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** ''UnintentionallyUnsympathetic/OnceUponATime''
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It's an ''especially'' easy trap to fall into for villains: sometimes, a villain (or other antagonistic character) is meant to be seen as an AntiVillain, morally gray, or a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds, but their FreudianExcuse just doesn't cover the acts they go on to commit. For example, if the heroes bought the villain’s narrative that their little sister died in that [[ConvenientlyEmptyBuilding building a superhero battle knocked over]], thus somehow causing them to try to [[EarthShatteringKaboom blow up the hero's entire planet]], that would make them unsympathetic to the audience, despite the narrative claiming the villain as such. (However, if the [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse heroes throw that excuse back at the villain]] and treat them as a selfish monster, they are not ''unintentionally'' unsympathetic.)

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It's an ''especially'' easy trap to fall into for villains: sometimes, a villain (or other antagonistic character) is meant to be seen as an AntiVillain, morally gray, or a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds, but their FreudianExcuse just doesn't cover the acts they go on to commit. For example, if the heroes bought the villain’s narrative that their little sister died in that [[ConvenientlyEmptyBuilding building a superhero battle knocked over]], thus somehow causing them to try to [[EarthShatteringKaboom blow up the hero's entire planet]], that would make them unsympathetic to the audience, despite the narrative claiming the villain as such. (However, if the [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse heroes throw that excuse back at the villain]] and treat them as a selfish monster, they are not ''unintentionally'' ''intentionally'' unsympathetic.)
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* Every now and then, ''Website/NotAlwaysRight'' gets an entry where the submitter clearly thinks the incident was funny, awesome, or worthy of sympathy and where they consider themselves to be right... only for the readers to disagree completely and make their opinions clear in the comments section. [[https://notalwaysright.com/happy-birthday-to-whom/110192/ This]] entry is a good example; apparently most other people don't think it's funny or cute when you deliberately snub and humiliate a schoolgirl on her actual birthday, while also putting the shyest girl in class in an awkward situation by singing "happy birthday" for her instead. General consensus? "Wow, all of you are complete assholes."
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** ''UnintentionallyUnsympathetic/MarvelCinematicUniverse''
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** ''UnintentionallyUnsympathetic/ThirteenReasonsWhy''
** ''UnintentionallyUnsympathetic/TheBigBangTheory''
** ''UnintentionallyUnsympathetic/CobraKai''



** ''UnintentionallyUnsympathetic/LawAndOrderSpecialVictimsUnit''
** ''UnintentionallyUnsympathetic/MarvelCinematicUniverse''
** ''UnintentionallyUnsympathetic/TheOfficeUS''



** ''UnintentionallyUnsympathetic/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine''
** ''UnintentionallyUnsympathetic/StrangerThings''



** ''UnintentionallyUnsympathetic/TrueBlood''
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* ''WebAnimation/HelluvaBoss'': Loona. She beats up her adoptive dad despite him never once raising a hand towards her, rescued her from an OrphanageOfFear and completely dotes on her. She snaps at the slightest bit of criticism and treats her coworkers like crap, and it’s meant to be played off as humorous and endearing.

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* ''WebAnimation/HelluvaBoss'': Loona. She beats up her adoptive dad despite him never once raising a hand towards her, rescued her from an OrphanageOfFear and completely dotes on her. She snaps at the slightest bit of criticism and treats her coworkers like crap, and it’s meant to be played off as humorous and endearing. [[DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale This is the same show]] where the abuse that characters like Moxxie and Stolas face from [[AbusiveParents Crimson]] and [[DomesticAbuse Stella]] is played ''dead straight and not for laughs at all.''
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* Web Original
** ''UnintentionallyUnsympathetic/NotAlwaysRight''
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Crosswicking

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* ''WebVideo/JetLagTheGame'': Ben in ''Tag EUR It 2'', after he [[spoiler:hides in the photo booth in Metz to throw off Sam & Adam.]] There is a rule against hiding in bathrooms, as the chasers searching through one would violate bystanders' privacy. [[spoiler:Some fans want this rule to be extended to photo booths, since it would likewise be very rude to interrupt a stranger in one.]]


