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merge relevant info from Moon Logic Puzzle which repeated the gold/feathers puzzle


* The original form of the question was "A pound of lead or a pound of feathers?" The question is designed to play on the listener's inherent association of lead being heavier than feather. '''Standard Solution''': [[spoiler:They both weigh the same since they're both a pound.]]
** The most common variant instead asks: "A pound of ''gold'' or a pound of feathers?" This version plays on the listener's inherent association of gold being heavier than feather, and also screws with people who already know the answer to the original version of the question. '''Solution''': [[spoiler: The feathers are heavier, since precious metals like gold are measured in Troy weight, not avoirdupois pounds (one Troy pound being about 370 grams, and one avoirdupois pound being around 450 grams). The answer is reversed if you word the question in terms of ounces, with the Troy ounce of gold being heavier.]]
** Alternatively, [[spoiler: the phrasing could imply a quantity ''worth a British pound''. How many feathers can you buy for a pound?]]

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* The original form of the question was "A pound of lead or a pound of feathers?" The question is designed to play on the listener's inherent association of lead being heavier than feather.feathers. '''Standard Solution''': [[spoiler:They both weigh the same since they're both a pound.]]
** The most common variant instead asks: "A pound of ''gold'' or a pound of feathers?" This version plays on the listener's inherent association of gold being heavier than feather, feathers, and also screws with people who already know the answer to the original version of the question. '''Solution''': [[spoiler: The feathers are heavier, since heavier. The gold weighs about 373.2 grams while the feathers weigh about 453.6 grams.]] [[labelnote:Long explanation]]The pound originated among coastal European traders, but different industries used different systems of measurement. One of the first standard units was the grain, literally based on grains of wheat (about ~64.8 milligrams today). Then the precious metals like gold are measured in Troy weight, not industry decided that one pennyweight was 24 grains, one ounce was 20 pennyweights (480 grains), and one pound was 12 ounces (5760 grains). This system got known as the troy system, so "troy ounces"/"troy pounds"/etc. Meanwhile, other industries converged around the avoirdupois system, which had its own completely different pound at 7000 grains and decided to break it up into 16 ounces (437.5 grains). The British Empire eventually kept both when it created the Imperial system of measurement and spread it around the whole empire, where both systems remain in use to various degrees today. Avoirdupois pounds (one Troy are far more common since they were used in so many industries, but one place where troy pounds/ounces are still used is in the United Nations currency standards, where gold is treated as a "non-national" currency and its unit denomination is 1 troy ounce. (Look up the official currency code XAU and try to convert it into EUR/GBP/USD/etc.) Thus, "a pound being about 370 grams, and one of gold" means a troy pound, while "a pound of feathers" means an avoirdupois pound being around 450 grams). The pound. (For a weak analogy, picture that "one dollar" means a completely different amount of currency depending on which country you're in, and no one is fully standardizing this anytime soon.) One primary motivation for the metric system was ''not only'' to ease conversions, ''but also'' to prevent more situations where industries would disagree on how much "a pound" was depending on the historical origins of that industry. All of this also means that the puzzle's answer is reversed if you word the question in terms ask "an ounce of ounces, with the Troy gold/feathers", since a troy ounce of gold being heavier.is heavier than a troy ounce of feathers.[[/labelnote]]
** Alternatively, interpret "a pound of feathers/gold" as [[spoiler:"how much feathers/gold you can buy with £1", in which case the answer would almost certainly be the feathers.
]]
** Alternatively, [[spoiler: The "Engineer's/Lawyer's answer" to the phrasing could imply "gold" variant: [[spoiler:If the two don't weigh the same, the initial statement is dangerously unsafe. Using a quantity ''worth single term to refer to two non-equivalent units would be a British pound''. How many failure to document critical information. Replace feathers can you buy and gold with safe structural loads, and the trick question becomes [[MatterOfLifeAndDeath grounds for a pound?]]serious criminal charges]].]]



** Another variation is "which is lighter, a pound of white feathers or a pound of black feathers"? [[spoiler: The white feathers are lighter in ''color''.]]
** A joke answer goes, "The feathers are heavier, because of the weight of [[InferredHolocaust what you did to those poor birds]]."

