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A small note - Headscratchers is not a place to ask for tips or complain about quests that have been removed, or mention bugs. You are here because there's something unusually crazy about a race or a class or some history or the story-line.

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    Malygos in the Nexus 

  • During a quest chain leading up to one of the quests in the Nexus, you kill the mate of Malygos, the Aspect of the Blue Dragonflight.. Then, the dragon who set you on this quest burns her body in front of the Nexus, with a handful of rather small dragons to assist her in attacking Malygos. They get their asses kicked of course, and she is captured, and mind-controlled into becoming Malygos' new consort. Why in the hell did they not get Alexstrasza, the Queen of the dragons and the most powerful Aspect (and the leader of the Red Dragonflight, who were the dragons taking part in the attack), to clean his clock when he was out in the open?
    • The order in which you're intended to do the quests clarifies this. At the point that these events happen, Alexstrasza still believes that Malygos can be convinced to back down; the forces outside the Nexus are reds who've willingly gone to help the mages, possibly those who had lived among the mages in disguise before this point. The attack upon Malygos' mate is a personal thing by Keristrasza, who had been captured and tortured by her and only recently released by the player; some of her comments during the final quest itself imply that she expects and hopes for Malygos to kill her (and not to be captured, brainwashed and raped). It's not until you get to Dragonblight and reveal to Alex that Malygos is trying to use the magic he's stealing to super-empower his brood and wipe out all of the other dragons that she realises he's gone totally crazy and has to be put down.
    • IIRC Keristrasza's dialogue implies she is very much flat pissed at Saragosa for what she did and you the player have pretty much become her new best friend after freeing and helping take down the local blue dragons who are blowing up the planet. Keri seems like a bit of a hothead and her fate is meant to be one of the nastier moments in the expansions from a personal standpoint.


  • What the hell happened to the Draenei? In Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne, they were a race of warriors/seers that lived on Draenor. Fair enough. Then, you get World of Warcraft: Burning Crusade, and discover that they've been transformed into goat-men with futuristic technology... I thought it was supposed to be a fantasy game.
    • Easy:
      "Wait a moment, did you just bring a race full of space-faring goat-people to a Medieval Fantasy?"
      "Yeah, so?"
      "That's against the lore, isn't it?"
      "Screw the lore-we have 6 million players."
    • Gnomeregan, one of the earliest dungeons in the game, has machinegun-toting robot tanks. You're OK with Skynet armies in your fantasy game, but not the space goats?
    • Goblins and Gnomes use plenty of Steampunk, and Hunters can use guns. Orcs have already been established as from another planet. While I'm not entirely satisfied with Draenei being from space, their technology is so badly explained (mostly with sparkly crystals) that it's a bit ridiculous to make any significant complaints about it being 'technology'. It could just as easily be classed as Magitek.
    • They're still there: Turns out they're a form of Corrupted Draenai (Not like the Eradari Demons mind you, but corrupted none the less) who couldn't escape from Outland with their brethren. They are referred to as "Lost Ones", and a semi-Corrupted form is known as the "Broken". The Broken Draenai are the reason there are Shamans, though.
      • Word of God states that the dev team forgot the original Draenei lore from Warcraft 3 while they were writing new lore for them for Burning Crusade. At the last minute they remembered the original lore and had to quickly combine the two pieces of lore (not wanting to discard the new lore because they liked it better) for the release of the expansion.

    Scarab Wall 

  • The Scarab Wall. Okay, it's a stone barrier about seven in-game humans high, by my approximation. Why didn't the Big Creepy-Crawlies fly over it? For that matter, why didn't anyone try flying into Gilneas to discover what's actually going on there?
    • A wizard did it. It's a magic wall, so, yeah. That pretty much explains it.
    • To be more specific, there's a line in the lore, I believe, that implicitly states there's an invisible wall of force above the physical one. It probably extends into a giant dome covering the whole thing.
    • "Shiromar concentrated her energies and called upon the blessing of Elune as the barrier erected itself before their eyes, rock and stone and roots from beneath the sands emerging to create an impenetrable wall. Even the winged soldiers who attempted to fly over the barrier met with an invisible obstruction that they could not pass." so yeah, magic bubble


  • What the hell is up with Gilneas? Did Blizzard just forget about it?
    • By Word of God, yes, they did exactly that.
    • Screw Gilneas...what about Kul Tiras?
    • According to what's known about the next expansion, it seems like they've come back to explain what's been happening in Gilneas, amongst other things.
    • Even before Cataclysm was announced, Gilneas was said to have been extremely isolationist and built the Greymane Wall to shut themselves off from the world, which is why we've never been there in WoW. We've just got the explanation now that the Gilneans pretty much quarantined themselves because the population fell victim to the Worgen curse. As for Kul Tiras, Word of God says that the Cataclysm caused it to drift out a bit to sea, with some typically Blizzard cheekiness. The most popular current fan theory is that Kul Tiras will like be patched in some time during the Cataclysm expansion.

    Loken vs Thorim 

  • During The Reckoning questline in Storm Peaks we see Loken completely decimate Thorim with the incredible power that Yogg-Saron has granted him. Now this is fine and all, but why is it that Loken suddenly can't use these same powers to tear apart a group of five people in the Halls of Lightning instance?
    • According to Blizzard, Loken is the deadliest mob in the game - see the That One Boss entry. I don't know about you, but this troper has seen many, many a group wipe on him repeatedly. He's more than difficult enough not to need any insta-kill attacks. Besides, it's pretty obvious that he's tasked with capturing the other Guardians of Storm Peaks for Yogg-Saron, so he presumably has powers that are specifically designed for that purpose. And I've said this before, but Gameplay and Story Segregation comes into play here. Having a boss that instakills you no matter what is not fun. However, I will go ahead and add my own beef: why is it that NPCs suddenly get so much more pocawerful when they get captured and thrown into a raid dungeon as a boss? Thorim picks up something like fifteen million extra health in Ulduar - been working out, has he?
    • Well, assuming he's being controlled by Yogg-Saron, then chances are that at least some of Yogg-Saron's power is in some respect flowing through Thorim, so it's understandable that Thorim would get a major boost.
    • If you think Loken is tough, you haven't heard Blizzard's nickname for the new hard-mode-only raid boss. The quote (again, from a blizzard dev) goes: "Hard mode is hard. Some hard modes are harder than others. Then there's Algalon the Raid Destroyer. He feeds off of your tears."
    • As I recall, you can only face him after downing ALL the bosses on hard mode, and he himself? He doesn't have a normal mode. Then again, he's some kind of Titan sentry, who's basically there to decide " Hmm... Destroy the world and start over, ooooor not?".
    • Oh and you only have an hour to defeat him.
    • Supposedly, the "statistically deadliest boss" title has been claimed by the Black Knight (although it's unclear whether it's the one you face at the end of his quest chain or the boss of the Trial of the Champion instance). Loken seems somewhat overrated as far as difficulty goes, since it's not hard to heal through Lightning Nova, making it easy to stay close and minimize the damage from Pulsing Shockwave.
    • So you joined the game relatively recently? At the start of WOTLK when we were all gearing up, that fight was screamingly painful. The gear we have now because Blizzard drops Frosties and Triumphs like rain allows parties to kill him before the first lightning nova somtimes, and definitely before the second, and have hp to soak the pain with ease. This was definitely not the case when players were trying to gear to gain entry to Naxx.
    • Even when leveling up to 80, that fight was not especially difficult, and the main killers of my party were Ingvar, Keristraza and Ley-Guardian Eregos.
    • One theory is that enemies' strength in the World of Warcraft world is how much threat they present to the number of players typically required to defeat them, and their level shows how they compare to other enemies of their type. For example, while Edwin Van Cleef is far weaker statistically than The Damned in Icecrown Citadel, (who, alone, present hardly any threat), and nowhere near as much of a threat to Azeroth than the Lich King, he's more difficult for players who are the level required to face him. Loken's the final boss of a 5-man dungeon and more prominent in the story than the other Keepers (who are mid-bosses of a raid instance), so he's presumably ranked higher on the power and threat scale.


  • The titans in the Storm Peaks/Ulduar are cleverly disguised Norse god's names. Hodir=Odin (the H is silent), Thorim=Thor, Lokem=Loki. Why is it that they just named the last one Freya? They didn't even try to disguise that name.
    • Probably partly because each of the Norse god's names could be translated several different ways, so the god we know as Odin could be translated as anything from Odin to Wotan(!), so that's probably the argument Blizzard would use here. Yogg-Saron and C'thun are rather poorly disguised too, given that they're based on the Cthulhu Mythos' Yog-Sothoth and Cthulhu respectively.
    • I thought C'thun was based off of C'thun?
    • Actually, I'm fairly certain that Hodir is named after Hod, brother of Baldr. But anyway, I did wonder about the same thing; it doesn't really bother me, but I did wonder why they didn't bother to even try to change her name.
    • Because Freya is a very nice-sounding name?
    • Because the actual Norse goddess is called "Freyja" and is pronounced differently to how you would pronounce "Freya" in English. So yeah, her name is 'disguised' as well.


  • How is Sam Raimi going to make a movie out of this? I mean, Warcraft sure, but World of Warcraft doesn't really have a beginning, a middle, and an end.
    • Simple: he'll make a movie about something that happens during WoW, like a quest line, or something entirely new. BTW, I think I've read somewhere it would take place one year before WoW or something.
    • Well the early scripts for the movie were about an enslaved human rebelling against his evil Orc captors to become the hero of the Alliance - I can't imagine that going well with 50% of the player audience. The best thing to do would be to adapt one of the major questlines (such as the Lich King's attacks) and come up with some suitably engaging characters on both sides to follow.
    • It's for this reason that the movie should've been what it was originally planned to be: a movie adaptation of Warcraft: Orcs and Humans. It would feature Garona, Lother, Khadgar, Medhiv, and Llane as main characters. Possible main villains would be probably be Gul'Dan and Blackhand the Destroyer, as well as his nefarious sons Rend and Maim. And part of the movie would detail a bit about the rise of Orgrim Doomhammer... Why the hell did Blizzard cut that idea!?
    • Two reasons: most people discovered the Warcraft universe with WoW, so they wouldn't know about what happened 30 years before in universe; and the first Warcraft game, while not bad, was a stereotypical heroic fantasy story (good humans fighting evil orcs and an evil sorcerer), which could make people think that Warcraft is just a ripoff of another story adapted in movies a few years ago.
    • Just to point out, it has been labeled (at least by Blizzard's PR folks on the forums) as explicitly a Warcraft movie and not a World of Warcraft movie.

    Draenei lifespans 

  • How do Draenei lifespans work? Are only the original Eredar from Argus immortal with the later generations posessing a normal lifespan? Do they keep themselves in suspended animation to live so long? Or are they just naturally immortal?
    • Well, one Draenei in Bloodmyst claims to have been alive during the flight from Argus, which was millenia ago. So the Draenei (and Eredar in general) are either very long lived, or immortal.
    • True but he could've been in suspended animation, or maybe only the original eredar are immortal. Has Blizzard released any official information on their ages?
    • Blizzard has revealed that draenei are very long-lived, but that's about it. (For example, we don't know how quickly they mature.) There's one comment about having "been in suspension" in the first quest, but it's never mentioned again.

    Death Knights communication 

  • So there are both Horde and alliance Death Knights in the Death Knight Quest chain. Yeah fair enough. Makes sense. But just one small thing... how were they communicating with each other? Do they speak Scourgish or is everyone multilingual and speaks Common and Orcish? (And due to Gameplay and Story Segregation, players speaking to each other in common through Death Knights would just be annoying now wouldn't it?)
    • They are multilangual. After all, every race except the orcs and humans already speak two languages in game. The language limitation is just a gameplay thing.
    • The quest The Flesh-Bound Tome confirms that the Scourge has its own language.
    • They also forget one of the languages when they join either side, it would seem.
    • The language issue is a huge gameplay/story problem. For WoW to make sense you have to assume Horde races only speak or understand Common when it's spoken by friends or when it's very important. This is in spite of the DK-related issues, as well as the fact that the Blood Elves and Forsaken should by any measure be able to communicate with humans.
    • Originally, Forsaken could speak common, and thus communicate with humans. Which, people being people, led to much prickishness. The Pandaren suddenly forgetting how to communicate with other Pandaren that they may have seen only hours earlier, on the other hand...
      • This was fixed as of Legion. The Pandaren language is now unified and can be used cross-faction, rather than there being a Pandaren Alliance and Pandaren Horde language... which made absolutely no sense at all.
  • So with all the massive instances that are already in Blackrock Mountain, including the intended new instances like Blackrock Caverns...Will it collapse in Burning Crusade?
    • Wait for the beta and you'll see!
    • There's a discrepancy between how large an instance is on the outside and how large it is on the inside; the Scarlet Monastery in particular has four instances, but looks smaller on the outside. It could be that Blackrock Mountain is larger (and more structurally sound) than it appears in the Burning Steppes zone.


  • Setting aside the "new character models involve work" argument - however valid it may be - why is it that with ten races to choose from, we still have only 4 types of children? Tauren don't have babies? Gnomes and dwarves too? Blood elves can have kids but not night elves? And what's with all the kids having the same age - it's like they're some sort of crazy clone.
    • Can't have too many kids running around for ratings reasons, I guess.
    • In the page for the system that helps parents restrict how much time their kids spend on WoW, all the "kids" seem to be dwarves and gnomes.
    • There are tauren, nelf, belf and orc kids in the game in the Orphanage of Creepy Children. There are also some other race's kids in Shattrath, including gnome, dwarf and humans.
    • As before, try the Shattrath city orphanage. There's babies of every race, and children of most, including draenei and blood elves.
    • It seems you've been listened to. Varian's kid is now a teenager and I see a young dwarf (Other than Shorty) standing in Ironforge.
    • Strangely enough, in Leyara's flashbacks, her daughter Istaria has a blood elf child model. It doesn't make sense, especially considering that Istaria was 1,000 years old at the time of her death, and was likely an adult by then.

    Worgen models 

  • Is it me, or do the worgen models look a bit leonine?
    • Its the anime hair.
    • If it wasn't for the anime hair, they'd look more like some sort of domestic dog to me than wolves. But that's another matter.
    • Since these new Worgen are humans turning into beast-men and playable, they have a more "noble savage" look to them than the evil Worgen.


  • Why does any character stay dead for any amount of time? There are plenty of ways to resurrect and if those don't work, there is the Spirit Healer
    • Captain Obvious, but Gameplay and Story Segregation (unless you want to lose definitely your level 80 characters each time you die because a moron in your pick-up group cast the wrong spell).
    • Because we serve the all-powerful blizz-gods and are granted immortality through them, whereas none of the NPCs do.
    • Because Griftah sends a package of nifty doodads to every new player character. His store in Shattrath is only there in case you lose one.

    Troll bears 

  • Why can't trolls have beards? The Shadow Hunter in Warcraft III had a prominent one, many pieces of artwork show them with beards, and even the icon on the race select screen shows them with a beard.
    • Male trolls can't have beards for the same reason female trolls can't have face paint: The designers just didn't bother.


  • Why exactly doesn't Saronite affect the players in any way? To elaborate, it's been explicitly stated several times that Saronite's the blood of Yogg-Saron, and that those exposed to the mineral for prolonged periods of time go insane. What about the vast portion of the WoW playerbase with, say, Saronite armor? No one's asking for a constant Interface Screw, but a few malign whispers every now and then would be quite apropos....
    • Same reason that every single miner and blacksmith in Classic WoW didn't develop cancer.
    • Having spent last night in Dalaran watching trade chat fill up with variations on spells, achievements and talents combined with the word "anal", I'm not so sure saronite hasn't wreaked its awful curse already.
    • It would also be somewhat unbalanced, as while Saronite is often a component in making items, many of the items that are made out of Saronite, such as Saronite Swordbreakers, are for plate-wearing classes.
    • Player characters are adventurers. In the middle of training and preparing to defeat the worst evil ever, an adventurer will drop everything to kill pigs for a demon to eat and crap out a set of keys. Adventurers are already insane. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
    • the "adventurers" are just the meat puppets we, the players, work through to interact with azeroth, they don't have a mind to drive insane.
    • This can be summed up in four words: Gameplay and Story Segregation.

