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** In his account, Sambrano also alleges the turn from the Get of Fenris to the Cult of Fenris was rooted in a desire by editorial to deal with the tribe's UnfortunateImplications in an era of rising fascism by just leaning into them full force, complete with the original proposal being that they're taken over entirely from within by the neo-Nazi Swords of Heimdall, who were killed to the last in Revised Edition. The writers allegedly pushed back on the tribe becoming 100% Nazi, but they are still framed as a lesson in the dangers of extremism and talked about in terms of ecofascism.

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** In his account, Sambrano also alleges the turn from the Get of Fenris to the Cult of Fenris was rooted in a desire by editorial to deal with the tribe's UnfortunateImplications [[invoked]]UnfortunateImplications in an era of rising fascism by just leaning into them full force, complete with the original proposal being that they're taken over entirely from within by the neo-Nazi Swords of Heimdall, who were killed to the last in Revised Edition. The writers allegedly pushed back on the tribe becoming 100% Nazi, but they are still framed as a lesson in the dangers of extremism and talked about in terms of ecofascism.
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** In his account, Sambrano also alleges the turn from the Get of Fenris to the Cult of Fenris was rooted in a desire to deal with the tribe's UnfortunateImplications in an era of rising fascism by just leaning into them full force, complete with the original proposal being that they're taken over entirely from within by the neo-Nazi Swords of Heimdall, who were killed to the last in Revised Edition.

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** In his account, Sambrano also alleges the turn from the Get of Fenris to the Cult of Fenris was rooted in a desire by editorial to deal with the tribe's UnfortunateImplications in an era of rising fascism by just leaning into them full force, complete with the original proposal being that they're taken over entirely from within by the neo-Nazi Swords of Heimdall, who were killed to the last in Revised Edition. The writers allegedly pushed back on the tribe becoming 100% Nazi, but they are still framed as a lesson in the dangers of extremism and talked about in terms of ecofascism.

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While it's appreciated you got the full phrasing Sambrano used in here, "shii [name] gonsee" is an Apache way of saying "My name is [name]," so "Shii" isn't a part of Sambrano's name.


* ExecutiveMeddling: One of the controversies of Fifth Edition was how to handle the more problematic elements of the game's history regarding indigenous rights. Shii J.F. Sambrano gonsēē, one of the indigineous writers involved in writing it, got into a conflict with Karim Muammar, the World of Darkness brand editor, over how best to handle this. [[https://www.patreon.com/posts/werewolf-5th-and-86463964 Shii describes his experiences here.]]

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* ExecutiveMeddling: One of the controversies of Fifth Edition was how to handle the more problematic elements of the game's history regarding indigenous rights. Shii J.F. Sambrano gonsēē, Sambrano, one of the indigineous writers involved in writing it, got into a conflict with Karim Muammar, the World of Darkness brand editor, over how best to handle this. [[https://www.patreon.com/posts/werewolf-5th-and-86463964 Shii He describes his experiences here.]]]]
** In his account, Sambrano also alleges the turn from the Get of Fenris to the Cult of Fenris was rooted in a desire to deal with the tribe's UnfortunateImplications in an era of rising fascism by just leaning into them full force, complete with the original proposal being that they're taken over entirely from within by the neo-Nazi Swords of Heimdall, who were killed to the last in Revised Edition.
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* ExecutiveMeddling: One of the controversies of Fifth Edition was how to handle the more problematic elements of the game's history regarding indigenous rights. Shii J.F. Sambrano gonsēē, one of the indigineous writers involved in writing it, got into a conflict with Karim Muammar, the WoD brand editor, over how best to handle this. [[https://www.patreon.com/posts/werewolf-5th-and-86463964 Shii describes his experiences here.]]

