History Headscratchers / MetalGearSolid2SonsOfLiberty

*** That doesn't really answer the question about Raiden not recognising Solidus as the former president. In-universe, Solidus/George Sears resigned after Shadow Moses, 4 years before the Big Shell incident. I don't think Raiden's short-term memory is that bad.
*** IIRC, Raiden always ''did'' remember his past, but tried to repress the memories and made it quite clear he didn't want to discuss the subject with Rose; he's able to recall with clarity what was done to him as a child soldier, but doesn't talk about it until forced. As for not recognizing Solidus as the former President, it could that he did but didn't say so out loud, but in flashbacks, Solidus was depicted without a beard as George Sears, and looked a ''lot'' different. It's not implausible that Raiden didn't make the connection between the Big Boss clone in an exoskeleton in front of him and vague recollections of yet another suit-wearing older politician, distinguished only by position, that he could have only seen on TV.
*** Raiden is himself also under the influence of Patriot nanomachines. In terms of what the 'Selection for Societal Sanity' plan was trying to do (which is still unclear in some ways), it seems to at least put the subject through the wringer pretty hard. Chances are the Patriot nanomachines could have been suppressing Raiden's bad memories of Solidus right up until the point that it would hit the hardest.
*** Plus, accelerated aging. Chances are, he looks several decades older.

*** Could we get a citation on that? Because the game never says any of that, and supports my theory more. For example, all the wounds he got in 2 are still on his body in 4, but all of the new wounds he gets in 4 are healed up completely by the nanomachines. And Naomi herself says that he already had an impressive regen ability;

*** Also his shadow attack was not technological in nature, Otacon suggested it was more hypnotic in nature. And he can sit on the water because he does have some degree of supernatural power. The nanomachines in 4 were just to keep his body from falling apart.
*** That quote from Naomi is highly ambiguous. It could either refer to Vamp having some innate healing factor, like Wolverine, ''or'' it could just refer to the natural healing abilities the human body possesses, which were amplified in Vamp's case by nanotechnology. Given the Guns of the Patriots' tendency to de-mystify the series, the latter explanation is more likely.

*** [[spoiler: Depends on the source material, unfortunately when it is explained we didn't get a time-line. The [=MGS4=] database and the MGS wiki go with the hypnotherapy thing, the [=MGS2=] comic goes with the Ocelot is part psychic thing, I feel the hypnotherapy deal goes better with Ocelot's series spanning xanatos gambit.]] Ocelot is the son of The Boss and The Sorrow. So he's the son of a spirit medium, making his body ripe for possessing. After the events of MGS 2 he did the hypnotherapy, but during the events of MGS 2 he was possessed. This isn't spoilered out because YouShouldKnowThisByNow.
*** That's only ever mentioned in the comic, if the [=MGS4=] database on PSN is word of god then it's hypnotherapy.
*** Technically the database also says he removed the arm after 2009 to "balance his psyche", but it's wrong on a million other things so it's hardly Word of God.
*** It's a bit of both actually, the actual Liquid is dead and gone, his ghost is still floating in REX's cockpit in [=MGS4=], Ocelot used hypnotherapy to create a new Liquid persona entirely in his own mind which "possessed" him every time snake was around. So yeah A Liquid is possessing Ocelot, just not THE Liquid. Ocelot has no direct control over his actions, but it's part of his huge master plan. The point was to fool the Patriots into thinking they we're fighting Liquid and not Ocelot so they couldn't predict his actions. So his Ocelot persona is completely at whim of his Liquid persona, but it's got nothing to do with him being the Sorrow's son.

*** I imagine there was some amount of physical combat involved. My best guess is she clocked him in the head with the butt of her railgun when she got an opportunity.

*** He really didn't thought Raiden was Olga, he simply wasn't sure if was Olga or some effeminate guy that looked like her so he did the crotch grabbing test to find out for sure.
*** Yet another way to mock Raiden, perhaps?
*** Uh, you're all pretty way off. "I'm ready for my punishment!" he says, before going for crotch. Guy probably thought the hot, dominant russian babe was going to give him an... "interrogation".

*** [[spoiler:"The last of the original members died in the 1930's." -The Boss. The Philosophers weren't founded for WWII. They died closer to 80 years before the game, though.]]

*** It was the AI all along, it has Campbell on the nametag because Raiden thought he was the same Colonel as the one from Shadow Mosses. The Patriots always intended it to be a replica of Shadow Mosses, Snake's appearance didn't really change anything.