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** Another variation is "which is lighter, a pound of white feathers or a pound of black feathers"? [[spoiler: The white feathers are lighter in ''color''.]]
** A joke answer goes, "The feathers are heavier, because of the weight of [[InferredHolocaust what you did to those poor birds]]."" (Although, birds can drop feathers naturally if you're patient enough...)
** Which weighs more, a pound or an ounce? [[spoiler: An ounce ([[UnexpectedlyObscureAnswer snow leopard]]) is heavier than a pound (coin).]]



* ''Film/InsideMan'' has the bank robber ask the question of which weighs more, "all the trains that pass through Grand Central Station in a year - or the trees cut down to print all U.S. currency in circulation?" The NYPD think it's the former once they figure out the U.S. currency part, but Frazier is smart enough to recall Dalton saying it was a trick question and the answer is always [[spoiler: they both weigh the same]], before deducing both answers. [[spoiler: Neither quantity exists: U.S. currency is made of cotton; Grand Central Station is the name of the post office and the informal name of Grand Central ''Terminal''. Humorously, after answering that the police then start debating among themselves whether the question is wrong anyway, as no trains ''pass through'' Grand Central because all of its tracks terminate there, unless you include the tracks of the subway stations.]]

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* ''Film/InsideMan'' has the bank robber ask the question of which weighs more, "all the trains that pass through Grand Central Station in a year - or the trees cut down to print all U.S. currency in circulation?" The NYPD think it's the former once they figure out the U.S. currency part, but Frazier is smart enough to recall Dalton saying it was a trick question and the answer is always [[spoiler: they both weigh the same]], before deducing both answers. [[spoiler: Neither quantity exists: The answer to both is 0: U.S. currency is made of cotton; Grand Central Station is the name of the post office and the informal name of Grand Central ''Terminal''. Humorously, after answering that the police then start debating among themselves whether the question is wrong anyway, as no trains ''pass through'' Grand Central because all of its tracks terminate there, unless you include the tracks of the subway stations.]]
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* A man is condemned to be executed. He's given a choice between a [[KillItWithFire a room full of fire,]] a room [[BoomHeadshot full of expert assassins with guns,]] and [[FedToTheBeast a room full of lions who haven't eaten in three years.]] He picks the third and survives. How? [[spoiler: the lions had all starved to death after three years with no food.]]

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* A '''A man is condemned to be executed. He's given a choice between a [[KillItWithFire a room full of fire,]] a room [[BoomHeadshot full of expert assassins with guns,]] and [[FedToTheBeast a room full of lions who haven't eaten in three years.]] He picks the third and survives. How? How?''' [[spoiler: the lions had all starved to death after three years with no food.]]
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* A man is condemned to be executed. He's given a choice between a [[KillItWithFire a room full of fire,]] a room [[BoomHeadshot full of expert assassins with guns,]] and [[FedToTheBeast a room full of lions who haven't eaten in three years.]] He picks the third and survives. How? [[spoiler: the lions had all starved to death after three years with no food.]]
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Solution: [[spoiler: One, buses only have 1 driver regardless of the number of passengers. One variant is asking how many stops the bus made. Other variants include asking the age or sex of the driver. The answer is whatever your age or sex is as 'you' are driving the bus.]]

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Solution: [[spoiler: One, buses only have 1 driver regardless of the number of passengers. One variant is asking how many stops the bus made. Other variants include asking the age age, sex, or sex even eye color of the driver. The answer is whatever your age age, sex, or sex eye color is as 'you' are driving the bus.]]
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* A ''Radio/JohnFinnemoresSouvenirProgramme'' skit with the typical John Finnemore formula of a Sensible Person finding themselves in a stock storyline and deconstructing it. In this case, the final punchline is [[spoiler: they're on a ''train'' to St. Ives]].
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* '''How many legs does a dog have if you call its tail a leg? [[spoiler: Still four, as [[ExactWords calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.]]]]'''

