History Headscratchers / WalkingWith

*** More on Bakker's "lair sites;" what was significant about them is that all the shed teeth were from Allosaurus while the Morrison has several large predators (Ceratosaurus, Torvosaurus, crocodiles). The sites fell into two groups in his study; those with a mix of teeth from several different predators and those with just Allosaurus teeth. Using Komodo Dragons for comparison doesn't quite work, as there are no other large predators native to the Komodo Dragon's range that could give a "non-nest site" signal.

* In Sea Monsters, I wonder why we didn't get to see the Liopleurodon attacking something, in addition to (or instead of) eating the corpse? (It was definitely a cool scene, but it did seem odd after watching a few times that we didn't get to see the pliosaurs attempt to attack something like the other predators did.) (Also, completely unrelated, but I my spell checker suggests "Eurodollar" for "liopleurodon" for some reason.

* In Sea Monsters, I wonder why we didn't get to see the Liopleurodon attacking something, in addition to (or instead of) eating the corpse? (It was definitely a cool scene, but it did seem odd after watching a few times that we didn't get to see the pliosaurs attempt to attack something like the other predators did.) (Also, completely unrelated, but I my spell checker suggests "Eurodollar" for "liopleurodon" for some reason.)

*** But... some of them are in fact very colorful and the ones that should be feathered ''are'' feathered (with the exception of ''Gorgosaurus'', which had been designed before large fuzzy tyrannosaurs were discovered). Colors are for the most part guesswork anyway, so there wasn't anything really forcing the designers to make them too "out there".

* The dinosaurs in the new 3D movie seem a bit too glum looking and none have feathers. ScienceMarchesOn so what's the deal? Haven't recent scientists considered the dinosaurs to be brightly toned?

* The dinosaurs in the new 3D movie seem a bit too glum looking and none have feathers. ScienceMarchesOn so what's the deal?

*** From Carrano ''et al.'' (2012): "Perhaps the best known tetanuran specimen from Australia is an astragalus recovered from the Wonthaggi Formation at Eagle’s Nest, Victoria (NMV P150070) that was originally referred to ''Allosaurus'' sp. (Molnar ''et al.'' 1981). Since its description, its taxonomic identity has been much debated (Welles 1983; Molnar ''et al.'' 1985; Rich 1996; Chure 1998) and it was most recently assigned to ''Australovenator'' sp. (Hocknull ''et al.'' 2009) and Abelisauroidea (Agnolin ''et al.'' 2010). Despite the arguments of Agnolin ''et al.'' (2010), we agree that this specimen pertains to a megaraptoran allosauroid, but given its temporal and geographical distance from the type material of ''Australovenator'', and its resemblance to the astragalus of ''Fukuiraptor'', we cannot exclude that it belongs to a distinct member of this clade (Benson ''et al.'' 2010)."

*** From Carrano ''et al.'' (2012): "Perhaps the best known tetanuran specimen from Australia is an astragalus recovered from the Wonthaggi Formation at Eagle’s Nest, Victoria (NMV P150070) that was originally referred to ''Allosaurus'' sp. (Molnar et al. 1981). Since its description, its taxonomic identity has been much debated (Welles 1983; Molnar et al. 1985; Rich 1996; Chure 1998) and it was most recently assigned to ''Australovenator'' sp. (Hocknull et al. 2009) and Abelisauroidea (Agnolin et al. 2010). Despite the arguments of Agnolin. et al. (2010), we agree that this specimen pertains to a megaraptoran allosauroid, but given its temporal and geographical distance from the type material of ''Australovenator'', and its resemblance to the astragalus of ''Fukuiraptor'', we cannot exclude that it belongs to a distinct member of this clade (Benson et al. 2010)."

** In the companion book they say there is no firm evidence for feathers on ''Velociraptor'' yet. Ironically ScienceMarchesOn and it has been 100% confirmed that it did have feathers from direct evidence, while ''Mononykus'' still has no direct evidence (it's still pretty certain ''Mononykus'' had feathers anyhow).

*** From Carrano ''et al.'' (2012): "Perhaps the best known tetanuran specimen from Australia is an astragalus recovered from the Wonthaggi Formation at Eagle’s Nest, Victoria (NMV P150070) that was originally referred to ''Allosaurus'' sp. (Molnar et al. 1981). Since its description, its taxonomic identity has been much debated (Welles 1983; Molnar et al. 1985; Rich 1996; Chure 1998) and it was most recently assigned to Australovenator sp. (Hocknull et al. 2009) and Abelisauroidea (Agnolin et al. 2010). Despite the arguments of Agnolin. et al. (2010), we agree that this specimen pertains to a megaraptoran allosauroid, but given its temporal and geographical distance from the type material of ''Australovenator'', and its resemblance to the astragalus of ''Fukuiraptor'', we cannot exclude that it belongs to a distinct member of this clade (Benson et al. 2010)."

