History Main / RootingForTheEmpire

* [[Bleach]]. The way Soul Society is, some people actually root for [[spoiler: Aizen]] and the Arrancar rather than an afterlife full of burocrautic Soul Reapers. The main causes of this are [[KillItWithFire Gen]][[AchillesInHisTent ryusai]] [[BotheringByTheBook Shige]][[KnightTemplar kuni]] [[LawfulStupid Yama]][[KarmicBackfire moto]], [MadScientist Mayuri]] [[CompleteMonster Kuro]][[Karma Houdinitsuchi]] and [[Jerkass Bya]][[KnightTemplar kuya]] [[LawfulStupid Kuchiki]], plus the fact on how Soul Society view humans, Hollows(Even Non-Combative Ones) and Arrancar(Even when they come to help). If not fo the fact [[spoiler: Aizen]] is a Complete Monster, he would be the hero. And Soul Society isn't the most organized and just of societies.

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*** And to rub salt in the wound, having been portrayed as a credible opposing political and military bloc to the Empire in the first season, the E.U. is summarily and utterly defeated off-screen by Schneizel with half their territory seized while implying stopping at 50% was a mercy on the Prime Minister's behalf and never mentioned again.

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* The Marvel event ''WorldWarHulk'' had most readers rooting for the Hulk, mainly because of all the crap the Illuminati put him through. It even happened in the story with many bystanders siding with The Hulk.

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* ''{{Godzilla}}'' in the film ''GMK'' was made into a demonic, malevolent force fighting against the "good monsters" Baragon, Mothra, and King Ghidorah. Guess who the fans were cheering for the most. Perhaps justified in that this was the first and only instance of a genuinely evil Godzilla, and he hadn't exactly done anything other, more neutral incarnations hadn't.

* Speaking of "Avatar", the live-action AdaptationDecay of AvatarTheLastAirbender, titled ''Film/TheLastAirbender''', has many rooting for the Fire Nation, since it's populated by practically the only good actor(s) in the movie!

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** The Technocracy's sourcebook would have been more effective in this respect if it spent any time morally questioning the Traditions' beliefs and activities. Instead, it essentially dismissed the Traditions as pathetically backwards, then spent half the book portraying Technocratic field agents (i.e., player-character Technocrats) as noble-minded crusaders for order and progress, manipulated into working for a remote, corrupt and out-of-touch body of ancient masters.

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** Tom seems to get the most of it, which is understandable because he's taking abuse from both the mouse who is breaking into his home and often his owners for failing to catch the trespassing mouse.

** "Bad guys" or not, it was tough to see a bunch of frequently bullied teenagers constantly being dumoed on by the universe.

* Magneto is prone to this also, given his genuine concern for the future of mutanity and his experiences in Aushwitz; when written well, you almost want the X-Men to lose, if only just this once. Except in the UltimateUniverse. It doesn't take long [[CompleteMonster to wish for the bastard's head on a pike]].

* Looking at the ''StarWarsExpandedUniverse'', despite the various books that portray the Empire as fundamentally evil, there are also books that show that not ''all'' of its members are pure evil.\\
TimothyZahn is the most notable of the authors who do this; [[TheThrawnTrilogy Grand Admiral Thrawn]], while he is decidedly ''[[MagnificentBastard not a good person]]'', is still portrayed as somewhat better than his predecessors (which is not that great an accomplishment), and there are fans who think the galaxy might have been better off with him alive.\\
In the ''HandOfThrawn'' duology, the Supreme Commander was reluctantly seeking peace with the New Republic, and by that point Pellaeon really couldn't be called one of the bad guys.