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* '''How many legs does a dog have if you call its tail a leg? leg?''' [[spoiler: Still four, as [[ExactWords calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.]]]]'''
]]]]
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* How many legs does a dog have if you call its tail a leg? [[spoiler: Still four, as [[ExactWords calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.]]]]

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* How '''How many legs does a dog have if you call its tail a leg? [[spoiler: Still four, as [[ExactWords calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.]]]]
]]]]'''
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* How many legs does a dog have if you call its tail a leg? [[spoiler: Still four, as [[ExactWords calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.]]]]
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* One of a series of puzzles in ''VideoGame/{{Runescape}}''.

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* One The ''VideoGame/{{Runescape}}'' quest ''The Fremenik Trials'' uses this as part of a series of puzzles in ''VideoGame/{{Runescape}}''.that Peer the Seer gives to you as part of his trial.
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This only makes sense if you put the first part in past tense. Otherwise you could still be talking about a hypothetical, unbuilt wall.


* Similarly: '''If it takes 10 men 20 days to build a wall, how long will it take 20 men to build the wall''' Answer: [[spoiler: No time at all, the wall is already built. (Note that this only works if you specifically say "THE" wall as opposed to just "A" wall. This puzzle therefore doesn't translate into languages without articles.)]]

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* Similarly: '''If it takes took 10 men 20 days to build a wall, how long will it take 20 men to build the wall''' Answer: [[spoiler: No time at all, the wall is already built. (Note that this only works if you specifically say "THE" wall as opposed to just "A" wall. This puzzle therefore doesn't translate into languages without articles.)]]

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* ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'': Thankfully, the questions are for what is essentially a [[FighterMageThief Jedi placement exam]], so there are no "wrong" answers - but the lateral ones imply you're a character who prefers thinking your way out of problems, as opposed to finessing or forcing.
** Let's not forget about the riddle that you can ask the prisoner in the mysterious box to get yourself free. [[note]]Technically, you were trapped in a prison and had a riddle competition to decide who escapes. You ask the question, and the other fails. He mistakes it for a straight math problem and panics.[[/note]]

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* ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'': ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'':
**
Thankfully, the questions are for what is essentially a [[FighterMageThief Jedi placement exam]], so there are no "wrong" answers - but the lateral ones imply you're a character who prefers thinking your way out of problems, as opposed to finessing or forcing.
** Let's not forget about the The riddle that you can ask the prisoner in the mysterious box to get yourself free. [[note]]Technically, Technically, you were trapped in a prison and had a riddle competition to decide who escapes. You ask the question, and the other fails. He mistakes it for a straight math problem and panics.[[/note]]
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* Similarly: '''If it takes 10 men 20 days to build a wall, how long will it take 20 men to build the wall''' Answer: [[spoiler: No time at all, the wall is already built. (Note that this only works if you specifically say "THE" wall as opposed to just "A" wall.)]]

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* Similarly: '''If it takes 10 men 20 days to build a wall, how long will it take 20 men to build the wall''' Answer: [[spoiler: No time at all, the wall is already built. (Note that this only works if you specifically say "THE" wall as opposed to just "A" wall. This puzzle therefore doesn't translate into languages without articles.)]]
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** The puzzle depends on a pedantic (and possibly slightly archaic, outside of railroad jargon) distinction between "met" and "passed" when referring to encountering another party on a road
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* In ''VideoGame/PaperMarioTheOrigamiKing'', the Trial of Wisdom has Mario decide whether certain statements are true or false. One is "Twelve passengers are riding a bus. If five of them get off at their stops, seven people will remain on the bus." The answer is [[spoiler:false: "There must be a driver on the bus as well, so eight people will remain...not seven."]]




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* In ''VideoGame/PaperMarioTheOrigamiKing'', this is used as a true-or-false statement in the Trial of Wisdom: "One ton of iron is heavier than one ton of cotton." The answer is [[spoiler:false: "One ton equals one ton. The density of the individual materials does not matter."]]
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* ''Film/InsideMan'' has the bank robber ask the question of which weighs more, "all the trains that pass through Grand Central Station in a year - or the trees cut down to print all U.S. currency in circulation?" The NYPD think it's the former once they figure out the U.S. currency part, but Frazier is smart enough to recall Dalton saying it was a trick question and the answer is always [[spoiler: they both weigh the same]], before deducing both answers. [[spoiler: Neither quantity exists: U.S. currency is made of cotton; Grand Central Station is the name of the post office and the informal name of Grand Central ''Terminal'', and no trains pass through Grand Central because all of its tracks terminate there, unless you include the tracks of the subway stations.]]

