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Crosswicking


** It's common habit to discuss the series mentioned in ''Bakuman'' as if they are actual series.

to:

** It's common habit to discuss the series mentioned in ''Bakuman'' [[PlayAlongMeme as if they are actual series.series]].
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* {{Anvilicious}}: When Mashiro and Takagi end up [[PanderingToTheBase writing their story according to reader suggestions]] due to understandably being desperate to keep ''Detective Trap'' going, [[DumbassHasAPoint Miura, of all people, notices something's off and calls them out on it]]. He then points out that the fan mail doesn't represent the majority of the readers, and the readers are there for Mashiro and Takagi's story. It's not exactly subtle in how it criticizes merely pandering in an attempt to gain popularity. The arc with [[spoiler:Toru Nanamine]] also has Mashiro and Takagi being challenged by a manga that is entirely written by multiple fans, with the man who publishes it being extremely arrogant despite being unable to stop inconsistencies in "his" writing.

to:

* {{Anvilicious}}: When Mashiro and Takagi end up [[PanderingToTheBase writing their story according to reader suggestions]] due to understandably being desperate to keep ''Detective Trap'' going, [[DumbassHasAPoint Miura, of all people, notices something's off and calls them out on it]]. He then points out that the fan mail doesn't represent the majority of the readers, and the readers are there for Mashiro and Takagi's story. It's not exactly subtle in how it criticizes merely pandering in an attempt to gain popularity. The arc with [[spoiler:Toru Nanamine]] also has Mashiro and Takagi being challenged by a manga that is entirely written by multiple fans, with the man who publishes it being extremely arrogant despite being unable to stop spot inconsistencies in "his" writing.

Added: 225

Changed: 4

Removed: 4

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----



** The Editor-In-Chief is portrayed as unfair for putting ''Detective Trap'' on hiatus while Mashiro is hospitalized, then extending it until he graduates from school. All of Mashiro's rivals go together on a strike in protest and their editors start agreeing with them, and eventually the Editor has to compromise. A few reviewers instead expressed that while Mashiro's passion is admirable, and he managed to draw in these conditions, he really shouldn't be working while in a hospital, especially when his uncle's death from overworking was brought up in the same arc. His stubbornness [[spoiler:[[AllForNothing didn't save Detective Trap from cancellation due to low ratings anyway]]]].

to:

** The Editor-In-Chief is portrayed as unfair for putting ''Detective Trap'' on hiatus while Mashiro is hospitalized, then extending it until he graduates from school. All of Mashiro's rivals go together on a strike in protest and their editors start agreeing with them, and eventually the Editor has to compromise. A few reviewers instead expressed that while Mashiro's passion is admirable, and he managed to draw in these conditions, he really shouldn't ''shouldn't'' be working while in a hospital, especially when his uncle's death from overworking was brought up in the same arc. His stubbornness [[spoiler:[[AllForNothing didn't save Detective Trap from cancellation due to low ratings anyway]]]].anyway]]]].
* DiagnosedByTheAudience: Eiji Niizuma's odd mannerisms, difficulty of understanding social norms despite himself being sociable, atypical LimitedWardrobe, and unparalleled genius, are believed to be indicators of Asperger's.
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* {{Anvilicious}}: When Mashiro and Takagi end up [[PanderingToTheBase writing their story according to reader suggestions]] due to understandably being desperate to keep ''Detective Trap'' going, [[DumbassHasAPoint Miura, of all people, notices something's off and calls them out on it]]. He then points out that the fan mail doesn't represent the majority of the readers, and the readers are there for Mashiro and Takagi's story. It's not exactly subtle in how it criticizes merely pandering in an attempt to gain popularity.

to:

* {{Anvilicious}}: When Mashiro and Takagi end up [[PanderingToTheBase writing their story according to reader suggestions]] due to understandably being desperate to keep ''Detective Trap'' going, [[DumbassHasAPoint Miura, of all people, notices something's off and calls them out on it]]. He then points out that the fan mail doesn't represent the majority of the readers, and the readers are there for Mashiro and Takagi's story. It's not exactly subtle in how it criticizes merely pandering in an attempt to gain popularity. The arc with [[spoiler:Toru Nanamine]] also has Mashiro and Takagi being challenged by a manga that is entirely written by multiple fans, with the man who publishes it being extremely arrogant despite being unable to stop inconsistencies in "his" writing.

