Follow TV Tropes

Following

History YMMV / FireEmblemFates

Go To



* BestKnownForTheFanservice: Though other Fire Emblem games had their share of fanservice ''Fates'' is the entry that became most infamous for it, between the face-touching minigame, the poorly justified return of the children mechanic, the use of the NotBloodSiblings trope, the inclusion of a {{Meido}} class, some of the more {{Stripperiffic}} designs (particularly Camilla's), and certain choices of characterization which fans accuse of being otaku pandering. It's because of this response that the game became known as "[[FanNickname Waifu Emblem]]" in many circles.

to:

* BestKnownForTheFanservice: The primary reason for the game's FanNickname of "Waifu Emblem". Though [[OlderThanTheyThink other Fire Emblem games entries]] have also had their share of fanservice ''Fates'' is the entry one that became most infamous for it, between the face-touching minigame, the poorly justified return of the children mechanic, the prominent use of the NotBloodSiblings trope, the inclusion of a {{Meido}} class, some of the more {{Stripperiffic}} designs (particularly Camilla's), and certain choices of characterization which fans accuse of being otaku pandering. It's because of this response that the game became known as "[[FanNickname Waifu Emblem]]" in many circles.


* BestKnownForTheFanservice: Though other Fire Emblem games had their share of fanservice ''Fates'' is the entry that became most infamous for them, between the face-touching minigame, the poorly justified return of the children mechanic, the use of the NotBloodSiblings trope, the more fanservicey character designs, the inclusion of a {{Meido}} class, some of the more fanservicey designs (particularly Camilla's), and certain choices of characterization which fans accuse of being otaku pandering. It's because of this reaction that the game is known as "[[FanNickname Waifu Emblem]]" in many circles.

to:

* BestKnownForTheFanservice: Though other Fire Emblem games had their share of fanservice ''Fates'' is the entry that became most infamous for them, it, between the face-touching minigame, the poorly justified return of the children mechanic, the use of the NotBloodSiblings trope, the more fanservicey character designs, the inclusion of a {{Meido}} class, some of the more fanservicey {{Stripperiffic}} designs (particularly Camilla's), and certain choices of characterization which fans accuse of being otaku pandering. It's because of this reaction response that the game is became known as "[[FanNickname Waifu Emblem]]" in many circles.

Added DiffLines:

* BestKnownForTheFanservice: Though other Fire Emblem games had their share of fanservice ''Fates'' is the entry that became most infamous for them, between the face-touching minigame, the poorly justified return of the children mechanic, the use of the NotBloodSiblings trope, the more fanservicey character designs, the inclusion of a {{Meido}} class, some of the more fanservicey designs (particularly Camilla's), and certain choices of characterization which fans accuse of being otaku pandering. It's because of this reaction that the game is known as "[[FanNickname Waifu Emblem]]" in many circles.

Added DiffLines:

* SnarkBait: While the game has its strong defenders, it's a popular target of bashing for long-time ''Fire Emblem'' series fans due to the many ways it deviates from series traditions, both gameplaywise and storywise, in ways largely seen as for the worse by them.


** Similarly, Silas and Kaze joining the Avatar regardless of route could have been interesting, especially since they both have one path where this means abandoning their homeland. And yet the Nohrians never seem to care about Silas defecting, and none of the Hoshidans bar Saizo ever say anything to Kaze. Extra egregious in Kaze's case, since he has nothing to say during the invasion of Hoshido in the last few chapters of ''Conquest''.

to:

** Similarly, Silas and Kaze joining the Avatar regardless of route could have been interesting, especially since they both have one path where this means abandoning their homeland. And yet the Nohrians (bar Xander) never seem to care about Silas defecting, and none of the Hoshidans bar Saizo (bar Saizo) ever say anything to Kaze. Extra egregious in Kaze's case, since he has nothing to say during the invasion of Hoshido in the last few chapters of ''Conquest''.


** Averted in regards to [[spoiler:the male Avatar and Azura]]. A few fans jumped ship after [[spoiler:TheReveal in ''Revelation'' that their mothers Mikoto and Arete were sisters -- making them KissingCousins --]] but overall it remains a very popular ship. This may be due to this only being (indirectly) revealed late in the game, and outside the reveal, it's never mentioned and plays no role in the story, making FanonDiscontinuity very easy [[spoiler:and because cousin marriages were very common among royalty, so in-universe there's nothing odd about it]].

to:

** Averted in regards to [[spoiler:the male Avatar and Azura]]. A few fans jumped ship after [[spoiler:TheReveal in ''Revelation'' that their mothers Mikoto and Arete were sisters -- making them KissingCousins --]] ]] but overall it remains a very popular ship. This may be due to this only being (indirectly) revealed late in the game, and outside the reveal, it's never mentioned and plays no role in the story, making FanonDiscontinuity very easy [[spoiler:and because cousin marriages were very common among royalty, so in-universe there's nothing odd about it]].