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* ''Film/InsideMan'' has the bank robber ask the question of which weighs more, "all the trains that pass through Grand Central Station in a year - or the trees cut down to print all U.S. currency in circulation?" The NYPD think it's the former once they figure out the U.S. currency part, but Frazier is smart enough to recall Dalton saying it was a trick question and the answer is always [[spoiler: they both weigh the same]], before deducing both answers. [[spoiler: Neither quantity exists: U.S. currency is made of cotton; Grand Central Station is the name of the post office and the informal name of Grand Central ''Terminal'', and ''Terminal''. Humorously, after answering that the police then start debating among themselves whether the question is wrong anyway, as no trains pass through ''pass through'' Grand Central because all of its tracks terminate there, unless you include the tracks of the subway stations.]]
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* The {{Music/Queen}} song "[[Music/ANightAtTheOpera '39]]" presents one of these: A traveller sets out in the year of '39, travels for one year, and [[MindScrew returns in the year of '39, to find that the woman greeting him, who he at first thought was his girlfriend, is in fact his girlfriend's daughter, born and raised since he left]]. Solution: [[spoiler:He's a space traveller, whose voyage lasted one year of ship time, but 100 years of Earth time. The video on the DVD version of the album makes this clear.]]

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* The {{Music/Queen}} song "[[Music/ANightAtTheOpera '39]]" presents one of these: A traveller sets out in the year of '39, travels for one year, and [[MindScrew returns in the year of '39, to find that the woman greeting him, who he at first thought was his girlfriend, is in fact his girlfriend's daughter, born and raised since he left]]. Solution: [[spoiler:He's a space traveller, whose voyage lasted [[TimeDilation one year of ship time, but 100 years of Earth time.time]]. The video on the DVD version of the album makes this clear.]]
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This isn't a lateral thinking problem. It's a straight math problem.


* A bat and ball cost $1.10 in total. The bat costs 1 dollar more than the ball. How much does the ball cost? [[spoiler: .05 for the ball, 1.05 for the bat.]] For what ever reason most people answer "10 cents" even though that is clearly wrong.

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* A bat and ball cost $1.10 in total. The bat costs 1 dollar more than the ball. How much does the ball cost? [[spoiler: .05 for the ball, 1.05 for the bat.]] For what ever reason most people answer "10 cents" even though that is clearly wrong.
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* ''Series/LimmysShow'' has [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH0hikcwjIA a sketch]] where Limmy, in the guise of an edutainment programme narrator, asks the audience whether a kilogramme of steel is heavier than a kilogramme of feathers. [[spoiler:Limmy's the only one gets the question wrong, and he seems to have a breakdown as everyone around him tries to explain "They're both a kilogramme."]]

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* ''Series/LimmysShow'' has [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH0hikcwjIA a sketch]] where Limmy, in the guise of an edutainment programme narrator, asks the audience whether a kilogramme of steel is heavier than a kilogramme of feathers. [[spoiler:Limmy's the only one gets to get the question wrong, and he seems to have a breakdown as everyone around him tries to explain "They're both a kilogramme."]]

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* The most common form of the question is "A pound of gold or a pound of feathers"? The question is designed to play on the listener's inherent association of gold being heavier than feather. '''Standard Solution''': [[spoiler:They both weigh the same since they're both a pound.]] However, not all examples are that easy to decipher. One standard solution subversion: [[spoiler: The feathers are heavier, since precious metals like gold are measured in Troy weight, not avoirdupois pounds (one Troy pound being about 370 grams, and one avoirdupois pound being around 450 grams). The situation is inverted with ounces, with the Troy ounce of gold being heavier.]]
** Alternatively, [[spoiler: the phrasing could imply a quantity ''worth a british pound''. How many feathers can you buy for a pound?]]