Added: 964

Changed: 272

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None


* DesignatedVillain: Iwase, to [[BrokenBase some of the base]] that believe that her portrayal as a snobby bitch because she's smart and talented is sexist. On the other hand, Takagi later accepts her as a rival, which could indicate that we are not meant to agree with his initial reactions.

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* DesignatedVillain: DesignatedVillain:
**
Iwase, to [[BrokenBase some of the base]] that believe that her portrayal as a snobby bitch because she's smart and talented is sexist. On the other hand, Takagi later accepts her as a rival, which could indicate that we are not meant to agree with his initial reactions.reactions.
** The Editor-In-Chief is portrayed as unfair for putting ''Detective Trap'' on hiatus while Mashiro is hospitalized, then extending it until he graduates from school. All of Mashiro's rivals go together on a strike in protest and their editors start agreeing with them, and eventually the Editor has to compromise. A few reviewers instead expressed that while Mashiro's passion is admirable, and he managed to draw in these conditions, he really shouldn't be working while in a hospital, especially when his uncle's death from overworking was brought up in the same arc. His stubbornness [[spoiler:[[AllForNothing didn't save Detective Trap from cancellation due to low ratings anyway]]]].
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* StrangledByTheRedString: Azuri and Mashiro have almost no interactions with each other due to promises, making it hard to believe all the devotion they have for each other.

to:

* StrangledByTheRedString: Azuri Azuki and Mashiro have almost no interactions with each other due to promises, making it hard to believe all the devotion they have for each other.

Added: 263

Removed: 263

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Fixing indentation


** Azuki has her fair share of people (including WebVideo/RolloT of ''Podcast/WeeklyMangaRecap'') who find her relationship with Mashiro to be completely ridiculous and unbelievable, and [[SatelliteLoveInterest that she isn't defined as a character beyond that.]]



** Azuki has her fair share of people (including WebVideo/RolloT of ''Podcast/WeeklyMangaRecap'') who find her relationship with Mashiro to be completely ridiculous and unbelievable, and [[SatelliteLoveInterest that she isn't defined as a character beyond that.]]
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indentation, zce


* ValuesDissonance: ''"Men have dreams that women will never be able to understand!"''
** ValuesResonance: ''"Just so you know, women understand it, too."''

to:

* %%* ValuesDissonance: ''"Men have dreams that women will never be able to understand!"''
** %%* ValuesResonance: ''"Just so you know, women understand it, too."''
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Added DiffLines:

* AccidentalAesop: First impressions aren't everything. While Eiji comes off as tactless and arrogant at first glance, his remarks about drawing when he was younger hint at how it was the only form of entertainment available to a poor kid like him(and he turns out to be using his manga to help out his parents), and even his demand to cancel a manga if he becomes the top manga artist turns out to be [[spoiler:a way to end his series at the height of its popularity]]. Similarly, Fukuda, who comes off as abrasive at first glance, turns out to be a JerkWithAHeartOfGold who forms a group of collaborating manga artists, and the initially cold Aoki proves able to warm up to people like Takagi and Hiramaru over time. Contrast Nakai, who seems like a NiceGuy at first glance, but has hidden feelings of resentment and entitlement, and whose darker depths later become apparent.

Changed: 1

Removed: 208

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"Idiot Plot" is now Flame Bait.


** Iwase: Snobby and obsessed with competition? Or is she a talented woman who is determined to prove herself, but is a victim of UnfortunateImplications and/or Takagi's dismissing her as being fixated besting him?

