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Tried to reconcile a Elder Scrolls example that had a Justifying Edit. In particular, I threw out the part about magic forcing less rigid formations, because that's speculative and seems to contradict lore


* In ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' series, this is a major case of GameplayAndStorySegregation. In-game, no attention is paid at all to formation. [=NPCs=] will run straight at the nearest enemy with no real regard for tactics. However, tactics and formations are frequently mentioned in-universe. For example, these are one of the greatest strengths of the [[BadassArmy Imperial Legion]]. While individually, Imperial soldiers are not on the level of the [[ProudWarriorRace warriors of other races]] like the [[HornyVikings Nords]] and [[MasterSwordsman Redguards]], their use of formations like the shield wall and a focus on collective martial prowess have allowed them to forge three empires which have spanned most or all of Tamriel at different points in history.
** Somewhat justified, in that confrontations the player finds themselves in are, at most, them and an AI buddy versus a few enemies. And that the existence of a wide variety of magic would likely force armies to rely on less rigid and basic formations, much like modern firearms did in Real Life. Though none of this explains why those low man skirmishes consistent entirely of the two sides flailing at each other with no regard for cover or flanking or the like.

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* In ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' series, this is a major case of GameplayAndStorySegregation. In-game, no attention is paid at all to formation. [=NPCs=] will run straight at the nearest enemy with no real regard for tactics.cover, flanking, or other tactics and rarely form even loose formations. However, tactics and formations are frequently mentioned in-universe. For example, these are one of the greatest strengths of the [[BadassArmy Imperial Legion]]. While individually, Imperial soldiers are not on the level of the [[ProudWarriorRace warriors of other races]] like the [[HornyVikings Nords]] and [[MasterSwordsman Redguards]], their use of formations like the shield wall and a focus on collective martial prowess have allowed them to forge three empires which have spanned most or all of Tamriel at different points in history.
** Somewhat justified, in that confrontations the player finds themselves in are, at most, them and an AI buddy versus a few enemies. And that the existence of a wide variety of magic would likely force armies to rely on less rigid and basic formations, much like modern firearms did in Real Life. Though none of this explains why those low man skirmishes consistent entirely of the two sides flailing at each other with no regard for cover or flanking or the like.
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** Possibly the best example of how important formations were comes from one of Rome's most humiliating defeats, when a Roman army found itself ambushed by the Samnites while crossing the mountain pass of the Caudine Forks, and their reaction to it: at the time the Romans fought in large phalanxes but they couldn't form it in the restricted space, while the Samnites used smaller maniples... And the Romans flat-out ''[[KnowWhenToFoldEm surrendered without a fight]]'', as it was obvious to everyone who would win. The Romans then went and reorganized their army in maniples, more manouverable and easier to use in the hilly terrain of Samnium so they could always fight in a formation, and when needed easily formed in an unbroken phalanx.
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* In ''Film/RobinHood2010'', you see a line of defenders form a spear wall behind their gate. when the enemy horses drive through...they're gone. in other battles, you see French soldiers make a few thin lines, but they dissolve before the enemy is within striking distance at no provocation. So, there were formations, but they never got used.

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* In ''Film/RobinHood2010'', you see a line of defenders form a spear wall behind their gate. when the enemy horses drive through...they're gone. in In other battles, you see French soldiers make a few thin lines, but they dissolve before the enemy is within striking distance at no provocation. So, there were formations, but they never got used.
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* Averted in ''VideoGame/ConquerorsBlade'', where every unit has both a scattered and condensed formation. Mastering combat ''requires'' you to master these formations and their specifics - condensed formations are better for combat while scattered ones are better for movement and avoiding artillery strikes. Some units have a third formation that has unique benefits - men-at-arms, for example, can form a shield wall that will virtually nullify arrows, but good luck if the enemy deploys a trebuchet on your troops.
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* In ''Film/ThreeHundred'', the Spartans alternate between fighting in formation and fighting out of formation; notably, while fighting the first Persian waves they fight in a tight phalanx formation, and break once they've killed the majority of the Persian troops to charge into them. Later when the Persian cavalry arrives, the Spartans adopt a tight arrow-shaped formation. The Spartans have some trouble fighting the Immortals later on until they manage to form up into a phalanx when the Arcadians distract the Immortals, and they also use a shieldwall when fighting the Persian elephants. The only times the Spartans are shown taking losses are when they fight outside of formation, such as initially against the Immortals, when the grenadiers attack, and when a few Spartans range out ahead of the rest of the formation and get hit by cavalry. And, of course, its possible that they never actually broke ranks at all, and it was just a tactic by the UnreliableNarrator to make the deaths look more heroic.