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* The most common original form of the question is was "A pound of gold lead or a pound of feathers"? feathers?" The question is designed to play on the listener's inherent association of gold lead being heavier than feather. '''Standard Solution''': [[spoiler:They both weigh the same since they're both a pound.]] However, not all examples are that easy to decipher. One standard solution subversion: [[spoiler: The feathers are heavier, since precious metals like gold are measured in Troy weight, not avoirdupois pounds (one Troy pound being about 370 grams, and one avoirdupois pound being around 450 grams). The situation is inverted with ounces, with the Troy ounce of gold being heavier.]]
** The most common variant instead asks: "A pound of ''gold'' or a pound of feathers?" This version plays on the listener's inherent association of gold being heavier than feather, and also screws with people who already know the answer to the original version of the question. '''Solution''': [[spoiler: The feathers are heavier, since precious metals like gold are measured in Troy weight, not avoirdupois pounds (one Troy pound being about 370 grams, and one avoirdupois pound being around 450 grams). The answer is reversed if you word the question in terms of ounces, with the Troy ounce of gold being heavier.]]
** Alternatively, [[spoiler: the phrasing could imply a quantity ''worth a british British pound''. How many feathers can you buy for a pound?]]



** The other usual form is "A pound of lead or a pound of feathers." [[spoiler:For this one, the pounds are indeed the same unit, since lead is not a precious metal, and the single correct answer is they both weigh the same. The sucker answer is that the lead weighs more. The gold version above was invented to also trick people who knew the lead and feathers one, making "They are the same" the sucker answer.]]



* When Jerry rhetorically asks Danny this question in ''Webcomic/{{Nukees}}'', Danny points out, [[http://nukees.com/d/20120423.html after some caveats]][[note]]though he misses the "troy pound" quibble[[/note]], that a pound of lead would displace less air, and therefore weigh more.

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* When Jerry rhetorically asks Danny this question in ''Webcomic/{{Nukees}}'', Danny points out, [[http://nukees.com/d/20120423.html after some caveats]][[note]]though he misses the "troy pound" quibble[[/note]], caveats]], that a pound of lead would displace less air, and therefore weigh more.more.
* ''Series/LimmysShow'' has [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH0hikcwjIA a sketch]] where Limmy, in the guise of an edutainment programme narrator, asks the audience whether a kilogramme of steel is heavier than a kilogramme of feathers. [[spoiler:Limmy's the only one gets the question wrong, and he seems to have a breakdown as everyone around him tries to explain "They're both a kilogramme."]]
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These puzzles often may depend on semantics, cognitive theories, and cultural codes and cues such as when (or when not to) take spoken words literally. As a result, such puzzles are not effectively translated into other languages. Nor are they universally considered fair measures of IQ or intelligence in general.

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These puzzles often may depend on semantics, cognitive theories, wordplay, and cultural codes and cues such as when (or when not to) take spoken words literally. As a result, such puzzles are not effectively translated into other languages. Nor are they universally considered fair measures of IQ or intelligence in general.
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These puzzles often may depend on semantics, cognitive theories, and cultural codes and cues such as when (or when not to) take spoken words literally. As a result, such puzzles are not effectively translated into other languages.

to:

These puzzles often may depend on semantics, cognitive theories, and cultural codes and cues such as when (or when not to) take spoken words literally. As a result, such puzzles are not effectively translated into other languages.
languages. Nor are they universally considered fair measures of IQ or intelligence in general.
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* Similarly: '''If it takes 10 men 20 days to build a wall, how long will it take 20 men to build the wall''' Answer: [[spoiler: No time at all, the wall is already built. (Note that this only works if you specifically say "THE" wall as opposed to just "A" wall.)]]
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** This does not work in languages that don't have separate terms for methods of interment.

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** This does not work in languages that don't have separate terms for methods of interment. If you ever want to stop a pedant in their tracks, it doesn't work in English, either- [[YouKeepUsingThatWord "bury"'s primary definition is "to conceal" or "to protectively store away", as with a body in a tomb]]. The meaning of "to put in a hole and cover with dirt" is derived from it's use to describe an interment, rather than the other way around.
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While you could argue that's the "real" answer, the traditional answer (and the one used by the examples) is one.