* Looking at the ''StarWarsExpandedUniverse'', despite the various books that portray the Empire as fundamentally evil, there are also books that show it as something that can be admired. TimothyZahn is the most notable of the authors who do this; [[GrowingTheBeard the first serious novels]] in the ExpandedUniverse were his ''[[TheThrawnTrilogy Thrawn Trilogy]]'', with a Grand Admiral who was ALighterShadeOfGray (and a MagnificentBastard to boot). In the ''HandOfThrawn'' duology, the Supreme Commander was reluctantly seeking peace with the New Republic, and by that point Pellaeon really couldn't be called one of the bad guys. And ''[[OutboundFlight Survivor's Quest]]'' introduced the Empire of the Hand, seen by a slightly nostalgic Mara Jade as having all of the best elements of the Empire - uniformly trained soldiers, order, respect, style - and none of its worst flaws, like overwhelming [[FantasticRacism xenophobia]].
** That is if you ignore the fact that Thrawn still intended to TakeOverTheWorld apparently because he liked being in power, and for the sake of this he, among various unpleasantries, made a DealWithTheDevil, that would have allowed a completely insane fallen Jedi to mind-control huge parts of his army, if not for the heroes, who brought their downfall first. Not being a CardCarryingVillain and/or CompleteMonster and/or SmugSnake doesn't yet mean that you are anywhere near morally sound, but just try telling this to the Empire fans, who latched on to Thrawn as the only imperial warlord who wasn't' some or all of the above (at the time when the leaders of the Imperial Remnant didn't yet resign themselves to being one of the many regional governments, of course).
*** Thrawn's attempts at bringing the galaxy back under the control of the Empire had nothing to do with him wanting power. He was doing it to bring the Galaxy into one united front, under strong orderly leadership, so that they could stand a chance at repelling the Yuuzahn-Vong invasion he knew was coming. He was willing to use any means necessary to accomplish this, cause he figured no matter what he did, it would be better then letting the Vong wipe all life in the galaxy ([[{{Retcon}} or at least, that became his motivation when that particular idea came up years after Thrawn's introduction)]].
** In ''GalaxyOfFear'', a kidlit horror series in the vein of ''{{Goosebumps}}'', Captain Thrawn, elsewhere in the book described as having an "evil smile", says this to the two protagonists who hate him instantly.
---> "I encounter civilians like you all the time. You believe the Empire is continually plotting to do harm. Let me tell you, your view of the Empire is far too dramatic. The Empire is a government. It keeps billions of beings fed and clothed. Day after day, year after year, on thousands of worlds people live their lives under Imperial rule without ever seeing a stormtrooper or hearing a TIE fighter scream overhead."
*** With said protagonists being from ''Alderaan'' and losing their parents because Moff Tarkin wanted to make a demonstration of his new toy ''really'' not helping Thrawn's position on the joys of imperial rule.

* ''StarWarsLegacy'' plays with this, due to its BlackAndGreyMorality. For the most part the two main {{Big Bad}}s, the Sith and TheEmpire have made major reforms. The Sith are {{Well Intentioned Extremist}}s that have abandoned many of their old ways in favor of working together as one (one even saves another's life after spending the whole issue arguing, because "We are Sith"), plus they have EvilIsSexy on their side. While TheEmpire is now a force of good in the Galaxy and most of its [[FantasticRacism anti-nonhuman ways]] are behind them. The Republic has been reduced to a handful of planets and ships whose only act in the comics have been a stealing a Sith SuperPrototype [[NiceJobBreakingItHero which the Empire had already rigged with bombs so it would look like a malfunction]] causing the Sith to blame the Mon Calamari (who aided the Republic) and declare war (and by war I mean genocide). The Jedi, while still good, are back to being a HiddenElfVillage to a point where they refused to aid the Mon Calamari. The main character, last of the Skywalkers, is a total JerkAss just looking out for himself (and abusing his powers) as a result of being sick of all the ButThouMust his family (as force ghosts) and fellow Jedi have been ramming down his throat.
** Despite the abysmal writing in general, it is clear, that the Sith ''pretend'' being {{Well Intentioned Extremist}}s in this series. Not only are they still all about ruining lives and wrecking the galaxy ForTheEvulz, goddamn ''Palpatine'' actually was more subtle in that department. The above-mentioned decision to genocide the entire Mon Calamari race, starting with the massacre of their governing body on live Holonet? Motivated by the involvement of ''one'' Mon Calamari with the Alliance. And the Empire, well, it allied with these nice people for power, forgetting that Sith are poster boys for ChronicBackstabbingDisorder, and most of it was overtaken as a result.
** The Mon Cal genocide is ''not'' indicative of general Sith attitudes in this series- [[BigBad Darth Krayt]] ordered it in the midst of a VillainousBreakdown, and even TheDragon was shocked by that level of brutality. These Sith ''do'' mean it when they say they're out for peace- it's just their definition of "peace" is about the same as our definition of "fascism".
*** The aforementioned Dragon crossed the MoralEventHorizon when he ordered the extermination of all living creatures of the planet, and the MadScientist running the Genocide was gleeful. So yes, some of these Sith are {{Complete Monster}}s