    Expanded universe 

  • How is WoW an Expanded Universe? It is the core around which the franchise revolves. Even the RTS games that came before WoW are known as "Those games that came before WoW" to most players.
    • Expanded Universe means books, manga, and all the other supplemental material that surrounds the main franchise.


  • Of all the odd positions they could sit in and all the races that could sit that way, why do humans /sit in seiza?
    • ...why wouldn't they?
    • No reason, it's just a weird position to sit in.
    • Not that weird. Maybe it's because I studied martial arts in my younger years, maybe it's because I have a chronic bruised tailbone, but when I sit on the ground, that's how I sit (at least until my feet fall asleep).
    • Least humans can actually sit - I've never met a troll in my life who has known how to sit. They just squat.


  • What happens when an achievement that is part of another one gets affected by a game change? For example, Blackwing Lair will apparently be upgraded to a Cataclysm-level raid, leaving the question of whether players will still need to do it for the Classic Raider achievement (This is especially relevant for this troper, as it is the only raid he still needs to do for Classic Raider). Additionally, Gnomeregan will be removed from the game (and thus, most likely from Classic Dungeonmaster's list of requirements). Considering that Cairne and Magni die, and Garrosh becomes Warchief, the For the Alliance! and For the Horde! achievements may see some changes, as well as most likely creating additional requirements or achievements for the new faction leaders.
    • It could become a Feat of Strength, or have its requirements removed. There is some precedence that some of them might go the former route, although there's no doubt in my mind that FTH/A will be updated to reflect the new leadership. Onyxia's Lair (Level 60) was made a Feat. The Fifth Element was added as a Feat once they removed the questline for the Aqual Quintessence. Timear Foresees was also made a Feat when he was removed from Dalaran. And on another note, Blackwing Lair isn't getting touched. There is a new raid coming out that features Nefarian as the end boss called Blackwing Descent. Second, Gnomeregan is staying put as well. The retaking of it inevitably fails, although the gnomes do secure the upper portion (aka everything before the instance portal).

    Darkspear population 

  • How do the Darkspear maintain their population? Already described as the smallest of the Jungle Troll tribes, there was enough of them to fit on the Horde’s stolen boats in the Warcraft III demo, several of them blow themselves up as their unit ability in the same game, several must have been killed in their Horde’s missions in Warcraft III, and Admiral proudmoore viciously attacked the Echo isles in Warcraft III which must have killed a dozen Darkspear.
    • Most significantly Zalazane is said to have brainwashed most of the Darkspear population in World Of Warcraft, which makes the Darkspear population much lower the in Warcraft III. There’s been no indication that Vol’jin freed any in Cataclysm and he hasn’t recruited any more tribes like the orcs and tauren. Additionally they’re shown to have a large civillian population in the troll starting quests despite the constant trauma they continually face. Even if they had been screwing like rabbits when on the orcs ship and somehow raised their young while moving constantly to Kalimdor, there hasn’t been enough time for their hypothetical kids to grow to adulthood. TLDR version:How do the Darkspear continue to be a noticipable population in Azeroth when they’re a small tribe that has had its numbers totally devasted repeteadly(including most of their population being brainwashed and killed) and have had no time to grow?
    • This problem actually applies to the entire horde, the darkspear are just the most prominent example. The orcs consist of the small group that fit on the ships thrall managed to capture, as well as the Mag'har, who were already facing extinction back in TBC. It's pretty doubtful many other orcs managed to find a way around the world. Not to mention the fact that many of the orcs that joined the horde were agents of the shadow council or twilight hammer, which further brings down the population after their respective questlines/events. The tauren, like the Mag'har, were fearing extinction back in WCIII, and their military power was so small that they couldn't even flee without the help of Thrall. The forsaken originally consisted of a small group, are surrounded by enemies, and only replenish their numbers very slowly. The blood elves first had most of their members die during the scourge attacks, then had a number defect to the alliance, then lost a significant portion to mana madness, then had a majority leave to join Kael'thas or Illidan, then lost the isle of Quel'danas to demonic invasion(though they're probably still the largest faction). The goblins that joined the horde all had to escape a friggin' volcano.
    • The Alliance has the advantage of numbers but isn't doing much better. The humans are composed of Stormwind and the refugees of Lordaeron who didn't become Scourge, Forsaken or Scarlet Crusaders. The majority of the gnomes died in the trogg invasion and the radiation bomb. The dwarves were, until Cataclysm, only one out of the three major factions. The Night Elves had fewer population crises, but most of the battle against the Burning Legion's demonic forces in the Third War took place on their territory. The Draenei lost many to the Burning Legion and the Orcs. And the Gilneans suffered losses from the out-of-control worgen even before the Forsaken invasion. This just goes to show that Azeroth is quite a Crapsack World.
    • You forgot Kul Tiras. And Stormwind already was one of the largest factions in the world and has suffered very little damage in the last 47 years. The dwarves, while only one out of three factions, were a very large one out of three factions, and had several hundred years to build population. You are right regarding gnomes and gilneans though.
    • Kul'tiras suffered losses in the second war, practically its entire navy was destroyed during Daelin's attack on Kalimdor, they have little connection to the modern Alliance, and their homeland is said by Word of God to have been destroyed/damaged heavily by Cataclysm. Stormwind's suffered incredible losses in the first war, there were no survivors of the Brotherhood of the Horse, New Stormwind was also viciously attacked by Teron Gorefiend in the Second War, and the The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm says they lost about 50,000 men in Northrend. Only Ironforge remains untouched. Simply put, being on the brink of extinction is a popular backstory.
    • The Orc and Tauren numbers are actually explained in WoW. Thrall has recruited more orc clans as established in various class quest lines. the Tauren in WC 3 were only the Bloodhoof tauren and Cairne united all the Tauren tribes in WoW. Still in general, every races numbers just seem to be set at ENOUGH.
    • Wait, where were the orc clans that Thrall recruited residing? There were five orc groups that were never imprisoned: Frostwolf, warsong, dark horde, remains of the burning blade and remains of the stormreaver clan. The frostwolf and warsong were already in the new horde, while the dark horde, remains of the burning blade and remains of the stormreaver were hostile to Thrall. That means that the orc clans that thrall would recruit would still have to be in the interment camps. During the third war. When demons and undead flooded lordaeron. And even if they survived, did Thrall break out the remaining orcs or did the alliance free them? The former would have caused a war, while Kul Tiras and Stromgarde would never have agreed with the latter.
    • Several Burning Blade orcs joined the modern Horde in both WC3 and WoW, typically serving as Blademasters. Much of the Blackrock clan actually joined the modern Horde, the Dark Horde being mostly composed of the Black Tooth Grin clan. There is also a least on Stormreaver ex member(Garona) with connections to the Horde. The Horde also recruited more clan members in expansions like BC and Cata, this isn't even touching the clans from The Expanded Universe. Ultimately though, population numbers don't matter much in WoW.

    Elements and Thrall 

  • So the elements of Azeroth are going crazy. Thrall recognizes this and heads to Nagrand, because Outland's elements have been through a similar catastrophe and may be able to help. Because it's not like there are any shaman on Azeroth that learned directly from those elements after Draenor shattered, and there's certainly not one who was their only shaman for years afterward, and would already have some idea of how to deal with it. Really? Is a little important draenei involvement too much to ask for?
    • Draenei shamanism is a relatively recent and still fairly ad-hoc movement (the first draenei shaman, Nobundo, only turned to the ways of the elements after the orcs sacked Shattrath) — nothing compared to the orcs, whose shaman traditions span centuries. Which, of course, brings the question of why none of the older orc shamans can go to the Maelstrom in place of the effing Warchief...
    • By my count (I really really wish we had an official timeline) Nobundo and Thrall have been shaman for about the same number of years. And Thrall has only been to Outland once that we know of, probably not many more times considering how busy he must be. So Nobundo would be more experienced with the Draenor elements. But of course we're sent after this random Dwarf guy, because Blizz has to promote Dwarf shaman.
    • Unless Thrall started training as a shaman a lot earlier than he logically would have had the opportunity, Nobundo's got him beat for experience. And Muln Earthfury almost certainly has Nobundo beat. So Muln holding the world together would probably have made more sense. (I half suspect Thrall got the role because he's a staff favorite.)
    • The nightmare of Iso'Rath and Twilight of the Aspects indicate that Thrall is just one of many shaman at the Maelstrom, along with Aggra, Muln, Nobundo and Rehgar.
    • In The Shattering, it's shown that Thrall's first choice was his old teacher Drek'thar, but he was getting senile, so Thrall decided to go to Greatmother Geyah, who sends him to Aggra. The dwarf never appears, which is one conflict between the pre-Cataclysm game events and the book (similar to how Vol'jin wasn't present when Thrall told Garrosh he was appointing him warchief in the book).
    • Lord of the Clans seemed to indicate that Shamanism is something of a Hard Work Hardly Works situation. While study and dedication are necessary to become a shaman, once you've actually become one, natural aptitude and how much the elements and spirits like you seems to be the deciding factor. Once Thrall received the blessing of the spirits, he surpassed Drek'thar, who'd been a shaman at that point for the better part of fifty years, almost instantly.

    Fights to the death 

    Pit of Arthas 

  • Just out of curiosity:If there is a Pit of Sauron in in Northrend, does that mean Middle Earth has a Pit of Arthas?
    • I thought it was Pit of Saron as in Yogg-Saron.
    • It is, as the slaves are mining saronite, Yogg-Saron's blood.

    Druids in the Shattering 

  • Near the end The Shattering, Garrosh meets up with Baine. Hammul Runetotem was there! This would've been the perfect opportunity to bring the attack on the druids earlier in the book! Especially since the reason why Cairne challenged Garrosh to a duel in the first place was because he thought that he had ordered the attacks on the druids! But there was no mention on it. He could've brought it up, and Garrosh could've attempted to explain that he didn't order the assassinations! But no mention of it was ever made! Just a passing plot point.
    • Garrosh didn't exactly do a good job of tactfully or convincingly denying his role in the massacre when Cairne confronted him the first time, and it's unlikely that Hamuul (who met with Baine after he fled Bloodhoof Village) learned anything more. Baine seems to indicate the meeting is less about Cairne's grievances against Garrosh, and more about his own.
    Baine: My father issued the mak'gora, and the argument between you and he is settled, even if, due to Magatha's treachery, the fight was no fair one.

    Tranquil Wash base 

  • What's with the mood swings in the Tranquil Wash base in Cataclysm? The NPC's are laughing one moment, then crying the next, then the cycle starts around again. But why?
    • I've seen this happening with the people in the Silver Covenant's PVP portal area, albeit not as suddenly switching. Perhaps it's some sort of post-traumatic effect?

    Fighting over Wintergrasp and Tol Barad 

  • What exactly is the official logic behind having Alliance and Horde players fight over Wintergrasp and Tol Barad? It results in access to PVE content being dependent on how good your faction is at PVP, which means at best, that if you're planning a guild run on Baradin Hold, you can't know for certain who has it and at worst, means that you have hardly any opportunities to do it. The only recourse for many PVErs is to compete in the battlegrounds, which they may not wish to do or be prepared to win.
    • Word of God stated specifically the idea for world PVP objectives is exactly that, to "persuade" PVErs to PvP by baiting them with PVE content.
    • As the OP, I wonder if the same principle is at play in BH, given how often both of the bosses' drops have been PVP gear. I only saw my class' DPS leg armor drop after I had already obtained them from Normal Dragon Soul.

    Faceless Ones 

  • Why do they call them "Faceless Ones" when they clearly have faces? No mouths that we see, yes, but there are eyes and a nose-analogue (at least appearance-wise). Either give them no faces or call them something else.
    • The Faceless Ones are servants of the Old Gods, to the extent that whenever Faceless Ones appear it is guaranteed an Old God is involved. Not much is known about them, but it's plausible that they are all the mindless hand of whomever is controlling them and individually are completely "faceless". But that's mostly speculation.
    • This song about another Faceless says it best: one part of a face does not constitute a face.

    Scarlet Monastery 

  • The cultists in the Scarlet Monastery instance will scream about how you are impure for not following the ways of the Light even as you slaughter them with holy magic.
    • They're insane fanatics who think only they are true followers of the Light and everyone else is a heretic. What else would you expect?
    • Perhaps just as we see them as a case of Light Is Not Good, the same applies to us from their point of view. Plenty of bosses use holy magic, such as the other members of the Scarlet Crusade, Sir Zeliek in Naxxrammas (a special case among death knights) Anhuur in Halls of Origination and Archbishop Benedictus in the Hour of Twilight.

    Holy Shock 

  • Speaking of holy magic, the Paladin spell Holy Shock. Hurts enemies, heals friends. But how does it know which is which? If it's going off the intention of the caster, then what's stopping me from using the much more powerful Holy Light to hurt enemies instead? Holy magic is holy magic, I should be able to channel it however I wish.
    • Possibly for the same reason a tank can stand in the middle of a mage's Blizzard without being hurt while the mobs that he picked up take damage, or why fellow party members are unable to use their offensive abilities to hurt each other. There's presumably an identify friend or foe feature on magic, even if there's no in-universe explanation and side works (especially Rhonin's backstory) raise the possibility of friendly fire.
    • Probably Gameplay and Story Segregation as Anti-Frustration Features. Also likely an Acceptable Break from Reality.

    Shadow Vault and Baron Silver 

  • In Icecrown, there is a quest chain that leads to conquest of The Shadow Vault. You assist a Death knight named Baron Sliver, who is pretending to still be under Lich King's control. In the second quest in the chain (after you destroy The Ocular) he says something like "Don't think that we are safe yet, The Lich King can still see through his Scourge minions". Wait, what? If he can see through Scourge under his control, how come that he isn't aware of Sliver?
    • Death Knights were special amongst the Scrouge. They had there own sense of self and much greater freedom then the rank and file Scourge, which was why the Ebon Blade was able to break free from the Lich King's hold like they had. The ones he claimed the Lich king could see through were the mindless ghouls/geists/zombies etc.
    • It could be as though the Lich King's minions are like security cameras and the Lich King is sitting in the monitor room. He may be able to look into any one of them if he suspects something is amiss (and teleport there if necessary), but if nothing is happening, he might not even think to look, and thus overlook Baron Silver.

    Forsaken recruitment 

  • Have the Forsaken even considered the possibility of recruitment? It seems to work fine for the Cult of the Damned and Twilight's Hammer, why aren't there Forgotten Shadow missionaries preaching and handing out pamphlets in Horde and neutral towns? There's a quest chain focused on helping a plague-infected paladin who doesn't want to become undead, where's the quest chain about helping someone who's mortally wounded or fatally poisoned and wants to become undead?
    • In the RPG this is pretty much what they did. The forsaken had necromancers that would raise dead into fresh forsaken(with care and respect, not in a manner of violation like the lich king), and the cult was very big on recruitment(problem being it was also extremely fractured and couldn't agree on anything). Thing is, Blizzard seems to have about as much respect for the rpg information as they do for the paper they wipe their ass with(and the two may indeed be one and the same), so if the rpg presents a good idea, it's likely Blizzard's going to go in the other direction.
    • Eh, the RPG had a lot of lore problems too. Tauren tech-mods are the most obvious example. Also, the weird thing where half-orcs, children of two warring races, are more accepted than half-elves, children of two races that have been allied for about a thousand years. The manual of monsters dedicating the entire third section to putting stuff from Dungeons & Dragons in the Warcraft universe.
    • I liked tauren tech-mods.
    • Fair enough. However, since that comment, I finally read all the first edition RPG books and there are plenty more problems, mostly concerning weird and inconsistently applied retcons. I'm not sure which is more blatant; alliance armies driving Illidan off Azeroth (rather than what we see in the frozen throne) or all warcraft undead being sentient and independent. I actually did a review of all first edition RPG books here.
    • Admittedly the first edition had a lot of issues. Also had quite a few good ideas, such as Jaina's half elf half sister that Blizzard decided to retcon out, and a lot of the magic items and technological devices were really cool. The second edition is generally an improvement on just about every front, though. But really, the rpg and WoW have two different focuses; the rpg is there to give players the tools to tell a story. WoW is there for people to collect loot. That's not a jab; a lot of people like raiding and PvP and couldn't care less about the story. That's there prerogative and they're the market blizzard is selling to.
    • The Horde War Campaign in Battle for Azeroth has Thomas Zelling, a human Tidesage who is mortally ill and makes a pact with the Horde to be raised into undeath in exchange for his family being kept safe.

