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*** There's also a limitation imposed on Surrogate Trolls in that the actual surrogates are fairly expensive and require legal registration. Part of the reason Internet Trolls get away with what they do is because it's possible to create dozens of accounts (or more) at most websites for free. If one account is closed by the administrator, ignored by users or otherwise ostracized by the community, there's always plenty more the troll can use. Hypothetically, only the wealthy would be able to afford to be Surrogate Trolls.
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*** Maybe it's something [[JustBugsMe that just bothers]] him or her.
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*** Ah, true enough; the "failsafe" would, I suppose, block everything up to and including the whole issue with melted brains and popped eyeballs. Nevertheless, there is still the problem that the head and eye pieces shouldn't be able do that sort of physical damage to their user unless they were specifically designed with that capability. What's really being pointed out is that the plot of the movie relies on a variation of ExplosiveInstrumentation. This is combined with the general absence of an explanation for what sort of insubstantial energy or AppliedPhlebotinum could travel through the airwaves (or whatever), make its way through a presumably electronic system, and cause the eye pieces and headset to somehow gain a lethal property they either didn't already have or shouldn't have been built with in the first place. Yes, I ''get'' that this problem was [[HandWave hand waved]] (or just ignored altogether) for the sake of moving the plot along; but this is, after all, a JustBugsMe page.
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* Others have touched on it but I'm going to state it outright. Its the all or nothing nature of Surrogate use. Not just the timeframe, which is unrealistic enough, but there are basically only three viewpoints portrayed in the movie. Surrogate for everything but eating and using the bathroom, {{Ludd Was Right}} and the computer tech who is viewed as an eccentric weirdo who avoids being a pariah because he possess valuable skills. There's no one who uses a Surrogate most of the time but occasionally likes to get out and engage in their hobby sans Surrogate, or alternately someone who spends most of their time ''au naturale'' but uses a Surrogate for things like extreme sports for safety/practicality reasons. Or to boil it down there are no shades of grey.

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* Others have touched on it but I'm going to state it outright. Its the all or nothing nature of Surrogate use. Not just the timeframe, which is unrealistic enough, but there are basically only three viewpoints portrayed in the movie. Surrogate for everything but eating and using the bathroom, {{Ludd Was Right}} and the computer tech who is viewed as an eccentric weirdo who avoids being a pariah because he possess valuable skills. There's no one who uses a Surrogate most of the time but occasionally likes to get out and engage in their hobby sans Surrogate, or alternately someone who spends most of their time ''au naturale'' but uses a Surrogate for things like extreme sports for safety/practicality reasons. Or to boil it down there are no shades of grey.grey.

* So, what crime would Greer be convicted of? Vandalism? Sabotage? Gross criminal negligence?
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** The "failsafe" wasn't specifically a "prevent this from melting your brain" failsafe. It was a general failsafe, along the lines of, "Make sure that any damage to the surrogate doesn't feedback on the user." The whole point was that the weapon did something ''entirely unexpected'' and out of the ordinary.

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** The "failsafe" wasn't specifically a "prevent this from melting your brain" failsafe. It was a general failsafe, along the lines of, "Make sure that any damage to the surrogate doesn't feedback on the user." The whole point was that the weapon did something ''entirely unexpected'' and out of the ordinary.ordinary.
* Others have touched on it but I'm going to state it outright. Its the all or nothing nature of Surrogate use. Not just the timeframe, which is unrealistic enough, but there are basically only three viewpoints portrayed in the movie. Surrogate for everything but eating and using the bathroom, {{Ludd Was Right}} and the computer tech who is viewed as an eccentric weirdo who avoids being a pariah because he possess valuable skills. There's no one who uses a Surrogate most of the time but occasionally likes to get out and engage in their hobby sans Surrogate, or alternately someone who spends most of their time ''au naturale'' but uses a Surrogate for things like extreme sports for safety/practicality reasons. Or to boil it down there are no shades of grey.
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** No. Humans do have some biological guidelines to what attraction is, even if they vary and are influenced by culture. Being different looking doesn't make you automatically attractive, especially when everyone else is symmetrical, thin, with good skin, big bright eyes, and shiny hair. The Elephant Man wouldn't get laid at Chippendales.
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* Here's what gets me. Quick rundown of the situation: nearly the entire human population decides to use robots via telepresence to live their lives, largely for safety reasons. Someone comes along, zaps the surrogates with some sort of electromegablaster, and it not only blows out the surrogate's eyes and CPU, it ''causes the [[EyeScream user's eyes to burst]] and [[YourHeadAsplode brains to turn to a bloody gray soup]].'' The movie makes references to the blaster dealie being capable of bypassing the "failsafe," which is presumably the safety device that prevents the headsets and eye pieces from causing their brain to blow up under normal conditions. My question is this: why ''design'' the headsets (controllers) to have the ''capability'' of causing eye bursts and brain melts in the first place? Liquifying someone's brains is not likely to be just an unfortunate side effect of the technology, particularly since brain liquification is no easy task in the first place. The head pieces seem to operate the surrogates by receiving and translating a user's brainwaves, so that's probably not going to need a failsafe to prevent brain liquification. It's not entirely certain how the brain receives sensory input from the surrogate, of course; based on the devices, it's probably a combination of visual images, via the eye pieces, and possibly electrical impulses from the headset sent directly into the brain, but jeez...just how much electricity is needed to implant sensory input? Is it enough to potentially melt someone's brain and cause their eyeballs to burst without a failsafe in place?

