Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Headscratchers / TheGoodPlace

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

[[folder: Jason's teen years]]
In "Employee of the Bearimy", Michael jokingly tells Jason "If we get out of here alive, remind me to re-erase your teen years." What does he mean by ''re''-erase? The only memories of Jason's Michael has ever erased were his death and his numerous afterlife reboots, both of which had nothing to do with his teen years.

[[/folder]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** ''Franchise/TheLordOfTheRings'' is viewed as a nerdy interest, and most people regard pop culture themed weddings as being kind of weird and cringy. It's a very common joke in the show to reveal actions that are simply treated as annoying in real-life are considered to be objective sins by the points system. This is the same universe where watching ''Series/TheBachelor'' gets you damned to hell for all of eternity.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

[[folder:"Lord of the Rings" themed wedding]]
* When Michael and the head accountant are discussing the weight of the points regarding a couple, the accountant notes the destination themed wedding is bad enough, but instantly gives up hope on them after learning it's a Lord of the Rings themed wdding. So why is a "Lord of the Rings" themed wedding bad enough to instantly doom the couple into the Bad Place?

[[/folder]]

Added: 504

Changed: 19

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In the conceit of the good place, it states that not only is person A a high ranking good person but so is Person B, who is their soulmate. but what if, as experienced by Chidi and the 2 Elinors, a good person's soulmate doesn't actually qualify to be in the good place either by just missing the bar, or because they weren't actually deserving? or, are soulmates basically just roulette spins after death?

to:

* In the conceit of the good place, it states that not only is person A a high ranking good person but so is Person B, who is their soulmate. but what if, as experienced by Chidi and the 2 Elinors, Eleanors, a good person's soulmate doesn't actually qualify to be in the good place Good Place either by just missing the bar, or because they weren't actually deserving? or, are soulmates basically just roulette spins after death?



* It's shown that the train tracks take you to "The Good Place" "The Bad Place" and "The Medium Place" so why cant the denizens just use them to walk out? I get that distance is a factor, making the train necessary, but the tracks would seem to still exist. if Film/StandByMe taught me anything is they can be easily traversed. Just watch out for trolleys.

to:

* It's shown that the train tracks take you to "The Good Place" "The Bad Place" and "The Medium Place" so why cant the denizens just use them to walk out? I get that distance is a factor, making the train necessary, but the tracks would seem to still exist. if If Film/StandByMe taught me anything is they can be easily traversed. Just watch out for trolleys.



* If her friends included Kevin Costner, Elon Musk, Taylor Swift, Ben Affleck, and Matt Damon, wouldn't Tahani be somewhat well-known to some of the people she's encountering on Earth or the good place? Maybe not Chidi but Chidi's S3 girlfriend, Eleanor and possibly Jason might have known her from tabloid magazines.

to:

* If her friends included Kevin Costner, Elon Musk, Taylor Swift, Ben Affleck, and Matt Damon, wouldn't Tahani be somewhat well-known to some of the people she's encountering on Earth or the good place? Good Place? Maybe not Chidi but Chidi's S3 girlfriend, Eleanor and possibly Jason might have known her from tabloid magazines.



** Yes he retains his memories, we get a montage of him gleefully exploring the ordinary things of mankind. No, he doesn't get his powers back when he dies. They explicitly say he is going into the system as a human. He'll one day die and go to the testing, and then onto the good place and eventually the forest door just like any other human. That is part of the selling point to the judge to allow it.

to:

** Yes he retains his memories, we get a montage of him gleefully exploring the ordinary things of mankind. No, he doesn't get his powers back when he dies. They explicitly say he is going into the system as a human. He'll one day die and go to the testing, and then onto the good place Good Place and eventually the forest door just like any other human. That is part of the selling point to the judge Judge to allow it.


Added DiffLines:

** As a way to make it clear that, for some people, it will take a long time before they're ready to reach the Good Place. That had kind of been shown with Tahani and Kamilah's parents, as it took them about 3,000 Bearimies to pass their tests, but actually seeing someone be on version number 15,000 has a different effect. No one is irredeemable, but the tests aren't just a free pass into Heaven. Someone who was a fundamentally terrible person will have to spend eons before they're ready to move on.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** It's not a very well-run place. Also, [[BadIsGoodAndGoodIsBad who's to say being Employee of the Bearimy is a good thing down there]]?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** It's possible the bitterness is from the fact that they weren't able to be a proper good place. They ''did'' want to keep Mindy either way - it's just that the reason isn't what it seemed at first (ie. she realizes Mindy wouldn't have been happy in the Good Place because nobody is, but she's still bitter about that fact because it shows a very personal failing on the part of Good Place architects.)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Different acts have different point values. It's possible that them deserting Brent simply wasn't a significant point loss because you're not ''required'' to risk your life for someone who has been a jerk to you - they'd have gotten points if they saved him, sure, but the point system doesn't require that you be a hero. (A bigger question is why Brent gained so many points for a mere realization and half-apology, when usually the point system seems to care a lot more about actions and their impact.)