*** Let me think of a way to make this workable... okay, what about if what they are scared of is that someone will reverse-engineer the RAY's advances (for example, it lacks a radome as its only input device, which means a weakness is gone) and fit them into a new REX design, or some other new walking robot which IS capable of launching nukes? That would make true Metal Gears harder to take down from that point on.
*** I believe the real question here is; why did they build a giant robot to hunt other giant robots? If they can deploy a giant robot, can't they just deploy conventional munitions against REX knockoffs? In any case it wouldn't have been revealed ''to the public'' if RAY was used against a REX knockoff; your average elimination mission wouldn't really have the assets used advertised. The point of the mission was to raise public awareness by showing off the measures the US government were taking against Metal Gear proliferation, and thus gain support for anti-Metal Gear efforts.
*** Well for one, remember that the mission in the Tanker level was not to destroy Metal Gear - it was to take photographs so that the public was aware of the kind of weapons the military were using. Secondly, from a formal perspective, the Tanker mission was necessary to frustrate players even more. They thought they were getting a new game starring Solid Snake (the cover art points to this, as does the title screen). Then, throughout the Tanker, Snake fails to impress. His new 'stealth moves' like throwing bodies off the boat eventually frame him, the only cardboard box he gets is a sopping wet mess, the only boss is a pregnant woman with a pistol rather a cool FOXHOUND-like boss with special powers, there's a long shoot-out section where stealth goes out the window, Snake can sneeze and give himself away and eventually the mission is a failure. Then, we're introduced to Raiden who wants to be Solid Snake and that fails too - the whole thing is just to frustrate the player until Raiden 'awakens' and gains the sword.

* At the end, when Solidis is falling off the federal hall, he says something but it's muted. It's hard to even notice he's talking because half his lips are obscured by his armor but he's definitely talking. It's much easier to see if you replace him with someone else in theater mode. So does anyone know what he says? Is looks detailed enough to lip read though it's probably syncs to Japanese.
* If President Johnson was just a figurehead, why did he have the real activation code for Arsenal Gear?

** My money's on him just leaving it home for that mission, since he intended to be stealthy, not go in guns ablazin'. Besides, VideoGame/MetalGearSolid4 shows that Meryl survived, so her ending is canon.

* This really could go for the first game as well, but the information that really makes it a headscratcher is given here, so I'm putting it here. Otacon and Emma talk about their family's dark history, starting with Otacon's grandfather working on the Manhattan Project. However, even here, the weight given to it implies they know about Otacon's father, Huey, and his work alongside Big Boss and MSF. However, this rips the entire plot asunder. Firstly, if they knew about Huey's work, there's no way Otacon would have been involved in Shadow Moses. Secondly, the moment the two of them started talking about their families, both of them would have had a collective "What the hell?" moment when they realized destiny basically forced them together. Of course, if Huey was extremely secretive about his past with Otacon, that also means he never left any notes, a journal or diary, and was somehow able to deflect questions from his genius son with the exact same interests as him. Whis is highly unlikely. And that's completely avoiding the theory that Strangelove was his mother, because then there'd be even more issues. Like, Otacon asking at one point "Hey dad, how did you and mom meet anyways?"

* At the end, when Solidis is falling off the federal hall, he says something but it's muted. It's hard to even notice he's talking because half his lips are obscured by his armor but he's definitely talking. It's much easier to see if you replace him with someone else in theater mode. So does anyone know what he says? Is looks detailed enough to lip read though it's probably syncs to Japanese.

* Okay, so Snake and Otacon notice that the Marines aboard The Discovery are disguised as civilian crewmen so as not to draw unwanted attention from people on land...but Colonel Gurlukovich's men are not only dressed in bright brown/orange uniforms, but carrying military gear on (the mostly blue-colored) deck where civilians could potentially see them. This is even more baffling during the plant chapter, where we ''do'' see mercenaries in blue uniforms...on the very orange exterior locations on The Big Shell, yet the mostly blue-colored interior has the guards with brown camo. What's the purpose of camo again, exactly?

* President James Johnson tells us that Solidus was created after Solid and Liquid and was a "survivor" of the Les Enfantes Terrible project. So does this mean he is possibly a surviving fetus of one of the six that were "aborted"? Is that even biologically possible?

* President James Johnson tells us that Solidus was created after Solid and Liquid, and was a "survivor" of the Les Enfantes Terrible project. So does this mean he is possibly a surviving fetus of one of the six that were "aborted"? Is that even biologically possible, or just another retcon by Kojima?