* ''Literature/JeffTheKiller'': One of the most common criticisms of this story is that Jeff falls into this. He's meant to be seen as a TragicVillain who snapped after the severe physical and mental trauma he went through. However, many people think he loses the "tragic" angle when he murders his own family, who mostly hadn't done anything to deserve it. While killing his mother could be seen as a twisted form of self defense given that she told her husband to get the gun and kill Jeff and he just caught her saying this, his father did ''not'' agree to her request or even have a chance to before Jeff killed them both, and barring some minor negligence, he really had nothing to do with his son's suffering. The implication that he killed his brother Liu as well especially makes people abandon sympathy for him considering the fact that Liu [[UngratefulBastard took the fall for a crime Jeff was accused of committing and went to juvie for him]].
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Morally gray =/= villain; by definition, a morally grey character cannot be pegged as good OR evil.


It's an ''especially'' easy trap to fall into for villains: sometimes, a villain is meant to be seen as an AntiVillain, morally gray, or a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds, but their FreudianExcuse just doesn't cover the acts they go on to commit. For example, if the heroes bought the villain’s narrative that their little sister died in that [[ConvenientlyEmptyBuilding building a superhero battle knocked over]], thus somehow causing them to try to [[EarthShatteringKaboom blow up the hero's entire planet]], that would make them unsympathetic to the audience, despite the narrative claiming the villain as such. (However, if the [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse heroes throw that excuse back at the villain]] and treat them as a selfish monster, they are not ''unintentionally'' unsympathetic.)

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It's an ''especially'' easy trap to fall into for villains: sometimes, a villain (or other antagonistic character) is meant to be seen as an AntiVillain, morally gray, or a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds, but their FreudianExcuse just doesn't cover the acts they go on to commit. For example, if the heroes bought the villain’s narrative that their little sister died in that [[ConvenientlyEmptyBuilding building a superhero battle knocked over]], thus somehow causing them to try to [[EarthShatteringKaboom blow up the hero's entire planet]], that would make them unsympathetic to the audience, despite the narrative claiming the villain as such. (However, if the [[FreudianExcuseIsNoExcuse heroes throw that excuse back at the villain]] and treat them as a selfish monster, they are not ''unintentionally'' unsympathetic.)
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* Evan Hansen from, well, ''Theatre/DearEvanHansen''. While it's initially not his fault that Connor's family believes Evan to be their deceased son's best friend, the fact he not only fails to correct their misunderstanding but actively ''tells more lies'', dates the boy's grieving sister (after a frankly somewhat squicky song that manages to veer into IncestSubtext territory as he lies to her about how her dead brother loved her after all...by telling her things ''he'', the boy romantically in love with her, likes about her), and almost accepts money from them, makes it very hard to feel as sorry for him as the show seems to expect. Other characters do criticize Evan's behavior (the entirety of the song "Good For You", for a start), so the show isn't trying to say he did ''nothing'' wrong, but at the end of the day, he's still portrayed as a basically good kid who made a mistake because of his bad mental health and desire for love--but his actions are so manipulative, selfish, and callous that it's a hard pill to swallow for many.
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New page added, so I'm putting it in the index,

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** ''UnintentionallyUnsympathetic/WarriorCats''
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Corbin does have a legit wife, but I didn't know that when I originally wrote the entry.


* In summer 2021, Wrestling/BaronCorbin underwent a HumiliationConga starting with losing his CoolCrown & status as king to Wrestling/ShinsukeNakamura, that seemed to be an attempt to have him make a HeelFaceTurn. The problem with this is Corbin's troubles are so over the top[[note]]somehow, no longer being King means that he lost all his money, his car, had to move in with his (non-existent) wife's (non-existent) parents, has to take the bus, etc.[[/note]] that his whole situation [[{{Narm}} borders on the comical]]. Adding to this is massive FridgeLogic (if he's poor, why does he still appear every week on WWE TV?) and the fact that despite being depicted as a [[WesternAnimation/SpongebobSquarepants Squidward]]-level ButtMonkey, he still gets booed by the fans cause they haven't forgotten how much of a JerkAss he was (which Wrestling/KevinOwens even [[LampshadeHanging pointed out]] is the main reason people are reluctant to help him).

