler:the ship of his boss Herbert Kitchener]] blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including [[spoiler:Duke Orlando's son Conrad]]. The Shepherd also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. The Shepherd also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war and when confronted by Orlando, the Shepherd insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.

to:

** "[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist The Shepherd]]", really [[spoiler:[[TheDogWasTheMastermind [[TheDogWasTheMastermind Captain Morton]]]], Morton]], is the spearhead of the conspirators called "The Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, he uses his co-conspirators spread around the world--who he also horribly mistreats and insists be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised—-to first have Archduke Franz Ferdinand assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. As [[spoiler:Morton, Morton, the Shepherd]] Shepherd also fakes his death by having [[spoiler:the the ship of his boss Herbert Kitchener]] Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including [[spoiler:Duke Orlando's Duke Orlando Oxford's son Conrad]].Conrad. The Shepherd also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. The Shepherd also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war and when confronted by Orlando, the Shepherd insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Corrected character names. Kitchener's name is Herbert (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Kitchener,_1st_Earl_Kitchener); a duke is never referred to as "Duke Orlando Oxford" any more than you'd refer to "Queen Elizabeth England". Also added spoiler tags to the plot point that Kitchener is blown up, as knowing this makes it fairly obvious who the person faking his death is.


** "[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist The Shepherd]]", really [[spoiler:[[TheDogWasTheMastermind Captain Morton]]]], is the spearhead of the conspirators called "The Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, he uses his co-conspirators spread around the world--who he also horribly mistreats and insists be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised—-to first have Archduke Franz Ferdinand assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. As [[spoiler:Morton, the Shepherd also fakes his death by having the ship of his boss]] William Kitchener blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including [[spoiler:Duke Orlando Oxford's son Conrad]]. The Shepherd also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. The Shepherd also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war and when confronted by Orlando, the Shepherd insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.

to:

** "[[NotSoWellIntentionedExtremist The Shepherd]]", really [[spoiler:[[TheDogWasTheMastermind Captain Morton]]]], is the spearhead of the conspirators called "The Flock" that kick-start UsefulNotes/WorldWarI. Wanting to punish England on behalf of Scotland, he uses his co-conspirators spread around the world--who he also horribly mistreats and insists be ready with [[CyanidePill cyanide]] when compromised—-to first have Archduke Franz Ferdinand assassinated and then coaxes England, Germany, and Russia to start fighting each other. As [[spoiler:Morton, the Shepherd Shepherd]] also fakes his death by having the [[spoiler:the ship of his boss]] William Kitchener boss Herbert Kitchener]] blown up with everybody on board. Numerous soldiers on each side end up killed in the war as well, including [[spoiler:Duke Orlando Oxford's Orlando's son Conrad]]. The Shepherd also wants to arrange for Russia to pull out so Germany will focus all its resources on England instead. The Shepherd also blackmails US President UsefulNotes/WoodrowWilson to keep America out of the war and when confronted by Orlando, the Shepherd insists they duel honorably, only to try to kill him with a concealed pistol instead.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The silent, nighttime knife fight between the German and British soldiers in No Man's Land, along with the [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmZEeOOzzoY pulse-pounding music]] that accompanies it. Both sides do not hesitate to brutally kill their enemies, with two deaths deserving special mentions:

to:

** The silent, nighttime knife fight between the German and British soldiers in No Man's Land, along with the [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmZEeOOzzoY pulse-pounding music]] that accompanies it. Both sides do not hesitate to brutally kill their enemies, with two several of their deaths deserving special mentions:



*** Another British is overwhelmed by two Germans and is stabbed over and over, futilely reaching out to Conrad for help.

to:

*** Another British soldier is overwhelmed by two Germans and is stabbed over and over, futilely reaching out to Conrad for help.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** [[spoiler:Conrad's death and the depression that Orlando suffers from after it. Upon hearing the news from Archie, Orlando's reduced to a sobbing mess hugging a photograph of his son, alternating between tearfully apologizing to the portrait of his wife for failing to keep his promise to protect Conrad and crying for Polly to comfort him.]] During this moment, Shola can only watch with teary eyes.

to:

** [[spoiler:Conrad's death and the depression that Orlando suffers from after it. Upon hearing the news from Archie, Orlando's reduced to a sobbing mess hugging a photograph of his son, alternating between tearfully apologizing to looking at the portrait of his wife for failing in shame over his failure to keep his promise to protect Conrad her and crying for Polly to comfort him.]] During this moment, Shola can only watch with teary eyes.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** [[spoiler:After jumping into a ditch to avoid the British and Germans firing upon him, [[CryLaughing Conrad quietly laughs over his survival, before quickly sobbing over the loss of his fellow soldiers]]. Even when he does find out that the British spy he's looking for is currently hiding in the same place as him, his crying doesn't end, as he confesses a bitter truth]].
--->'''Conrad:''' I thought... I thought I knew what I wanted. My father warned me. My father warned me. I... I didn't listen... and now it all makes sense. [[spoiler:I didn't even get to say goodbye]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** [[spoiler:Conrad's death and the depression that Orlando suffers from after it. Upon hearing the news from Archie, Orlando's reduced to a sobbing mess hugging a photograph of his son, alternating between tearfully apologizing to the portrait of his wife for failing to keep his promise to protect Conrad and crying for Polly to comfort him.]]
*** During this moment, Shola can only watch with teary eyes.

to:

** [[spoiler:Conrad's death and the depression that Orlando suffers from after it. Upon hearing the news from Archie, Orlando's reduced to a sobbing mess hugging a photograph of his son, alternating between tearfully apologizing to the portrait of his wife for failing to keep his promise to protect Conrad and crying for Polly to comfort him.]]
***
]] During this moment, Shola can only watch with teary eyes.eyes.
** The aftermath of the final battle. [[spoiler:Yes, Orlando has finally taken out the mastermind behind World War I, along with all his cronies. But the way Orlando solemnly kisses Conrad's Victoria Cross medal serves to show that no amount of enemies killed will ever bring back his son]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** During this moment, Shola can only watch with teary eyes.

Top