    Mekkatorque and Thermaplugg 

  • In Mekkatorque's short story, it's revealed that Thermaplugg was never a good engineer, and Mekkatorque was always covering for him. So why didn't Mekkatorque check the numbers on the radiation himself? Why trust Thermaplugg?
    • Gnomes typically have a "crazy" inventor who pushes the devices as far as they can go (Thermaplugg) and one who actually makes them workable (Mekkatorque). The problem seems to be that Thermaplugg thought he could do it alone, hence his jealousy, and Mekkatorque thought the bomb was a workable idea.

    Tauren Shadow Priests 

  • What exactly would a Tauren Shadow Priest be? Tauren Paladins are explained as being part of the Sunwalkers, but Tauren Shadow Priests do not seem to have an explanation.
    • Dark side of the Moon?
    • Draenei and Night Elves don't really have an explanation for them either. I think it's just a side effect of the way the priest class was implemented. There are too many types of priest to stuff into one class, but they really didn't want there to be four or five race-specific specs. Thus, every race ends up with the Forsaken's shadow spec and the humans'/dwarves' holy themes.
    • Additionally, the Forsaken shouldn't be able to use Holy magic as undead, but they can in the game, possibly because otherwise the Horde would have few options for priests in vanilla.
      • Actually the Forsaken can use holy magic (well, at least the Light), it just hurts them like hell.
    • Classic case of Gameplay and Story Segregation. There's no story or plot reason that Tauren shadow priests would exist; but it's a gameplay mechanic that can't be removed without gimping the players that play that class.

    Teleporting armies 

  • Why don't the Alliance just teleport their army to right in front of Orgrimmar? They have mages. In fact, the Horde has mages too, so why doesn't Garrosh just have a bunch of mages teleport his army to Stormwind's gates? Why even bother with troop movement? I mean, Jaina can teleport several people from the Undercity to Stormwind. The war would totally be over by now!
    • Just because one of the most powerful mages in the world can teleport several people doesn't mean that they have enough mages strong enough to teleport an entire army. It's an awful idea for a number of reasons - win or lose, they'd be in the middle of now-enraged enemy-territory, with no supply lines or line of retreat! But you're right that the war would totally be over by now if someone tried it - having thrown away a large part of their army on an idiotic gamble, they'd be easy prey for the other side.
    • To be fair, that sound exactly like the kind of thing Garrosh Hellscream would do.
    • Presumably, there's something about the destination that only enables people to teleport to friendly territory, likely due in large part to Gameplay and Story Segregation; Jaina is allowed to teleport to Thrall's throne room because she's friends with him, and Varian and Jaina teleport to Deathbringer's Rise in Icecrown Citadel only after Deathbringer Saurfang is defeated.*
    • Presumably each faction is employing it's own mages to block, scramble, or otherwise prevent the opposing faction from doing just that.
    • This sounds much more likely, given that in 5.1, after Jaina learns about the Divine Bell being stolen from Dalaran, she goes on the trail of the thieves, and realizes that it leads back to Dalaran, and that the Sunreavers allowed the Horde to use Dalaran's portal network. There seems to be a bit of Gameplay and Story Segregation at work, but the short answer seems to be that it isn't easy to teleport just anywhere, much less near or into an enemy capital city.


  • Archaeologists can find pieces of a "canopic jar", and then open it, which on rare occasions contains a valuable alchemical recipe. So, you're assembling the scattered remains of some ancient urn, and then taking it apart to see what's inside? This sounds like a poor usage of time.
    • What's even stranger is that the digsites in which you find pieces, sorted by the race that created the artifact, can be miles or even continents apart; you could find half of the fragments of a Troll artifact in Tanaris and the other half in Stranglethorn Vale.
    • Because Archaeology was supposed to be only a part of the more important (but never explained) "Path of the Titans" profession/progression system. When PotT was scrapped, Archaeology was hacked into a barely-sensible secondary profession, based almost entirely on RNG and that virtually nobody likes.

    Forsaken freedom 

  • Seeing how the Forsaken only regained free will because the Lich King was weakened, shouldn't they have fallen back into his thrall after Arthas, so to say, "repaired" him, or at least after that battle of the will of his was finished and he gained full control?
    • Perhaps the Lich King would have to somehow re-establish control, which is presumably given at the same time as they're animated as undead. There are some Forsaken who joined after Arthas merged with the Lich King, as it's said in the RPG that Grand Apothecary Faranell was of little importance to the Lich King because he couldn't raise the dead, enabling Sylvanas to recruit him.
    • The RPG also made it clear that this was, in fact, happening. As soon as a year prior to the start of World of Warcraft, some forsaken were developing a condition similar to dementia where their minds would deteriorate and they would eventually become enslaved again. The standard procedure for this was euthanasia. It also made it clear that forsaken were vulnerable to being enslaved by necromancers, so working on ways of countering that was one of their main areas of research.
    • The Lich King was never as powerful after the events of The Frozen Throne as he had been before. Remember, Arthas was losing power at the same rate that Ner'zhul was until the very end of the game, and when Arthas destroyed the Frozen Throne, a lot more of the Lich King's power was lost as heat (which is why the lake surrounding Icecrown was so much larger in the final cinematic than it had been in the final scenario of The Frozen Throne). The merge between Arthas and Ner'zhul only restored a small fraction of the power the Lich King had lost throughout Warcraft III: not nearly enough for the Lich King to regain control of the Forsaken.

    Varian vs Garrosh 

  • 3.1 Ulduar trailer: Varian and Garrosh fight. More or less evenly matched. Wolfheart: Varian gets possessed by Goldrinn, gaining enough stamina to run all the way across Ashenvale without tiring, the speed to swing his sword so fast it's a blur, and the agility to climb on top of magnataur to slay them faster than worgen can. He tracks down Garrosh and they fight. And they are still evenly matched.
    • Varian didn't quite get the Arms rotation down as well (Garrosh had Saurfang to teach him). That being said, the scene in the book is more like "fight for a few seconds, something else intervenes, try to find each other again, fight for a few seconds" ad nauseaum.
    • As a player with a Warrior main, isn't Arms typically much better for PVP than Fury (which is the preferred PVE spec for warriors, and has a bit of Fridge Brilliance in how Garrosh goes from fighting off mob invaders in Nagrant to fighting the Alliance)? And shouldn't Varian be Fury if he's dual-wielding, which would put him at a disadvantage against Garrosh?
    • The fight in the 3.1 trailer lasted maybe four seconds. That's not really enough to tell anything about the two fighters. And in Wolfheart, Garrosh loses the fight, precisely because he doesn't have Varian's enanced stamina. He would have died if not for the arrival of a magnataur.
    • Exactly: he only lost because of the stamina boost. Not the super speed or agility. If Varian IS naturally that much worse than Garrosh, to where a buff from Goldrinn makes them equal, at least it's consistent, but I really doubt that's the case.
    • I haven't read the book(nor will I, I refuse to read anything by Knaak after war of the ancients), one could posit that Varian's super speed and agility are actually handicaps; he isn't used to moving that fast, isn't used to his body having those capabilities, so he's making mistakes. I'd throw out the analogy to Drizzt Do'Urden trying to use super speed braces and finding that they made his swings too fast to control and thus incredibly straight and predictable. Then again, I'm probably giving Knaak way too much credit with that one.
    • Garrosh points out that he got Gorehowl since his last fight, which is an upgrade to his combat capabilities.


  • Teldrassil bugs me. At the start of vanilla, the entire thing is at most 4 years old, probably only 3 or 2. It is not a natural area. So how the hell did all the furbolg get on top of the miles-high tree? And how did the ancient highborne structure suddenly appear? Did the night elves, despite growing all their other structures from trees, just decide to go retro and import marble? And how the hell does a tree grow mountains (with caves no less) on top of it anyway? Did the night elves just decide to import all the wild creatures?
    • Yes, they did import all the plants and animals and dirt, because it's important for their giant druidic tree to have life on it. The real question is why the newly-founded city of Darnassus is apparently so rooted in their culture that it's the name of their faction and language. Although, WMG warning here... it's possible that Darnassus was an ancestral capital of the night elven nation that was sunken under the sea during the Sundering (like the tomb of Sargeras). In which case, the elves could grow their tree on it intentionally, knowing it would raise the city out of the water. All of which would be potent symbolically, until it started going to hell...
    • How about Talindrela? She's supposedly a dryad of the forests, and people act like she has vanished for ages... but it has been at most 3 years at this point, even if you accept that the growth of Teldrassil and the growth of the forests on the tree only took a few months.
    • In addition to what is stated above, they did import marble and other building materials. Also, when they grew the tree it could have been under large rocks which were lifted up as the tree grew. It's all but outright stated that Teldrassil's growth was accelerated through the use of druidic magic. In regards to Talindrela, it's possible she is a more social dryad and not speaking to the Night Elves for three years is unusual behavior from her.

    Worgen druids and mounts 

  • Two things bug me about the worgen, even though I love them as a playable race option. First and foremost... worgen druids. I understand that they wanted to add an extra druid race for each faction, and that druidism isn't exactly an easy class to find races for, but why worgen? Worgen were all human until just recently, and their status as druids is made particularly jarring by the in-game implications that there were Gilnean druids even before they made contact with the night elves. Seems to me that the draenei would have been a better choice for druids, and the worgen could have gotten paladins instead (since the Horde got a new shaman race with the goblins, but the Alliance didn't get a new paladin race). The second thing is the fact that Blizzard is planning on giving the worgen actual mounts in patch 4.3... bareback horses. I get that they're really only adding the mounts because people were complaining that the lack of worgen mounts was due to players complaining that it was easier for Horde to get mount achievements now, and that they want the worgen players to stick with Running Wild, but... given the level of creativity that Blizzard usually puts into these things, bareback horses seem really lazy and unimaginative.
    • The problem for the mounts is probably that Gilneas is pretty well-established lore-wise. It was a faction in the earlier warcraft games and it was seen quite recently in the comics. Any strange or fantastic beasts would really have felt out of place.
    • This seems to be the main reason, especially since Gilneans were, and some still are, human. It thus makes sense for them to also use horses, although I've found Alliance racial mounts less interesting than the Horde's, as a whole.
    • It could be a case where Blizzard had to do something that they never planned on. The mounts weren't added because Alliance players would need to find two more mounts to get an achievement, but because Horde players who had the Goblin trikes and faction changed (a paid service) to Alliance would run into the issue of having nothing to change the trikes into. Therefore, they had to do something, but did not budget any time to do something special or proper, so they did the fastest, cheapest thing they could.
    • Say, remember when Tauren didn't have a mount and got Plainsrunning for free?
    • This never happened on the live servers or in the release version of the game. It was something that was toyed with in the beta when the game was still under development. It was scrapped before launch (and Tauren given kodos as mounts).
    • Draenei getting a new class, especially druid (appropriate as it probably would have been, all Fan Wank aside) would require Blizzard to stop shuffling them under the rug and give them relevance to the metaplot, rather than focusing the vast majority of the Alliance's lore on humans. And if that were to happen, certain loud fans who still feel personally affronted by BC would rage.
      Hopefully, Blizzard will eventually figure out that said loud fans are not, in fact, in the majority (even if they tend to fraudulently present themselves as such) and stop listening to them. But that's not happening yet, and looks unlikely to happen in this expansion pack.
    • The funny thing is; the other members of the alliance are self-aware. Tyrande didn't invite the Draenei faction leader(s) to vote on whether or not the Worgen should join the alliance because they were so centered on the burning Legion and Outland that they thought they went back to Outland, and that the only other draenei left were shamans in the earthen ring or warriors in the Argent Crusade. If you ask me, that's a good "Hey guys, forgot about them?".
    • If I recall correctly, Velen sent Ishanah, head of the Aldor, to vote on his behalf. Varian was the only one who had a problem with Gilneas joining.
    • Worgen Druids actually do have justification to them. The Worgen curse itself is Druidic magic, it was created when a group of Night Elf Druids attempted to use the Scythe of Elune to create a wolf form, and indeed it's Druidic magic that allows the Gilneans to retain their human minds as Worgen rather than going feral. The preexisting Gilnean "Druids" are Hand Waved as being harvest witches in the early levels, and by the time you get your first form the Night Elves have arrived so presumably you've started learning from them. With Druidic magic having such a heavy impact on their culture, it's not unreasonable to assume some Gilneans would want to study it.

    Finale titles 

  • Wouldn't it make more sense if the final raid of Cataclysm was called "Hour of Twilight" and the third Patch 4.3 5-man dungeon was called "Dragon Soul?" The raid is essentially set in the Hour of Twilight that you're trying to prevent from happening, while the dungeon involves escorting the Dragon Soul, and most of the enemies are specifically trying to kill Thrall and retrieve the Dragon Soul.
    • It makes more sense that way. Especially Fridge Brilliance if it takes about an hour for an average group to finish all the raid's encounters.

    Dragon mounts 

  • If dragons are sentient, how does using one as a mount work? I could see a dragon giving you a lift somewhere because you're friends, but basically acting as a full time personal servant? No way. So, what goes on there? Do dragons just give away mentally damaged children that don't have the self-awareness to protest being used as mounts?
    • Drakes are said to be of less intelligent than dragons. Some might be sentient, but others, like mounts and trash mobs, might not be.
    • I guess wowwiki could be wrong, but it says drakes are just much younger dragons, and there are many drakes that speak completely normally.
    • The Netherwing drakes you get are intelligent, as you can talk to them before you choose which one you get as a mount when you complete the Netherwing quests. In this case, they appreciate how you helped free them from the Dragonmaw Orcs and want to aid you in your future adventures.
    • The red drakes are obtained after becoming exalted with Wyrmrest and earning the respect of the dragons there. The blue drakes are looted from Blue Dragonflight bosses, they were likely holdouts who disagreed with the "kill everyone and break the world" plans and were being held prisoner. After you free them they could become your mount out of gratitude.

    Alexstraza and Ysera 

  • How exactly are Alexstraza and Ysera sisters? In the Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects geneaology guide, they are the only Aspects noted as being siblings, even though some of the Aspects address the others as "brother" or "sister".
    • While the dragon aspects were the first of their species, they were created from the protodragons (and those from the elemental dragons). So the titans could have taken two protodragons who happened to be sisters.
    • Or it may simply be a term of endearment; they've known each other for thousands of years.
  • In The War of the Ancients trilogy, an orc and a human mage travel back in time and fight in the war of the ancients on the side of the night elves. Tyrande meets them personally. At the end of the trilogy, the timeline is not reset. Yet neither of these factors appear to have any effect on the events of Warcraft III. Why did the night elves (who have lived since the war of the ancients) and Cenarius still attack the horde without warning in the altered timeline?
    • Wait, when was the Timey-Wimey Ball used? As far as appearances go, the new timeline has been adopted in all places. Except that Malygos randomly went crazy again, but since he still had his flight, so even that story was changed.
    • As far as I know, Malygos was insane until the eggs from the Blue Dragonflight were returned to the present and it was re-established. Afterward, he was no longer literally insane (and unable to make plans of any sort), but became technically insane in reaching the conclusion, based on his experience and fueled by bitterness that can't be erased just by re-establishing his flight, that humanity could not be trusted with magic.
  • Thanks to the new Chronicle: Volume 1 book, we now in fact that know Alexstraza and Ysera are indeed sisters — they were originally proto-drakes, like the other three Aspects, and they were explicitly identified as sisters and "nestmates" (implying that they hatched from the same clutch). Their other (proto-drake) siblings didn't become the modern dragons as we know them.
    • However, them calling the other Aspects "brothers" are indeed a term of endearment.

    End Time randomness 

  • Is End Time really random? I've run it a good twenty times and every time has been Tyrande and Baine Bloodhoof.
    • Yes it is random, you've just been very, very unlucky.
    • As of late, Baine has become less common for me, compared to Sylvanas and Jaina, with occasionally Tyrande thrown in.

    Killing the Scourge 

  • At the end of Wrath Of The Lich King, Bolvar Fordragon makes himself the new Lich King, in order to keep a leash on the Scourge. As Lich King, couldn't he simply have ordered all the Scourge to jump off a cliff or something? Problem solved!
    • There might be some kind of failsafe built into the whole thing that prevents the Lich King from screwing his own forces over.
    • Considering Kil'Jaeden intended to use the Scourge as a tool but made the first Lich King out of someone he had royally screwed over, there are almost certainly limitations built into the Helm of Command to keep the Scourge in line. They didn't work, obviously, but that was because Ner'zhul found one hell of an Unwitting Pawn in Arthas.