Added: 583

Changed: 583

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** In all likeliness, the only reason Mindy was treated differently was because the peculiarities of her case meant that it ended up before the judge, resulting in a bespoke solution that didn't really care about the established rules. The bigger question is why ''nobody'' else in the past 500 years has gotten their case before the judge (or, if they have, every single one of them except Mindy failed to get an argument that would put them in the good place.) ** Another thing to consider: The Good Place is deeply flawed itself and the architects there probably do not ''want'' any more people arriving because of that. So they've been avoiding challenges to the Judge, and when whatever freak sequence of events resulted in Mindy's getting there (possibly even a Bad Place architect realizing taking it to the judge would annoy the Good Place architects), they deliberately pushed for a bespoke Medium Place solution rather than pushing to put Mindy in the Good Place, which they realized would actually be ''worse'' for her in the long run.

to:

** In all likeliness, the only reason Mindy was treated differently was because the peculiarities of her case meant that it ended up before the judge, resulting in a bespoke solution that didn't really care about the established rules. The bigger question is why ''nobody'' else in the past 500 years has gotten their case before the judge (or, if they have, every single one of them except Mindy failed to get an argument that would put them in the good place.) )
** Another thing to consider: The Good Place is deeply flawed itself and the architects there probably do not ''want'' any more people arriving because of that. So they've been avoiding challenges to the Judge, and when whatever freak sequence of events resulted in Mindy's getting there (possibly even a Bad Place architect realizing taking it to the judge would annoy the Good Place architects), they deliberately pushed for a bespoke Medium Place solution rather than pushing to put Mindy in the Good Place, which they realized would actually be ''worse'' for her in the long run.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** In all likeliness, the only reason Mindy was treated differently was because the peculiarities of her case meant that it ended up before the judge, resulting in a bespoke solution that didn't really care about the established rules. The bigger question is why ''nobody'' else in the past 500 years has gotten their case before the judge (or, if they have, every single one of them except Mindy failed to get an argument that would put them in the good place.) ** Another thing to consider: The Good Place is deeply flawed itself and the architects there probably do not ''want'' any more people arriving because of that. So they've been avoiding challenges to the Judge, and when whatever freak sequence of events resulted in Mindy's getting there (possibly even a Bad Place architect realizing taking it to the judge would annoy the Good Place architects), they deliberately pushed for a bespoke Medium Place solution rather than pushing to put Mindy in the Good Place, which they realized would actually be ''worse'' for her in the long run.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** In addition to what others have said - when he is apprehending Michael, Shawn intends to use a Bad Janet as muscle. So it seems likely that that's part of their purpose; if the Bad Place didn't have them then Good Janets could just do whatever they please there (they wouldn't, most of the time, but it's clear why the Bad Place wouldn't trust this, on account of being, well, bad.) The fact that they do generally listen to higher-ups like Shawn also helps keep Hell's hierarchy in line.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None




to:

\n** This is part of the whole point of the show; the gradual realisation that the current system is grotesquely unfair precisely ''because'' it fails to account for nuances like possible mental disorders and how they might affect human behaviour, and thus human ethics, without the human in question even being aware of it. It is made abundantly clear that someone like Chidi, who clearly attempts to live as ethical a life as is possible, still being deemed worthy of eternal damnation and torture simply because his indecisiveness hurt or frustrated other people is an injustice.