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* ExecutiveMeddling: One of the controversies of Fifth Edition was how to handle the more problematic elements of the game's history regarding indigenous rights. Shii J.F. Sambrano gonsēē, one of the indigineous writers involved in writing it, got into a conflict with Karim Muammar, the WoD World of Darkness brand editor, over how best to handle this. [[https://www.patreon.com/posts/werewolf-5th-and-86463964 Shii describes his experiences here.]]
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* ExecutiveMeddling: One of the controversies of Fifth Edition was how to handle the more problematic elements of the game's history regarding indigenous rights. Shii J.F. Sambrano gonsēē, one of the indigineous writers involved in writing it, got into a conflict with Karim Muammar, the WoD brand editor, over how best to handle this. [[https://www.patreon.com/posts/werewolf-5th-and-86463964 Shii describes his experiences here.]]
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* WhatCouldHaveBeen: A 5th Edition of the game was announced to be in development in 2019 by Hunters Entertainment. It drew a lot of fan engagement through Discord, but little was revealed other than a trailer an an ever increasingly inclusive list of writers. A year later, this edition was cancelled when Paradox decided to consolidate core rule book production, without fanfare. Eventually a 5th edition would release in 2023, penned by Renegade Game Studios, but no one can tell how much it shares with Hunters' version.
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Fifth edition did release


* WhatCouldHaveBeen: A 5th Edition of the game was announced to be in development in 2019 by Hunters Entertainment. It drew a lot of fan engagement through Discord, but little was revealed other than a trailer an an ever increasingly inclusive list of writers. A year later, this edition was cancelled when Paradox decided to consolidate core rule book production, without fanfare.

Removed: 81

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* TheWikiRule: The [[http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page White Wolf Wiki]].
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* WhatCouldHaveBeen: A 5th Edition of the game was announced to be in development in 2019 by Hunters Entertainment. It drew a lot of fan engagement through discord, but little was revealed other than a trailer an an ever increasingly inclusive list of writers. A year later, this edition was cancelled when Paradox decided to consolidate core rule book production, without fanfare.

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* WhatCouldHaveBeen: A 5th Edition of the game was announced to be in development in 2019 by Hunters Entertainment. It drew a lot of fan engagement through discord, Discord, but little was revealed other than a trailer an an ever increasingly inclusive list of writers. A year later, this edition was cancelled when Paradox decided to consolidate core rule book production, without fanfare.
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No longer Trivia. See X Source Cleanup.


* ImageSource: GreenAesop

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* ScienceMarchesOn: ''Rage Across the Heavens'' deals with Garou astrology and assigns each of the 13 tribes and a patron spirit to the most significant planetary bodies in the Solar System. However, it relies on concepts that have been outdated for years. Namely, the Uktena's patron planet is Vulcan, a theoretical body on opposite end of Mercury's orbit, to explain how it revolves so fast, but it's been proven to not actually exist. The book also states the once-popular theory that the Asteroid Belt is the remnants of a destroyed planet, which we also know is not the case (Pluto gets a pass, since the Planetary Incarnae don't necessarily have to represent full-size planets). One could argue that the Garou zodiac system was set up centuries before modern astronomy, except you can actually ''visit'' Vulcan despite its nonexistence on the physical plane. This is less the purview of ''Werewolf'', but reality levels get a ''mite'' thin once you get past Earth's atmosphere (and get ''really'' thin when you past the Asteroid Belt). There probably actually ''is'' a physical Vulcan somewhere in the World of Darkness' solar system, perfectly content to keep existing despite being disproven. Also, following the reclassification of Pluto as a dwarf planet, its planetary incarna Meros departs from the Solar System.
** In-universe, this is entirely fitting, as The Technocracy (a group of [[TabletopGame/MageTheAscension mages rather than werewolves]]) more-or-less run the human world since the Renaissance. The Technocracy wants ''order'' and dislikes vampires, werewolves, other mages, and anything supernatural; and since mages run on ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve, they are entirely capable of wiping the planet Vulcan out of existence by convincing ordinary humans that it doesn't exist. The Technocracy Marches On.