** As much of a backstabbing jerk as [[spoiler:Anthony]] is, it's hard not to feel sorry for him when [[spoiler:Anankos [[BalefulPolymorph turns him into a Faceless]], especially with his battle dialogue implying he's either completely mentally broken or in a state of AndIMustScream.]] Defeating him feels like a MercyKill.
** Also, [[spoiler:anyone who is being controlled by Anankos.]]

to:

** As much of a backstabbing jerk as [[spoiler:Anthony]] is, it's hard not to feel sorry for him when [[spoiler:Anankos [[BalefulPolymorph turns him into a Faceless]], especially with his battle dialogue implying he's either completely mentally broken or in a state of AndIMustScream.]] AndIMustScream]]. Defeating him feels like a MercyKill.
** Also, [[spoiler:anyone who is being controlled by Anankos.]]Anankos]].



** Silas [[SatelliteCharacter having little character other than his devotion to the Avatar]] and seemingly being the only one to remember his past with them led a lot of people to theorize he is TheMole, possibly one of Iago's spies. [[spoiler:He isn't, though those suspicious traits of his along with the fact that he lacks any ''actual'' HiddenDepths is the reason he is disliked by some.]] Other people interpret his supports with Camilla and Elise as him being only in it for Corrin's adoptive sisters. This is sent up in his supports with Sakura on the Hoshido path-- because Corrin initially didn't remember him, Sakura becomes convinced that Silas is under some sort of curse or spell making him believe he's Corrin's friend, though she doesn't go so far as to accuse him of being a mole.

to:

** Silas [[SatelliteCharacter having little character other than his devotion to the Avatar]] and seemingly being the only one to remember his past with them led a lot of people to theorize he is TheMole, possibly one of Iago's spies. [[spoiler:He isn't, though those suspicious traits of his along with the fact that he lacks any ''actual'' HiddenDepths is the reason he is disliked by some.]] Other people interpret his supports with Camilla and Elise as him being only in it for Corrin's adoptive sisters. This is sent up in his supports with Sakura on the Hoshido path-- path because Corrin initially didn't remember him, Sakura becomes convinced that Silas is under some sort of curse or spell making him believe he's Corrin's friend, though she doesn't go so far as to accuse him of being a mole.



** After a while, people noticed that many of [[MysteriousWaif Azura's]] actions [[note]] Conquest: Sidestepping a proper explanation of Valla and giving Corrin the push into conquering Hoshido; Revelation: Convincing Corrin to fight both the Hoshidan and Nohrian advance forces - making them an enemy of both countries - and then talking them into jumping off a cliff[[/note]] would make more sense if she was a sociopathic villain manipulating Corrin. There is also the less extreme view that she's very apathetic, and doesn't try very hard to thwart the villian [[note]]she's actually not trying hard because [[HarmfulToMinors she's seen]] [[CruelAndUnusualDeath the consequences]] if she says too much. On the other hand, she suffers that same death anyway in Birthright and Conquest because she wasted her energy helping Corrin fight a symptom instead of the root cause[[/note]].

to:

** After a while, people noticed that many of [[MysteriousWaif Azura's]] actions [[note]] Conquest: [[note]]''Conquest'': Sidestepping a proper explanation of Valla and giving Corrin the push into conquering Hoshido; Revelation: ''Revelation'': Convincing Corrin to fight both the Hoshidan and Nohrian advance forces - making them an enemy of both countries - and then talking them into jumping off a cliff[[/note]] would make more sense if she was a sociopathic villain manipulating Corrin. There is also the less extreme view that she's very apathetic, and doesn't try very hard to thwart the villian [[note]]she's actually not trying hard because [[HarmfulToMinors she's seen]] [[CruelAndUnusualDeath the consequences]] if she says too much. On the other hand, she suffers that same death anyway in Birthright ''Birthright'' and Conquest ''Conquest'' because she wasted her energy helping Corrin fight a symptom instead of the root cause[[/note]].



** Leo in ''Birthright'' Chapter 18 is built up as a powerful opponent and the confrontation with the Avatar -- who he considered his brother/sister -- is an emotional one, but he's a joke of a boss. He has very low stats for a Level 12 promoted unit (he has better stats bar HP when he joins as a playable unit in ''Conquest'' Chapter 14, and at Level 2), so he poses little threat to the player, and he's fought in a very small map that makes it easy to just run up to him and beat him in one or two turns. [[spoiler:There is a good in-story reason for this, though.]]
** Garon is the second-to-last boss of both ''Birthright'' and ''Conquest'', but he's not very threatening. His main weapon is an axe, which naturally has low accuracy (especially if against an opponent with Weapon Triangle advantage). As long as the Avatar hasn't been reclassed to something that can't use a sword, they can just walk right up to Garon and use the upgraded Yato to easily take him out in a round or two. This is more obvious in ''Conquest'' as his map there is more open and straightforward with less units blocking your way.
** Garon's OneWingedAngel form of Birthright is arguably even easier than the previous fight. With good planning, strong units and some luck, it's possible to kill him ''in a single turn''.
** If you trained the Avatar well, Xander can become this in ''Birthright'' Chapter 26, as it will only take one or two hits from the Noble Yato to down him, on top of this being possible to do in one turn. It doesn't help that this comes after [[spoiler:Elise's death,]] and it's especially jarring given that Xander was a walking HopelessBossFight in ''Birthright'' Chapter 12. [[spoiler:Again, his sudden weakness has an in-story reason though]].