Added: 524

Changed: 757

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** "Ethical consumption" is an ''invention'' of late-stage capitalism. It's only because late-stage capitalism has introduced so many hidden ethical dilemmas in our shopping habits that it's become a necessary thing to question at all. There was "no way of buying potatoes ethically" in 1321 because it simply wasn't a ''factor'' in 1321; most people grew their own food or sourced it from a farm which was a day's walk away at most, so most of the hidden ethical dilemmas we fret over today regarding food supply weren't a concern at all. Your clothes weren't purchased cheaply at high-street retailers which almost certainly used sweatshop labour; you likely knew the local weaver, would buy the fabrics at the local market, and made the clothes yourself.
** In any case, as noted above, this is missing the wood for the trees. The whole point is that the system is simplistic, overly prescriptive, lacking nuance, and reduces human morality to a points system which is in no way equipped to handle it. The problem is not that modern life is more or less ethical than, say, medieval life; it's that the system is unfairly rigged from the start because it overlooks any kind of nuance, motivation or sincerity in how someone tries to live an ethical life and reduces it to numbers.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Up To Eleven is a defunct trope


* It's obvious that Doug's motivations are similar to Tahani's, albeit taken UpToEleven. Tahani only did good actions because of the fame it would bring her. In a similar way, Doug makes it clear that he only started doing good actions because of an epiphany he had about the afterlife, which made him aware that doing said actions would bring him to the Good Place. Both only tried to be "good" people because they expected being rewarded for it, not because they felt it was the right thing to do, which means that their motivations are corrupt. Why Michael didn't considered all that about Doug Forcett? Why nobody (Janet, Shawn, the Accountant, the Judge) pointed this out to Michael? It's even more jarring considering that Michael personally selected Tahani to Neighborhood 12358W because her pretension of being "good" would play along with the other characters issues.

to:

* It's obvious that Doug's motivations are similar to Tahani's, albeit taken UpToEleven.up to eleven. Tahani only did good actions because of the fame it would bring her. In a similar way, Doug makes it clear that he only started doing good actions because of an epiphany he had about the afterlife, which made him aware that doing said actions would bring him to the Good Place. Both only tried to be "good" people because they expected being rewarded for it, not because they felt it was the right thing to do, which means that their motivations are corrupt. Why Michael didn't considered all that about Doug Forcett? Why nobody (Janet, Shawn, the Accountant, the Judge) pointed this out to Michael? It's even more jarring considering that Michael personally selected Tahani to Neighborhood 12358W because her pretension of being "good" would play along with the other characters issues.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The fact that the entire afterlife system is fundamentally flawed later becomes a major plot point. Yeah, it ''is'' unfair and awful that 99.99% of people who have ever existed get tortured for all eternity. That was why they overhauled that with the new system.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


[[folder: Erasing memories of deaths]]
* Why would Michael make the humans forget how they died? The point is to torture them. Wouldn't knowing they died in an embarrassing, stupid way be torture? And the answer can't be that Michael wanted to have a backup plan in case Eleanor confessed, because her actually improving and eventually confessing was the one thing he never expected to happen. That was always the biggest wrench in his plan, and he never would have done anything to prepare for that in the first attempt as he never considered that a possibility.

[[/folder]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Why would Michael want to make the humans forget how they died? The point is to torture them. Wouldn't knowing they died in an embarrassing, stupid way be torture? And the answer can't be that Michael wanted to have a backup plan in case Eleanor confessed, because her actually improving and eventually confessing was the one thing he never expected to happen. That was always the biggest wrench in his plan, and he never would have done anything to prepare for that in the first attempt as he never considered that a possibility.

to:

* Why would Michael want to make the humans forget how they died? The point is to torture them. Wouldn't knowing they died in an embarrassing, stupid way be torture? And the answer can't be that Michael wanted to have a backup plan in case Eleanor confessed, because her actually improving and eventually confessing was the one thing he never expected to happen. That was always the biggest wrench in his plan, and he never would have done anything to prepare for that in the first attempt as he never considered that a possibility.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:


[[folder: Erasing memories of deaths]]
* Why would Michael want to make the humans forget how they died? The point is to torture them. Wouldn't knowing they died in an embarrassing, stupid way be torture? And the answer can't be that Michael wanted to have a backup plan in case Eleanor confessed, because her actually improving and eventually confessing was the one thing he never expected to happen. That was always the biggest wrench in his plan, and he never would have done anything to prepare for that in the first attempt as he never considered that a possibility.

[[/folder]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:


[[folder: Employee of the Bearimy]]
* Why would the Bad Place still have Michael's Employee of the Bearimy photo up if he's a well-established traitor who everyone hates?