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* In summer 2021, Wrestling/BaronCorbin underwent a HumiliationConga starting with losing his CoolCrown & status as king to Wrestling/ShinsukeNakamura, that seemed to be an attempt to have him make a HeelFaceTurn. The problem with this is Corbin's troubles are so over the top[[note]]somehow, no longer being King means that he lost all his money, his car, had to move in with his (non-existent) wife's (non-existent) parents, has to take the bus, etc.[[/note]] that his whole situation [[{{Narm}} borders on the comical]]. Adding to this is massive FridgeLogic (if he's poor, why does he still appear every week on WWE TV?) and the fact that despite being depicted as a [[WesternAnimation/SpongebobSquarepants Squidward]]-level ButtMonkey, he still gets booed by the fans cause they haven't forgotten how much of a JerkAss he was (which Wrestling/KevinOwens even [[LampshadeHanging pointed out]] is the main reason people are reluctant to help him).
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Often a problem with TheScrappy, the DesignatedHero, or a badly done JerkassWoobie. Even a regular [[TheWoobie Woobie]] character can fall victim to this if they are [[{{Wangst}} overly whiny]] or [[DramaQueen overly dramatic]] (essentially acting more like a SpoiledBrat throwing a temper tantrum than a ''real'' victim you can actually sympathize with).

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Often a problem with TheScrappy, the DesignatedHero, or a badly poorly done JerkassWoobie. Even a regular [[TheWoobie Woobie]] character can fall victim to this if they are [[{{Wangst}} overly whiny]] or [[DramaQueen overly dramatic]] (essentially acting more like a SpoiledBrat throwing a temper tantrum than a ''real'' victim you can actually sympathize with).
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When a character's purpose is to get sympathy or motivation from the audience which fails because their story or personality is written badly. It can be made even worse if they have to learn a lesson. Without being at least somewhat invested in the characters, the audience might have passed the point of caring when the character finally comes around.

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When a character's purpose is to get sympathy or motivation from the audience which fails because their story or personality is written badly.poorly. It can be made even worse if they have to learn a lesson. Without being at least somewhat invested in the characters, the audience might have passed the point of caring when the character finally comes around.
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* ''WebVideo/HistoryOfPowerRangers'': While also providing the page quote, Linkara also has an inverse view of mutantkind and Time Force compared with some of the fandom he was given. He thought that despite Ransik's sympathetic origin, his consistent evil and ingratitude justifies everyone's fears about him. And conversely, there isn't enough provided material in the show to fully have sympathetic mutants, as only 1 mutant ever had more sympathetic reasons for being in the cryo-prison, and there were even 2 examples of mutants who were given more privileges, and they betrayed society's trust.

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* ''WebVideo/HistoryOfPowerRangers'': While also providing the page quote, Linkara also has %%History of Power Rangers is not an inverse view of mutantkind and Time Force compared with some of the fandom he was given. He thought that example despite Ransik's sympathetic origin, his consistent evil and ingratitude justifies everyone's fears about him. And conversely, there isn't enough provided material in the show to fully have sympathetic mutants, as only 1 mutant ever had more sympathetic reasons for being in the cryo-prison, and there were even 2 examples of mutants who were given more privileges, and they betrayed society's trust.quote fitting per https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?parent_id=127492&type=att
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Spelling fix


* ''WebVideo/HistoryOfPowerRangers'': While also providing the page quote, Linkara also has an inverse view of mutantkind and Time Force compared with some of the fandom he was given. He thought that despite Ransik's sympathetic origin, his consistant evil and ingratitude justifies everyone's fears about him. And conversely, there isn't enough provided material in the show to fully have sympathetic mutants, as only 1 mutant ever had more sympathetic reasons for being in the cryo-prison, and there were even 2 examples of mutants who were given more privileges, and they betrayed society's trust.

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* ''WebVideo/HistoryOfPowerRangers'': While also providing the page quote, Linkara also has an inverse view of mutantkind and Time Force compared with some of the fandom he was given. He thought that despite Ransik's sympathetic origin, his consistant consistent evil and ingratitude justifies everyone's fears about him. And conversely, there isn't enough provided material in the show to fully have sympathetic mutants, as only 1 mutant ever had more sympathetic reasons for being in the cryo-prison, and there were even 2 examples of mutants who were given more privileges, and they betrayed society's trust.
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Page moved


* ''WebOriginal/JeffTheKiller'': One of the most common criticisms of this story is that Jeff falls into this. He's meant to be seen as a TragicVillain who snapped after the severe physical and mental trauma he went through. However, many people think he loses the "tragic" angle when he murders his own family, who mostly hadn't done anything to deserve it. While killing his mother could be seen as a twisted form of self defense given that she told her husband to get the gun and kill Jeff and he just caught her saying this, his father did ''not'' agree to her request or even have a chance to before Jeff killed them both, and barring some minor negligence, he really had nothing to do with his son's suffering. The implication that he killed his brother Liu as well especially makes people abandon sympathy for him considering the fact that Liu [[UngratefulBastard took the fall for a crime Jeff was accused of committing and went to juvie for him]].