** It doesn't help that every time the comics show Doom in some other light (victorious, Sorcerer Supreme, etc.) [[{{Elseworld}} in some What If or alternate universe or alternate timeline or so on]], he's even more awesome than as a supervillain. Him ruling the world is often close to a MarySuetopia, and him being a hero often results in a noble sacrifice to save the world.
*** Doom Triumphant worlds tend to ''appear'' to be a MarySuetopia until you look closely and realise, no, they're ruled by a narcissistic madman. One recent example was a ''New Exiles'' story in which it was eventually revealed Doom had ''removed everyone's sense of humour'', so no-one would laugh at him.
* Magneto is prone to this also, given his genuine concern for the future of mutanity and his experiences in Aushwitz; when written well, you almost want the X-Men to lose, if only just this once.
** Except in the UltimateUniverse. It doesn't take long [[CompleteMonster to wish for the bastard's head on a pike]].

*** The aforementioned Dragon crossed the MoralEventHorizon when he ordered the extermination of all living creatures of the planet, and the MadScientist running the Genocide was gleeful. So yes, some of these Sith are CompleteMonsters

** "Bad guys" or not, it was tough to see a bunch of frequently bullied teenagers constantly being dumoed on by the universe, especially since foes like Storm and Wolverine should not have been attacking kids.
*** It was one thing for the X-Men to be hostile about the Brotherhood attacking them. It was quite another when they mocked Todd/Toad for hygine issues that are part of his mutation.
**** Freddie/Blob may have over-reacted, but Jean really did try to make friends with him just so the X-Men could recruit him before Mystique did.

* The Marvel events ''WorldWarHulk'' and ''SecretInvasion'' both had readers rooting for the invaders from space, largely because the events of ''[[MarvelCivilWar Civil War]]'' had made the heroes so unsympathetic.

* ''{{Godzilla}}'' in the film ''GMK'' returned to his original role as the antagonist; fighting against the "good monsters" Baragon, Mothra, and King Ghidorah. Guess who the fans were cheering for the most.

* Admit it. In ''{{Volcano}}'', the [[SoBadItsGood bad screenplay]] made you want the ''[[YouFailGeologyForever magic lava]]'' to win.

* Admit it. In ''{{Volcano}}'', the bad screenplay made you want the ''lava'' to win.

* [[NeonGegesisEvangelion NERV]] and [[ManipulativeBastard Gendou]] are like this. Their ultimate aim? To force evolve humanity so that they live in a workd where they don't feel pain. Basically, all interested parties want to be able to control this so they choose exactly how it happens.

* In a combination of this trope and ValuesDissonance, many older westerns lead to modern audiences siding with the Native Americans who serve as the [[DesignatedVillain Designated Villains]]

* Speaking of "Avatar", the live-action AdaptationDecay of AvatarTheLastAirbender, titled ''Film/TheLastAirbender''', has many rooting for the Fire Nation, since it's populated by practically the only good actors in the movie!

* Sometimes happens with the shark in ''{{Jaws}}''. Mostly due to RuleofCool.