    Gilneas as Victorian 

  • While I definitely agree that the Worgen are cool, I can't help but wonder: why is Gilneas the only Human kingdom based on a real-world place? All the other Human kingdoms seem kind of generic.
    • Dalaran is less generic as well. As for why? Gilneas has always kept its culture separated from the other kingdoms, so while those developed simultaneously in roughly the same direction, the Gilneans developed their own unique culture.

    Stormwind population 

  • Where did the massive population of Stormwind come from? Only 40 years before the start of World of Warcraft, the entirety of the kingdom had been conquered by the orcs. Most humans still present were killed or kept as slaves (and orcs were very cruel to slaves). The only people who escaped had to escape by ship, so unless there were a few hundred massive ships just standing by, there should have been no more than a few thousand survivors, many of which also fought in the second war, resulting in even more deaths. Yet now, a single generation after its retaking, its suddenly the largest, most populous and most powerful nation on the face of the planet. How did they rebuild so quickly? Where did the population come from? What were they doing during the third war?
    • Stormwind's population probably exploded after the Third War. Since Gilneas was closed off, Kul Tiras was out at sea, and everything else was destroyed, anyone who survived the Scourge would have run down south. The Beyond the Dark Portal book outright states that Stormwind was rebuilt at the same time they were building Nethergarde Keep, just after the Second War. During the Third War, I doubt any Scourge got down that far, but they were probably fighting demons. The Legion's focus was in Kalimdor, but there are still scenes where they're shown attacking the Eastern Kingdoms.
    • Actually, that version of Stormwind (called New Stormwind) was attacked and presumably at least heavily damaged if not destroyed during the Warcraft II expansion. This is the third iteration of the city in 20 years. And Southshore (lordaeron) and Menethil Harbor (unknown, but probably Kul Tiras or Lordaeron) were both still intact after the third war and a lot closer for refugees. They could have taken a boat to Stormwind from there, but also to Boralus or Theramore.
    • Stormwind was not destroyed in BTDP, not even heavily damaged. The orcs were just there for the Book of Medivh, and left after stealing it. The novelization makes it clearer.

    Scourge army 

  • Where does the scourge get its massive army from? After Warcraft III, I just assumed that the scourge had scourged most of the continent of lordaeron, but that is evidently not the case. In fact, the only nations they really scourged were Azjol-Nerub, Quel'thalas, Lordaeron and Dalaran. While a significant number of people lived (or were buried) in those states, they fought a large number of wars afterwards. First, they failed their main purpose in the invasion of Kalimdor. Then, a civil war was fought between the dreadlords and Arthas. Then the forsaken broke free. Then the blood elves and forsaken freed much of Quel'thalas. Then they failed assaults on all major cities. How are the scourge still numerous enough to overthrow the world if set loose?
    • When your main source of recruits is death, you can expect quite an inflow when anything alive exists, let alone fights other living things.
    • The bulk of their forces actually comes from mass graves and tombs. The bodies of the long dead pile up. With the plague, they can also turn a substantial number of enemies, both combatants and noncombatants into loyal soldiers without losing a single one of their own. On top of that, not only do they raise the bodies of their fallen enemies, but their own fallen can either be raised again or used for spare parts. On top of all of that, the threat the Scourge poses isn't based completely on numbers(though they do have the largest single army on Azeroth), but rather in the advantages of undeath. Their forces don't have to sleep or eat, they don't have to be outfitted or equipped. They can march continuously. They can't really be demoralized. Put all that on top of their abilities that make recouping their losses so easy, and you're left with a force that can win just about any war through attrition.

    Blood elves and the Horde 

  • In terms of lore, what is the justification for the Blood Elves joining the Horde? They wouldn't even be Blood Elves, if the Undead hadn't ravaged their homeland. Before that, the Orcs did their best to burn Quel'thalas. And the Trolls have been doing the same since before then. And these might not be Forest Trolls, but they still shouted "Revenge for Zul'jin!" in Warcraft III. So, the Blood Elves are so unprejudiced that they ally with three races who worked to destroy their homeland?
    • The undead of the horde rebelled from the ones that destroyed their homeland and are led by Sylvanas Windrunner, ranger-general of Silvermoon, probably the single highest ranking elf still friendly to the blood elves.
    • The troll headhunters in Warcraft III were used for both jungle and forest trolls (see blackrock&roll 2), so the zul'jin quote likely only applied to the forest trolls (especially considering the darkspear lived on some isles in the south sea and would likely never have heard of Zul'jin)
    • Different orcs. The orcs of the new horde seem to mostly be of the frostwolf, shattered hand and warsong clan, who weren't part of the horde when Quel'thalas was burnt. The bleeding hollow, which also has a significant presence, was part of the horde, but was active in Khaz Modan.
    • Furthermore, the sin'dorei had essentially three choices: stay allied with the faction that most sin'dorei feel has abandoned them, go it alone, or join a new faction that is coming into its own.
    • The BC-era blood elves likely didn't see their membership in the Horde as a long-term thing. Bear in mind, their presence in Quel'thalas was essentially a rearguard left behind to facilitate transporting the younger blood elves into Outland. Then they start making their way there and it's like "oh fuck, everything here wants to kill us and the people we were following are CRAZY". So their marriage of convenience becomes the real deal.
    • The Blood Elves apparently considered joining the Alliance in 5.1, but decided against it when they found out about what Jaina did with the Sunreavers. Then again, this can be considered the result of Garrosh forcing the member races to re-evaluate their loyalties, although a randomly occurring event in Silvermoon shows some dissidents expressing a desire to return to the Alliance.
    • In the Shadows of the Sun establishes that Sylvanas approached Quel'thalas and all but begged them to let the Forsaken help. From there, it's a small step to joining the Horde, especially since they plan on bailing once in Outland.

    Worgen paladins 

  • As a playable Worgen, you used to be human, right? And you didn't CHOOSE to become a Worgen. Forsaken used to be humans and can be the same classes as humans, except for Paladins (for blatant reasons; the story indicates you choose to become a Forsaken and a Paladin just wouldn't do that). But as a Worgen you still act pretty honourably most of the time. If Blizzard wanted more races to have Druid options, they should have tacked it onto Gnomes (who currently have four classes you cannot be). So how come Worgen can't be Paladins, like humans can be, but they can be druids, while humans can't?
    • What do you mean by choosing to become a Forsaken? In the lore, Forsaken can become paladins or use the Light, but it just hurts them so much that most don't bother. But about your question: worgens are from Gilneas, an isolationist nation that walled itself just after the end of the Second War, at which point the paladin order had just been created and only a hanfull of them existed, and they were all from Stormwind or Lordaeron. Now if the fact that you can play a Gilnean druid before becoming a worgen is never really explained, it still makes more sense to give druids to worgens (as the worgen curse is originally a druid thing) instead of to gnomes (who have never been related to ancients, nature, dragons, the Emerald Dream or anything druidic whatsoever).
    • I believe the lore mentions somewhere that the personal connection Paladins have to the Light protected them from coming back as undead. It doesn't really apply anymore since newer Forsaken are revived by the Valkyrur. As regards druids, the idea within the Gilnean opening is that Gilneas had a more traditionalist culture than Stormwind, with more people worshipping pagan-style druid religion than the Light-centric Stormwind. The major difference between Forsaken and Worgen is that the Worgen are from an entirely different and isolationist culture, while the Forsaken are the standard humans of the setting post-death.
    • I find both these explanations fairly useful. I suppose that means that if a Paladin was bitten by a Worgen, they would either die, or not be affected, rather than Turn? Admittedly, having a noble Paladin who sounds like they're choking on a cockney would be a little odd... Also, the reason I suggested Gnomes for Druids was because right now there are four classes they cannot be, while all the others have at most three.
    • The Worgen curse is Druidic (nature) magic, while Paladins are protected from/effective against undeath and demonic magic. There's no reason a Worgen couldn't become a Paladin or vice versa, they just don't exist in large enough numbers to justify making them playable.
    • Actually, Word of God stated somewhere (I cannot exactly remember where though) that the Worgen "curse" does something funky when involved with a Paladin. Iirc someone in Blizz explained it as such "Paladins are immune or resistant to diseases, corruption and curses. This includes the plague of undeath and the Worgen Curse." That and if a Worgen became a Paladin, they'd be cured of the curse or something like that.
    • Hold on. Highlord Morgaine was an undead and he wasn't just a paladin, he was one of the strongest paladins alive. So how can paladins have an immunity to undeath?
    • Is the Lich king able to override it?

    Finding Pandaria 

  • Okay, so this Pandaria continent has been hidden by mist. And this Turtle Island has been going around looking for new land. But in the thousands of years the pandas were "gone", wouldn't anyone eventually have made like Christopher Columbus and accidentally run into the turtle or Pandaria? ...and this also applies to Kul Tiras... if it indeed got swept out to sea, why didn't anyone eventually run into it either?
    • For Pandaria, the reason (and mechanism) is the same as for Kalimdor. There is apparently some sort of mist that is impossible to traverse, which is what the spell summoned. Kul Tiras has actually never been lost (you can see a bunch of people from Kul Tiras throughout the game), it just moved a bit.
    • I thought Brann Bronzebeard had visited Pandaria, or was that retconned?
    • Yeah, that was from the RPG, so it got retconned.
    • It wasn't retconned, the RPG was never canon.

    Kul Tiras forces 

  • Very belated question, but prior to the cataclysm, Daelin Proudmoore's forces still held two bases in horde territory, remnants from Warcraft III's bonus campaign. However, those forces belong to Kul Tiras, and Kul Tiras had since joined the alliance of Stormwind, which has a peace agreement with the orcs. So why were those forces still there until Cataclysm?
    • And on a similar vein, whatever happened to Lieutenant Alverold? It was said he was bringing ships to attack Durotar in Vanilla WoW.
    • They were holdouts who refused to abandon their post due to loyalty to Daelin. The Alliance just sort of went "Those guys? Yeah we ordered them to leave but they're not listening". Thrall just doesn't want to swoop in and wipe them out because he's afraid it would cause further tensions, at least until the Cataclysm drowns them. As for the ships? They could have turned and went back to Kul Tiras or just been destroyed by all manner of nasties.
    • On a similar note, what's up with the Kul Tiras ranks? Both the scouting fleet and the reserve fleet were apparently led by mere lieutenants, which is just... weird. Typically, lieutenants wouldn't even be in charge of a vessel, let alone a fleet. Even forgetting flag officers, there should at least be a captain or a commander for each ship.
    • They ARE the dregs of Daelin's fleet. Maybe all the higher officers are dead?

    Final Cataclysm 

  • In the last Cataclysm raid, after beating down Deathwing, you go to beat him down again. During the fight, several times, he starts casting 'the final cataclysm' that will destroy all of Azeroth and the Emerald Dream. If he had the power to do this... why didn't he do it to begin with?
    • This isn't the first time something like this happens. If Yogg-Saron's berserk timer runs out, he will Extinguish All Life, which also results in a Total Party Kill. Similarly, Algalon will Ascend to the Heavens if everyone goes into the Black Hole, and will simply leave and request "re-origination" if you run out of time to defeat him, which also leaves the question of why he didn't do so in the first place. As for Deathwing, it could be considered an attack of similar strength to the first time he burst forth from the Maelstrom, which, most immediately, would kill Thrall, the Dragon Aspects and the players, the only ones who would stop him, as well as inflicting a similar amount of damage on Azeroth.
    • The Algalon one makes sense, he's testing the players, giving them a chance to prove their world is worth giving a chance. Only after they fail either through all hiding in the black hole, or running out of time. Does he just eliminate them.
    • Deathwing also makes sense if you consider that Deathwing is/was after all the Aspect of Earth as well as the ridiculous amount of Old God corruption that he has been afflicted with for over a thousand years. By the time we kill him (or rather when Thrall killsteals by shooting him through the chest with the Dragon Soul after our hard work on his Spine), he is practically a reanimated corpse horribly mutated by Old God corruption and mindlessly trying to use what's left of his Aspect powers and supercharging them with Old God juju to finish off the entire planet.

    Glowing eyes 

  • At the end of Cataclysm the Aspects' Titan-given superpowers are spent and they become normal, if still powerful, dragons. This is visually represented by their Glowing Eyes fading into more mundane ones. With the exception of Kalecgos, all the Aspects choose to take the forms of humanoid races that in and of themselves have Glowing Eyes. Why are this single trait and their Aspect power, things that had nothing to do with each other, suddenly connected?
    • The elves don't actually have Glowing Eyes in and on itself. It's a representation of their connection to magic, be it ember coloured eyes for druidic magic, blue for arcane magic or green for fel magic. The only elves who actually seem to have somewhat Glowing Eyes are Night Elves, who only have them in a manner cats do - their iris is reflective, as evidenced by the Night Elf from vanilla WoW cinematic. Eyes, glowing thanks to magic, are not restricted to elves either - human mages of great power have them while casting powerful magic. The same thing goes for Dragon Aspects.

    Golden Lotus 

  • Why do most of the factions with reputation dailies in Pandaria insist that you help out the Golden Lotus before they give you access to their dailies? The stated reason is they want to see that the Vale is defended from Mogu before you help them, and while I can see the August Celestials wanting to make sure the Vale is protected, I can't see the same applying to the Klaxxi or other groups.
    • Wait, do the klaxxi require you to have helped out the golden lotus? I have access to plenty of dailies in klaxxi'vess without having gained reputation with the golden lotus. As far as I've seen, the only factions that act like this are the august celestials and the shado-pan.
    • Upon a second glance, the Klaxxi are an exception. Still, it's quite a departure from most factions with their own agenda saying "Drop what you're doing and help us!" to saying "We could use your help, but we won't accept it, let alone let you buy our raid gear, until you help that other faction out enough."

    Sha of Doubt 

  • What exactly is the Sha of Doubt supposed to represent? Liu Flameheart seems to be consumed with the traditional definition of doubt in oneself. However, Wise Mari, a fellow boss of Temple of the Jade Serpent and victim of the Sha of Doubt, is consumed with suspicion of others. Additionally, different emotions spawn it in Jade Forest; Rell Nightwind seems to doubt in his cause when Sky Admiral Rogers guns down the surrendering Horde soldiers, while Nazgrim seems to feel despair after the Alliance outmaneuvers him and he fears Garrosh's punishment.
    • Doubt could be a lack of conviction or uncertainty. Liu just saw the Serpent Heart statue wrecked, so she is uncertain about the future of the Jade Serpent and her order. Rell begins to doubt the Alliance are the good guys when they kill surrendering soldiers, his certainty in the morals of his comrades and superiors shaken. Nazgrim loeses his faith in an inevitable Horde victory and Hellscream's revenge should he fail.

    Flying in Mogu'shan 

  • If it's possible to fly to the outer terrace of Mogu'shan Vaults- Gara'jal and the rest of the Zandalari trolls do so, as do you and Anduin at the end of the Operation: Shieldwall quest chain- why don't you try to do it for the raid? Icecrown Citadel had a similar problem, but it's indicated that the first two bosses and the trash up to the Gunship battle were essentially clearing your way to an extraction point.
    • If I recall correctly, the zandalari had to break through a very thick door to get to the second half of the raid. Since the goal of the raid was mostly to just explore the halls, it's possible that they decided to explore the accessible part of the vaults first and were planning to leave and fly up to see whether or not they could break into the second part. However, then the zandalari appeared and made that unnecesary.