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* ''WebOriginal/JeffTheKiller'': ''Literature/JeffTheKiller'': One of the most common criticisms of this story is that Jeff falls into this. He's meant to be seen as a TragicVillain who snapped after the severe physical and mental trauma he went through. However, many people think he loses the "tragic" angle when he murders his own family, who mostly hadn't done anything to deserve it. While killing his mother could be seen as a twisted form of self defense given that she told her husband to get the gun and kill Jeff and he just caught her saying this, his father did ''not'' agree to her request or even have a chance to before Jeff killed them both, and barring some minor negligence, he really had nothing to do with his son's suffering. The implication that he killed his brother Liu as well especially makes people abandon sympathy for him considering the fact that Liu [[UngratefulBastard took the fall for a crime Jeff was accused of committing and went to juvie for him]].

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Now an index


Just like with CursedWithAwesome, it can be hard to dredge up sad feelings for a character whose life is in every respect more glamorous (or at very least, more interesting) than the audience members'. True unintentional unsympathy is generally reserved for [[AcceptableTargets unpopular traits]] like being overweight or a nerd, both of which tend to be grossly exaggerated on television (see HollywoodPudgy) and usually have nothing to do with anyone who might have such problems.

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Just like with CursedWithAwesome, it can be hard to dredge up sad feelings for a character whose life is in every respect more glamorous (or at very least, more interesting) than the audience members'. True unintentional unsympathy is generally reserved for [[AcceptableTargets unpopular traits]] traits like being overweight or a nerd, both of which tend to be grossly exaggerated on television (see HollywoodPudgy) and usually have nothing to do with anyone who might have such problems.
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* ''TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering'': War of the Spark'' tried to redeem TokenEvilTeammate Liliana by having her (at least intend to) sacrifice her life to help defeat BigBad Nicol Bolas, but it fell flat for a lot of people for several reasons. First, despite being enslaved by Bolas under threat of death, the situation fails to build sympathy by being entirely and predictably Liliana's own fault, being a direct result of her willingly bargaining with demons for her own power and vanity. Second, she only turns against Bolas when she realises how his victory would make her own life suck, making her actions feel more out of pragmatism than a genuine change of heart. Finally, her actions immediately afterward follow the same pattern they always have - fleeing the scene as soon as it's safe and convenient, putting the preservation of her own safety above trying to face and make amends to her victims. This made it hard for players to get on board with her "angsty victim" routine during her next appearance in ''Strixhaven''.

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* ''TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering'': War ''War of the Spark'' tried to redeem TokenEvilTeammate Liliana by having her (at least intend to) sacrifice her life to help defeat BigBad Nicol Bolas, but it fell flat for a lot of people for several reasons. First, despite being enslaved by Bolas under threat of death, the situation fails to build sympathy by being entirely and predictably Liliana's own fault, being a direct result of her willingly bargaining with demons for her own power and vanity. Second, she only turns against Bolas when she realises how his victory would make her own life suck, making her actions feel more out of pragmatism than a genuine change of heart. Finally, her actions immediately afterward follow the same pattern they always have - fleeing the scene as soon as it's safe and convenient, putting the preservation of her own safety above trying to face and make amends to her victims. This made it hard for players to get on board with her "angsty victim" routine during her next appearance in ''Strixhaven''.

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* In a meta sense, the "murder hobo" style of play can come across as this. Adventurers who are ostensibly the "good guys" (and who may even maintain a capital "G" Good alignment depending on the DM) but whose first solution to every problem is kicking down the door and killing everything in sight, regardless of whether or not a non-violent solution would have been possible. Even for the characters that aren't played as [[BloodKnight omnicidal blood knights]] it can be hard to necessarily feel sympathetic for them when their life of absurd adventuring catches up to them. [[TooDumbToLive What did you think would happen when you jumped into that volcano full of undead and demons?]]

