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*** As of the end of ''Battle for Azeroth'' and the beginning of ''Shadowlands,'' that long war seems to be finally over.
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** Think of the sequence as Xe'ra trying to force a potentially beneficial but unnecessary medical procedure upon Illidan, an action which would be a gross violation of any modern code of medical ethics.
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** Most likely a case of PowerGivesYouWings.
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[[folder:What even is the point of the Maw?]]
it seems like beings can die in the shadowlands and suffer cessation of existence, so if you deem a soul truly irredeemable why not just kill them? if the Maw was just an eternal prison i could understand it being a thing about being humane, allowing them to continue to exist and have some sort of (after)life while putting them somewhere they cant hut anyone, but if your going to torture them forever its clearly not intended as a mercy, executing them all has the added bonus of letting you drain them dry of every last drop of anima and also not wasting any resources are needless torture
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** "Keeping the War in Warcraft". Blizzard insists the two factions have to always be at each other's throats. So any time they start working together, there'll be an incident or a warmongerer to insure that the peace doesn't last. Hence why Garrosh was made a leader in Northrend and immediately became a warmonger at the same time Varian Wrynn returned and had a hate-boner for the Horde.. Or why when the Horde retreated from the Broken Shore, Sylvanas's archers calmly walked away from the cliff so it'd look like they were abandoning the Alliance rather than fleeing for their lives.
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[[folder:Achievments]]
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[[folder:What's The Point Of The Alliance And The Horde Fighting Anymore?]]
* Sargeras has been imprisoned. The planet of Azeroth is dying. And outside forces keep antagonizing both factions. So why is there still a conflict? I understand that Sylvanas perpetuated the disagreements over Azerite, but after everything they've been through, shouldn't relations between the two sides be smoothing over as they work together? I figure the prejudices won't end overnight, but what's the point of keeping things so divided and contested?
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[[folder:If The Pandaren Can Choose A Side, Why Can't Other Races?]]
* What's the in-universe reason for people to not play, for example, a Worgen too bloodthirsty and in touch with their feral side to work in the Alliance, or a Forsaken that used to be an Alliance soldier, and still wants to serve the Alliance in death, or a Blood Elf that thinks themselves as still a High Elf, or a Human that just likes what the Horde has going for it? If the real world can have people give up one faction or idealogy for another, such as Moors fighting alongside Christians against fellow Muslims, why not Azeroth?
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[[folder:Torghast and the Eye of the Jailer]]
* If Torghast is the Jailer's home base, how come he seemingly doesn't observe anything done by the Adventurers in there? After all, the Eye of the Jailer doesn't increase no matter how many layers are done by the player.
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** The same reason Jaina's teleportation spells were limited to short hops. There are a great deal of powers at play to ensure nothing can escape the Maw save through the way stone created by the Eternal Ones.
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[[folder:Mounts in the Maw]]
* I get why living mounts can't be used in what is essentially {{Hell}}. However, why does this restriction also apply to mounts that don't live, such as a mage's class mount, a tailor's flying carpets or the mounts built by an engineer? What is the in-universe explanation there?
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** "Afterlives: Bastion" answer as to why. Devos and Uther collected Arthas' soul before it could reach the Arbiter and they cast him into the Maw personally.
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** Two counters to this. First, Frostmourne and the Helm were crafted in the Maw, so there is a possibility that beings marked by these items will go straight to the Maw. Second, the Maw isn't just a prison for the most evil, it's a prison for beings who represent a threat to the Shadowlands as a whole. It's possible that the Arbiter judged both Arthas and Sylvanas as having been so twisted by Frostmourne that they could be a threat, either directly or due to their connection to the Jailer.
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** It should be noted that Banshees in WC3 couldn't possess heroes or creeps above a certain level. Presumably, there are some beings that are too powerful or strong-willed for Banshees to take control of, and this would include most of the Horde's command structure.
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** StoryAndGamePlaySegregation. Everyone can read and speak Common to some level (and presumably Orcish), which is also why quests to capture enemy plans don't have a follow up to bring said plans to a translator. It's also why races that should have never encountered either language can be understood just fine. The language barrier is just for players.
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** The Horde War Campaign in ''Battle for Azeroth'' has [[spoiler:Thomas Zelling, a human Tidesage who is mortally ill and makes a pact with the Horde to be raised into undeath in exchange for his family being kept safe.]]
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[[folder: Languages]]
* I know this topic is mentioned further up in the "Death Knight communication" folder, but I'll ask this regardless... Why isn't there a simple statement to the effect of "Everyone on Azeroth is taught to understand Common and Orcish in both written and spoken form, but both sides consider it a point of pride to never speak/write the other faction's language?" Furthermore, considering Alliance and Horde relations alternate between tenuous peace and warfare, being able to read plans captured from the enemy may be a good idea.