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* In ''Film/ThreeHundred'', the Spartans alternate between fighting in formation and fighting out of formation; notably, while fighting the first Persian waves they fight in a tight phalanx formation, and break once they've killed the majority of the Persian troops to charge into them. Later when the Persian cavalry arrives, the Spartans adopt a tight arrow-shaped formation. The Spartans have some trouble fighting the Immortals later on until they manage to form up into a phalanx when the Arcadians distract the Immortals, and they also use a shieldwall when fighting the Persian elephants. The only times the Spartans are shown taking losses are when they fight outside of formation, such as initially against the Immortals, when the grenadiers attack, and when a few Spartans range out ahead of the rest of the formation and get hit by cavalry. And, of course, its possible that they never actually broke ranks at all, and it was just a tactic by the UnreliableNarrator to make the deaths look more heroic. In actual history, the Spartans aren't documented as having used any formation outside of the standard hoplite phalanx, and would likely have been incapable of the kind of fluidly-shifting formations the film portrays. Spartan morale and physical fitness was high, but their ability to maneuver on the battlefield in any fashion more complex than "move forward" seems to have been very poor, which was typical for Greek hoplites of that era.
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** The Battle of the Bastards pits Jon Snow's army of mostly [[BarbarianTribe Wildlings]] against Ramsay Bolton's [[SoldierVersusWarrior professional infantry]]. The Wildlings do a cinematic full-frontal charge and smash into the Bolton shieldwall. They actually do some damage, but the Boltons rally and encircle them, then start to systematically massacre them: stab, step forwards, stab, step forwards, etc. Jon was pretty much doomed until the Knights of the Vale rode in and attacked the Boltons from behind.

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** The Battle of the Bastards pits Jon Snow's army of mostly [[BarbarianTribe Wildlings]] against Ramsay Bolton's [[SoldierVersusWarrior professional infantry]]. The Wildlings do a cinematic full-frontal charge and smash into the Bolton shieldwall. They actually do some damage, but the Boltons rally and encircle them, The Bolton formation bends, then start rallies, encircles and starts to systematically massacre them: stab, step forwards, stab, step forwards, etc. Jon was pretty much doomed until the Knights of the Vale rode in and attacked the Boltons from behind.
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The section on the Roman Army works better as a separate bullet than a sub section, as it's unrelated to shot and pike.


** One of the strengths of [[UsefulNotes/TheGloryThatWasRome the Roman Army]] was their uncanny ability to break enemy formations while keeping theirs. The best examples are the use of the ''pilum'' (a shield-piercing javelin that bends after impact to prevent the enemy from taking it out of the shield during the battle, Roman soldiers carried two) and their tactic against a phalanx: the ''pila'' were thrown seconds before meeting the enemy infantry, suddenly disorganizing their formation due the rain of javelins that pierce shields and either unbalance them or kill the wielder and not giving them time to get back in formation before melee starts, and their tactic against the phalanx was to deploy part of the troops in their own shield wall to pin the phalanx down and have the rest (cavalry if the enemy didn't have it to guard their flanks, infantry if they had) flank the enemy and start chopping until they broke formation.

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** * One of the strengths of [[UsefulNotes/TheGloryThatWasRome the Roman Army]] was their uncanny ability to break enemy formations while keeping theirs. The best examples are the use of the ''pilum'' (a shield-piercing javelin that bends after impact to prevent the enemy from taking it out of the shield during the battle, Roman soldiers carried two) and their tactic against a phalanx: the ''pila'' were thrown seconds before meeting the enemy infantry, suddenly disorganizing their formation due the rain of javelins that pierce shields and either unbalance them or kill the wielder and not giving them time to get back in formation before melee starts, and their tactic against the phalanx was to deploy part of the troops in their own shield wall to pin the phalanx down and have the rest (cavalry if the enemy didn't have it to guard their flanks, infantry if they had) flank the enemy and start chopping until they broke formation.
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** The Battle of the Bastards pits Jon Snow's army of mostly [[BarbarianTribe Wildlings]] [[SoldierVersusWarrior against]] Ramsay Bolton's professional infantry. The Wildlings do a cinematic full-frontal charge and smash into the Bolton shieldwall. They actually do some damage, but the Boltons rally and encircle them, then start to systematically massacre them: stab, step forwards, stab, step forwards, etc. Jon was pretty much doomed until the Knights of the Vale rode in and attacked the Boltons from behind.