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* Here's what gets me. Quick rundown of the situation: nearly the entire human population decides to use robots via telepresence to live their lives, largely for safety reasons. Someone comes along, zaps the surrogates with some sort of electromegablaster, and it not only blows out the surrogate's eyes and CPU, it ''causes the [[EyeScream user's eyes to burst]] and [[YourHeadAsplode brains to turn to a bloody gray soup]].'' The movie makes references to the blaster dealie being capable of bypassing the "failsafe," which is presumably the safety device that prevents the headsets and eye pieces from causing their brain to blow up under normal conditions. My question is this: why ''design'' the headsets (controllers) to have the ''capability'' of causing eye bursts and brain melts in the first place? Liquifying someone's brains is not likely to be just an unfortunate side effect of the technology, particularly since brain liquification is no easy task in the first place. The head pieces seem to operate the surrogates by receiving and translating a user's brainwaves, so that's probably not going to need a failsafe to prevent brain liquification. It's not entirely certain how the brain receives sensory input from the surrogate, of course; based on the devices, it's probably a combination of visual images, via the eye pieces, and possibly electrical impulses from the headset sent directly into the brain, but jeez...just how much electricity is needed to implant sensory input? Is it enough to potentially melt someone's brain and cause their eyeballs to burst without a failsafe in place?place?
** The "failsafe" wasn't specifically a "prevent this from melting your brain" failsafe. It was a general failsafe, along the lines of, "Make sure that any damage to the surrogate doesn't feedback on the user." The whole point was that the weapon did something ''entirely unexpected'' and out of the ordinary.
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* Here's what gets me. Quick rundown of the situation: nearly the entire human population decides to use robots via telepresence to live their lives, largely for safety reasons. Someone comes along, zaps the surrogates with some sort of electromegablaster, and it not only blows out the surrogate's eyes and CPU, it ''causes the [[EyeScream user's eyes to burst]] and [[YourHeadAsplode brains to turn to a bloody gray soup]].'' The movie makes references to the blaster dealie being capable of bypassing the "failsafe," which is presumably the safety device that prevents the headsets and eye pieces from causing their brain to blow up under normal conditions. My question is this: why ''design'' the headsets (controllers) to have the ''capability'' of causing eye bursts and brain melts in the first place? Liquifying someone's brains is not likely to be just an unfortunate side effect of the technology, particularly since brain liquification is no easy task in the first place. The head pieces seem to operate the surrogates by receiving and translating a user's brainwaves, so that's probably not going to need a failsafe to prevent brain liquification. It's not entirely certain how the brain receives sensory input from the surrogate, of course; based on the devices, it's probably a combination of visual images, via the eye pieces, and possibly electrical impulses from the headset sent directly into the brain, but jeez...just how much electricity is needed to implant sensory input? Is it enough to potentially melt someone's brain and cause their eyeballs to burst without a failsafe in place?
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**If they're independent, that's even worse. Assualt on a foreign police agent is outright agression against the U.S., and it seems the Government would want to take any chance it could to reasimilate the settlement.
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*** TruthInTelevision, poorer people often end up fat because they only have access to lower quality food (i.e. [= McDonald's=]. People without surrogates tended to be poor.

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*** TruthInTelevision, poorer people often end up fat because they only have access to lower quality food (i.e. [= McDonald's=].McDonald's=]). People without surrogates tended to be poor. But I would expect most everybody to be in much more horrible shape, since there's more to fitness than just weight. It's possible that Greer exercised with his real body once in a while since he doesn't seem to be so surrogate-obsessed (in the comic, at least). But like the above person said I'd wonder why there aren't bigger concerns about people starving to death or suffering other [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation#Signs_and_symptoms starvation-related damage]].