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* Fridge Logic: How can [=AoE=] attacks miss? I always thought it was the point of using Area-of-Effect attacks to not be able to miss at all. After all, how can mobs evade something like "Consecration", "Fan of Knives" or "Rain of Fire" without moving out of these [=AoE=]'s range/area?
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* Fridge Logic: How can [=AoE=] attacks miss? I always thought it was the point of using Area-of-Effect attacks to not be able to miss at all. After all, how can mobs evade something like "Consecration", "Fan of Knives" or "Rain of Fire" without moving out of these [=AoE=]'s range/area?range/area?
** For in-universe reasons, a lot of [=AoE=] work in a way thats "hit a large area" rather than "hit everything in the area". For example, Rain of Fire wouldn't cover every inch of the ground with fireballs so there'd be a slight chance of not getting hit despite being in the area.
** For in-universe reasons, a lot of [=AoE=] work in a way thats "hit a large area" rather than "hit everything in the area". For example, Rain of Fire wouldn't cover every inch of the ground with fireballs so there'd be a slight chance of not getting hit despite being in the area.
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** In Warcraft 3, Sylvanas had her banshees possess forces that were either too stupid to question new orders (Ogres) or wouldn't care much who they fought for (Bandits). The rest had to be possessed individually. Most likely, others would notice that certain people are acting oddly and question things more. And even Sylvanas doesn't have enough banshees to possess everyone.
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** It's worth noting that even though Arthas wasn't fully gone until he grabbed Frostmourne, he ''had'' done some pretty morally grey (if not black) decisions prior to this. He culled Stratholme before it was infested with scourge. It was pretty much a matter of time, but the townsfolk were still human when he started slaying them out. He burned the ships he and his men arrived to Northrend on because he was obsessed with revenge against Mal'ganis. ''Then'' when he found Frostmourne's location, he was warned against taking it by the entity guarding it AND Muradin, at which point, he ''willingly'' took Frostmourne despite being warned of the price AND the fact that the sword was cursed saying he would "give anything or pay any price" to save his people. The whole point of Arthas was to be a WellIntentionedExtremist. Sure, maybe he wasn't evil before taking Frostmourne, but by the time he took it, he wasn't exactly good anymore either.
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[[folder: Sylvanas, the Banshee Queen]]
* So Sylvanas doesn't really care about the Horde, that's all good and dandy... But she seems to have forgotten that she is the ''Banshee'' '''''Queen'''''. You know, Banshees, the things that can possess people and make them subservient to your will. If she's so against the Rebellion of the Horde, and she's really only causing chaos for her own purposes, wouldn't she want to turn the people she'd find the most likely to become rebel-rousers, get her most loyal Banshees to possess them, and make them subservient to her even when the truth is revealed? That plan would seem like the best option for her in general, and she has done this before (specifically in [=WarCraft=] III).
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[[folder: Arthas in the Maw]]
* This is kind of a philosophical question with no one right answer but I want to ask anyway: assuming the place where Sylvanas saw Arthas in ''Edge Of Night'' was really The Maw (which seems likely) isn't it kind of unfair he was sent there considering he was turned evil against his will? ([[ArtifactOfDoom Frostmourne]] stole his soul and forcibly turned him evil). The same applies to a lesser degree to Sylvanas as well (she was basically [[BeingTorturedMakesYouEvil turned evil by all the horrific things she's been through]]). This has bothered me ever since I first read Edge Of Night
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** WordOfGod stated specifically the idea for world PVP objectives is exactly that, to "persuade" [[PlayerVersusEnvironment PVE]]rs to PvP by baiting them with [[PlayerVersusEnvironment PVE]] content.
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** WordOfGod stated specifically the idea for world PVP objectives is exactly that, to "persuade" [[PlayerVersusEnvironment PVE]]rs to PvP [=PvP=] by baiting them with [[PlayerVersusEnvironment PVE]] content.
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** Admittedly the first edition had a lot of issues. Also had quite a few good ideas, such as Jaina's half elf half sister that Blizzard decided to retcon out, and a lot of the magic items and technological devices were really cool. The second edition is generally an improvement on just about every front, though. But really, the rpg and [=WoW=] have two different focuses; the rpg is there to give players the tools to tell a story. [=WoW=] is there for people to collect loot. That's not a jab; a lot of people like raiding and pvp and couldn't care less about the story. That's there prerogative and they're the market blizzard is selling to.