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** The Battle of the Bastards pits Jon Snow's army of mostly [[BarbarianTribe Wildlings]] against Ramsay Bolton's [[SoldierVersusWarrior against]] Ramsay Bolton's professional infantry.infantry]]. The Wildlings do a cinematic full-frontal charge and smash into the Bolton shieldwall. They actually do some damage, but the Boltons rally and encircle them, then start to systematically massacre them: stab, step forwards, stab, step forwards, etc. Jon was pretty much doomed until the Knights of the Vale rode in and attacked the Boltons from behind.
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* ''Series/GameOfThrone'':

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* ''Series/GameOfThrone'': ''Series/GameOfThrones'':
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* ''Series/GameOfThrone'':
** Much is made of the Unsullied's discipline and ability to maintain formation no matter what, and how this has lead them to achieve victory over much more powerful forces.
** The Battle of the Bastards pits Jon Snow's army of mostly [[BarbarianTribe Wildlings]] [[SoldierVersusWarrior against]] Ramsay Bolton's professional infantry. The Wildlings do a cinematic full-frontal charge and smash into the Bolton shieldwall. They actually do some damage, but the Boltons rally and encircle them, then start to systematically massacre them: stab, step forwards, stab, step forwards, etc. Jon was pretty much doomed until the Knights of the Vale rode in and attacked the Boltons from behind.
** When the Dothraki attack the rearguard of the Lannister forces, Jaime hurriedly tries to form them into a shieldwall, but the Dothraki are too fast and smash into them while they are still forming up. This sends the infantrymen scattering, allowing the Dothraki to ride them down.
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* Zig-zagged in ''Literature/TheMachineriesOfEmpire'', in which formations remain key to warfare even though fighting is done with guns and spaceships... because the GeometricMagic of the setting means that arranging your troops/ships in various patterns allows them to deploy esoteric weapons or defenses, rather than any of the conventional types, benefits, or weaknesses of formations.

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* Zig-zagged in ''Literature/TheMachineriesOfEmpire'', in which massed formations remain key to warfare even though fighting is done with guns and spaceships... because the GeometricMagic of the setting means that arranging your troops/ships in various patterns allows them to deploy esoteric weapons or defenses, rather than any of the conventional types, benefits, types or weaknesses benefits of formations.
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* Zig-zagged in ''Literature/TheMachineriesOfEmpire'', in which formations remain key to warfare even though fighting is done with guns and spaceships... because the GeometricMagic of the setting means that arranging your troops/ships in various patterns allows them to deploy esoteric weapons or defenses, rather than any of the conventional types, benefits, or weaknesses of formations.
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** The majority of units fight in formation, hence why the models come with square bases, so they can more easily fit together. This gives units a bonus when resolving a round of close combat, based on just how many rows of lads are backing up the guys in the front rank. Generals thus have to decide whether it's more important to have a wide, shallow formation that can do a lot of fighting at once but is more likely to break against opposition, or a denser block that can't engage as many foes at once but can last longer in a protracted fight. This also makes maneuvering a big part of the game, since one formation of troops can't just casually march through another, even if they're friendlies.

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** Gigantically averted in Warhammer Fantasy as a whole. The majority of units fight in formation, hence why the models come with square bases, so they can more easily fit together. This gives units a bonus when resolving a round of close combat, based on just how many rows of lads are backing up the guys in the front rank. Generals thus have to decide whether it's more important to have a wide, shallow formation that can do a lot of fighting at once but is more likely to break against opposition, or a denser block that can't engage as many foes at once but can last longer in a protracted fight. This also makes maneuvering a big part of the game, since one formation of troops can't just casually march through another, even if they're friendlies.
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Greenlink.


** The Empire also has special rules reflecting their mastery of a variation of the ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tercio tercio]]'' formation that characterized continental European warfare throughout the 16th century. The Detachment rules mean that a main unit of Empire soldiers, typically [[BladeOnAStick spearmen or halberdiers]], can be supported by smaller units ranging from musketmen to archers to swordsmen. If a ranged supporting unit is charged by the enemy, the shooters can flee and lead the foe into the waiting weapons of their "parent" unit, or if the parent unit is charged, ranged units can hit the enemy with missile fire at point-blank range. Supporting close combat units, meanwhile, can either counter-charge or launch a supporting charge, attacking the flanks of whatever enemy their parent unit is fighting.