    Sha emerging 

  • So the Sha have apparently existed on Pandaria for thousands of years, but only begin to emerge in force with the arrival of the Alliance/Horde conflict... Why is this? Sure, the Pandaren go out of their way to be peace-loving hippies, but they're about the only native race that does. The Mantid, Mogu, Yaungol etc. all have very war-oriented cultures and clash with each other and the Pandaren quite often. Why didn't any of these conflicts ever release the Sha?
    • The mantid are pretty emotionless about their brutal slaughtering. It's just part of their lifecycle, nothing personal. The mogu mostly kept to themselves, only becoming active in force after the horde and alliance arrived. The hozen don't really seem to wallow in negative emotions, plus they have their silly masks. The saurok are brutal, horrible creatures, but they're not really all that emotional about what they do. The yaungol and the virmen are a bit more tricky though. Considering the yaungol only really became an organised offensive after their sha infestation, it's possible they weren't as aggressive before. I have no idea about the virmen though.
    • Some of the quests imply that the yaungol are going to war because of the sha, which not only feed off conflict, but also encourage it.
    • When Pandaren fight initially, it's mostly in self-defence, or in training battles. Or the clearing out of mindless, dangerous beasts to make the land safe. Virmen are clearly too simple to awaken the Sha. Come on, they confuse carrots and turnips. They're really only a danger to farmers. As for the Mogu, the Pandaren don't really reciprocate that hatred the way Alliance and Horde love to get vengeance on each other, which automatically halves the negative feelings. The Hozen and Jinyu are the initial problem. They had always fought, but it was more of a disorganised rivalry. The war between the Horde and the Alliance brings to the land their shared attitude of "Slaughter everybody who's not us because we hate them." In a few hours, you inspire them into building an army. That's a big jolt. That's what gets the ball rolling.

    Naaru and Draenei 

  • Regarding the naaru and the draenei. Their basic quest is to unite various races in an "army of the light" to stand against the Burning Legion. Several notable characters believe that this is the way to go with fighting the legion. While I obviously have no problems with the "army" part of "army of light", the latter half strikes me as pretty unbelievable from an in-universe standpoint. The naaru have an atrocious record in their fight against the burning legion. In the thousands of years they've been at it, they haven't been able to take out a single leader amongst the burning legion. The mortals of Azeroth, in only a few decades, managed to take out five (archimonde, mannoroth, tichondrius, anatheron and azgalor) of the eight highest-ranking demons in the legion, as well as, at least temporarily, dealing with the spirit of Sargeras. Actually, the light in general has a pretty poor track record with beating demons. Archimonde was taken out by dragon blessings and druidic magic, Hakkar was taken out by a druid, Tichondrius and Magtheridon were taken out by fel-powered Illidan and mannoroth was taken out by the warrior Grom, probably with a little help of demon blood. Warriors wielding the light were involved in the defeat of a number of other demons, but never as the prime force behind their defeat. So basically, why hasn't called the naaru on their BS that this army should be an army of the light, and the fact that they should probably fight under guidance of the mortals of azeroth, rather than the other way around?
    • The naaru haven't been fighting the Legion, so they can't very well have a terrible track record with it. They've only been gathering soldiers to prepare for the fight.

    One Gender Race 

  • Has anyone noticed that the new races tend toward One-Gender Race? There don't seem to be any female grummles, jinyu, hozen, yaungol or sauroks, and apparently, the Twin Consorts are said to be the only female mogu in existence. The mantid have their Empress, but apart from Shek'zeer and her unseen successor, no other female mantid seem to exist.
    • It's a trend that started long, long before Mo P. Very few non-playable races get female models, and as subraces often have a unique male model but use a default female model (very noticeable with the trolls). IIRC, the only exceptions are naga, vrykul, quilboar and Centaur. As such, I wouldn't put too much stock in the lack of females amongst the grummles, jinyu, hozen, yaungol or sauroks. They probably exist, but simply don't have a model.
    • Actually a lot of classic races are pretty much a One-Gender Race too. Female Orc, dwarf, and male night elf players have been a protected species since 2005.
    • For some races, it could be assumed that there are females around but the players can't tell the difference. After all, Murlocs, Jinyu, and Saurok are sentient fish and lizards, they might not have noticeable sexual dimorphism.
    • Mantid are insectoid. It's very likely that they follow the same pattern as real life insects, where the majority of the races (drones) are actually sterile females. Males are rare and pretty much only serve the queen, and the fertile female is the queen. Some of the Klaxxi may be male. I seriously doubt anyone from a mammalian species could tell what gender a mantid was without close inspection (close enough to get your head ripped off).


  • Something that has bugged me for quite some time. Why does an Abomination look pretty similar to a Great Unclean One from Warhammer 40k?
    • Because Warcraft was originally supposed to be a Warhammer game.
    • People have said this for years, but barring quotes from Metzen, Samwise, or someone of that caliber about "Yeah, Warcraft was totally a Warhammer game with the serial numbers filed off", this one can be written off as bullshit.
    • They are on record. At least the Producer of the original game is. There was a faction within Blizzard that wanted it to be an official Warhammer game, but the other faction didn't want to lose creative control to the license holder. See here.

    Fall of Shan Bu 

  • After the Fall of Shan Bu quest, in which Taran Zhu tells the Alliance and Horde that their retaliating against the perceived injustices of the other faction only perpetuates the conflict, resulting in them putting aside their differences at least for the moment, why is it still possible to take on PVP quests for your faction on the island? And what about the fact that fighting Nalak involves a fair amount of Alliance-Horde competition (such as pulling him away until he despawns or killing PVP-flagged players fighting Nalak) that often undermines the goal of killing him, a powerful threat to both the Alliance and the Horde?
    • Gameplayand Story Segregation
    • To elaborate, the developers have more or less admitted they've written themselves into a corner. The faction divide and PvP are such an integral part of the game that they can't really sell the intended message in-game without drastically altering the core mechanics.
    • It doesn't really matter, since that whole speech was complete BS that just showcases how ignorant Taran Zhu really is about the Alliance/Horde conflict. After all, if what he says is true, where was the Alliance "reprisal" for Southshore? For Gilneas? For Andorhal? FOR THERAMORE?!? (That one obviously being the worst, since Jaina was going to retaliate, but ultimately didn't go through with it.)
    • Taran Zhu wasn't making a universal statement on the nature of Horde-Alliance relations; he's commenting on what he's seen and learned since they landed on the shores of Pandaria. He can't know about the times the Alliance didn't retaliate for a Horde assault that happened before he encountered any of them, and even if he did, it doesn't invalidate his message. As for why you still engage in PvP after the Fall of Shan Bu, although his speech was enough to defuse this one tense situation on the steps of the Throne of Thunder, it can't turn years of hostilities into peace overnight. It doesn't change the fact that the Kirin Tor are still keeping loads of innocent Blood Elves in its dungeon or that Garrosh abused Dalaran's neutrality to infiltrate Darnassus and steal the Divine Bell. Relations between the Horde and Alliance are still very cold, and spying and sabotage of the other faction's war effort will still happen.

    Siege of Orgrimmar 

  • Okay, so during the Siege of Orgrimmar Update, you fight the Mantid Klaxxi Paragons because they are loyal to Y'Shaarj, and Garrosh has his heart. Does killing the Klaxxi destroy your reputation with them? How does that work?
    • I got Hero of the Zandalari Tribe back before Cata, when it became a Feat of Strength. Since then, I've killed many Zandalari trolls, including killing Jin'rokh the Breaker, whose quests I did as a warrior, over two dozen times between all three difficulty settings. Perhaps fighting against the Klaxxi Paragons despite being Exalted with them is yet another case of getting rep with a faction, only for them to become your enemy(There's also how Blood Elves and other members of the Horde can get Exalted with the Kirin Tor in Wrath, before it allies with the Alliance); they acknowledge your efforts in wakening the Paragons and fighting the Empress' forces, but if you're going to try to destroy Y'Shaarj's heart, they will stop you by any means necessary; they remind you that Kil'ruk warned you that they'd be on Y'Shaarj's side and that you should join them.
    • Gameplay and Story Segregation. According to the narrative of the game world, the player can never go to Klaxxi'vess after killing the Paragons. Same idea with Dalaran. The Dalaran the players go to permanently exists about three years before the purge, just like how the Dark Portal is always just been opened and having to repel a demon counterattack.

    Yogg-Saron fight 

  • Why does Yogg-Saron help you in the First phase of HIS Boss fight? Sure, he's under the guise of Sarah, and his help isn't all too helpful, but he is helping you. Why?
    • It's possible that he's somehow Mode Locked as Sarah and needs your help to unlock it, and he knows full-well that adventurers wouldn't intentionally/directly harm an innocent woman. That or he's just insane, which in spite of being something of a cop-out is absolutely true.
    • And even if he weren't insane, he is an Old God. Who knows what reasons he has for doing things?
    • Keep in mind that the adds explode when they die and spawn when you so much as touch a cloud. It's possible that since the objective is to blow them up near him, where the clouds are fairly tightly gathered, he's hoping that you will blow yourselves up or get overwhelmed with adds.
  • To f*ck with your head, blur the lines, make you question your senses/reality, and confuse you. Remember that although as a player, control of your character is (generally) a binary thing, this is the bossfight that brought us the "Sanity" mechanic. In universe, it's not so clear-cut, and confusing the PCs over who their friends and foes are is clearly an element of Yogg-Saron's MO in this bossfight. Any conscious or subconscious element of "but she helped us" or confusion helps Saron drive your guys insane, to cloud and eventually overcome their ideals/sense of purpose - and realistically, the characters aren't PCs with a red ring conveniently telling them that yes, X is an enemy and has to die/be DPS'd now. The "shock" of her "betrayal"/The Reveal would probably be quite a hammer blow, and add quite a bit to Saron's attempts to drive you batshit. It's even possible that, without the benefit of Gameplay and Story Segregation, the PCs are meant to think they accidentally killed Sara, allowing Yogg-Saron to raise her as its minion. Or better yet, not know what to think when she starts talking as it. Saron's endgame, as much as an Eldritch Abomination being attacked by what they probably see as a bunch of flies can have one, is most likely the whole party driven batshit and either killing each other/the remaining "sane" ones or serving and worshipping it.
    • Also, Sara's "death" doesn't even seem to slow her down one bit. It's likely that, in-universe, Sara/Yogg-Saron just decided "you know what, fuck this, this ruse isn't working, they've figured it out, time to just eat them/crush them/drive them insane", and/or "this is taking too long, see above". Just because Yogg-Saron is invincible in gameplay until it pokes its head out, doesn't mean that in-universe the PCs wouldn't eventually realize "hey, fighting infinite Guardians is dumb, let's find Yogg-Saron/start shooting into the sludge/force it to come out". Or that Saron does have infinite Guardians. In-universe, giving them time to think with no mental or physical assault (or no changes to the nature of that assault) puts that time on their side. Its goal is to keep them off-balance.
    • And, BTW, all her "buffs" besides the last numerically do more harm than good. Oh yeah, and the wiki says she casts them on the enemies, too. More confusion. Is she on our side, or theirs? Who is "us"? Who is "them"? What is real? Yogg-Saron f'tagn-

    SI: 7 

  • At the end of the Lost Isles storyline for Goblin players, Thrall sends the player to Orgrimmar with an SI:7 Emblem and tells them to show it directly to Garrosh, who appears stunned by this presentation. Was that supposed to imply that Garrosh sold Thrall out to SI:7?
    • That is a possibility. In "The Shattering," after his conversation with Magatha, Garrosh, dissatisfied with the way Thrall does things, ponders taking matters into his own hands. It's possible that he was scheming to make sure that Thrall's absence was permanent.
    • It's not adequately explained in the game itself. However, as much as Garrosh may dislike Thrall, he absolutely hates the Alliance and would be unlikely to collaborate with it to get Thrall captured. More likely, as said in Wowhead comments, Thrall was hinting that someone in Garrosh's inner circle is a traitor who sold him out to the Alliance. And later, during the Twilight Highlands storyline, you find and expose said traitor.


  • The Quest "Once More with Eeling" is given when you first kill an eel in Kelp'thar forest. In it you decide to kill more eels because "nobody likes eels". It's pretty funny and all but, when you finish it you get a gold reward. Where did that gold come from?
    • There are many other cases of you getting paid a lot of money for your services, even when it wouldn't make sense to. For example, Gina Mudclaw sends you to collect debts from four people in Halfhill. If you pay for all of them (1 gold each), you get a reward that's over twice that. There are also many people who, while stranded in the wilderness or otherwise lost, may not have much money to pay you (for example, the Paragons you free in the Dread Wastes pay you for helping them, even before they get back to Klaxxi'vess, which is most likely where they keep their money). It's possible that there's some third party paying you for your quests.
    • Gameplay and Story Segregation. The game is going to reward you for completing quests even when there is no in-universe reason for those rewards.

    Boss size 

  • The size of humanoid bosses in general. It makes sense for the average Eldritch Abomination or denizen from a race of giants to tower over a raid group, but what about the average person? Made obvious with Garrosh in the Seige of Orgrimmar, as the other humanoid characters going off to fight him barely come up to his ankle, when he's basically supposed to be the size of Thrall, who isn't all that big.
    • Gameplay and Story Segregation. For a raid boss, 25 people have to be able to find and target his/her hitbox in a hurry, and watch the boss for certain actions (well, everyone not using DBM; we'll pretend for the sake of argument that that's a thing).
    • Word of God at one point indicated that aside from gameplay considerations, the size difference reflects the player characters' perception of the boss. Powerful individuals often seem larger than life because your mind associates power with size. Likewise, a boss is generally trying to kill you, so it's inherently big and scary. Since a boss can singlehandedly hold his/her own against an entire raid of players who are themselves heroes of the realm, they are very, very powerful and very, very intimidating. Consequently, your mind's eye scales up their size to reflect that.


  • What kind of magic do the Kor'kron Shadowmages in Siege of Orgrimmar practice, exactly? Garrosh clearly finds fel magic unacceptable, as evidenced by his executing all the warlocks, but they don't seem to be using arcane magic.
    • Their Mind Spike is an existing spell - one mainly cast by Shadow Priests. They're using shadow magic the same way Priests do, manifesting as darkness despite being almost exclusively mind-altering magic. Exactly where their Shadowflame spell (which is traditionally Warlock magic) comes from is anyone's guess.
    • Maybe it's a blend of Shadow magic and Dark Shamanism?
    • What makes it even stranger is that the spell is technically a weapon attack, if a Death Knight swipes it the power reads "Deal 200% Weapon damage as shadow" which means that the weapons those mages are 500K per swing to deal the 1 Million damage the spell does from them.

    New Forsaken loyalty 

  • In Cataclysm, Why are the freshly raised forsaken are loyal to Sylvanas.? Especially since most of those who were revived were Alliance's members or Scarlet Crusade's members.
    • What choice do they have, really? In the tutorial levels you deal with freshly raised NPCs who decide they don't want to join Sylvanas and the Forsaken. Things don't end well for them, because there's nobody else who regards them as anything but monsters to be destroyed on sight.
    • Originally in development it was thanks to the explicit use of mind control. Partway into development they decided that the Forsaken would claim to place freedom above all else, and so they removed mentions of mind control from the quests without changing instances where staunch foes would instantly become loyal Forsaken soldiers. Ask [CDev] had to Hand Wave it later, saying that corpses raised right after being horribly killed are not in their right minds for a while before the frenzy wears off.

    Siege of Niuzao Temple 

  • This might be a new thing, but sometimes, in Siege of Niuzao Temple, Commander Vo'jak will, instead of walking up the stairs to fight you (assuming, that is, you're not fighting the adds down below), stop, fly straight up and land on the ledge. Since he and the other mantid seem capable of flight, why didn't they do that from the beginning, and bypass all the Caustic Tar traps you set up for them? And why do they even need to make a bridge to Niuzao Temple if they can fly there?
    • Wings are not a universal feature of the mantid, but are only found in breeds bred specifically for aerial combat.

    Garrosh's sanity 

  • How did Garrosh retain his sanity after unearthing the Heart of Y'Shaarj? Servants of the Old Gods tend not to remain sane. And Garrosh was sane enough afterwards to warn his own father about Gul'dan and Mannoroth.
    • Reducing individuals to a state of cackling lunacy seems to be a conscious decision on the part of the Old Gods. Cho'gall (the first half of him anyway) and the mantid civilization (sans Sha) serve them and they seem like perfectly lucid people with their own opinions about what the world needs. It's just people that have to be broken before they obey that get this treatment—and for the moment Garrosh's actions aligned with Y'Shaarj's desires well enough.


  • In the RPG books, Kul Tiras has been stated to be lead by Daelin's second son, Tandred. However, the RPG books were declared non-canon, effectively leaving Kul Tiras without a leader. Jaina is already busy ruling on the Council of Six in Dalaran, and the people of Kul Tiras may not be happy that she had a hand in her father's death, so it'd be a bit hard for her to rule both. So who's in charge?
    • It's not like the developers of the game had no influence on the RPG books, and there were actually a few bits of information that were revealed in the RPG before they were shown in the game. Declaring them non-canon seems more like a knee-jerk reaction rather than anything there's actually a good reason for, and the writers for Warcraft have a history of being fickle (See Garrosh). Personally, I assume all information exclusive to the RPG is canon until something in the game contradicts it.