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* In a meta sense, the "murder hobo" style of play can come across as this. Adventurers who are ostensibly the "good guys" (and who may even maintain a capital "G" Good alignment depending on the DM) but whose first solution to every problem is kicking down the door and killing everything in sight, regardless of whether or not a non-violent solution would have been possible. Even for the characters that aren't played as [[BloodKnight omnicidal blood knights]] it can be hard to necessarily feel sympathetic for them when their life of absurd adventuring catches up to them. [[TooDumbToLive What did you think would happen when you jumped into that volcano full of undead and demons?]]d''emons?]]
* ''TabletopGame/MagicTheGathering'': War of the Spark'' tried to redeem TokenEvilTeammate Liliana by having her (at least intend to) sacrifice her life to help defeat BigBad Nicol Bolas, but it fell flat for a lot of people for several reasons. First, despite being enslaved by Bolas under threat of death, the situation fails to build sympathy by being entirely and predictably Liliana's own fault, being a direct result of her willingly bargaining with demons for her own power and vanity. Second, she only turns against Bolas when she realises how his victory would make her own life suck, making her actions feel more out of pragmatism than a genuine change of heart. Finally, her actions immediately afterward follow the same pattern they always have - fleeing the scene as soon as it's safe and convenient, putting the preservation of her own safety above trying to face and make amends to her victims. This made it hard for players to get on board with her "angsty victim" routine during her next appearance in ''Strixhaven''.
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* ''WebAnimation/MangaSoprano'':
** Despite being one of the main heroines, Kanade comes off as annoying because of her [[ExtremeDoormat complete inability to stand up for herself]], her constant [[IAmNotPretty denial about being pretty]] despite looking otherwise, and the fact that she is [[HorribleJudgeOfCharacter too trusting and kind towards those who want to hurt or take advantage of her]] can get on the viewers' nerves, especially when these flaws make her too reliant on other characters (especially [[LoveInterest Alto]]) to solve her problems if there's no ContrivedCoincidence to do so.
** Ram from [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XedhgDieOko "My sister plundered my fiancé! Now my arranged marriage partner is also plundered"]] comes off as this after it's revealed that the man her sister Nonoka stole from her, Ikki-san, was [[spoiler:a sexist jerk and a domestic abuser who trapped her in the marriage]]. When Nonoka begged Ram for help, she kept blaming her for her decision and eventually kicked her out of her apartment. Sure, Nonoka was a malicious spoiled brat, but intentionally leaving her in the dark when she was about to marry [[spoiler:an abuser and then rebuff her cries for help by leaving her to rot in said marriage]] comes off as DisproportionateRetribution on Ram's part. It doesn't help that the voice acting for Nonoka makes it sound like she's sincerely sorry for what she did.

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* Calvin's parents in ''ComicStrip/CalvinAndHobbes'' are this. ParentsAsPeople is in full effect here (perhaps a [[GoneHorriblyRight little too much so]]), and Calvin is a BrattyHalfPint, but his own parents were hardly ever seen interacting with him in a loving way or trying to understand him, even though many 21st century readers see Calvin as having, at the very least, an undiagnosed disorder. There are also several strips where they act like they downright hate or neglect Calvin and consider themselves martyrs for having to put up with him, like when his mother threw Calvin out hours before the school bus arrives so she can get a morning free, or when his father said he'd would rather have raised a dog and considered throwing Calvin into the alligator pit at the zoo. Some strips have them guilt-trip Calvin for giving him food, clothing and shelter -- things they're ''legally obligated'' to provide him with as his parents, making it look like a textbook case of [[WantsAPrizeForBasicDecency expecting praise just for doing what they're supposed to be doing]], an attitude [[DoubleStandard the strip unambiguously condemns whenever Calvin expresses it]]. There are ''some'' tender moments between Calvin and his parents, but they are few and far between. It would get so bad that Bill Watterson had to address it in a commentary, where he expressed regret that Calvin's parents were mostly seen when they were in a bad mood, but Watterson has also claimed that "they did better than [he] would've" with regards to Calvin. Which tells you a lot...