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** Iwase: Snobby and obsessed with competition? Or is she a talented woman who is determined to prove herself, but is a victim of UnfortunateImplications Unfortunate Implications and/or Takagi's dismissing her as being fixated besting him?



* IdiotPlot: Chapter 63-65, with [[spoiler:Mashiro and Takagi putting their respective relationships at serious risk for keeping secrets, instead of just telling a truth that ''might'' make Miyoshi jealous.]]

Added: 528

Removed: 2278

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Villain Has A Point is not a YMMV trope


* {{Anvilicious}}: When Mashiro and Takagi end up [[PanderingToTheBase writing their story according to reader suggestions]] due to understandably being desperate to keep ''Detective Trap'' going, [[DumbassHasAPoint Miura, of all people, notices something's off and calls them out on it]]. He then points out that the fan mail doesn't represent the majority of the readers, and the readers are there for Mashiro and Takagi's story. It's not exactly subtle that it's a message against merely pandering in an attempt to gain popularity.



* {{Anvilicious}}: When Mashiro and Takagi end up [[PanderingToTheBase writing their story according to reader suggestions]] due to understandably being desperate to keep ''Detective Trap'' going, [[DumbassHasAPoint Miura, of all people, notices something's off and calls them out on it]]. He then points out that the fan mail doesn't represent the majority of the readers, and the readers are there for Mashiro and Takagi's story. It's not exactly subtle in how it criticizes merely pandering in an attempt to gain popularity.



* VillainHasAPoint: As obnoxious as Nanamine is, when Mashiro tells him that the only way to make manga is by working with an editor and he says there are other ways, it's hard not to concede that he has a point.
** It's acknowledged in series that there are manga produced without editors, such as doujinshi.
** Some artists in the series seem to work perfectly well without editors (such as Nizuma, who is never shown getting meaningful feedback or help from Yujiro and doesn't even show Yujiro his storyboards or have meetings with him until Fukuda insists. At one point Yujiro even admits that he can't think of any advice or help to give Nizuma).
** Some editors in the series weren't actually helpful. The most noticeable one was Miura, who repeatedly advised Takahama and Ashirogi to submit half-baked works which were rejected (such as when he had them submit Tanto the first time; he said that it would be accepted as long as Ashirogi completed three chapters but the work wasn't picked up). Miura also damaged Takahama's first work by insisting on add gag themes which Takahama wasn't good at, resulting in the work getting quickly canceled. And when Iwase ran into trouble following the conclusion of the +Natural anime, Miura was so distracted by other things that he was totally useless and gave no help. Given that, it's hard not to wonder if they might have been better served by getting advice from friends or others instead of Miura.
** It's also noted that Nanamine's company (which eschewed the editorial department) was genuinely capable of producing really good manga. All of Nanamine's submissions except for two (Yanagi's fantasy one-shot and Nanamine's 'Beauty and the Billionaire' one-shot) beat Ashirogi in the rankings.
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Foe Yay has been cut


* FoeYay:
** Takagi and Iwase. They start out as academic rivals, but when Takagi abandons his academic pursuits to become a mangaka, Iwase decides to challenge him as a mangaka. There's a fair amount of romantic subtext in this, especially in Iwase's one-sided feelings for him.
** [[SugarAndIcePersonality Aoki]] and [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold Fukuda]], who initially get along poorly, until Fukuda decides to help Aoki with FanService. Fukuda denies liking her, which his editor does not believe. [[spoiler:The truth is that he never had any romantic feelings for her]].
** To an extent, Takagi and Aoki, who initially begin as rivals, and who later meet and swap advice on writing the opposite gender. Aoki may have had feelings for Takagi, but if she did, she does not pursue them.
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None