** The artificial bodies ''do'' serve a purpose, at least in the comics. Because everybody's in an easily replaceable artificial body people are rarely ever in real danger. You don't have to worry about getting in a car crash or mugged or any of those other risks you take every time you leave your house. I'd also think that anybody who had enough money and was dissatisfied with their natural body (unattractive people, transgender people, etc.) would buy a surrogate. Those benefits change life on a whole different level than just getting a computer.

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** The artificial bodies ''do'' serve a purpose, at least in the comics.comic. Because everybody's in an easily replaceable artificial body people are rarely ever in real danger. You don't have to worry about getting in a car crash or mugged or any of those other risks you take every time you leave your house. I'd also think that anybody who had enough money and was dissatisfied with their natural body (unattractive people, transgender people, etc.) would buy a surrogate. Those benefits change life on a whole different level than just getting a computer.

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** Calm down. Some people are just skinny or fat regardless of their eating and exercise habits. Call it good genes. Alternatively, it's possible people who use surrogates use them so much they ''put off'' eating, so they'd get skinnier, sort of like how occasionally you'll hear about a Korean MMORPG player who starved to death. Meanwhile, non-surrogate users, like us, are always in their bodies, and given they're sort of exiles, don't have access to the same passtimes and entertainment, and may end up eating more because of it.

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** Calm down. Some people are just skinny or fat regardless of their eating and exercise habits. Call it good genes. Alternatively, it's possible people who use surrogates use them so much they ''put off'' eating, so they'd get skinnier, sort of like how occasionally you'll hear about a Korean MMORPG player who starved to death. Meanwhile, non-surrogate users, like us, are always in their bodies, and given they're sort of exiles, don't have access to the same passtimes pastimes and entertainment, and may end up eating more because of it.it.
*** TruthInTelevision, poorer people often end up fat because they only have access to lower quality food (i.e. [= McDonald's=]. People without surrogates tended to be poor.


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** The artificial bodies ''do'' serve a purpose, at least in the comics. Because everybody's in an easily replaceable artificial body people are rarely ever in real danger. You don't have to worry about getting in a car crash or mugged or any of those other risks you take every time you leave your house. I'd also think that anybody who had enough money and was dissatisfied with their natural body (unattractive people, transgender people, etc.) would buy a surrogate. Those benefits change life on a whole different level than just getting a computer.
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** Calm down. Some people are just skinny or fat regardless of their eating and exercise habits. Call it good genes. Alternatively, it's possible people who use surrogates use them so much they ''put off'' eating, so they'd get skinnier, sort of like how occasionally you'll hear about a Korean MMORPG player who starved to death. Meanwhile, non-surrogate users, like us, are always in their bodies, and given they're sort of exiles, don't have access to the same passtimes and entertainment, and may end up eating more because of it.

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** Calm down. Some people are just skinny or fat regardless of their eating and exercise habits. Call it good genes. Alternatively, it's possible people who use surrogates use them so much they ''put off'' eating, so they'd get skinnier, sort of like how occasionally you'll hear about a Korean MMORPG player who starved to death. Meanwhile, non-surrogate users, like us, are always in their bodies, and given they're sort of exiles, don't have access to the same passtimes and entertainment, and may end up eating more because of it.it.
* Home computers, which are vastly cheaper than Surrogates, and have proven value haven't managed to reach to 98% market saturation in the more 14 or so years that they have been widely available. Believing that an artificial body that serves no discernible purpose for the average person,just defies logic.
* If everyone is now "attractive" wouldn't ugly have been the new "pretty?"
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* If they all use surrogates except when they are eating or using the bathroom, why are all the real life people NOT morbidly obese? Bruce Willis is in at the ABSOLUTE WORST in average condition for a man of his age, and his wife is also incredibly thin. So these people who spend most of their lives sitting in a chair are perfectly healthy, yet that lady from the settlement who shot Willis' surrogate and had not used a surrogate for god knows how long is overweight. HOW DOES THAT WORK?!?!?!