** Their motivation is "After colonizing a DeathWorld, they evolved into something no longer fully human. Now, they consider humanity an inferior race worthy of slavery or extermination, and are going about doing just that, while conquering the more idyllic worlds that are their supposed birthright." Where's the sympathetic part, again?
*** You said it yourself : "After colonizing a DeathWorld". They were exiled into a shithole where they were supposed to die. But they survived, and they're out for revenge. [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation Some players interpret this]] as a {{Genocide Backfire}}.
** They were driven to Helghan by the ISA and the UCN and had to forcefully evolve so as not to die. The war that came after was a continuation from when the ISA first took Vekta from the Helghast, when they were still human and were involved in a {{Vandread}}-esque colonization scheme (although with resources rather than organs). The Helghast are the antagonists, yes, but the backstory shows that that's the UCN and ISA's fault in the first place.
*** This actually goes pretty well with their status as [[RecycledINSPACE Space]] [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazis]]. Germany's economy had collapsed and most of its territory had been lost after WorldWarI -- a war that, like the other participants, they didn't even really want to be part of, but were bound to by political agreements. A war to reclaim or expand on their former position was virtually inevitable. People tend to forget or ignore this because of just how nasty the Nazis were.
**** Neglecting the issue of whether the German Empire wanted WWI (which has been debated to death over in ImperialGermany ), the fact is that by any count, the Helghast were the ones who opened the war against the ISA both times certainly makes this far less clear.
*** It does help the Helghast in that comparison that Visari doesn't cross the MoralEventHorizon that Hitler does, despite the former being an {{expy}} of the latter.
**** Unless one has listened to some of the man's propaganda broadcasts and some of the other data you can scrounge up. The main issue is that he doesn't cross the MoralEventHorizon onscreen (if we ignore the copious brutality of the occupation of Vekta and the political terror back home on Helghan). That he seem[[spoiler:ed]] to be more competent and brave and less completely delusional than the original probably helps as well.
*** The ISA top military Brass is also full of traitorous scum. So nobody likes the ISA much and has even more people rooting for the empire.
**** Hardly. The Helghast used a total of TWO major moles in the ISA, and both of them were accounted for in-game. The rest of the ISA appears to be more loyal and competent (case in point: Pyrrhus).
***** The damage was already done, if it wasn't for the second mole, the Helghast would not have a decent nuclear arsenal.
** Although the Helghast's war against the ISA is justified, it doesn't particularly make them less evil. It doesn't change the fact that they're awesome, though.
*** Um, how the hell is a massive military strike on another nation that is at peace and by all accounts IS DOING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AGAINST THE HELGHAST for the SPECIFIC purpose of zealous ethnic cleansing "justified?"
**** Because the Helghasts wanted revenge. Vekta and Earth crushed them already once after they manifested themselves. To put it in one sentence : "Yup, we have cool planets, but you, you keep your hellhole and don't even think about something else or you're all dead." The Higs were logically [[UnderStatement slightly]] pissed about this and [[spoiler: their defeat on Vekta]] reinforced even more their faith in Visari. When some guys send you on the worst planet in the universe and hope you'll die there while keeping the good places for themselves, beat you to a pulp when you let them know that you are not happy about it AND tries to invade your homeland [[MyCountryRightOrWrong that you love despite the suckiness]] [[spoiler: and kills your leader, the man who gave pride, honor and hope to ''the whole planet'']], [[KickTheDog kicking the dog]] IS justified. And honestly, who could say "No sir." to people like [[TheEmperor Visari]] or [[ColonelBadass Radec]]?

** The [[GreyAndGrayMorality first season]] of {{Gundam00}} also counts. It doesn't help that the [[VillainProtagonist main characters]] are self-admitted [[WellIntentionedExtremist terrorists]] with [[{{Hypocrite}} hypocritical]] intentions (Killing to end killings? Sounds awfully familiar to "[[WorldWarI WarToEndAllWars]]") whose greatest advantage are [[strike:[[BattlefieldSeries p* ssy-ass heartbeat monitors]]]] [[BiggerStick uberly superior Gundams]], while most of their enemies are - a [[PsychoForHire certain psycho mercenary aside]] - sympathetic soldiers [[MyCountryRightOrWrong fighting to protect their countries]] as best as they can even with vastly inferior mechs, sometimes [[VillainousValor almost succeeding through careful planning]], as [[TheStrategist Sergei and Kati]] demonstrates. [[GreyAndBlackMorality Season II]], on the other hand, has very few people cheering for the Innovators.

** In a world populated by guys like the Joker, Bane, Firebug... lets just say he didn't think broadly enough.

**** Because the Helghasts wanted revenge. Vekta and Earth crushed them already once after they manifested themselves. To put it in one sentence : "Yup, we have cool planets, but you, you keep your hellhole and don't even think about something else or you're all dead." The Higs were logically [[UnderStatement slightly]] pissed about this and [[spoiler: their defeat on Vekta]] reinforced even more their faith in Visari. When some guys send you on the worst planet in the universe and hope you'll die there while keeping the good places for themselves, beat you to a pulp when you let them know that you are not happy about it AND tries to invade your homeland [[MyCountryRightOrWrong that you love despite the suckiness]] [[spoiler: and kills your leader, the man who gave pride, honor and hope to ''the whole planet'']], [[KickTheDog kicking the dog]] IS justified.

*** Whose race is also TooDumbToLive and lunched there second massive invasion of the galexy The the lulz no less (the frist one was destoryed, by Zim)