** Some artists in the series seem to work perfectly well without editors (such as Nizuma, who is never shown getting meaningful feedback or help from Yujiro, to the point where Yujiro even admits at one point that he can't think of any advice or help to give Nizuma).
** Some editors in the series weren't actually helpful. The most noticeable one was Miura, who repeatedly advised Takahama and Ashirogi to submit half-baked works which were rejected (such as when he had them submit Tanto the first time; he said that it would be accepted as long as Ashirogi completed three chapters but the work wasn't picked up) Miura also damaged Takahama's first work by insisting on add gag themes which Takahama wasn't good at, resulting in the work getting quickly canceled. And when Iwase ran into trouble following the conclusion of the +Natural anime, Miura was so distracted by other things that he was totally useless and gave no help. Given that, it's hard not to wonder if they might have been better served by getting advice from friends or others instead of Miura.

to:

** Some artists in the series seem to work perfectly well without editors (such as Nizuma, who is never shown getting meaningful feedback or help from Yujiro, to the Yujiro and doesn't even show Yujiro his storyboards or have meetings with him until Fukuda insists. At one point where Yujiro even admits at one point that he can't think of any advice or help to give Nizuma).
** Some editors in the series weren't actually helpful. The most noticeable one was Miura, who repeatedly advised Takahama and Ashirogi to submit half-baked works which were rejected (such as when he had them submit Tanto the first time; he said that it would be accepted as long as Ashirogi completed three chapters but the work wasn't picked up) up). Miura also damaged Takahama's first work by insisting on add gag themes which Takahama wasn't good at, resulting in the work getting quickly canceled. And when Iwase ran into trouble following the conclusion of the +Natural anime, Miura was so distracted by other things that he was totally useless and gave no help. Given that, it's hard not to wonder if they might have been better served by getting advice from friends or others instead of Miura.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Some artists in the series seem to work perfectly well without editors (such as Nizuma, who is never shown getting meaningful feedback or help from Yujiro).

to:

** Some artists in the series seem to work perfectly well without editors (such as Nizuma, who is never shown getting meaningful feedback or help from Yujiro).Yujiro, to the point where Yujiro even admits at one point that he can't think of any advice or help to give Nizuma).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** It's also noted that Nanamine's company (which eschewed the editorial department) was genuinely capable of producing really good manga. All of Nanamine's submissions except for one beat Ashirogi in the rankings.

to:

** It's also noted that Nanamine's company (which eschewed the editorial department) was genuinely capable of producing really good manga. All of Nanamine's submissions except for one two (Yanagi's fantasy one-shot and Nanamine's 'Beauty and the Billionaire' one-shot) beat Ashirogi in the rankings.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* VillainHasAPoint: As obnoxious as Nanamine is, when Mashiro tells him that the only way to make manga is by working with an editor and he says there are other ways, it's hard not to concede that he has a point.
** It's acknowledged in series that there are manga produced without editors, such as doujinshi.
** Some artists in the series seem to work perfectly well without editors (such as Nizuma, who is never shown getting meaningful feedback or help from Yujiro).
** Some editors in the series weren't actually helpful. The most noticeable one was Miura, who repeatedly advised Takahama and Ashirogi to submit half-baked works which were rejected (such as when he had them submit Tanto the first time; he said that it would be accepted as long as Ashirogi completed three chapters but the work wasn't picked up) Miura also damaged Takahama's first work by insisting on add gag themes which Takahama wasn't good at, resulting in the work getting quickly canceled. And when Iwase ran into trouble following the conclusion of the +Natural anime, Miura was so distracted by other things that he was totally useless and gave no help. Given that, it's hard not to wonder if they might have been better served by getting advice from friends or others instead of Miura.
** It's also noted that Nanamine's company (which eschewed the editorial department) was genuinely capable of producing really good manga. All of Nanamine's submissions except for one beat Ashirogi in the rankings.

Removed: 1121

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Conversation in the main page. If we are meant to find the decision even partly reasonable then it's not a "strawman".