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* If they all use surrogates except when they are eating or using the bathroom, why are all the real life people NOT morbidly obese? Bruce Willis is in at the ABSOLUTE WORST in average condition for a man of his age, and his wife is also incredibly thin. So these people who spend most of their lives sitting in a chair are perfectly healthy, yet that lady from the settlement who shot Willis' surrogate and had not used a surrogate for god knows how long is overweight. HOW DOES THAT WORK?!?!?!WORK?!?!?!
** Calm down. Some people are just skinny or fat regardless of their eating and exercise habits. Call it good genes. Alternatively, it's possible people who use surrogates use them so much they ''put off'' eating, so they'd get skinnier, sort of like how occasionally you'll hear about a Korean MMORPG player who starved to death. Meanwhile, non-surrogate users, like us, are always in their bodies, and given they're sort of exiles, don't have access to the same passtimes and entertainment, and may end up eating more because of it.
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* I just can't get past the central conceit. Yes, I realize that this is all just a giant metaphor for how we're all turning into couch potatoes and letting ourselves get sucked into our entertainments, and I'm pretty generous when it comes to suspending disbelief but, come on, the idea that 99% of the planet would voluntarily surrogate themselves 99% of the time, in a near future setting, no less, is just way too much for me to swallow.

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* I just can't get past the central conceit. Yes, I realize that this is all just a giant metaphor for how we're all turning into couch potatoes and letting ourselves get sucked into our entertainments, and I'm pretty generous when it comes to suspending disbelief but, come on, the idea that 99% of the planet would voluntarily surrogate themselves 99% of the time, in a near future setting, no less, is just way too much for me to swallow.swallow.
*If they all use surrogates except when they are eating or using the bathroom, why are all the real life people NOT morbidly obese? Bruce Willis is in at the ABSOLUTE WORST in average condition for a man of his age, and his wife is also incredibly thin. So these people who spend most of their lives sitting in a chair are perfectly healthy, yet that lady from the settlement who shot Willis' surrogate and had not used a surrogate for god knows how long is overweight. HOW DOES THAT WORK?!?!?!

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People putting words in my mouth


** The filmmakers' answers to these questions (according to the DVDCommentary) is that [[ViewersAreMorons they were worried that the plot would be too complicated to follow]].




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** The filmmakers' answers to the car/cellphone/biometric scanner questions (according to the DVDCommentary) is that [[ViewersAreMorons they were worried that the plot would be too complicated to follow]].
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** There's some talk about treaties which implies that these really aren't part of the rest of the country, anymore, which is, IMO, just one more heaping helping of implausibility on top of all the rest.
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* How exactly do the people on the reservations get away with destroying an FBI surrogate who had a very legitimate reason for being there, harboring the fugitive he was after, and then playing the victim about it? Does the government have absolutely NO authority over them despite them still obviously being part of the US?

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* How exactly do the people on the reservations get away with destroying an FBI surrogate who had a very legitimate reason for being there, harboring the fugitive he was after, and then playing the victim about it? Does the government have absolutely NO authority over them despite them still obviously being part of the US?US?
* I just can't get past the central conceit. Yes, I realize that this is all just a giant metaphor for how we're all turning into couch potatoes and letting ourselves get sucked into our entertainments, and I'm pretty generous when it comes to suspending disbelief but, come on, the idea that 99% of the planet would voluntarily surrogate themselves 99% of the time, in a near future setting, no less, is just way too much for me to swallow.

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*** In this sense 98% of 'The world' could just mean the USA, like the world series, the planets most funny whatever and so on. Poorer countries could have cheaper surrogates like the loaner model and they are not as popular.
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* Other ending question: The ending report clearly say the effect was mostly limited to the eastern seaboard. So, what about the rest of the world? Also, doesn't the big corporation win in the end? Everyone needs new surrogates, and since their plants are mostly automated and not run by surrogates, there's no reason they can't repair the damage.

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* Other ending question: The ending report clearly say the effect was mostly limited to the eastern seaboard. So, what about the rest of the world? Also, doesn't the big corporation win in the end? Everyone needs new surrogates, and since their plants are mostly automated and not run by surrogates, there's no reason they can't repair the damage.damage.
* How exactly do the people on the reservations get away with destroying an FBI surrogate who had a very legitimate reason for being there, harboring the fugitive he was after, and then playing the victim about it? Does the government have absolutely NO authority over them despite them still obviously being part of the US?
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*** Actually, he ''does'' press the key. You can clearly hear the click just before they shoot him.
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** They keep to themselves and complain about fursecution while everyone laughs at them.
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** That's not a plot hole. Or fridge logic.
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* I'm not a fan of product placement in the first place, and it seemed especially asinine in this movie. Why, for instance, is there a jar of peanut butter randomly sitting on a shelf in an office? And why all the unnecessary zoom-ins on the car badges? It's like, "plot plot plot HEY LOOK A TOYOTA (or whatever the hell it was, I neither remember nor care)." Surely there are less intrusive (and let's face it, stupid) ways to work the product into the movie?