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* ScienceMarchesOn: ''Rage Across the Heavens'' deals with Garou astrology and assigns each of the 13 tribes and a patron spirit to the most significant planetary bodies in the Solar System. However, it relies on concepts that have been outdated for years. Namely, the Uktena's patron planet is Vulcan, a theoretical body on opposite end of Mercury's orbit, to explain how it revolves so fast, but it's been proven to not actually exist. The book also states the once-popular theory that the Asteroid Belt is the remnants of a destroyed planet, which we also know is not the case (Pluto gets a pass, since the Planetary Incarnae don't necessarily have to represent full-size planets). One could argue that the Garou zodiac system was set up centuries before modern astronomy, except you can actually ''visit'' Vulcan despite its nonexistence on the physical plane. This is less the purview of ''Werewolf'', but reality levels get a ''mite'' thin once you get past Earth's atmosphere (and get ''really'' thin when you past the Asteroid Belt). There probably actually ''is'' a physical Vulcan somewhere in the World of Darkness' solar system, perfectly content to keep existing despite being disproven. Also, following the reclassification of Pluto as a dwarf planet, its planetary incarna Meros departs from the Solar System.
**
System. In-universe, all this is entirely fitting, as The Technocracy (a group of [[TabletopGame/MageTheAscension mages rather than werewolves]]) more-or-less run the human world since the Renaissance. The Technocracy wants ''order'' and dislikes vampires, werewolves, other mages, and anything supernatural; and since mages run on ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve, they are entirely capable of wiping the planet Vulcan out of existence by convincing ordinary humans that it doesn't exist. The Technocracy Marches On.
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* ScienceMarchesOn: ''Rage Across the Heavens'' deals with Garou astrology and assigns each of the 13 tribes and a patron spirit to the most significant planetary bodies in the Solar System. However, it relies on concepts that have been outdated for years. Namely, the Uktena's patron planet is Vulcan, a theoretical body on opposite end of Mercury's orbit, to explain how it revolves so fast, but it's been proven to not actually exist. The book also states the once-popular theory that the Asteroid Belt is the remnants of a destroyed planet, which we also know is not the case (Pluto gets a pass, since the Planetary Incarnae don't necessarily have to represent full-size planets). One could argue that the Garou zodiac system was set up centuries before modern astronomy, except you can actually ''visit'' Vulcan despite its nonexistence on the physical plane. This is less the purview of ''Werewolf'', but reality levels get a ''mite'' thin once you get past Earth's atmosphere (and get ''really'' thin when you past the Asteroid Belt). There probably actually ''is'' a physical Vulcan somewhere in the World of Darkness' solar system, perfectly content to keep existing despite being disproven. Also, following the reclassification of Pluto as a dwarf planet, its planetary incarna Meros departs from the Solar System.
** In-universe, this is entirely fitting, as The Technocracy (a group of [[TabletopGame/MageTheAscension mages rather than werewolves]]) more-or-less run the human world since the Renaissance. The Technocracy wants ''order'' and dislikes vampires, werewolves, other mages, and anything supernatural; and since mages run on ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve, they are entirely capable of wiping the planet Vulcan out of existence by convincing ordinary humans that it doesn't exist. The Technocracy Marches On.



* WhatCouldHaveBeen: A 5th Edition of the game was announced to be in development in 2019 by Hunters Entertainment. It drew a lot of fan engagement through discord, but little was revealed other than a trailer an an ever increasingly inclusive list of writers. A year later, this edition was cancelled when Paradox decided to consolidate core rule book production, without fanfare.

to:

* WhatCouldHaveBeen: A 5th Edition of the game was announced to be in development in 2019 by Hunters Entertainment. It drew a lot of fan engagement through discord, but little was revealed other than a trailer an an ever increasingly inclusive list of writers. A year later, this edition was cancelled when Paradox decided to consolidate core rule book production, without fanfare.fanfare.
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* ImageSource: GreenAesop
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* TheWikiRule: The [[http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page White Wolf Wiki]].

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* TheWikiRule: The [[http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page White Wolf Wiki]].Wiki]].
* WhatCouldHaveBeen: A 5th Edition of the game was announced to be in development in 2019 by Hunters Entertainment. It drew a lot of fan engagement through discord, but little was revealed other than a trailer an an ever increasingly inclusive list of writers. A year later, this edition was cancelled when Paradox decided to consolidate core rule book production, without fanfare.
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Added DiffLines:

* TheWikiRule: The [[http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page White Wolf Wiki]].

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