to:

** Leo in ''Birthright'' Chapter 18 is built up as a powerful opponent and the confrontation with the Avatar -- who he considered his brother/sister -- is an emotional one, but he's a joke of a boss. He has very low stats for a Level 12 promoted unit (he has better stats bar HP when he joins as a playable unit in ''Conquest'' Chapter 14, and at Level 2), so he poses little threat to the player, and he's fought in a very small map that makes it easy to just run up to him and beat him in one or two turns. [[spoiler:There is a good in-story reason for this, though.]]
** Garon is the second-to-last boss of both ''Birthright'' and ''Conquest'', but he's not very threatening. His main weapon is an axe, which naturally has low accuracy (especially if against an opponent with Weapon Triangle advantage). As long as the Avatar hasn't been reclassed to something that can't use a sword, they can just walk right up to Garon and use the upgraded Yato to easily take him out in a round or two. This is more obvious in ''Conquest'' ''Conquest'', as his map there is more open and straightforward with less units blocking your way.
** Garon's OneWingedAngel form of Birthright in ''Birthright'' is arguably even easier than the previous fight. With good planning, strong units and some luck, it's possible to kill him ''in a single turn''.
** If you trained the Avatar well, Xander can become this in ''Birthright'' Chapter 26, as it will only take one or two hits from the Noble Yato to down him, on top of this being possible to do in one turn. It doesn't help that this comes after [[spoiler:Elise's death,]] and it's especially jarring given that Xander was a walking HopelessBossFight in ''Birthright'' Chapter 12. [[spoiler:Again, his sudden weakness has an in-story reason though]].reason, though.]]



** In ''Birthright'', when arriving at Fort Dragonfall in Chapter 20, Iago traps the heroes in the fort and reveals the Dragon that died many years ago is now alive and the heroes have to have Azura use her song to stop it and escape. The problem is that it's never explained how such a thing is possible, with Iago {{handwaving}} it by saying Garon gave him power to do it. It's never explained how that's possible, and after you escape, it never gets discussed at all, making the entire segment seem like padding to ensure both stories have the same number of levels. Similarly, it's never explained how Iago has the power to [[spoiler:mind-control Takumi]] in Chapter 25 of ''Birthright'', especially seeing as he has no stated connection to [[spoiler:Anankos]], the one behind [[spoiler:Takumi's brainwashing.]][[note]]Spying through Takumi ''could'' be justified since Iago stated that he got his powers from Garon, who is being controlled by Anankos, the one who possessed Takumi. However, since this is only given a quick mention, it's easy to miss.[[/note]]

to:

** In ''Birthright'', when arriving at Fort Dragonfall in Chapter 20, Iago traps the heroes in the fort and reveals the Dragon that died many years ago is now alive and the heroes have to have Azura use her song to stop it and escape. The problem is that it's never explained how such a thing is possible, with Iago {{handwaving}} it by saying Garon gave him power to do it. It's never explained how that's possible, and after you escape, it never gets discussed at all, making the entire segment seem like padding to ensure both stories have the same number of levels. Similarly, it's never explained how Iago has the power to [[spoiler:mind-control Takumi]] in Chapter 25 of ''Birthright'', especially seeing as he has no stated connection to [[spoiler:Anankos]], the one behind [[spoiler:Takumi's brainwashing.]][[note]]Spying brainwashing]].[[note]]Spying through Takumi ''could'' be justified since Iago stated that he got his powers from Garon, who is being controlled by Anankos, the one who possessed Takumi. However, since this is only given a quick mention, it's easy to miss.[[/note]]



** The magic throne in Hoshido's palace is enchanted to reveal its occupant's "true self", whatever that may be. In Birthright and Revelation this never gets mentioned again, but in Conquest [[spoiler:it seems to exist solely to facilitate the insane plot of "help Garon mercilessly conquer Hoshido ''just'' so he can be tricked into sitting on the throne and exposed as a slime monster, because there's no other way to get your siblings to believe you".]]

to:

** The magic throne in Hoshido's palace is enchanted to reveal its occupant's "true self", whatever that may be. In Birthright ''Birthright'' and Revelation ''Revelation'', this never gets mentioned again, but in Conquest ''Conquest'', [[spoiler:it seems to exist solely to facilitate the insane plot of "help Garon mercilessly conquer Hoshido ''just'' so he can be tricked into sitting on the throne and exposed as a slime monster, because there's no other way to get your siblings to believe you".]]