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** Admittedly the first edition had a lot of issues. Also had quite a few good ideas, such as Jaina's half elf half sister that Blizzard decided to retcon out, and a lot of the magic items and technological devices were really cool. The second edition is generally an improvement on just about every front, though. But really, the rpg and [=WoW=] have two different focuses; the rpg is there to give players the tools to tell a story. [=WoW=] is there for people to collect loot. That's not a jab; a lot of people like raiding and pvp [=PvP=] and couldn't care less about the story. That's there prerogative and they're the market blizzard is selling to.
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** Taran Zhu wasn't making a universal statement on the nature of Horde-Alliance relations; he's commenting on what he's seen and learned since they landed on the shores of Pandaria. He can't know about the times the Alliance didn't retaliate for a Horde assault that happened before he encountered any of them, and even if he did, it doesn't invalidate his message. As for why you still engage in PvP after the Fall of Shan Bu, although his speech was enough to defuse this one tense situation on the steps of the Throne of Thunder, it can't turn years of hostilities into peace overnight. It doesn't change the fact that the Kirin Tor are still keeping loads of innocent Blood Elves in its dungeon or that Garrosh abused Dalaran's neutrality to infiltrate Darnassus and steal the Divine Bell. Relations between the Horde and Alliance are still very cold, and spying and sabotage of the other faction's war effort will still happen.
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** Taran Zhu wasn't making a universal statement on the nature of Horde-Alliance relations; he's commenting on what he's seen and learned since they landed on the shores of Pandaria. He can't know about the times the Alliance didn't retaliate for a Horde assault that happened before he encountered any of them, and even if he did, it doesn't invalidate his message. As for why you still engage in PvP [[PlayerVersusPlayer PvP]] after the Fall of Shan Bu, although his speech was enough to defuse this one tense situation on the steps of the Throne of Thunder, it can't turn years of hostilities into peace overnight. It doesn't change the fact that the Kirin Tor are still keeping loads of innocent Blood Elves in its dungeon or that Garrosh abused Dalaran's neutrality to infiltrate Darnassus and steal the Divine Bell. Relations between the Horde and Alliance are still very cold, and spying and sabotage of the other faction's war effort will still happen.
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*** The fact that class/order halls are in ''Legion'' is Blizzard's way of acknowledging that the faction conflict in ''Legion'' indeed doesn't make any sense. But, pvp must still exist somehow...
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*** The fact that class/order halls are in ''Legion'' is Blizzard's way of acknowledging that the faction conflict in ''Legion'' indeed doesn't make any sense. But, pvp [=PvP=] must still exist somehow...
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** The Lich King was never as powerful after the events of ''The Frozen Throne'' as he had been before. Remember, Arthas was losing power at the same rate that Ner'zhul was until the very end of the game, and when Arthas destroyed the Frozen Throne, a lot more of the Lich King's power was lost as heat (which is why the lake surrounding Icecrown was so much larger in the final cinematic than it had been in the final scenario of ''The Frozen Throne''). The merge between Arthas and Ner'zhul only restored a small fraction of the power the Lich King had lost throughout ''Warcraft III'': not nearly enough for the Lich King to regain control of the Forsaken.
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[[folder: what color was the black Dragonflight at first?]]
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[[folder: what What color was the black Black Dragonflight at first?]]
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** They've always been black.
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[[folder: what color was the black Dragonflight at first?]]
* They are associated with Earth so maybe brown? Or maybe they were always black and just happened to be the color which turned evil?
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** Presumably just so Sylvanas has a reason to suspect the player character of treason.
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** And as for Zul, after what he tried to pull off in Zul'Gurub, Zul'Aman and ''especially'' the Isle of Thunder, it would be incredibly stupid of the Alliance ''not'' to capture and lock him up if they got the chance. Hell, even Rokhan admits that freeing Zul is a horrible idea once he sees him.
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** Talanji was actually already on her way to speak with the Horde when the Alliance captured her. Also, there's a lot of bad blood between the Zandalari and the Alliance already. From the Alliance's perspective, the Zandalari have spent the last few years launching invasions around the world, so they may have just assumed they were too violent to be reasoned with. Trying to force Rastakhan to stay out of the conflict by holding his daughter hostage may have seemed like a safer bet.
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[[folder: Imprisoning Talanji and Zul]]
* Why exactly where Talanji and Zul imprisoned in the Stormwind Stockades? The Zandalari weren't allies of the Horde yet, so why not try to ally with them instead? Not only would the Horde lack the navy to counter the Alliance, but they'd be low on soldiers as well.
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