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** The Empire also has special rules reflecting their mastery of a variation of the ''[[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tercio tercio]]'' formation that characterized continental European warfare throughout the 16th century. The Detachment rules mean that a main unit of Empire soldiers, typically [[BladeOnAStick spearmen or halberdiers]], halberdiers, can be supported by smaller units ranging from musketmen to archers to swordsmen. If a ranged supporting unit is charged by the enemy, the shooters can flee and lead the foe into the waiting weapons of their "parent" unit, or if the parent unit is charged, ranged units can hit the enemy with missile fire at point-blank range. Supporting close combat units, meanwhile, can either counter-charge or launch a supporting charge, attacking the flanks of whatever enemy their parent unit is fighting.

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* ''ComicBook/AlixSenator'': When outnumbered by Spartan rebels, Alix's Roman soldiers are able to use their superior formation and tactics to outmaneuver the attackers before routing them.



* Averted in ''VideoGame/{{Pharaoh}}'', where military units have two formations: A shoulder-to-shoulder line that makes them more resistant to melee (but arrows do more damage), or a spread-out formation that takes less damage from arrows but more from melee.

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* Averted in ''VideoGame/{{Pharaoh}}'', where military units have two formations: A shoulder-to-shoulder line that makes them more resistant to melee (but arrows do more damage), or a spread-out formation that takes less damage from arrows but more from melee. The remake removed this in favor of a simpler approach where number of soldiers, equipment and towers in the city are added up to a number, and the bigger number wins.



** The second game adds specific formations for land (phalanx, staggered or double lines, and wedge) and sea units (lines are used for broadsides, crescents to gang up on an enemy). The expansion gives the Zulu civ an exclusive "Horns of the Impi" formation, essentially the crescent formation on land that also gives its heavy infantry a damage boost while using it. Like the first game, having too many units will cause them to split up and spread out, turning what should have been a steamroll into a piecemeal defeat (unless you centered the attack order on an invulnerable target like a resource or the edge of the map).

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** The second game adds specific formations for land (phalanx, staggered or double lines, and wedge) and sea units (lines are used for broadsides, crescents to gang up on an enemy). enemy), and like the first game, having too many units will cause them to split up and spread out, turning what should have been a steamroll into a piecemeal defeat (centering the attack order on an invulnerable target like a resource or the edge of the map, alleviates the issue somewhat as it causes the units to cluster around it).
***
The expansion gives the Zulu civ an exclusive "Horns of the Impi" formation, essentially the crescent formation on land that also gives its heavy infantry a damage boost while using it. Like the first game, having too many units will cause them to split up and spread out, turning what should have been a steamroll into a piecemeal defeat (unless you centered the attack order on an invulnerable target like a resource or the edge of the map).it.
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** The Warhammer games feature the formations still, which interacts oddly with the superhuman abilities. Individual heroes and even dragons are at a disadvantage vs formations, but because FriendlyFireproof is ''not'' in effect, non-large single units do a good job holding melee groups in place while archers and artillery fire. Being only one out of many makes it far less likely they will be hit, and even if they get clipped it will still be far less than what the enemy would do without the damage.

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** The [[VideoGame/TotalWarWarhammer Warhammer games games]] feature the formations still, which interacts oddly with the superhuman abilities. Individual heroes and even dragons are at a disadvantage vs formations, but because FriendlyFireproof is ''not'' in effect, non-large single units do a good job holding melee groups in place while archers and artillery fire. Being only one out of many makes it far less likely they will be hit, and even if they get clipped it will still be far less than what the enemy would do without the damage.
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** The Warhammer games feature the formations still which interacfs oddly with the superhuman abilities. Individual heroes and even dragons would be at a disadvantage vs formations but because FriendlyFireproof was /not/ in effect non-large single units did a good job holding melee groups in place while archers and artilley fired. Being only one out of many made it far less likely they would be hit and even if they got clipped it would still be far less than what the enemy would do without the damage.

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** The Warhammer games feature the formations still still, which interacfs interacts oddly with the superhuman abilities. Individual heroes and even dragons would be are at a disadvantage vs formations formations, but because FriendlyFireproof was /not/ is ''not'' in effect effect, non-large single units did do a good job holding melee groups in place while archers and artilley fired. artillery fire. Being only one out of many made makes it far less likely they would will be hit hit, and even if they got get clipped it would will still be far less than what the enemy would do without the damage.
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* Any people that didn't fight in a formation would learn to do so upon encountering an army who did, one way or the other. They would either copy the enemy's tactics on their own, the better to resist them, or be conquered and added to their foes army.