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* ''ComicStrip/CalvinAndHobbes'':
**
Calvin's parents in ''ComicStrip/CalvinAndHobbes'' are this. ParentsAsPeople is in full effect here (perhaps a [[GoneHorriblyRight little too much so]]), and Calvin is a BrattyHalfPint, but his own parents were hardly ever seen interacting with him in a loving way or trying to understand him, even though many 21st century readers see Calvin as having, at the very least, an undiagnosed disorder. There are also several strips where they act like they downright hate or neglect Calvin and consider themselves martyrs for having to put up with him, like when his mother threw Calvin out hours before the school bus arrives so she can get a morning free, or when his father said he'd would rather have raised a dog and considered throwing Calvin into the alligator pit at the zoo. Some strips have them guilt-trip Calvin for giving him food, clothing and shelter -- things they're ''legally obligated'' to provide him with as his parents, making it look like a textbook case of [[WantsAPrizeForBasicDecency expecting praise just for doing what they're supposed to be doing]], an attitude [[DoubleStandard the strip unambiguously condemns whenever Calvin expresses it]]. There are ''some'' tender moments between Calvin and his parents, but they are few and far between. It would get so bad that Bill Watterson had to address it in a commentary, where he expressed regret that Calvin's parents were mostly seen when they were in a bad mood, but Watterson has also claimed that "they did better than [he] would've" with regards to Calvin. Which tells you a lot...lot...
** For that matter, Calvin himself. Sure he's a kid, but he's also cost his parents large amounts of money in repair bills, constantly harasses Susie, sprays his mom with the garden hose after she's spent a long time getting dressed up, etc.
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* ''Webcomic/LasLindas'':
** Mora in the early comic is quite a piece of work. She does all sorts of questionable things that either go unpunished or downplayed and has severe bouts of anger that eventually get brushed aside whenever she starts crying to elicit sympathy. Rehiring Miles (after having blackmailed and revenge slept with him) is literally the only time she ever manages to "fix" one of her many mistakes, and even then, it was as an apology to Minos instead of the actual victim.
** Minos feeling hurt by Mora criticizing his artistry is one thing. Entertaining and validating Rachael's feelings for him because of that is another (as it comes off as uncharacteristically petty), especially since he's meant to be the wisest, most mature character in the cast.
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* ''WebAnimation/MikeAndMelissa'': Mike portrays himself as an insecure loner who surrounds himself with a shallow, metalhead friend group, and his lack of a romantic relationship is played for sympathy. However, in the scene where he's waiting at his bus stop, a woman stands next to him, [[ItsAllAboutMe to which we hear him think that]] ''[[ItsAllAboutMe she]]'' [[ItsAllAboutMe should say hi to him rather than approach her himself,]] and gets upset when she ignores him and leaves. He also portrays his ex-girlfriend as a monster, making him seem like a {{Jerkass}}.
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* ''WebOriginal/JeffTheKiller'': One of the most common criticisms of this story is that Jeff falls into this. He's meant to be seen as a TragicVillain who snapped after the severe physical and mental trauma he went through. However, many people think he loses the "tragic" angle when he murders his own family, who mostly hadn't done anything to deserve it. While killing his mother could be seen as a twisted form of self defense given that she told her husband to get the gun and kill Jeff and he just caught her saying this, his father did ''not'' agree to her request or even have a chance to before Jeff killed them both, and barring some minor negligence, he really had nothing to do with his son's suffering. The implication that he killsed his brother Liu as well especially makes people abandon sympathy for him considering the fact that Liu [[UngratefulBastard took the fall for a crime Jeff was accused of committing and went to juvie for him]].

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* ''WebOriginal/JeffTheKiller'': One of the most common criticisms of this story is that Jeff falls into this. He's meant to be seen as a TragicVillain who snapped after the severe physical and mental trauma he went through. However, many people think he loses the "tragic" angle when he murders his own family, who mostly hadn't done anything to deserve it. While killing his mother could be seen as a twisted form of self defense given that she told her husband to get the gun and kill Jeff and he just caught her saying this, his father did ''not'' agree to her request or even have a chance to before Jeff killed them both, and barring some minor negligence, he really had nothing to do with his son's suffering. The implication that he killsed killed his brother Liu as well especially makes people abandon sympathy for him considering the fact that Liu [[UngratefulBastard took the fall for a crime Jeff was accused of committing and went to juvie for him]].
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Page was made by ban evader.


** ''UnintentionallyUnsympathetic/{{Disney}}''
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** ''UnintentionallyUnsympathetic/{{Disney}}''

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