[[/folder]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Janet explicitly mentions in "Janet(s)" that the main four are the first humans ever to not be immediately sent to the Good Place or Bad Place upon their deaths. So this 100% means that Mindy was initially sent to one of the Places first before they debated her. The problem is, how would have found out that her situation was debatable in the first place? If she was sent to the Bad Place, the Bad Place demons sure as hell wouldn't have noticed that Mindy might deserve to actually be in the Good Place and report it to the Judge out of the kindness of their hearts. Trevor literally says in the introduction video that they still think they should get her. Her being sent to the Good Place would make more sense, as it's implied the Good Place didn't want new people coming in to add to the problem of them being unable to keep it entertaining. However, why would Beadie act the way she did if that was the case? The way she says "But neither did we" with a twinge of bitterness implies that they did want and try to keep Mindy.

to:

* Janet explicitly mentions in "Janet(s)" that the main four are the first humans ever to not be immediately sent to the Good Place or Bad Place upon their deaths. So this 100% means that Mindy was initially sent to one of the Places first before they debated her. The problem is, how would have found out that her situation was debatable in the first place? If she was sent to the Bad Place, the Bad Place demons sure as hell wouldn't have noticed that Mindy might deserve to actually be in the Good Place and report it to the Judge out of the kindness of their hearts. Trevor literally says in the introduction video that they still think they should get her. Her being sent to the Good Place and them trying to return her would make more sense, as it's implied the Good Place didn't want new people coming in due to add to the problem of them being unable to keep it entertaining. However, why would Beadie act the way she did if that was the case? The way she says "But neither did we" with a twinge of bitterness implies that they did want and try to keep Mindy.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

[[/folder]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

[[folder: Mindy's initial arrival]]
* Janet explicitly mentions in "Janet(s)" that the main four are the first humans ever to not be immediately sent to the Good Place or Bad Place upon their deaths. So this 100% means that Mindy was initially sent to one of the Places first before they debated her. The problem is, how would have found out that her situation was debatable in the first place? If she was sent to the Bad Place, the Bad Place demons sure as hell wouldn't have noticed that Mindy might deserve to actually be in the Good Place and report it to the Judge out of the kindness of their hearts. Trevor literally says in the introduction video that they still think they should get her. Her being sent to the Good Place would make more sense, as it's implied the Good Place didn't want new people coming in to add to the problem of them being unable to keep it entertaining. However, why would Beadie act the way she did if that was the case? The way she says "But neither did we" with a twinge of bitterness implies that they did want and try to keep Mindy.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** In ''Rhonda, Diana, Jake, and Trent'', Bad Janet insults a demon, and both the demon and Janet immediately laugh about. The demons get masochistic pleasure from Bad Janet.

to:

** In ''Rhonda, "Rhonda, Diana, Jake, and Trent'', Trent", Bad Janet insults a demon, and both the demon and Janet immediately laugh about. The So it seems the demons get masochistic pleasure from Bad Janet.

Added: 399

Changed: 13

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** And as we seen more of TBP, it's suggested that Bad Janets actually do much of the same things as Janets. They just do it rudely and poorly such as making all the trains 3 hours late and insulting waiting passengers (demons). It's possible that while they can openly defy humans and twist the wishes of lower ranking demons, they still have some high level cosmic rules that they have to enforce much like regular Janets, almost like inverse three laws.

to:

** And as we seen see more of TBP, the Bad Place, it's suggested that Bad Janets actually do much of the same things as Janets. They just do it rudely and poorly such as making all the trains 3 hours late and insulting waiting passengers (demons). It's possible that while they can openly defy humans and twist the wishes of lower ranking demons, they still have some high level cosmic rules that they have to enforce much like regular Janets, almost like inverse three laws.
** In ''Rhonda, Diana, Jake, and Trent'', Bad Janet insults a demon, and both the demon and Janet immediately laugh about. The demons get masochistic pleasure from Bad Janet.
** Yeah, Bad Janet is less torturous than having spiders shoved up your butt, but one of the traits about the Bad Place is that EvilIsPetty. If they see an opportunity to torture or even just annoy someone, they will take it.

Added: 142

Changed: 68

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** Jason figuring it out was just a one in a thousand type thing (literally, as there were 802 attempts and Jason only figured it out once).




to:

** They could be given an actual kid who died young to take care of.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** That still doesn't answer why the demons wear these suits literally all the time, even when they're in their own company and not trying to find new torture methods.

to:

*** That still doesn't answer why the demons wear these suits literally all the time, even when they're in their own company and not trying to find new torture methods.
methods. Michael makes sense because of his fascination with humanity and eventual shame over his true form, but even demons who hate humans do this.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

*** That still doesn't answer why the demons wear these suits literally all the time, even when they're in their own company and not trying to find new torture methods.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** This is a case where the explanation is primarily Doylist. The show itself addresses religion by saying none of the established religions got it all right, with the worldbuilding instead focusing on a secular afterlife still applicable to religious traditions, using universally relatable concepts of afterlives and morality to speak to a completely general audience. Having characters asking about God basically demands one religion or none be confirmed or denied by the story, which this philosophy show is not here to do, and so it presents another vision of a moral afterlife as a grand narrative thought experiment.