    Carrot on a stick 

  • There is, or more likely by now was, a trinket called "carrot on a stick." It increases your mount's running speed. Fine with mounts like horses and rams, but how does such a thing provide any motivation to a giant tiger, or even worse, a mechanical cassowary?
    • Or those huge Kalu'ak ship turtles?
    • Simple: the mechanical mounts are programmed to want to eat the carrot and run faster to get it. The tigers, being oversized kittens, just want to play with the dangly thing held out in front of their faces.
    • Think of “carrot on a stick” as being a metaphor. It’s not necessarily an actual carrot, it’s just something your mount wants. A dangly bit of meat for the tiger perhaps, or a can of oil for the mechanical cassowary, all could functionally be called a “carrot on a stick” as long as they serve the same purpose.

    Alternate Garrosh 

  • Where is Alternate Draenor Garrosh? Our timeline Garrosh came via time travel, but at the time of Gromm drkinking the blood of Mannoroth, Garrosh should already be born (It's how he avoided that fate, he was in a camp with other sick orcs). Shouldn't this Garrosh still be around now that the original is dead?
    • There is no Alternate Garrosh - it's one of the differences between the two worlds. In one of the short stories that introduced the setting, Garrosh talks to Alt Grom and is surprised to discover that Grom and his mate didn't have any children before she died.

    Battle for Shattrath 

  • In the battle for Shattrath, why didn't Yrel rez Maraad? She rezzed Durotan like 10 seconds later.
    • That wasn't a rez but a heal, possibly Lay On Hands since she fully healed him so easily.

    Nonhumans and Undeath 

  • Why on Azeroth are non-humans made immune to undeath during the Forsaken campaign against Gilneas? Even not counting Death Knights, most races have had undead members, but suddenly "They didn't send any humans because they'd be vulnerable to undeath". What.
    • They are not immune to undeath in general, just to Sylvanas' Val'kyrs. For some reason the Val'kyrs in Sylvanas' employ are only able to raise humans and not any other races, including humans with the worgen curse. Why they can't is never explained, one possible explanation being that they lost some of their power after the Lich King's death and now can only raise those who are close enough to their biology, like Vrykuls and their descendants humans.
    • This is elaborated on in Legion. The Lich King copied val'kyr from an existing vrykul system of afterlife. Their creator specifically designed them to manipulate the souls of vrykul, meaning that effectiveness on other races was not important to include, and it seems the Lich King could only remedy that by propping them up with his own power. As for human worgen, the form is a curse of nature magic, which conflicts with necromancy and can offer protection, though it does have limits.
    • This is actually less to do with the Val'kyr and more to do with the worgen. The worgen curse is a mutation of druidic magic, life magic, the antithesis of necromancy. Only worgen are immune to undead because the life energy inside them negates death magic.

    Warchief qualifications 

  • Thrall appoints Garrosh Warchief because his first pick, Saurfang Jr. is dead. Does this mean that the Horde is lead by an Orc regardless of any actual credentials? Because Garrosh's only qualification was being the son of a war hero and being one himself.
    • Thrall also considered Cairne (who he concluded was too old, and too "old-fashioned", which would result in unrest even greater than the unresolved problem of the Grimtotem) and Varok (who was also too old and was devastated by the death of his son). He mentions in passing that he wanted an orc in charge of the Horde, but he also wanted a popular one they could rally behind as a figurehead, and Garrosh, while disliked by many of the major characters, was liked by much of the Horde.
    • The theory that the Warchief must be an Orc was eventually Jossed by the ending of the Siege of Orgrimmar; Thrall's choice for the new Warchief was not an Orc, but Vol'jin of the Darkspear Tribe... though Garrosh's tenure may have soured the other Horde races on the prospect of a third consecutive orcish Warchief.

    Horde in Tanaris 

  • The Horde intro cinematic that kicks off Mists of Pandaria has a Horde general mentioning significant victories over the Alliance in Tol Barad and Tanaris. While Tol Barad is a rather active PVP battleground, Tanaris is a desert where the only force or settlement of any significance is the neutral Steamwheedle Cartel run by Goblins. So who are the Horde fighting?
    • Listen to the speech again. The general is talking about naval battles off the coast of Tanaris and Tol Barad. There were fleets of ships of both factions sailing around, and they just happened to encounter each other in those places.
    • May shift into Fridge Horror when you realize that Gadgetzan, Tanaris is where most of the civilian refugees from Theramore were sent...
    • In Siege of Orgrimmar, there are a number of Theramore Civillians tortured and/or dead in the Valley of Strength. Maybe that's what happened in Tanaris after all...

    Alliance and Garrosh 

  • So let's go get Garrosh cause he's a grave menace to the Alliance. Actually he has kinda done more damage to the Horde than he has done to the Alliance during his time in charge. It may benefit us to keep him in charge as their faction will remain divided, they will have less resources to throw against us, and will be unable to present a unified front against any attack on their territories. We all know Varian is not the brightest bulb, but seriously the Alliance has no one to suggest him that it may be better to let the Horde alone to deal with Garrosh as that can only benefit the Alliance?
    • This one is actually lampshaded by Vol'jin during the Barrens quest in Escalation. The Darkspear Trolls are in open revolt against Garrosh, that means the Alliance is in the unique position to help them with their revolution or let them to fight alone against a very pissed off Garrosh and his army who outnumbers them and they cannot escape from that fight, because the troll homeland is in peril, while we wait for them to soften each other up and then mop up the remnants. Yeah the latter is not even an option, because that would be unheroic and unfit of the honorable Alliance, and sadly during the fourth expansion, the Alliance has been Flanderized to be the generic fantasy good guys who have no room for moral ambiguity.
    • It probably helps that Vol'jin practically begs the Alliance players to help the rebellion when they suggest to him that they could allow Garrosh to mop up the rebellion by staying on the sidelines.
    • Well, 5.4 (the patch featuring the siege of Orgrimmar) is almost here, and from the previews, it is fairly clear that neither the Horde rebels nor the Alliance can take out Garrosh's Horde by themselves. The rebels will never tolerate the thought of the Alliance taking Orgrimmar without them, after the non-orcs were thrown out of the city. The Alliance also guessed (correctly) that despite the rebel activity in the Barrens, the rebels are not strong enough to take Orgrimmar without heavy losses, which Vol'jin declares to be unacceptable. To top it all off, Garrosh has somehow managed to wield the powers of the Sha while keeping his own mind intact. Non-action on part of the Alliance is not an option. Also, the Alliance has a score to settle with Garrosh over Theramore.

    Gul'dan at the Portal 

  • In Warlords of Draenor, why can't the player just kill Gul'dan while he was helpless to power down the Dark Portal instead of freeing him. No one would pass judgment and the Draenor conflict would be a little easier without a dangerous warlock hanging over everyone's heads.
    • Given the general nature of Warlock magic, it wouldn't be surprising if killing him made things at the time worse, such as overloading the Dark Portal on one side, the other, or both, and causing a ton of damage to either or both sides.

    Time clones 

  • Also in Warlords, the timeline that Garrosh returns to is 35 years in the past, easily within the lifetimes (assuming near-human life expectancy) of a good number of the Orcs in the Prime timeline Horde. Though not explored as yet, it is entirely possible that some older Orc veterans would run into their past selves, and might even be forced to fight and kill those past selves. Worse yet, younger Orcs might be put into the position of fighting their Alternate timeline parents.
    • Ditto for every important Broken Draenei who, in spite of their crucial roles in Draenei society, do not go through the Dark Portal to help. I bet Akama would have loved to go back in time to avenge the demons who ruined his life...
    • Basically, because Blizzard said "we don't want this to be seen as a time travel expansion". The reason noone meets their AU counterpart is because the AU counterparts of all the orcs and draenei that go there are "conveniently" either dead or never existed to begin with.
    • You do, however, meet an un-Broken Nobundo in Nagrand.
    • Horde players can also encounter a child Mankrik, and help his girlfriend in a Roaring Rampage of Revenge.

    An Alternate Legion? 
  • Is the Burning Legion we're fighting in Warlords of Draenor and Legion the same one we've fought in the past or an alternate version that's crossed over. On the one hand, everyone seems to treat it as the same Legion. On the other, we have the presence of demons who have been long assumed dead like Mannoroth, Archimonde, and even fairly minor ones like Jaraxxus (as seen in the Broken Shore). Have these Legionaires been resurrected or are they simply the alternates of the ones we fought already? If the latter, does that mean we're in for yet another rematch with Archimonde and the like?
    • According to Word of God, the Nether isn't just space, but an Eldritch Location where time and dimensions just don't work properly, allowing them to go into the alternate Draenor when summoned directly. Word of God also states that demons are genuinely immortal unless killed in the Twisting Nether, so it's not unlikely we won't see Archimonde for a third time before we're done.
    • Well, even Tichondrius is coming back, so yeah, demons don't die for good unless killed in the Twisting Nether.

    How was it their fault? 
  • So in Legion, the main source of tension/conflict between the Alliance and the Horde this time is that the Alliance claims that the Horde, the Forsaken in particular, left Varian to die. is this in any way what happened? Gul'Dan and the Legion had both factions completely at their mercy and were overwhelming them. Vol'Jin had already been mortally wounded and poisoned, and both sides were already being forced to retreat. Finally, Varian chose to sacrifice himself to buy the Alliance fleet time to escape. How is what happened at the Broken Shore in any way the Horde's fault??
    • The Alliance didn't see any of that. All they saw was Sylvanas leaving them to die. They had no idea about Vol'jin or what was happening up on the ridge. All they see is the archers leaving and it looks like the Sylvanas and, by extension, the Horde is willing to leave them to die in order to settle some kind of pre-existing grudge. It's Blizzard's attempt to justify the Faction conflict this expansion when it doesn't really make any sense.
      • The fact that class/order halls are in Legion is Blizzard's way of acknowledging that the faction conflict in Legion indeed doesn't make any sense. But, PvP must still exist somehow...
    • Wars have been restarted for worse reasons in real life. Even if the Alliance does learn exactly what happened, there is a reasonable argument that the Horde should have stayed and fought, or at least signaled the Alliance that the day was lost. Running away without explanation is, at best, a poor tactical choice.
    • The Horde doesn't exactly have a great history of working alongside the Alliance either. During the Northrend campaign Horde forces bombed Alliance fleets and attacked Alliance troops, while they were engaged with Scourge forces. Coupled with that this is the same Sylvanas who murdered Greymane's son, while gloating about it, and you shouldn't be too surprised why she hasn't been given the benefit of the doubt.
    • Varian saw the mass of demons marching up the ridge, but the cinematic doesn't indicate that Genn or anyone else saw it and thus the only person who could guess what happened to cause Sylvanas to call the retreat also died at the Broken Shore before he could tell anyone. On top of that, Genn is basically the supreme military figure in the Alliance at the Broken Isles since Anduin hasn't inherited Varian's position as High King of the Alliance, and Genn is hardly a voice of reason where the Horde and in particular Sylvanas are concerned because of aforementioned murdered son and the fact that as far as we know, Gilneas is still under Forsaken occupation. Plus, in the cinematic, Genn explicitly says "I knew it! I knew we couldn't trust [Sylvanas]!" So Genn's influence may well be driving up tensions where if, say, Velen or Tyrande were in charge, things might be calmer and the Alliance more open to working with the Horde against the Legion.

     The Elements and Thrall (spoilers) 

  • So, I was kind of happy at first that Thrall was being written out, but the more I though the more I feel like it screams plot hole. Sure the idea is there, the elements aren't happy that Thrall killed Garrosh by using them to cheat at what is supposed to be a fair contest of strength, however, two this about this really bother me:
    • 1. Why would the elements care? They were terrified of Garrosh when he first appeared in a short story, they were as freaked out about him as they were about Gul'dan. Why would they backlash against Thrall when killing Garrosh was something they really, really wanted to happen?
      • From what I see, it's the elements putting him in the naughty corner. In Legion proper, Thrall apparently has to re-learn how to become a shaman, right from the basics.
    • And 2. How on earth would Azeroth's elements figure out what Thrall did on an entirely separate planet?
      • The elements just know?
      • Maybe word travels. When the Dark Portal linked Azeroth with the new Draenor, the home elementals heard the outrage of the neighbors and decided that Thrall needed to be punished.
  • It's implied that the elements have nothing to do with it and that Thrall is just falling into a depression and doubting himself, deeming himself unworthy of using their power. He's putting two and two together and getting the wrong answer from it. How much of this is true and Blizzard just forgetting the elements have always given their power out to nutjobs in the past who asked nicely enough is up for debate though.

    Suramar Dining 
  • In Suramar, the Nightborne had been living under the magical barrier. According to Thalyssra it blocked out the sun and their food ran out so they had to get Arcwine. Yet there are trees in Suramar and a zoo, with animals that need different nourishment. So why can't the Nightborne maintain food under the barrier besides Arcwine if they can grow trees, or why aren't the zoo animals dependent on Arcwine?
    • I think what they ran out was space to grow food. The dome-enclosed Suramar doesn't have much space for farming, especially to feed any significant population, as one can see easily. Fruits received from the trees, when made into Arcwine, can feed a lot more people per unit. Also, the impression I got from that questline is that the Menagerie is a rather recent thing, after the demons arrived and the barrier fell.

     Life after Death 

  • I was wondering, how does the afterlife work in World of Warcraft? Do all races go to the same afterlives when they die or are there afterlifes for different races? For example, I know that the Light is the main religion of humanity (it used to be Catholicism and the Light was God in Warcraft 2, which was downplayed in Warcraft 3 and retconned in World of Warcraft) and paladins and priests can become "one with the Light". Also, how can necromancers access the afterlife to get people's souls to make someone undead? Do the dragons and titans have an afterlife, especially since the remaining part of the Titans' souls resides in the keepers, such as Freya having the last of Eonar's essence
    • Its never really been set in stone and as is the norm with Warcraft lore it's inconsistent. With that being said, come Legion it does seem like the default place that people end up upon death is somewhere called the Shadowlands, a sort of Purgatory mimic of Azeroth. It's from where that people get plucked from if they're raised into undeath, but it's an inevitably imperfect procedure which is why undead (whether mindless, Death Knight or Forsaken) are such a grim lot. We know there's also a Void of sort which serves as a kind of Hell for people like Arthas and, when she gets there, Sylvanas (although how much of that is true and how much is the Val'kyr pulling the wool over Sylvanas' eyes is up for debate).
    • The exception to this seems to be if you have some sort of benevolent (or not) deity snatch up your soul. Bradenbrand had the Naaru make him one with the Light, Maraad seems to be content getting housed in Auchindoun, Bwonsamdi apparently gets first dibs on Trolls who pay homage to him, etc.
    • The general idea seems to be that unless your soul is "claimed" by one power or another, you're destined for the Shadowlands. Some of these forces that can bind souls to them are the Twisting Nether, the Emerald Dream, the (Holy) Light, Elune, or if you're really unlucky, you're soul will be stolen by some malevolent force to be used as fuel.

     Hypocritical Maiev 
  • In Legion Maiev frees the Demon Hunters claiming "I will do anything to save Azeroth." Yet when Tyrande freed Illidan, Maiev was furious, even leaving Tyrande to die when she was swept downriver, though Tyrande survived. Why is it good for Maiev to free the Illidari but not for Tyrande to free Illidan? Will Maiev forgive Tyrande or be a hypocrite? On that note, why does part of the fanbase revile Tyrande for freeing Illidan (especially since Illidan has become a well-loved character among the fanbase, which he never would've gotten the chance to do in-universe if Tyrande hadn't freed him) yet Maiev gets a pass for freeing the Illidari?
    • Different circumstances. Maiev's always had a deep seeded hatred for Illidan, and didn't believe the Betrayer could be any help and would only make the current conflict worse for everyone. In Legion however, the Burning Legion was literally knocking down her doorstep. Her back was to the wall and so she chose to cross the Godzilla Threshold by recruiting some much needed backup with a talent against the demons.
    • But Godzilla Threshold was the same reason Tyrande freed Illidan. Also, the Demon Hunters she frees are the most trusted servants of said person she deeply hates. Does that mean Maiev would forgive Tyrande for freeing Illidan? On that note, will the fanbase stop holding it against Tyrande?
      • Tyrande killed dozens of Maiev's watchers in the process which goes a long way to explaining why she was so furious and opted to let her die later. In Legion she releases the Demon Hunter's on her terms. The Legion was literally inside the Vault of the Wardens and their defences were useless because of Cordana. If she left the Demon Hunters in their cells either they'd get gutted helplessly at best, or at worst, they'd be converted to serve the Legion (and as we see in the dungeon later on many have been). There was no circumstance where keeping them locked up would've worked out. In WC 3 the Vault is still secure and Maiev isn't personally present, nor is the situation nearly as extreme. For all we know, Maiev might have released him if she had been there personally and the Legion was knocking at Illidan's cell.