** Attempted with the English dub giving the younger-looking characters older-sounding voices as well as a few lines of dialogue indicating they are TotallyEighteen in order to alleviate some of the {{squick}} involving the possibility of marrying and having children with underage characters. However it created more problem for the most part by claiming that a bunch of characters who looked and acted like children were "technically" adults, raises lots of questions about the characters' ages (especially Elise) and in general did little to elevate the problem since the dialogue in question consists of a single line from Leo about Elise, a line in Midori's B Support with her mother, and nowhere else.
* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: The ''one'' thing the game's BrokenBase can unanimously agree on is that the soundtrack is ''amazing'', [[AwesomeMusic/FireEmblem even for a]] ''[[AwesomeMusic/FireEmblem Fire Emblem]]'' [[AwesomeMusic/FireEmblem game.]] Take a seat -- we're gonna be here for a while:

to:

** Attempted with the English dub giving the younger-looking characters older-sounding voices as well as a few lines of dialogue indicating they are TotallyEighteen in order to alleviate some of the {{squick}} involving the possibility of marrying and having children with underage characters. However However, it created more problem problems for the most part by claiming that a bunch of characters who looked and acted like children were "technically" adults, raises lots of questions about the characters' ages (especially Elise) Elise), and in general did little to elevate alleviate the problem problem, since the dialogue in question consists of a single line from Leo about Elise, a line in Midori's B Support with her mother, and nowhere else.
* SugarWiki/AwesomeMusic: The ''one'' thing the game's BrokenBase can unanimously agree on is that the soundtrack is ''amazing'', [[AwesomeMusic/FireEmblem even for a]] ''[[AwesomeMusic/FireEmblem Fire Emblem]]'' [[AwesomeMusic/FireEmblem game.]] Take a seat -- we're gonna be here for a while:



** "[[https://youtu.be/_y5sgPYeQAA Thorn in You]]" and its [[https://youtu.be/zah9mtd24nQ battle version]] play during Chapter 6 and the battles against [[spoiler:Xander or Ryoma near the end of ''Birthright'' and ''Conquest'' respectively]], and ''boy'' does it help set the mood. The normal version is fittingly depressing, with a soft piano and violins playing throughout. The battle version manages to keep the tragic aspect and ramp up the drama with a bombastic orchestra, which helps make the battles against your beloved siblings all the more [[TearJerker tear-jerking]] and climactic.

to:

** "[[https://youtu.be/_y5sgPYeQAA Thorn in You]]" and its [[https://youtu.be/zah9mtd24nQ battle version]] play during Chapter 6 and the battles against [[spoiler:Xander or Ryoma near the end of ''Birthright'' and ''Conquest'' ''Conquest'', respectively]], and ''boy'' does it help set the mood. The normal version is fittingly depressing, with a soft piano and violins playing throughout. The battle version manages to keep the tragic aspect and ramp up the drama with a bombastic orchestra, which helps make the battles against your beloved siblings all the more [[TearJerker tear-jerking]] and climactic.



** Many of Conquest's maps are well received for giving much more diverse objectives to just "Rout the enemies" or ''Defeat the Boss''. It's generally accepted that Nohr may have been given the short end of the stick storywise, but it has ''much'' more interesting maps.

to:

** Many of Conquest's ''Conquest''[='=]s maps are well received for giving much more diverse objectives to than just "Rout the enemies" or ''Defeat "Defeat the Boss''.Boss". It's generally accepted that Nohr may have been given the short end of the stick storywise, but it has ''much'' more interesting maps.



*** Chapter 24 of ''Conquest'', the cherry blossom forest, has Dragon Veins that affect the movement of all your units. Whenever you use the Dragon Veins, the movement of the land units increase while the fliers' movement decreases. When the boss uses her Dragon Vein, however, the movement of every flier increase and the movement of every other unit decreases, and unlike all the other Dragon Veins, hers respawns after a few turns or so, so she can keep reusing it. It is a very fun map, and you have different ways of approaching it. You could hit the Dragon Veins yourself and go on the offensive, rushing your land units closer to the boss, or wait for the boss to hit them and go on the defensive and protect yourself against the oncoming enemy fliers. Your own flying units are also affected by the Dragon Vein, so you could even have them [[HoistByHerOwnPetard take advantage of the extra movement when the boss uses it]]. The map is fun, offers a lot of strategies on how to approach it, and also has great music and aesthetics.

to:

*** Chapter 24 of ''Conquest'', the cherry blossom forest, has Dragon Veins that affect the movement of all your units. Whenever you use the Dragon Veins, the movement of the land units increase while the fliers' movement decreases. When the boss uses her Dragon Vein, however, the movement of every flier increase increases and the movement of every other unit decreases, and unlike all the other Dragon Veins, hers respawns after a few turns or so, so she can keep reusing it. It is a very fun map, and you have different ways of approaching it. You could hit the Dragon Veins yourself and go on the offensive, rushing your land units closer to the boss, or wait for the boss to hit them and go on the defensive and protect yourself against the oncoming enemy fliers. Your own flying units are also affected by the Dragon Vein, so you could even have them [[HoistByHerOwnPetard take advantage of the extra movement when the boss uses it]]. The map is fun, offers a lot of strategies on how to approach it, and also has great music and aesthetics.