*** From Carrano ''et al.'' (2012): "Perhaps the best known tetanuran specimen from Australia is an astragalus recovered from the Wonthaggi Formation at Eagle’s Nest, Victoria (NMV P150070) that was originally referred to ''Allosaurus'' sp. (Molnar et al. 1981). Since its description, its taxonomic iden- tity has been much debated (Welles 1983; Molnar et al. 1985; Rich 1996; Chure 1998) and it was most recently assigned to Australovenator sp. (Hocknull et al. 2009) and Abelisauroidea (Agnolin et al. 2010). Despite the argu- ments of Agnolin. et al. (2010), we agree that this speci- men pertains to a megaraptoran allosauroid, but given its temporal and geographical distance from the type material of ''Australovenator'', and its resemblance to the astragalus of ''Fukuiraptor'', we cannot exclude that it belongs to a distinct member of this clade (Benson et al. 2010)."

*** I don't know how good the "polar allosaurid" material is, but chances are it's ''Australovenator'' (or some other neovenatorid).

*** Original Headscratcher-er here: A quick Googling session (including clicking through the "Look Inside" feature of a couple of dino books) resulted in the following revelations: allosaur nests have been found to contain a huge number of teeth, from adults and juveniles alike, as well as fragmentary remains of sauropods, occasionally with tiny allosaur teeth still being stuck into them. Bob Bakker, who found the site, claims that this is evidence that parents brought food for their chicks for at least a short while, and there even was a TV documentary about the uncovering of the nesting site, but it's so old, it apparently sank into oblivion. What's interesting is that the second part of the Big Al special also discusses allosaur nests, but it doesn't mention group-nesting, and the babies are shown leaving the nest right after they hatch. And essentially this is what lead to BBC's shows being proclaimed to be as bad as ''Series/JurassicFightClub'' or ''Series/ClashOfTheDinosaurs''.

*** That would be faulty logic in case they portrayed the ''Velociraptor'' accurately as a small [[StockDinosaursTrueDinosaurs troodont]]-like predator and not a large dromaeosaurid (such as the ''JurassicPark'' [[InNameOnly version of]] ''[[StockDinosaursTrueDinosaurs Deinonychus]]'' or the show's already existing versions of the ''[[StockDinosaursTrueDinosaurs Utahraptor]]'' or ''[[UsefulNotes/PrehistoricLifeBirdLikeTheropods Dromaeosaurus]]'', seen in the latter half of the main series).

*** Original Headscratcher-er here: A quick Googling session (including clicking through the "Look Inside" feature of a couple of dino books) resulted in the following revelations: allosaur nests have been found to contain a huge number of teeth, from adults and juveniles alike, as well as fragmentary remains of sauropods, occasionally with tiny allosaur teeth still being stuck into them. Bob Bakker, who found the site, claims that this is evidence that parents brought food for their chicks for at least a short while, and there even was a TV documentary about the uncovering of the nesting site, but it's so old, it apparently sank into oblivion. What's interesting is that the second part of the Big Al special also discusses allosaur nests, but it doesn't mention group-nesting, and the babies are shown leaving the nest right after they hatch. And essentially this is what lead to BBC's shows being proclaimed to be as bad as ''JurassicFightClub'' or ''Series/ClashOfTheDinosaurs''.

*** Original Headscratcher-er here: A quick Googling session (including clicking through the "Look Inside" feature of a couple of dino books) resulted in the following revelations: allosaur nests have been found to contain a huge number of teeth, from adults and juveniles alike, as well as fragmentary remains of sauropods, occasionally with tiny allosaur teeth still being stuck into them. Bob Bakker, who found the site, claims that this is evidence that parents brought food for their chicks for at least a short while, and there even was a TV documentary about the uncovering of the nesting site, but it's so old, it apparently sank into oblivion. What's interesting is that the second part of the Big Al special also discusses allosaur nests, but it doesn't mention group-nesting, and the babies are shown leaving the nest right after they hatch. And essentially this is what lead to BBC's shows being proclaimed to be as bad as ''JurassicFightClub'' or ''ClashOfTheDinosaurs''.

** Could be ''Rapator'' or ''Walgettosuchus'' (if they're not synonymous).

* Lets try to sort this out -- is [[http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/life/Australovenator the BBC website]] (and a load of other sources) doing right by retro-classifying the polar allosaur as an ''Australovenator'', or should we still refrain from attempting to figure out what dinosaur it actually was?