* StrawmanHasAPoint:
** An editorial decision to put Mashiro's manga on hiatus because he's severely overworking himself is shown in a completely negative light even though he had been hospitalized for said overworking with the doctor saying his condition could easily get worse. Even though there actually was some overreaction on the chief editor's part -- such as extending the hiatus after the hospitalization was over -- it still doesn't change the fact that Masahiro's self-proclaimed supporters also encouraged him to give it his all during his hospitalization, which the doctor had already declared unhealthy.
** It's unclear how unreasonable readers are supposed to find his decision (even if [[spoiler:the manga ends up declining in popularity and getting canceled partly as a result of the hiatus]]), since his decisions are largely characterized as tough but mostly fair, and even the main characters acknowledge that he has a point at times. With how the story ends up it's likely that readers were meant to see the enforced hiatus as reasonable but it being extended all the way until their graduation as not.

Changed: 220

Removed: 171

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None


* HilariousInHindsight: In-universe. The third chapter has Mashiro forcing Takagi into making a name, with Takagi complaining that he could just give Mashiro a script. [[spoiler: Guess how Eiji and Iwase make +Natural work, and how Mashiro and Takagi start taking the lead with PCP?]]
** The authors' occasional TakeThat towards Jump SQ (a romanization for Jump Square) becomes hilarious as their next work, ''Manga/PlatinumEnd'', is serialized there.

to:

* HilariousInHindsight: In-universe. The third chapter has Mashiro forcing Takagi into making a name, with Takagi complaining that he could just give Mashiro a script. [[spoiler: Guess how Eiji and Iwase make +Natural ''+Natural'' work, and how Mashiro and Takagi start taking the lead with PCP?]]
** The authors' occasional TakeThat towards Jump SQ (a romanization for Jump Square) ''Jump SQ'' becomes hilarious as their next work, ''Manga/PlatinumEnd'', is serialized there.



** It's common habit to discuss the series mentioned in Bakuman as if they are actual series.

to:

** It's common habit to discuss the series mentioned in Bakuman ''Bakuman'' as if they are actual series.



* ParanoiaFuel: In Classroom of Truth, you could, out of nowhere, be put into a survival tournament against the people you work or go to school with every day. The person who outwardly seems like a ReasonableAuthorityFigure is willing to kill you so he can survive. And if you have any secrets you want to keep from others, you can't, lest you die.

to:

* ParanoiaFuel: In Classroom ''Classroom of Truth, Truth'', you could, out of nowhere, be put into a survival tournament against the people you work or go to school with every day. The person who outwardly seems like a ReasonableAuthorityFigure is willing to kill you so he can survive. And if you have any secrets you want to keep from others, you can't, lest you die.



** Nakai got this spot too with the way he's acting recently.

to:

** %%** Nakai got this spot too with the way he's acting recently.



** It's unclear how unreasonable readers are supposed to find his decision (even if [[spoiler:the manga ends up declining in popularity and getting canceled partly as a result of the hiatus]]), since his decisions are largely characterized as tough but mostly fair, and even the main characters acknowledge that he has a point at times.
** With how the story ends up it's likely that readers were meant to see the enforced hiatus as reasonable but it being extended all the way until their graduation as not.

to:

** It's unclear how unreasonable readers are supposed to find his decision (even if [[spoiler:the manga ends up declining in popularity and getting canceled partly as a result of the hiatus]]), since his decisions are largely characterized as tough but mostly fair, and even the main characters acknowledge that he has a point at times.
**
times. With how the story ends up it's likely that readers were meant to see the enforced hiatus as reasonable but it being extended all the way until their graduation as not.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Takagi and Iwase. They start out as academic rivals, but when Takagi abandons his academic pursuits to become a mangaka, Iwasee decides to challenge him as a mangaka. There's a fair amount of romantic subtext in this, especially in Iwase's one-sided feelings for him.

to:

** Takagi and Iwase. They start out as academic rivals, but when Takagi abandons his academic pursuits to become a mangaka, Iwasee Iwase decides to challenge him as a mangaka. There's a fair amount of romantic subtext in this, especially in Iwase's one-sided feelings for him.

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