** Percy's paralogue has an interesting twist on the traditional Rout objective. All of the enemies of the map, not including the boss, are mercenaries who have been tricked into thinking that the player's army are wanted bandits. Using the Dragon Veins that are scattered throughout the map makes all of the units within a certain range realize that the user [[MassOhCrap is not an outlaw, but rather royalty, which means that they're attacking the army of a noble]], flee the map, and bribe the player to forget that this ever happened to the tune of 500G per unit that flees. While there's no direct penalty for killing the mercenaries, thus allowing players to take the straightforward approach if they so choose (and be rewarded in EXP), it's also possible to instead play the map as a risk-reward system, luring as many units as possible into the Veins, trying to figure out the best opportunity to use them without the unit acting as bait getting overrun while being equipped with weak weapons in order to not kill the mercenaries when they're attacked, and potentially making well over 10000G for their trouble when all's said and done-- which, while a nice bonus in ''Revelation'', is particularly helpful when playing ''Conquest'', a game where opportunities to drum up extra cash are limited without DLC.

to:

** Percy's paralogue has an interesting twist on the traditional Rout objective. All of the enemies of the map, not including the boss, are mercenaries who have been tricked into thinking that the player's army are wanted bandits. Using the Dragon Veins that are scattered throughout the map makes all of the units within a certain range realize that the user [[MassOhCrap is not an outlaw, but rather royalty, which means that they're attacking the army of a noble]], flee the map, and bribe the player to forget that this ever happened to the tune of 500G per unit that flees. While there's no direct penalty for killing the mercenaries, thus allowing players to take the straightforward approach if they so choose (and be rewarded in EXP), it's also possible to instead play the map as a risk-reward system, luring as many units as possible into the Veins, trying to figure out the best opportunity to use them without the unit acting as bait getting overrun while being equipped with weak weapons in order to not kill the mercenaries when they're attacked, and potentially making well over 10000G for their trouble when all's said and done-- done which, while a nice bonus in ''Revelation'', is particularly helpful when playing ''Conquest'', a game where opportunities to drum up extra cash are limited without DLC.



** Chapter 15 of ''Conquest'' has [[spoiler:the Avatar stumbling through a random portal to Valla with Azura. They find Gunter, clear out the enemies, leave, and never speak of Valla again. They try to justify the "never talking about it again" bit with the Valla curse, but fans still aren't pleased.]] The whole thing is very bizarre and one of the most criticized parts of ''Conquest's'' story.

to:

** Chapter 15 of ''Conquest'' has [[spoiler:the Avatar stumbling through a random portal to Valla with Azura. They find Gunter, clear out the enemies, leave, and never speak of Valla again. They try to justify the "never talking about it again" bit with the Valla curse, but fans still aren't pleased.]] pleased]]. The whole thing is very bizarre and one of the most criticized parts of ''Conquest's'' story.



** Gunter [[spoiler:is TheMole in the ''Revelation'' route. He gets an unusually high number of appearances in that route, he suspiciously can't support ''at all'' (a trait usually reserved for captured units and Einherjar), and, in the English dub at least, the voice Corrin hears right before Scarlet dies is clearly that of Gunter's.]]
* CasualCompetitiveConflict: Wondering who to marry? Ask the competitive side and they'll tell you to marry a second gen unit, not even batting an eye at the {{squick}}tastic implications since it provides a stronger Kana in addition to being able to get every child unit in the game while not having to marry an Avatarsexual if playing as a male. Other players choose not to do this due to said implications, and are perfectly fine missing out on a child, usually Dwyer, Hisame or Rhajat being common children that are never recruited.
* CatharsisFactor: Fighting Iago and Hans is ''very'' satisfying after what they put you through in the game. In ''Birthright'', [[spoiler:having Takumi land the killing blow on Iago is well deserved karma]], while ''Conquest'' has the player being forced to put up with them for essentially ''the entire game''.

to:

** Gunter [[spoiler:is TheMole in the ''Revelation'' route. He gets an unusually high number of appearances in that route, he suspiciously can't support ''at all'' (a trait usually reserved for captured units and Einherjar), and, in the English dub at least, the voice Corrin hears right before Scarlet dies is clearly that of Gunter's.]]
Gunter's]].
* CasualCompetitiveConflict: Wondering who to marry? Ask the competitive side and they'll tell you to marry a second gen unit, not even batting an eye at the {{squick}}tastic implications since it provides a stronger Kana in addition to being able to get every child unit in the game while not having to marry an Avatarsexual if playing as a male. Other players choose not to do this due to said implications, and are perfectly fine missing out on a child, usually with Dwyer, Hisame Hisame, or Rhajat being common children that are never recruited.
* CatharsisFactor: Fighting Iago and Hans is ''very'' satisfying after what they put you through in the game. In ''Birthright'', [[spoiler:having Takumi land the killing blow on Iago is well deserved well-deserved karma]], while ''Conquest'' has the player being forced to put up with them for essentially ''the entire game''.






* CryForTheDevil: The TrueFinalBoss has a tragic backstory you only learn of through DLC, but man is it painful. [[spoiler:Anankos foresaw his own descent into madness and tried desperately to stop it, but everything he tried either didn't work or made things worse. Humans grew scared of him and shunned him during this time, [[GoMadFromTheIsolation making his insanity worse]]. Everything finally culminated in an AccidentalMurder of his best friend and the only person left who still believed in him, which broke his mind completely.]] When you learn this, and especially how he used to be a genuinely kind man, it's hard not to feel sad when fighting the twisted beast he's become.

to:

* CryForTheDevil: The TrueFinalBoss has a tragic backstory you only learn of through DLC, but man ''man'', is it painful. [[spoiler:Anankos foresaw his own descent into madness and tried desperately to stop it, but everything he tried either didn't work or made things worse. Humans grew scared of him and shunned him during this time, [[GoMadFromTheIsolation making his insanity worse]]. Everything finally culminated in an AccidentalMurder of his best friend and the only person left who still believed in him, which broke his mind completely.]] When you learn this, and especially how he used to be a genuinely kind man, it's hard not to feel sad when fighting the twisted beast he's become.