to:

** All of the nonhumans in the celestial afterlife deal with human affairs, so all of them take human forms to better acquaint themselves and/or interact more productively with the people they're working for. Some, like Janets, are created in a human appearance because they directly work with humans, but for demons, it's practical for their true forms to be monsters humans would he horrified by. All the same, it's important for demons to "cosplay" human culture, to get the experiences of living in a human body and dealing with social minutiae so they can better understand what humans hate about being human--and exploit that. Michael is the epitome of this human-centered torture philosophy, and is also the demon who most enjoys human form.

Added: 147

Changed: 115

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* I can see eating for pleasure, but why bother sleeping if you don't have to (most people do consider it a nuisance in real life.

to:

* I can see eating for pleasure, but why bother sleeping if you don't have to (most people do consider it a nuisance in real life.)



** Okay, first off... most people consider sleeping a total nuisance? That is just flat out untrue. Tons of people enjoy the sensation of sleeping.




to:

*** Michael also states that he used to believe their torture was a way of balancing out justice in the afterlife.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* So, Michael and all the other demons are wearing skin suits, which are basically just costumes they use to better grasp how the human body works so they can most effectively torture it. Okay, that makes sense, but what doesn't make sense is...why do they wear these suits, like, all the time? Even when they're in the demon headquarters, a place where there would be no humans in sight and they're exclusively in the presence of other demons, they still wear the suits. Todd the lava monster and Lance the slug are shown not wearing their suits in the headquarters, and they're treated incredibly casually, so there doesn't seem to be any recommendation or obligation that a demon can't be in their natural form. Based on a few comments the demons make, skin suits are rather uncomfortable to wear, at least at first. Obviously the meta explanation is that the budget can't afford to have a bunch of fire squids and acid snakes everywhere, but is there any in-universe reason?

to:

* So, Michael and all the other demons are wearing skin suits, which are basically just costumes they use to better grasp how the human body works so they can most effectively torture it. Okay, that makes sense, but what doesn't make sense is...why do they wear these suits, like, all the time? Even when they're in the demon headquarters, a place where there would be no humans in sight and they're exclusively in the presence of other demons, they still wear the suits. Todd the lava monster and Lance the slug are shown not wearing their suits in the headquarters, and they're treated incredibly casually, so there doesn't seem to be any rule or recommendation or obligation that a demon can't be in their natural form. Based on a few comments the demons make, skin suits are rather uncomfortable to wear, at least at first. Obviously the meta explanation is that the budget can't afford to have a bunch of fire squids and acid snakes everywhere, but is there any in-universe reason?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* So, Michael and all the other demons are wearing skin suits, which are basically just costumes they use to better grasp how the human body works so they can most effectively torture it. Okay, that makes sense, but what doesn't make sense is...why do they wear these suits, like, all the time? Even when they're in the demon headquarters, a place where there would be no humans in sight and they're exclusively in the presence of other demons, they still wear the suits. Based on a few comments the demons make, skin suits are rather uncomfortable to wear, at least at first. Todd the lava monster and Lance the slug are shown not wearing their suits, and they're treated incredibly casually, so there doesn't seem to be any recommendation or obligation that a demon can't be in their natural form. Obviously the meta explanation is that the budget can't afford to have a bunch of fire squids and acid snakes everywhere, but is there any in-universe reason?

to:

* So, Michael and all the other demons are wearing skin suits, which are basically just costumes they use to better grasp how the human body works so they can most effectively torture it. Okay, that makes sense, but what doesn't make sense is...why do they wear these suits, like, all the time? Even when they're in the demon headquarters, a place where there would be no humans in sight and they're exclusively in the presence of other demons, they still wear the suits. Todd the lava monster and Lance the slug are shown not wearing their suits in the headquarters, and they're treated incredibly casually, so there doesn't seem to be any recommendation or obligation that a demon can't be in their natural form. Based on a few comments the demons make, skin suits are rather uncomfortable to wear, at least at first. Todd the lava monster and Lance the slug are shown not wearing their suits, and they're treated incredibly casually, so there doesn't seem to be any recommendation or obligation that a demon can't be in their natural form. Obviously the meta explanation is that the budget can't afford to have a bunch of fire squids and acid snakes everywhere, but is there any in-universe reason?

Top