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* Any people that didn't fight in a formation would learn to do so upon encountering an army who did, one way or the other. They would either copy the enemy's tactics on their own, the better to resist them, or be conquered and added to their foes foe's army.
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* ''Literature/EndersGame'' takes the position that formations are obsolete and useless, their main advantage being that keeping everyone in one group makes it easier for the commander to keep track of their people and give orders while making them big fat targets. Ender's brilliance is supposedly shown by his rejecting the paradigm of four formations in favor of reorganizing his company into ten bands of skirmishers. But then, the Battle School treats combat exercises like a sporting league rather than as a way to teach what works in battle, what doesn't, and why, so misunderstandings about the purpose of formations is hardly the worst error it makes about military life.
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* Mostly averted in ''Literature/TheWarlordChronicles'', a realistic telling of the [[Myth/KingArthur Arthurian mythos]] from the point of view of a warrior who starts off as an ordinary spearman and later becomes one of Arthur's lieutenants. Fighting in a shield wall and the need to keep it tight are discussed at length, as are the consequences when formation isn't kept or a group of soldiers get cut off from the shield wall. However there are a few occasions where a maddened charge that completely breaks formation destroys the opponent's shield wall, and there are groups like the Blackshields, (a group of Irish [[TheBerserker berserkers and raiders]]) whose strategy consists entirely of charging at opponents while screaming at the top of their lungs and slaughtering anyone who stands in their way. As the Blackshields are ancient Celts, that's simply TruthInTelevision. It's also worth noting that in the first book the narrator admits afterward that he [[UnreliableNarrator spiced up the story]] because the Queen that he's telling it to expects RuleOfDrama to be in effect, and that there's no way that particular battle would have happened as he originally told it.

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* Mostly averted in ''Literature/TheWarlordChronicles'', a realistic telling of the [[Myth/KingArthur Arthurian mythos]] Myth/ArthurianLegend from the point of view of a warrior who starts off as an ordinary spearman and later becomes one of Arthur's lieutenants. Fighting in a shield wall and the need to keep it tight are discussed at length, as are the consequences when formation isn't kept or a group of soldiers get cut off from the shield wall. However there are a few occasions where a maddened charge that completely breaks formation destroys the opponent's shield wall, and there are groups like the Blackshields, (a group of Irish [[TheBerserker berserkers and raiders]]) whose strategy consists entirely of charging at opponents while screaming at the top of their lungs and slaughtering anyone who stands in their way. As the Blackshields are ancient Celts, that's simply TruthInTelevision. It's also worth noting that in the first book the narrator admits afterward that he [[UnreliableNarrator spiced up the story]] because the Queen that he's telling it to expects RuleOfDrama to be in effect, and that there's no way that particular battle would have happened as he originally told it.
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In ancient warfare, or indeed modern warfare before the advent of accurate rifles, armies generally kept in some kind of formation during pitched battles. There were exceptions where all-out charges were culturally favored over ordered shield walls, such as the Gauls of Roman times (and even then, there is evidence that they still had at least some basic sense of organization for battle purposes), but otherwise most armies of the Iron Age, like Greeks, Romans, Persians, Phoenicians, Celtiberians, Indians, Chinese, generally any spearmen on any battlefield, and any modern European army, all stayed as a block of troops and worked together in a distinct formation.

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In ancient warfare, or indeed modern warfare before the advent of accurate rifles, armies generally kept in some kind of formation during pitched battles. There were exceptions where [[OnrushingArmy all-out charges charges]] were culturally favored over ordered shield walls, such as the Gauls of Roman times (and even then, there is evidence that they still had at least some basic sense of organization for battle purposes), but otherwise most armies of the Iron Age, like Greeks, Romans, Persians, Phoenicians, Celtiberians, Indians, Chinese, generally any spearmen on any battlefield, and any modern European army, all stayed as a block of troops and worked together in a distinct formation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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In ancient warfare, or indeed modern warfare before the advent of accurate rifles, armies generally kept in some kind of formation during pitched battles. There were exceptions where all-out charges were culturally favored over shield walls, such as the Gauls of Roman times (and even then, there is evidence that they still had at least some basic sense of organization for battle purposes), but otherwise most armies of the Iron Age, like Greeks, Romans, Persians, Phoenicians, Celtiberians, generally any spearmen on any battlefield, and any modern European army, all stayed as a block of troops and worked together in a distinct formation.

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In ancient warfare, or indeed modern warfare before the advent of accurate rifles, armies generally kept in some kind of formation during pitched battles. There were exceptions where all-out charges were culturally favored over ordered shield walls, such as the Gauls of Roman times (and even then, there is evidence that they still had at least some basic sense of organization for battle purposes), but otherwise most armies of the Iron Age, like Greeks, Romans, Persians, Phoenicians, Celtiberians, Indians, Chinese, generally any spearmen on any battlefield, and any modern European army, all stayed as a block of troops and worked together in a distinct formation.

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