** [[{{Kitsune}} Selkie]] is very popular among the child characters, being high up in the Heroes poll among Fates characters.

to:

** [[{{Kitsune}} Selkie]] is very popular among the child characters, being high up in the Heroes ''Heroes'' poll among Fates ''Fates'' characters.



* FanDislikedExplanation: The second generation was received ''much'' less warmly, both in the West ''and'' in Japan, this time 'round. While there isn't anything wrong with it as a game mechanic, many fans feel that the explanation for the kids was dumb[[note]]they were born ''during the game'' and left in an alternate dimension to be raised by other people[[/note]], the implementation was clumsy[[note]]they can be cut out entirely from the plot and not make a difference[[/note]], that the entire thing has [[{{Squick}} unnerving]] undertones[[note]]two of the potential mothers (Sakura and Elise) and one of the fathers (Hayato) are ''younger than the kids'', and it's possible for the Avatar to marry and produce a child with Percy or Midori, who are still children themselves[[/note]], and is rife with FridgeHorror[[note]]namely about the parents [[ParentalNeglect ditching their kids in an alternate dimension]] and only letting them out [[ChildSoldier when they're of an age to fight]], ''especially'' in the case of Selena, Odin, and Laslow, as you'd think considering what happened to them they would never even ''think'' of letting their own children grow up without parents[[/note]].

to:

* FanDislikedExplanation: The second generation was received ''much'' less warmly, both in the West ''and'' in Japan, this time 'round. While there isn't anything wrong with it as a game mechanic, many fans feel that the explanation for the kids was dumb[[note]]they were born ''during the game'' and left in an alternate dimension to be raised by other people[[/note]], the implementation was clumsy[[note]]they can be cut out entirely from the plot and not make a difference[[/note]], that the entire thing has [[{{Squick}} unnerving]] undertones[[note]]two of the potential mothers (Sakura and Elise) and one of the fathers (Hayato) are ''younger than the kids'', and it's possible for the Avatar to marry and produce a child with Percy or Midori, who are still children themselves[[/note]], and is rife with FridgeHorror[[note]]namely about the parents [[ParentalNeglect ditching their kids in an alternate dimension]] and only letting them out [[ChildSoldier when they're of an age to fight]], ''especially'' in the case of Selena, Odin, and Laslow, as you'd think considering what happened to them them, they would never even ''think'' of letting their own children grow up without parents[[/note]].



* FunnyAneurysmMoment: The ''Heir of Fate'' DLC is full of it in regards to some the children:

to:

* FunnyAneurysmMoment: The ''Heir of Fate'' DLC is full of it in regards to some of the children:



** Percy's good luck vs Arthur's bad one feels a lot like this [[spoiler:since all the fathers died saving their children. Suddenly, Arthur's bad luck was finally played for drama.]]
** In a non Heirs of Fate Example, the Witch's Mark, a DLC Item that allows the player to turn any female unit into a previously enemy only class, becomes this due to a combination of CerebusRetcon and FridgeHorror as revealed in the [[VideoGameRemake remake]] of ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemGaiden Gaiden]]''. As it turns out, witches are women who have essentially had their souls offered up to [[GodOfEvil Duma]] in exchange for power. In essence, if the two classes are one and the same, [[DealWithTheDevil you are essentially trading that character's soul for a more powerful unit]]. (Granted, as ''Fates'' likely takes place well after Duma's defeat, [[NightmareRetardant this probably does not apply]]; however, the comparison is still there, making the player feel lucky that this is not the case in ''Fates''.)

to:

** Percy's good luck vs Arthur's bad one feels a lot like this [[spoiler:since all the fathers died saving their children. Suddenly, Arthur's bad luck was finally played for drama.]]
drama]].
** In a non Heirs non-''Heirs of Fate Example, Fate'' example, the Witch's Mark, a DLC Item item that allows the player to turn any female unit into a previously enemy only enemy-only class, becomes this due to a combination of CerebusRetcon and FridgeHorror as revealed in the [[VideoGameRemake remake]] of ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemGaiden Gaiden]]''. As it turns out, witches are women who have essentially had their souls offered up to [[GodOfEvil Duma]] in exchange for power. In essence, if the two classes are one and the same, [[DealWithTheDevil you are essentially trading that character's soul for a more powerful unit]]. (Granted, as ''Fates'' likely takes place well after Duma's defeat, [[NightmareRetardant this probably does not apply]]; however, the comparison is still there, making the player feel lucky that this is not the case in ''Fates''.)