     Not My Warchief 
  • Why did everyone else in the Horde accept Sylvanas as Warchief without so much as a word of protest from anyone in-universe? Even Lor'themar, who was her harshest critic there and has called her out before, makes no protest. Many in the Horde have seen Sylvanas' crimes firsthand (such as the Death Knight Kolitra who was imprisoned so she could brainwash him after he showed mercy and chivalry to Alliance forces and a fellow Death Knight, as well as the Orcs who saw Sylvanas use the Scourge Plague and lived to tell about it). At the very least one would think that ideas of what to do with Sylvanas after the Burning Legion (and maybe the Old Gods) is dealt with would appear in the game, but there's no sign of it.
    • The Watsonian answer is probably that they are honoring Vol'jin's last command and/or believe that, despite her numerous flaws, she does have merit as a military leader and the middle of a massive Burning Legion invasion is not the time to be arguing over who gets to be in charge. The Doylist answer is that Blizzard is trying to quietly slip all of her past transgressions under the rug rather than actually address them in any meaningful way.

     P Cs are Stronger? 
  • Why do PC Demon Hunters seem to have absolutely no problem controlling the dark power, even though Illidan himself and every Demon Hunter villain seems to have succumbed to it? Worgen, Death Knight, and Forsaken PCs have at least a few quests to address this sort of thing, but it seems no problem with Player Characters for an odd reason.
    • It's stated during the Demon Hunter campaign that they are the strongest Demon Hunters bar Illidan and thus probably have more control. Given that Illidan consumed the Skull of Gul'dan which was an incredibly powerful demonic artifact, it's likely that he simply took in too much demonic power to contain. After all, unlike other Demon Hunters, Illidan appears to be permanently in his Metamorphosis form. Furthermore, most of the Demon Hunter villains didn't so much lose control as they lost sight of their purpose (defeating the Burning Legion at all costs) and joined the Legion in exchange for more power. Most Demon Hunters don't join the Legion or lose control of their demons. While the Player Character is never shown struggling, one Demon Hunter in the starting area dies due to loss of control and another in Aszuna is shown renewing his tattoos to keep himself from losing control.
    • Or maybe Blizzard realizes it wouldn't be very fun to play Demon Hunters if players had to regularly undergo maintenance to keep from dying/turning evil.
      • This. Acceptable Breaks from Reality - technically, if I were playing a warlock, I should be suspect to the asme thing as well - and people who aren't undead (and even then) should mistrust me on sight. It's not like I have to blend in with society and disguise myself as an arcane mage or a shadow priest (who do not seem to have to be given this kind of scrutiny, see below), I can just walk around with demons in tow wearing obvious "Evil" warlock gear and the guards and civilians don't react to it. The same goes for Death Knights - When I walk through Orgrimmar or Stormwind, people throw rotten vegetables at me and scream, but when I hand a piece of paper to Thrall or Varian, everyone is mysteriously okay with it - realistically, there should have been some people who would see a Death Knight enter and then try to kill them.
      • Pre-Cataclysm, there actually was one NPC who would attack a Death Knight on sight... namely the level 12 Tauren Gamon. Of course, at this level, he posed practically no threat to the player, who'd be at least Level 57. This was the result of a low-level rogue quest, which required the player to pickpocket Gamon. As friendly NPCs couldn't be pickpocketed, he had to be coded as "neutral". This resulted in him being at "Hostile" with Death Knight players who had not yet turned in the quest. However, in the lead-up to Cataclysm, he was patched to become a Level 85 Elite (technically harder than a raid boss at this point, as players were still capped at 80 and skull boss enemies are considered to be three levels above the player).

     A shadow moves in the dark... 
  • In World of Warcraft Warlocks and Demon Hunters need to keep themselves and their powers in check lorewise to prevent corruption. However, Shadow Priests study the Void, which is just as much, if not more, corrupting than fel (one examples is the troll priest Zan'do). The questions are do Shadow Priests need to check themselves to not become evil? Should (or are) Shadow Priests be given the same scrutiny in-universe as Warlocks? Especially since, as of Legion, Shadow Priest NPC's are running around carrying an evil, manipulative (and, to some, also seductive) Old God dagger known for killing or abandoning people when it decides it doesn't need them.
    • It would make sense seeing as one of the most prominent cults that use the Void are The Twilight's Hammer. Ever since they came back, Shadow Priests would presumably get a lot more scrutiny since the world nearly broke apart the last time that particular cult resurfaced. Not to mention the fact the cult's origins lie precisely at the feet of a few men and women who got a little carried away with understanding the Void. All the wars where the Old Gods have some part to play might be encouraging paranoia over a few elements of society actually studying this stuff.

    The fourth Horseman 
  • So the Lich King never planned on making Tirion the final Horseman, with the whole attack on Light's Hope Chapel being a ploy to 'kill' Darion Mograine and re-resurrect him as the fourth Horseman. My question is: why did Bolvar pull such an unnecessarily complex plan? Unlike Nazgrim, Thoras and Sally, Darion was already undead, and was already a high-profile death knight. What's the point on having him die to resurrect him again? Couldn't he just take the position without dying? Couldn't he be convinced he really was the best choice for the leader of the Four Horsemen without offing him first?
    • It's possible that being killed and raised more than once saps the will and makes the undead more beholden to whoever reanimated them. Note how Anub'arak as a Crypt Lord seemed to despise the Lich King and his dying words as a dungeon boss were "(inarticulate roar) never thought I'd be free of him..." Then he comes back as a raid boss and his last words are "Master, I have failed you..." It could have been a move to make the Fourth Horseman more malleable to Bolvar's will as the player character is named the Death Knight because Darion doesn't want to be the new Lich King's champion. Since it's heavily implied Bolvar has changed after becoming the Lich King it's possible he's making in roads to secure new agents; he outright says in the class mount quest if the player character Death Knight dies he'll happily take control of the Knights of the Ebon Blade.
    • Bolvar wanted somebody to lead the other Horsemen. The PC is now Deathlord and has greater responsibilities and whilst Darion fits the bill of having leadership experience, the other three Horsemen are relative newcomers to the Ebon Blade who may be willing to follow the chain of command but require an exceptional individual they'd be willing to have lead them (other than the PC). By having Darion sacrifice himself for their sake it solidifies their loyalty in him as a leader. Is it a stupid and convoluted plan? Absolutely, but that's Warcraft writing. On the other hand it's possible Bolvar genuinely did want Tirion - if we could get him - and Darion was the consolation prize. What's more absurd is how EVERY SINGLE DEATH KNIGHT forgot that Light's Hope is impossible to invade because of the spirits of the blessed under there who defeated the Lich King the last two times he tried this shit (both of which Darion was present for).

    Where's Wrathion? 
  • Since his introduction in Mist of Pandaria, Wrathion was working to prepare Azeroth against the Burning Legion. Not only did Wrathion try to built up the Alliance and the Horde, he also switched sides to the Alliance to try and annex the Horde when Garrosh went mad with power. When that didn't work Wrathion worked with Kairoz to break Garrosh out of the trial and send him back in time to form the Iron Horde. Despite this, when the Burning Legion is storming Azeroth again in greater numbers than ever before there is no sign of Wrathion. Where is he and why isn't he playing a more active role in fighting the Legion when they're actually here, though he spent over a year preparing for their arrival?
    • Did you talk with Chromie?
    • I've started the quest chain for Chromie and encountered Wrathion. This doesn't explain why he's been so low-key despite being determined to deal with the Burning Legion in the last two expansions.
    • After what he did in Mists of Pandaria and Warlords of Draenor, he probably has too many enemies among the heroic factions to work with us directly. He may still be working against the Legion off on his own or trying to manipulate us from behind the scenes (in fact, in Beta he was Spiritwalker Ebonhorn, not Ebyssian) but can't risk showing his face for fear of reprisal for his past actions.

    Dark Iron Dwarves 
  • In Classic to the end of Wrath of the Lich King, Dark Iron Dwarves were sort of a Neutral Evil faction faction, with a few that were more neutral (Thorium Brotherhood was neutral to horde and alliance iirc) yet when Cataclysm rolled around, Moira Bronzebeard came forth and acted as the envoy from the Dark Iron dwarves. As of Warlords of Draenor, more and more Dark Iron Dwarves have essentially joined the alliance, and you see a lot more of them acting as NPCs. Why can't players make a Dark Iron Dwarf character by this point?
    • Same reason they can't make brown or grey orcs, high elves, forest or sand trolls, taunka, elven Forsaken or worgen, or Broken draenei. Because Blizzard needs to spend time and effort to create those options, which they haven't yet, and they're not going to do just one when there's so many others who have been waiting just as long.
    • As of the Battle for Azeroth expansion, Dark Iron Dwarfs are an unlockable allied race, complete with their own animations, racials and emotes.

    Sargeras' Logic 
  • So, according to WoWPedia, Sargeras came across a world being corrupted by the Old Gods and was about to make a Dark Titan from that World-Soul, so he killed the entire world before they could be allowed to be corrupted and form a Dark Titan. However, he was then berated by his fellow Titans for just murdering a planet. Therefore, Sargeras decided to take matters into his own hands by allying with demons in order to kill all of the Titans. He wants to save the Titans from killing any Titan that refuses to be be corrupted by him...How does this make ANY sense?!? Shouldn't he be devoting the Burning Legion to fight the Old Gods, THE ONES CAUSING THAT TYPE OF CORRUPTION HE HATES IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?
    • Sargeras does see the Void (which the Old Gods originate from) as the ultimate evil of the universe. His goal is to create a universe free of the void, which he is planning to do by basically destroying everything and starting over. The other Titans thought this was too extreme and tried to stop him. He corrupted the ones he could and then slaughtered the rest. Sargeras' corruption is not the same as the void's; the Void Lords want to enslave the universe and basically turn it into their playground of madness and eternal suffering, he is a Well-Intentioned Extremist who wants to stop that from happening by any means necessary. If the Void Lords managed to corrupt a Titan (which is what the Old Gods are trying to do to Azeroth) they would be able to use that Titan to enter our reality. So, to prevent that from happening, Sargeras goes around strangling baby Titans in their cribs. It's very extreme, but there is logic to it -Minimize the damage the void can do by destroying everything it can potentially use.

    Everybody Hates Farondis? 
  • I'm not sure I understand the in-game explanation. In the game Farondis planned a rebellion against Azshara and the Legion. When she found out she cursed Farondis and his city to undeath... and Farondis' people blame him? Why? They oppose Azshara as well didn't they think she'd retaliate? Why do they shun him so much? Furthermore, if they hate him so much, why don't they physically attack him? The fact that they're dead doesn't stop them from interacting with each other and the physical world (fighting the Naga, making drinks... there are ghosts PINNED TO A WALL BY PHYSICAL SPEARS).
    • Their hatred is probably due to needing someone to blame and he's the one most available. As for attacking him, it's heavily implied that while they can interact with the world, they're incapable of actually dying, hence the surprise when Garohod creates a cocktail that kills him.
    • That is possible, though it doesn't explain why they blame Farondis. It's implied in the book found in one of the quests that they know Azshara cursed them, so shouldn't they blame Azshara instead of Farondis?
      • They didn't know how far off the deep end Azshara had gone until she confronted Farondis a second time. Remember that even when the Legion was pouring down, most Kaldorei still didn't think Azshara was responsible because she was so beloved. Farondis knew, but the rest didn't and they got dragged down with him still believing Azshara was their benevolent ruler.

    Light-based Illidan is a bad thing? 
  • In the "Rejection of the Gift" scenario, Illidan rejects being infused with the Light and destroys Xe'ra. Pre-launch peeks and lore indicate the end-game is that after defeating the titan Argus, Sargeras will appear and the rest of the Pantheon, along with Illidan, will be keeping Sargeras trapped at the Throne of the Pantheon. So my questions are, how would Illidan swapping Fel for the Light stop that? And why do so many fans have a problem with "Light Illidan"? It's a redemption arc, he can finally do something not controversial, and the problems people had with Xe'ra before this was mainly that she whitewashed Illidan and called us evil for killing him. Illidan even killed probably the one being outside his Illidari who patted him on the back and said "good job, Illidan." If Illidan became Light-infused you could still have Illidan be keeping Sargeras imprisoned. The whole situation has a whiff of fans liking it because they didn't like Xe'ra whitewashing Illidan, either it resonates with fans who are anti-religious and/or think that True Art Is Angsty. What do you think?
    • It's less Pala-Illidan is bad and more, he declines but Xe'ra tries to force him anyway. While various NPCs are outraged at what he did, others like Velen are horrified that Xe'ra would deny someone their own freedom and force her will upon them. It's meant to be a moment that marks Xe'ra as not so different from Sargeras or the Void Lords. Another idea is that Illidan accepts his actions and the sacrifices he's made to get where he is and refuses to let someone else negate them by undoing it all (Xe'ra implied she'd restore Illidan's eyes and definitely would undo his demonic transformation).
    • Think of the sequence as Xe'ra trying to force a potentially beneficial but unnecessary medical procedure upon Illidan, an action which would be a gross violation of any modern code of medical ethics.

    Netherlight Crucible missing piece 
The Netherlight Crucible relies on the essence of a powerful being of the Light and a powerful one of the Void to empower artifacts. What was the plan to power it if Illidan hadn't killed Xe'ra and the player harvested the remnants of her light?
  • It's possible that they could've asked Xe'ra to imbue it with some of her power willingly, if Illidan hadn't killed her.

    What does the Crown of the Triumvirate do? 
The Crown of the Triumvirate is hailed as a game-changer, yet all it does when utilized is give the Vindicaar a cosmetic makeover and repair some cosmetic damage. It's power is not a problem since it didn't work without Velen's piece, and Kil'jaeden and Archimonde didn't bother destroying theirs, so it doesn't seem to be a problem. What exactly did the crown do?
  • It upgraded the cannons so the Vindicaar could penetrate Antorus' defences. Without it, the Legion could just sit pretty behind those walls forever.

    No sending reinforcements to Argus? 
There is a portal connecting the Vindicaar to Azeroth (Dalaran to be precise), so why don't they keep funneling in reinforcements from Azeroth to Argus? (A few Stonewrought Guardians and some Grotesque Abominations would put the hurt on the Burning Legion). So why can't we sometimes send extra forces to the Vindicaar to take the fight to the demons on Argus?
  • There's still fighting on Azeroth and invading Argus didn't stop their operations. The Alliance and Horde don't really have anybody left to send post-Broken Shore and we see Legion ships still deploying to Azeroth as we quest through Argus.
  • Another possibility is that, to put it simply, you are the reinforcements.

    Burning Legion Remnants? 
  • After the defeat of Argus the Unmaker, the imprisonment of Sargeras and the deaths of many members of the Burning Legion - including Kil'jaeden and Archimonde, is the threat really over? Two of its highest-ranking demons (Tichondruis and Mannoroth) weren't killed in the Twisting Nether, so they could return. Not to mention the fact that they and other surviving demons could do their dimension-hopping trick with a backup body (like Archimonde did at the end of Warlords). On that note, is it possible a remnant of the Burning Legion could return as a future threat? Maybe even still try to carry out Sargeras' plan?
    • It's possible that Sargeras' plan simply can't be carried out without someone on par with a Titan or maybe Archimonde and Kil'jaeden. Furthermore, not only was Sargeras stated to be a bigger threat than the rest of the Burning Legion combined (making his imprisonment a crippling strike against the Legion) but Argus was stated as being the source of the Burning Legion's infinite army. Like with the Scourge, the Burning Legion isn't gone, but their top leaders are gone, greatly restricting their ability to actnote , and their numbers are now constantly dwindling. They're still a threat but no longer a massive world ending threat.