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* I'm not a fan of product placement in the first place, and it seemed especially asinine in this movie. Why, for instance, is there a jar of peanut butter randomly sitting on a shelf in an office? And why all the unnecessary zoom-ins on the car badges? It's like, "plot plot plot HEY LOOK A TOYOTA (or whatever the hell it was, I neither remember nor care)." Surely there are less intrusive (and let's face it, stupid) ways to work the product into the movie?movie?
*Other ending question: The ending report clearly say the effect was mostly limited to the eastern seaboard. So, what about the rest of the world? Also, doesn't the big corporation win in the end? Everyone needs new surrogates, and since their plants are mostly automated and not run by surrogates, there's no reason they can't repair the damage.
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***** This is probably slightly balanced by the fact that using surrogates acts as birth control and surrogates can't get pregnant, and that most people are having sex in their surrogates. Over time this could balance the population. People are also using less energy by keeping their bodies at home, and while surrogates take up space, they also don't need to eat just electricity.
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*** They can be a jerk all they want. Only if they commit a crime, the police can shut down the surrogate as we saw in that one scene with the two surrogates that looked like they were going to rape that woman.
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*** He doesn't press the N key, actually. He doesn't push anything. The other guy is telling him to hit Y, and Greer is clearly ''intending'' to hit N, but the cops (who think he's still the other guy in the girl's body) put a bullet through the surrogate's head before he can actually hit the button.

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*** But technology that lets you enjoy sex and drugs in a surrogate form means you can pipe experiences directly into the brain--where's the world of virtual reality that ought to exist?




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** Yeah, they went from lab experiments 14 years earlier to "98% of the world using surrogates in their daily lives." Yeah. Do PHONES have that level of penetration even now? I don't think so.




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**** Surrogates have also effectively doubled the world population, if 98 percent (or whatever) of people use one. Sure, half the population is lying motionless in a stim chair and the other half don't have to eat, but....
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* I'm not a fan of product placement in the first place, and it seemed especially asinine in this movie. Why, for instance, is there a jar of peanut butter randomly sitting on a shelf in an office? And why all the unnecessary zoom-ins on the car badges? It's like, "plot plot plot HEY LOOK A TOYOTA (or whatever the hell it was, I neither remember nor care)." Surely there are less intrusive (and let's face it, stupid) ways to work the product into the movie?
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* You know, when I think about it, the movie is actually promoting older views being imposed on everyone. Concerting that I'm a gamer atheist socialist that bugs me x3 due to the fact that all 3 are groups a large part of some older generations want dead.
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** I imagine that the problem could have been solved with a simple phone call beforehand, even a lie like "My sources in the company tell me that there's a good chance everyone logged in at X time will suffer have their Surrogate's wifi fried, log off and keep it someplace safe at X hour on Y day". Had [[spoiler: his son]] refused to go offline when the evil plan came into effect, he could have had an aide on standby blow the surrogate's CPU out. Uncomfortable for them, but they'd have been logged off and safe.

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** I imagine that the problem could have been solved with a simple phone call beforehand, even a lie like "My sources in the company tell me that there's a good chance everyone logged in at X time will suffer have their Surrogate's wifi fried, log off and keep it someplace safe at X hour on Y day". Had [[spoiler: his son]] refused to go offline when the evil plan came into effect, he could have had an aide on standby blow the surrogate's CPU out. Uncomfortable for them, but they'd have been logged off and safe.safe.

*At one point the main characters walk past a whole factory line churning out surrogates. So that means there's a computer running that line that has all the blueprints/shematics/etc already loaded into it. There's also shops and mechanics who do surrogate repairs and upgrades, which means there's plenty of people with complete knowledge of exactly how to make a surrogate. Plus, it's shown that lots of users have extras/copies of their surrogates lying around unconneced. What all this means, of course, is that Bruce Willis' decision to [[spoiler:fry all the surrogates and heroically "rescue" humanity is going to force people to live in their own bodies for... oh, about half a day? Yeah, that ''totally'' justifies shutting down the entire world and costing untold billions in property damage and loss of life!]]
**Plus, once the security tape gets out showing him [[spoiler:very clearly pressing the 'N' key on that computer he's going to be up on about 5 billion counts of vandalism. And quite possibly several thousand of manslaughter, seeing as he directly caused all the planes in the sky to crash at once, and single-handedly incapacitated the staff of every single hospital, fire department, police station, utilities plant, and safety office ''in the world.'' If spending more time with his wife was his motivation, you'd think he could have found a slightly less ''globally devastating'' way to do it.]]

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