* GeniusBonus: If one catches the connection to the First Dragons' power in the Dragon Veins and their relation to the practice of Feng Shui, it becomes readily apparent why Azura, the Avatar, [[spoiler:Anankos, and other associates of Valla]] have such a strong water motif. One of the central ideas behind Feng Shui is that among the parts of nature making up the world, {{Chi}} (analogous to Dragon Vein power) flows best in water (shui). It also ties in with why [[spoiler:Takumi is so powerful when possessed by Anankos that he becomes a FinalBoss: second to water, the next best part of nature to gather and read the flow of chi is the Fujin Yumi's element, wind (feng).]]

to:

* GeniusBonus: If one catches the connection to the First Dragons' power in the Dragon Veins and their relation to the practice of Feng Shui, it becomes readily apparent why Azura, the Avatar, [[spoiler:Anankos, and other associates of Valla]] have such a strong water motif. One of the central ideas behind Feng Shui is that among the parts of nature making up the world, {{Chi}} (analogous to Dragon Vein power) flows best in water (shui). It also ties in with why [[spoiler:Takumi is so powerful when possessed by Anankos that he becomes a FinalBoss: second to water, the next best part of nature to gather and read the flow of chi is the Fujin Yumi's element, wind (feng).]] (feng)]].



** [[FanNickname Asshole Reinforcements]] easily turn into this -- since ''some'' of them literally ''do not even give you experience'' when you kill them. There is essentially no way to tell whether or not a unit is an Asshole Reinforcement short of spotting whether or not they spawn in your way. Yet these asshole reinforcements are just as powerful as any other unit on the map, meaning you have to waste turns fighting them when they inevitably get in your way.

to:

** [[FanNickname Asshole Reinforcements]] easily turn into this -- since ''some'' of them literally ''do not even give you experience'' when you kill them. There is essentially no way to tell whether or not a unit is an Asshole Reinforcement short of spotting whether or not they spawn in your way. Yet these asshole reinforcements are just as powerful as any other unit on the map, meaning you have to waste turns fighting them when they inevitably get in your way.



* HarsherInHindsight: In their A support, Effie tells Xander she can't properly train with him because she's focused on protecting Elise, [[spoiler:and she can't imagine him hurting Elise. On the ''Birthright'' route, he ends up accidentally ''killing'' Elise.]] And that's the ''Japanese'' version -- the ''English'' one is far, far worse, specifically because of this one line.

to:

* HarsherInHindsight: In their A support, Effie tells Xander she can't properly train with him because she's focused on protecting Elise, [[spoiler:and she can't imagine him hurting Elise. On the ''Birthright'' route, he ends up accidentally ''killing'' Elise.]] Elise]]. And that's the ''Japanese'' version -- the ''English'' one is far, far worse, specifically because of this one line.



** Some of the skinship quotes for certain characters -- [[spoiler:Xander, Takumi, Flora, Elise, and Azura]] -- should the Avatar be married to the person in question, become a lot sadder and harsher if one knows the fates of those characters. [[spoiler:They all talk about dying for the Avatar's sake, and on some routes, they do.]]

to:

** Some of the skinship quotes for certain characters -- [[spoiler:Xander, Takumi, Flora, Elise, and Azura]] -- should the Avatar be married to the person in question, become a lot sadder and harsher if one knows the fates of those characters. [[spoiler:They all talk about dying for the Avatar's sake, and on some routes, they do.]]


* CasualCompetitiveConflict: Wondering who to marry? Ask the competitive side and they'll tell you to marry a second gen unit, not even batting an eye at the {{squick}}tastic implications since it provides a stronger Kana in addition to being able to get every child unit in the game while not having to marry an Avatarsexual if playing as a male. Normal players will '''never''' do this on principle due to said implications, and are perfectly fine missing out on a child, usually Dwyer, Hisame or Rhajat being common children that are never recruited.

to:

* CasualCompetitiveConflict: Wondering who to marry? Ask the competitive side and they'll tell you to marry a second gen unit, not even batting an eye at the {{squick}}tastic implications since it provides a stronger Kana in addition to being able to get every child unit in the game while not having to marry an Avatarsexual if playing as a male. Normal Other players will '''never''' choose not to do this on principle due to said implications, and are perfectly fine missing out on a child, usually Dwyer, Hisame or Rhajat being common children that are never recruited.


*** Orochi is a case of OvershadowedByAwesome in ''Revelation''. In ''Birthright'', she's one of your only mages, and being a female, can make good use of the witch class, as Rhajat, the other female mage, has her own problems. She faces stiff competition in the form of Hayato, Ophelia, and Elise in ''Revelation'', however.

to:

*** Orochi is a case of OvershadowedByAwesome in ''Revelation''. In ''Birthright'', she's one of your only mages, and being a female, can make good use of the witch class, as Rhajat, the other female mage, has her own problems. She faces stiff competition in the form of Hayato, Ophelia, and Elise in ''Revelation'', however.