*** Original Headscratcher-er here: A quick Googling session (including clicking through the "Look Inside" feature of a couple of dino books) resulted in the following revelations: allosaur nests have been found to contain a huge number of teeth, from adults and juveniles alike, as well as fragmentary remains of sauropods, occasionally with tiny allosaur teeth still being stuck into them. Bob Bakker, who found the site, claims that this is evidence that parents brought food for their chicks for at least a short while, and there even was a TV documentary about the uncovering of the nesting site, but it's so old, it apparently sank into oblivion. What's interesting is that the second part of the Big Al special also discusses allosaur nests, but it doesn't mention group-nesting, and the babies are shown leaving the nest right after they hatch. And essentially this is what lead to BBC's shows being proclaimed to be as bad as ''JurassicFightClub'' or ''ClashOfTheDinosaurs''.

*** Maybe they thought scaly raptors are cooler?

*** That would be faulty logic in case they portrayed the ''Velociraptor'' accurately as a small [[StockDinosaursTrueDinosaurs troodont]]-like predator and not a large dromaeosaurid (such as the ''JurassicPark'' [[InNameOnly version of]] [[StockDinosaursTrueDinosaurs Deinonychus]] or the show's already existing versions of the ''[[StockDinosaursTrueDinosaurs Utahraptor]]'' or ''[[UsefulNotes/PrehistoricLifeBirdLikeTheropods Dromaeosaurus]]'', seen in the latter half of the main series).

*** That would be faulty logic in case they portrayed the ''Velociraptor'' accurately as a small [[StockDinosaursTrueDinosaurs Troodon]]-like predator and not a large dromaeosaurid (such as the ''JurassicPark'' [[InNameOnly version of]] [[StockDinosaursTrueDinosaurs Deinonychus]] or the show's already existing versions of the ''[[StockDinosaursTrueDinosaurs Utahraptor]]'' or ''[[UsefulNotes/PrehistoricLifeBirdLikeTheropods Dromaeosaurus]]'', seen in the latter half of the main series).

*** That would be faulty logic in case they portrayed the ''Velociraptor'' accurately as a small [[StockDinosaursTrueDinosaurs Troodon]]-like predator and not a large dromaeosaurid (such as the ''JurassicPark'' [[InNameOnly version of]] [[StockDinosaursTrueDinosaurs Deinonychus]] or the show's already existing versions of the ''[[StockDinosaursTrueDinosaurs Utahraptor]]'' or ''[[UsefulNotesPrehistoricLifeBirdlikeTheropods Dromaeosaurus]]'', seen in the latter half of the main series).
** They even gave ''[[UsefulNotesPrehistoricLifeOtherSmallTheropods Ornitholestes]]'' some speculative (though extremely sparse) plumage in the original ''Walking with Dinosaurs'', but they still left dromaeosaurids naked. Go figure.

*** That would be faulty logic in case they portrayed the ''Velociraptor'' accurately as a small [[StockDinosaursTrueDinosaurs Troodon]]-like predator and not a large dromaeosaurid (such as the ''JurassicPark'' [[InNameOnly version of [[StockDinosaursTrueDinosaurs Deinonychus]] or the show's already existing versions of the ''[[StockDinosaursTrueDinosaurs Utahraptor]]'' or ''[[UsefulNotesPrehistoricLifeBirdlikeTheropods Dromaeosaurus]]'', seen in the latter half of the main series).

* Something about ''Chased by Dinosaurs'' has always bothered [[{{Tropers/Spinosegnosaurus77}} me]]: Why is ''Mononykus'' feathered when ''Velociraptor'' gets to run around naked? If they were going to go through the trouble of giving one creature feathers...

*** That would be faulty logic in case they portrayed the ''Velociraptor'' accurately as a small Troodon-like predator and not a large dromaeosaurid (such as the ''JurassicPark'' [[InNameOnly version of Deinonychus]] or the show's already existing versions of the ''Utahraptor'' or ''Dromaeosaurus'', seen in the latter half of the main series).
** They even gave ''Ornitholestes'' some speculative (though extremely sparse) plumage in the original ''Walking with Dinosaurs'', but they still left dromaeosaurids naked. Go figure.
* One aspect of the special ''The Ballad of Big Al'' that has caused some angry bitching on a forum I visit (and this lead to a whole lot of BBC hating) is the depiction of ''Allosaurus'' nesting habits. There seems to be plenty of fossil evidence that suggests the youngsters stayed in their nest until they were strong enough to find food for themselves, up to which point the mother brought them food. I have also heard that they may have nested in groups, but I haven't found any solid info about this on the net yet. However this had all supposedly been known before the special was made. So what gives? Does the way the episode shows allosaurs nesting have any evidence to back it up?