Solution: [[spoiler: Zero: the speaker is going to St. Ives, but everyone else is going the other way - and the question only asks how many kits, cats, sacks, and wives are doing so (though if the speaker is a wife, then the answer is 'one'). For those interested, there is 1 man, 7 wives, 49 sacks, 343 Cats and 2401 kits, making a total of 2801 going ''away'' from St. Ives (2800, not counting the man). Some versions add "Each of the kits have 7 mitts" which would be an extra 16807 mitts for a total of 19608. Depending on the wording, this can be something of a cheat, as it's never specified what direction the others were going, if any.]]

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Solution: [[spoiler: Zero: the speaker is going to St. Ives, but One: you are, everyone else is going the other way - and the question only asks how many kits, cats, sacks, and wives are doing so (though if the speaker is a wife, then the answer is 'one').way. For those interested, there is 1 man, 7 wives, 49 sacks, 343 Cats and 2401 kits, making a total of 2801 going ''away'' from St. Ives (2800, not counting the man). Some versions add "Each of the kits have 7 mitts" which would be an extra 16807 mitts for a total of 19608. Depending on the wording, this can be something of a cheat, as it's never specified what direction the others were going, if any.]]
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* A bat and ball cost $1.10 in total. The bat costs 1 dollar more than the ball. How much does the ball cost [[spoiler: .05 for the ball, 1.05 for the bat]] For what ever reason most people answer "10 cents" even though that is clearly wrong.

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* A bat and ball cost $1.10 in total. The bat costs 1 dollar more than the ball. How much does the ball cost cost? [[spoiler: .05 for the ball, 1.05 for the bat]] bat.]] For what ever reason most people answer "10 cents" even though that is clearly wrong.
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** Hangry, a 21st century portmanteau of Hungry and Angry, renders this particular unsolvable puzzle defeated.
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** This question (without the bear - just asking where you started) used to be a part of interviews at ''UsefulNotes/SpaceX''. Most engineers could figure out the [[spoiler:North Pole]] answer easily, but there are actually infinitely many answers. [[spoiler: You could start somewhere near the South pole such that going south would lead you to the latitude where going a mile east takes you around the South pole, then you go north back to where you started. Since you could also get around the pole twice if you started closer to it (or three times, etc.), there are infinitely many solutions.]]

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** This question (without the bear - just asking where you started) used to be a part of interviews at ''UsefulNotes/SpaceX''.''[=SpaceX=]''. Most engineers could figure out the [[spoiler:North Pole]] answer easily, but there are actually infinitely many answers. [[spoiler: You could start somewhere near the South pole such that going south would lead you to the latitude where going a mile east takes you around the South pole, then you go north back to where you started. Since you could also get around the pole twice if you started closer to it (or three times, etc.), there are infinitely many solutions.]]
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** Yet another variation has the police responding to a tip from someone claiming to have witnessed a crime. All they know is the perpetrator's whereabouts and that his name is John Smith. They arrive at an apartment and find a plumber, an electrician, a mechanic and a roofer playing poker. None of them are wearing name tags or bearing any evidence of having committed a crime. Without communicating with each other, the police immediately arrest the mechanic. This blue collar variation is pretty effective, as women in these roles are less common than female doctors.
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* ''KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'': Thankfully, the questions are for what is essentially a [[FighterMageThief Jedi placement exam]], so there are no "wrong" answers - but the lateral ones imply you're a character who prefers thinking your way out of problems, as opposed to finessing or forcing.

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* ''KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'': ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'': Thankfully, the questions are for what is essentially a [[FighterMageThief Jedi placement exam]], so there are no "wrong" answers - but the lateral ones imply you're a character who prefers thinking your way out of problems, as opposed to finessing or forcing.
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** Also, in logic, a conditional statement (if..., then...) is always considered true if the first part is false. So if we take it that roosters cannot lay eggs, any answer for which way it rolls (indeed, any answer in general) is true.

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