** For players who want to get all the units, which is necessary to complete the Support Log, there is the situation with a male Avatar and his potential wives. In both ''Birthright'' and ''Conquest'', [[http://i.imgur.com/gD1cGcS.png there are only 19 husbands and 19 wives]]. The Male Avatar adds an extra husband with a child and, if he marries one of the wives, a child unit will be {{Permanently Missable|Content}}. The only way to avoid this is to marry either Reina, Scarlet, Flora, or Anna. (Or marry a female Second Generation unit, but many fans don't like doing that since the idea is {{squick}}y.) The problem is their availability: Scarlet is exclusive to ''Birthright'', Reina is in both ''Birthright'' and ''Revelation'', Flora in ''Conquest'' and ''Revelation'' if a condition is satisfied, and Anna is DLC for all paths. Unless one chooses to ignore certain things, this leaves the male Avatar with a ''very'' limited spouse pool. Contrast the female, who can marry any man she pleases with no losses, and especially contrast the ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Awakening]]'' Avatars who had no such issue.

to:

** For players who want to get all the units, which is necessary to complete the Support Log, there is the situation with a male Avatar and his potential wives. In both ''Birthright'' and ''Conquest'', [[http://i.imgur.com/gD1cGcS.png there are only 19 husbands and 19 wives]]. The Male Avatar adds an extra husband with a child and, if he marries one of the wives, a child unit will be {{Permanently Missable|Content}}. The only way to avoid this is to marry either Reina, Scarlet, Flora, or Anna. (Or marry a female Second Generation unit, but many fans don't like doing that since the idea is {{squick}}y.) The problem is their availability: Scarlet is exclusive to ''Birthright'', avalaible in ''Birthright'' and ''Revelations'' but in ''Revelations'', permanently leaves the party only a single story battle after joining. Reina is in both ''Birthright'' and ''Revelation'', Flora in ''Conquest'' and ''Revelation'' if a condition is satisfied, and Anna is DLC for all paths. Unless one chooses to ignore certain things, this leaves the male Avatar with a ''very'' limited spouse pool. Contrast the female, who can marry any man she pleases with no losses, and especially contrast the ''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Awakening]]'' Avatars who had no such issue.


** [[CuteClumsyGirl Clumsy]] archer Setsuna, CountryMouse Mozu, GenkiGirl Hana, [[PettingZooPeople foxboy]] Kaden, and {{Yandere}} Peri also qualify.

to:

** [[CuteClumsyGirl Clumsy]] archer Setsuna, CountryMouse Mozu, GenkiGirl Hana, [[PettingZooPeople [[LittleBitBeastly foxboy]] Kaden, and {{Yandere}} Peri also qualify.


* InternetBackdraft: Mentioning the censorship applied to the international release or general changes made in the localization will likely result in a FlameWar, as both are controversial.

Added DiffLines:

** The aforementioned [[spoiler:Vallite crystal ball]] is also implied to be used in ''Birthright.'' In ''Conquest,'' Azura says offhandedly that only a skilled mage like Leo could use the item outside of Valla. In ''Birthright'', after defeating Leo, she surreptitiously gives him something to convince him to let them fight Garon. It's implied that he was able to discern that [[spoiler:his father was no longer his father, and thus the party is justified in killing him]] and is a big ol' handwave for why he's not still harassing you or backing up Xander and Camilla.


** The events of Chapter 5, to English-speakers. The FirstEpisodeSpoiler was fairly well-hidden in Japanese marketing, [[TrailersAlwaysSpoil but the first official English dubbed trailer]] ''[[TrailersAlwaysSpoil heavily]] ''[[TrailersAlwaysSpoil hinted at it]], Nintendo Treehouse showcased story scenes from it immediately afterwards that mention it frequently, and later promotional videos showed Chapter 5 in its entirety, meaning most English-speakers were made aware of the twist before the release of the games.

to:

** The events of Chapter 5, to English-speakers. The FirstEpisodeSpoiler FirstEpisodeTwist was fairly well-hidden in Japanese marketing, [[TrailersAlwaysSpoil but the first official English dubbed trailer]] ''[[TrailersAlwaysSpoil heavily]] ''[[TrailersAlwaysSpoil hinted at it]], Nintendo Treehouse showcased story scenes from it immediately afterwards that mention it frequently, and later promotional videos showed Chapter 5 in its entirety, meaning most English-speakers were made aware of the twist before the release of the games.


*** Related, some fics incorporate both names for the Avatar by having their name changed from "Kamui" to "Corrin" by Garon when he kidnaps them.

to:

*** Related, Relatedly, some fics incorporate both names for the Avatar by having their name changed from "Kamui" to "Corrin" by Garon when he kidnaps them.


** Takumi is infamous among some fans for repeatedly calling the Avatar a traitor for pretty much all of ''Conquest'' and about half of ''Revelation''. Putting aside the fact that [[spoiler:Takumi spends much of the game under TheCorruption]], he's ''far'' from the only Hoshido character to have a venomous hatred of Nohrians (case in point being Oboro, his own retainer, who is [[FanPreferredCouple more often than not paired with him]]) and that many of his supports show he's actually a pretty good guy, many fans will never forgive his behavior.

to:

** Takumi is infamous among some fans for repeatedly calling the Avatar a traitor for pretty much all of ''Conquest'' and about half of ''Revelation''. Putting aside the fact that [[spoiler:Takumi spends much of the game under TheCorruption]], he's ''far'' from the only Hoshido character to have a venomous hatred of Nohrians (case in point being Oboro, his own retainer, who is [[FanPreferredCouple [[PairTheSpares more often than not paired with him]]) and that many of his supports show he's actually a pretty good guy, many fans will never forgive his behavior.

Showing 15 edit(s) of 1756

Top

Example of:

/
/

Feedback