    Anti Horde and Pro Alliance Writing? 
  • Is it just me or has Blizzard been hating on the Horde openly since Mist of Pandaria. Like for example, you get to Siege Orgrimmar, the Warchief is the final boss. Along with the Horde doing a whole lot of evil shit in the expansion. Then the whole Iron Horde thing the next expansion. They were not the ultimate Villains of it, but might as well have been at launch. Then comes Legion where unless you're a Horde player they make it out as if the Horde just abandoned the Alliance at Broken Shore and that the Alliance is right to blame them for Varian's death. Then there is the whole Banshee Queen becoming Warchief and Thrall losing his powers while giving Anduin a massive power boost. Then the ending of Legion cinematic while the Alliance is all fun cheers and speeches the Horde one seems to be pretty lacking in comparison as if the animators got lazy. Finally the burning of Teldrassil are we going to ever be allowed to play that or is Blizzard just going to say that the Horde did it and keep the Siege of Undercity as the only thing we have. Because from the way it looks Blizzard is trying to alienate at least half of their fanbase by saying they are playing the villains for no apparent reason. Does anyone have any idea as to why this is?
    • Besides "Keeping the war in Warcraft" reasoning Blizzard loves to use for passing the Conflict Ball around, it's likely also to avoid the claims of Horde bias from previous expansions. Don't really think you can count the Iron Horde though given that they were a different group. If you'd claimed it was Orcs being written as villains, that'd be more accurate. Thrall losing his powers seems to have just been a way to write him out of Legion (much like Jaina leaving the Kirin Tor then just disappearing), with Word of God saying it wasn't because the elements abandoned him so much as Thrall lost faith in himself.
      • Horde-bias in previous expansions? When?
    • ...Since Mists of Pandaria? They've been pretty anti-horde and Pro-alliance since long before Mists of Pandaria. Ever notice that despite Alliance-aligned races having a lot of openly villainous characters, they're pretty much never actually working with the Alliance? Meanwhile the Horde is openly burning down trees and kicking puppies because the warchief says so. Meanwhile the Horde ends up losing characters left and right (Vol'jin, Cairne, Garrosh) and barely any mention is made after their deaths because they're just gone. Meanwhile, when they go kill alliance characters off... only Varian and Benedictus stuck. (Bolvar is the new Lich King. Magni? Came right back even more important than ever.) And Benedictus was so unimportant to the lore you'd be forgiven if you thought he was made up for Cataclysm. (Seriously I've met alliance players who didn't know who this guy was because he never set foot outside of the Cathedral of Light, and he didn't exist until this game like Bolvar did.) The alliance routinely gets Plot Armor whereas the horde ends up dying and are expected to stay dead, even if they treat some deaths (Vol'jin) as a tragedy the same way Varian's was.

    Did we need Illidan? 
How necessary was Illidan really do defeating the Burning Legion. In the "Legion" expansion, the story is pushed that Illidan has a vital role to play. Given his controversial actions and the fact that there was an available alternative to everything he did, was Illidan really needed? For a quick list of facts that may back this up;
  • While Illidan did form the Illidari, they seemed to do fine without his guidance thanks to the player character. The one time they did get in touch with him, he pretty much just said “I’m fine, (insert player character’s name here) is in charge, keep at it.”
  • In lore the Illidari destroyed the Nathrezeim homeworld, but this isn’t shown to have any effect in the story. Several Nathrezeim are still encountered, including Detheroc and their leader Tichondrius – both of whom were killed in Warcraft 3 but had regenerated thanks to Sargeras’ ace in the hole.
  • Illidan wasn’t needed to kill Gul’dan at the Nighthold; the player characters had nearly killed him, and Khadgar was there too. Illidan technically just pulled a Kill Steal on Gul’dan, as shown in the cinematic.
  • When placing a Pillar of Creation, the players already have Maiev and Khagar there to help defeat the demons, so * Illidan’s presence in the Cathedral of Eternal Night dungeon was questionable.
  • He opened the planet-sized portal to Argus, letting people know about the Burning Legion, despite the fact that there were already plenty of indicators (the deaths of Voljin and Varian, warnings from various faction leaders and demonic invasions across the world).
  • They didn’t need Illidan’s portal to get to Argus, since Velen had resolved to head to Argus after the raid on the Exodar and his encounter with Rakeesh. Velen statement to repair the Exodar because they’re “going home” infers Velen knew how to get there. Even then, he built the Vindicaar which could make the journey and he could contact the Xenedar, and by extension the Army of the Light.
  • The Titans didn’t ask him to help imprison Sargeras and they were able to pull Sargeras off Azeroth to the Seat of the Pantheon.

    Eredar with wings? 
  • I'm trying to figure out why some Eredar in the Legion have wings and some don't. I don't think it's gender-based because, apart from Kil'jaeden who is male, the only Eredar with wings are female. While it could be power-based, Archimonde was second to Kil'jaeden among the Eredar in power, and yet he didn't have wings. What determines whether or not Eredar in the Burning Legion have wings?

    Saurfang and Sylvanas 
  • In Wrath, Saurfang threatened to kill Garrosh if he led the Horde down a similar path to the one Grom followed; a threat Saurfang attempted to follow through on in Mists of Pandaria. Yet in the lead-up to Battle for Azeroth, he never makes any such threat to Sylvanas, even after she'd committed a war crime right in front of him that made Nathanos, of all people, hesitate. Saurfang even struck an underhanded blow against Malfurion while he was fighting one-on-one with Sylvanas, even though he later refused to kill Malfurion because it was "a dishonourable blow". Why didn't Saurfang try to overthrow or kill Sylvanas or let Malfurion kill her?

  • In-Universe, just how big is Zandalar? I know this is a Vestigial Empire (and several real life examples of them are about the size of some European microstates), but it's surprisingly small and... so sparsely populated. With about 40%-50% of the island dedicated to either a Penal Colony or is considered list due to the blood trolls, and of the remaining part most of it is dominated by a temple and a giant pyramid, how do they keep running? Does everyone live in mostly one city, or are we to assume there are towns we don't see due to Space Compression.
    • Gameplay and Story Segregation. The entire geography in the game is significantly scaled down in order to make the world easier to navigate and run on an online server. For example, a village in the Gnomish starting zone is composed of two carts and a couple tents.

     AoE attacks missing 
  • How can AoE attacks miss? I always thought it was the point of using Area-of-Effect attacks to not be able to miss at all. After all, how can mobs evade something like "Consecration", "Fan of Knives" or "Rain of Fire" without moving out of these AoE's range/area?
    • For in-universe reasons, a lot of AoE work in a way thats "hit a large area" rather than "hit everything in the area". For example, Rain of Fire wouldn't cover every inch of the ground with fireballs so there'd be a slight chance of not getting hit despite being in the area.

     Saurfang punching you in the face 
  • So in the Saurfang quest, if you choose to help him, he says it'll need to look like you put up a fight but he overwhelmed you and escaped... Why? Your orders, per the previous quest, were to do nothing until Sylvanas decided on how to proceed. This was a lie of course, to get the Player Character out of the way while Lyana assassinated him, but so far as Sylvanas knows the player wasn't even there. Rather than telling her you fought Saurfang and risking her exposing the lie (which she seems to be suspicious of) wouldn't it have been better to tell her you successfully tracked Saurfang through Redridge, returned to Orgrimmar on Lyana's orders and don't know why she's disappeared?
    • Presumably just so Sylvanas has a reason to suspect the player character of treason.

     Imprisoning Talanji and Zul 
  • Why exactly where Talanji and Zul imprisoned in the Stormwind Stockades? The Zandalari weren't allies of the Horde yet, so why not try to ally with them instead? Not only would the Horde lack the navy to counter the Alliance, but they'd be low on soldiers as well.
    • Talanji was actually already on her way to speak with the Horde when the Alliance captured her. Also, there's a lot of bad blood between the Zandalari and the Alliance already. From the Alliance's perspective, the Zandalari have spent the last few years launching invasions around the world, so they may have just assumed they were too violent to be reasoned with. Trying to force Rastakhan to stay out of the conflict by holding his daughter hostage may have seemed like a safer bet.
    • And as for Zul, after what he tried to pull off in Zul'Gurub, Zul'Aman and especially the Isle of Thunder, it would be incredibly stupid of the Alliance not to capture and lock him up if they got the chance. Hell, even Rokhan admits that freeing Zul is a horrible idea once he sees him.

     What color was the Black Dragonflight at first? 
  • They are associated with Earth so maybe brown? Or maybe they were always black and just happened to be the color which turned evil?
    • They've always been black.

     Arthas in the Maw 
  • This is kind of a philosophical question with no one right answer but I want to ask anyway: assuming the place where Sylvanas saw Arthas in Edge Of Night was really The Maw (which seems likely) isn't it kind of unfair he was sent there considering he was turned evil against his will? (Frostmourne stole his soul and forcibly turned him evil). The same applies to a lesser degree to Sylvanas as well (she was basically turned evil by all the horrific things she's been through). This has bothered me ever since I first read Edge Of Night
    • It's worth noting that even though Arthas wasn't fully gone until he grabbed Frostmourne, he had done some pretty morally grey (if not black) decisions prior to this. He culled Stratholme before it was infested with scourge. It was pretty much a matter of time, but the townsfolk were still human when he started slaying them out. He burned the ships he and his men arrived to Northrend on because he was obsessed with revenge against Mal'ganis. Then when he found Frostmourne's location, he was warned against taking it by the entity guarding it AND Muradin, at which point, he willingly took Frostmourne despite being warned of the price AND the fact that the sword was cursed saying he would "give anything or pay any price" to save his people. The whole point of Arthas was to be a Well-Intentioned Extremist. Sure, maybe he wasn't evil before taking Frostmourne, but by the time he took it, he wasn't exactly good anymore either.
    • Two counters to this. First, Frostmourne and the Helm were crafted in the Maw, so there is a possibility that beings marked by these items will go straight to the Maw. Second, the Maw isn't just a prison for the most evil, it's a prison for beings who represent a threat to the Shadowlands as a whole. It's possible that the Arbiter judged both Arthas and Sylvanas as having been so twisted by Frostmourne that they could be a threat, either directly or due to their connection to the Jailer.
    • "Afterlives: Bastion" answer as to why. Devos and Uther collected Arthas' soul before it could reach the Arbiter and they cast him into the Maw personally.

     Sylvanas, the Banshee Queen 
  • So Sylvanas doesn't really care about the Horde, that's all good and dandy... But she seems to have forgotten that she is the Banshee Queen. You know, Banshees, the things that can possess people and make them subservient to your will. If she's so against the Rebellion of the Horde, and she's really only causing chaos for her own purposes, wouldn't she want to turn the people she'd find the most likely to become rebel-rousers, get her most loyal Banshees to possess them, and make them subservient to her even when the truth is revealed? That plan would seem like the best option for her in general, and she has done this before (specifically in WarCraft III).
    • In Warcraft 3, Sylvanas had her banshees possess forces that were either too stupid to question new orders (Ogres) or wouldn't care much who they fought for (Bandits). The rest had to be possessed individually. Most likely, others would notice that certain people are acting oddly and question things more. And even Sylvanas doesn't have enough banshees to possess everyone.
    • It should be noted that Banshees in WC 3 couldn't possess heroes or creeps above a certain level. Presumably, there are some beings that are too powerful or strong-willed for Banshees to take control of, and this would include most of the Horde's command structure.

  • I know this topic is mentioned further up in the "Death Knight communication" folder, but I'll ask this regardless... Why isn't there a simple statement to the effect of "Everyone on Azeroth is taught to understand Common and Orcish in both written and spoken form, but both sides consider it a point of pride to never speak/write the other faction's language?" Furthermore, considering Alliance and Horde relations alternate between tenuous peace and warfare, being able to read plans captured from the enemy may be a good idea.
    • Story And Game Play Segregation. Everyone can read and speak Common to some level (and presumably Orcish), which is also why quests to capture enemy plans don't have a follow up to bring said plans to a translator. It's also why races that should have never encountered either language can be understood just fine. The language barrier is just for players.

    Mounts in the Maw 
  • I get why living mounts can't be used in what is essentially Hell. However, why does this restriction also apply to mounts that don't live, such as a mage's class mount, a tailor's flying carpets or the mounts built by an engineer? What is the in-universe explanation there?
    • The same reason Jaina's teleportation spells were limited to short hops. There are a great deal of powers at play to ensure nothing can escape the Maw save through the way stone created by the Eternal Ones.

    Torghast and the Eye of the Jailer 
  • If Torghast is the Jailer's home base, how come he seemingly doesn't observe anything done by the Adventurers in there? After all, the Eye of the Jailer doesn't increase no matter how many layers are done by the player.

    What's The Point Of The Alliance And The Horde Fighting Anymore? 
  • Sargeras has been imprisoned. The planet of Azeroth is dying. And outside forces keep antagonizing both factions. So why is there still a conflict? I understand that Sylvanas perpetuated the disagreements over Azerite, but after everything they've been through, shouldn't relations between the two sides be smoothing over as they work together? I figure the prejudices won't end overnight, but what's the point of keeping things so divided and contested?
    • "Keeping the War in Warcraft". Blizzard insists the two factions have to always be at each other's throats. So any time they start working together, there'll be an incident or a warmongerer to insure that the peace doesn't last. Hence why Garrosh was made a leader in Northrend and immediately became a warmonger at the same time Varian Wrynn returned and had a hate-boner for the Horde.. Or why when the Horde retreated from the Broken Shore, Sylvanas's archers calmly walked away from the cliff so it'd look like they were abandoning the Alliance rather than fleeing for their lives.
    • As of the end of Battle for Azeroth and the beginning of Shadowlands, that long war seems to be finally over.

    If The Pandaren Can Choose A Side, Why Can't Other Races? 
  • What's the in-universe reason for people to not play, for example, a Worgen too bloodthirsty and in touch with their feral side to work in the Alliance, or a Forsaken that used to be an Alliance soldier, and still wants to serve the Alliance in death, or a Blood Elf that thinks themselves as still a High Elf, or a Human that just likes what the Horde has going for it? If the real world can have people give up one faction or idealogy for another, such as Moors fighting alongside Christians against fellow Muslims, why not Azeroth?
    • Racism. No one in the Horde would ever trust a human running around doing random quests, and no one in the Alliance would ever trust a Forsaken doing the same. Obviously it's possible for individuals to cross the divide; we see a number of NPCs who are neutral or even on the opposite of their racial side. But that would be a big headache for gameplay after the racial factions have already been established, so they're kept segregated. The Pandaren are the exception because their people are new and neutral in-universe.

    What even is the point of the Maw? 
  • it seems like beings can die in the shadowlands and suffer cessation of existence, so if you deem a soul truly irredeemable why not just kill them? if the Maw was just an eternal prison i could understand it being a thing about being humane, allowing them to continue to exist and have some sort of (after)life while putting them somewhere they can’t hurt anyone, but if you’re going to torture them forever its clearly not intended as a mercy, executing them all has the added bonus of letting you drain them dry of every last drop of anima and also not wasting any resources are needless torture.
    • The only souls we see destroyed are either extinguished in a very long, painful and demanding process or are destroyed by mortals. So it’s quite conceivable that this destruction was not possible until Sylvanas tore the veil. As for how the process could be well-established upon the arrival of mortals, time flows strangely in the Shadowlands.
    • The Maw was originally created to hold only the Jailer; all the rest stems from his and Sylvanas' actions. As of early 2022, the Arbiter has stated that no souls will be sent there. Sylvanas doesn't count; she was cast alive into the Maw to perform a lengthy but not eternal penance.

     Why did Sylvanas go directly to the Maw when she died in Edge Of Night? 
  • According to wowpedia: "Normally, few souls are sent directly here, as even the most evil and prideful beings in existence are given a last chance to atone for their sins in Revendreth." Shouldn't she have gotten a chance to go to Revendreth instead? This was before the afterlife stopped working, after all.
    • She's Forsaken, which means she was raised as undead by the power of the Helm of Domination, i.e. an artifact infused with the Jailer's power, and she threw herself off of Icecrown Citadel. Zovaal managed to grab her because he wanted a powerful mortal agent and freaking her out with the Maw was a way to scare her into doing stuff that would benefit him.