* President James Johnson tells us that Solidus was created after Solid and Liquid, and was a "survivor" of the Les Enfantes Terrible project. So does this mean he is possibly a surviving fetus of one of the six that were "aborted"? Is that even biologically possible?

* President James Johnson says that Solidus was created after Solid and Liquid, and was a "survivor" of the Les Enfantes Terrible project. So does this mean he is possibly a surviving fetus of one of the six that were "aborted"? Is that even biologically possible?

* President James Johnson mentions that Solidus was created after Solid and Liquid, and was a "survivor" of the Les Enfantes Terrible project. So does this mean he is possibly a surviving fetus of one of the six that were "aborted"? Is that even biologically possible?

* Why do certain characters, such as Raiden and Emma, communicate to each other on Codec, WHILE THEY'RE IN THE SAME ROOM?!

* Why do Raiden and Emma communicate to each other on Codec, WHILE THEY'RE IN THE SAME ROOM?!

* Stillman. Everything about him faking the injury makes zero sense. First off, if he pretended to have lost it, there's doctors and nurses in on it, along with paramedics. For some reason, all these people, therefore, were like "Hey, sure you killed a bunch of people due to your idiocy, but we'll help you fake injury in order to get sympathy". Secondly, he then needs to trick doctors and medics pretty much all the time, since he's working as an instructor and therefore likely had to do checkups in order to keep working. On top of this, he could never wear shorts or sandals or be seen barefoot by anyone, which is rather difficult, considering those are normal things normal people do. On top of this, he'd have to heavily refuse to ever let anyone see the prosthetic, which would get rather hard, since human nature dictates that just about everyone would be asking to see it. Sure, he has no kids, but let's all hope he's not married, because then either he'd have to somehow fool his wife or have her in on it. At this point, it's more likely that he was in on the Patriots' conspiracy too, because otherwise, he's just built his own conspiracy.

* Did Kojima actually admit the game's theme was inspired by the Japanese textbook controversy? I want to see the source.

* The equivalent English idiom would probably be "It's better to be the big fish in the little pond than the little fish in the big pond."

** Also keep in mind that he didn't get those nanomachines until after [=MGS2=]. He always had a hell of a regenerative factor and could do impossible feats like running on water or all perfectly vertical walls. He could swim through that water because he was inhumanly strong and dexterous.

*** No, he did. The hypnotherapy only happened after [=MGS2=]. In [=MGS2=], it really ''was'' Liquid's spirit taking over, and Ocelot ditched him for a prosthetic arm and hypnotherapy afterward.
**** [[spoiler: Depends on the source material, unfortunately when it is explained we didn't get a time-line. The [=MGS4=] database and the MGS wiki go with the hypnotherapy thing, the [=MGS2=] comic goes with the Ocelot is part psychic thing, this troper feels the hypnotherapy deal goes better with Ocelot's series spanning xanatos gambit.]] Ocelot is the son of The Boss and The Sorrow. So he's the son of a spirit medium, making his body ripe for possessing. After the events of MGS 2 he did the hypnotherapy, but during the events of MGS 2 he was possessed. This isn't spoilered out because YouShouldKnowThisByNow

****** Technically the database also says he removed the arm after [=MGS2=] to "balance his psyche", but it's wrong on a million other things so it's hardly Word of God.

** Okay, first off, the [=MGS4=] Database was marketed by Kojima Productions as being canon, so unless proven otherwise it's the word of god. Following that, [[spoiler: he was possessed during [=MGS2=], cut the arm off as soon as he got control again and got a new arm, then use hypnotherapy to continue with the ruse.]]

** Solidus sure didn't ''look'' to be in his 30s/40s by the time of [=MGS2=], so even though his Presidency was a few years in the past by then, he would have definetly looked to be the right age.

** Since he was one of The Patriots' agents, they could get him in office in a heartbeat. As for his appearance, his accelerated aging was faster than Solid & Liquid's, and had (supposedly) kicked in between [=MGS1=] & [=MGS2=].
* More on Solidus. Back before [=MGS2=] came out, I didn't mind that there was a super duper Big Boss clone named Solidus. What I did mind, and what I think counts as a massive case of FridgeLogic is that Solidus was the President of the United States. Granted in the chaos of the Shadow Moses incident, Solid and co. wouldn't stop and take a moment to ponder, "Gee, the Commander in Chief sure looks a lot like Big Boss, doesn't he?" and I think it's a shame that they couldn't have had a stinger with the POTUS decorating Snake for his actions and saying something like "Excellent work... ''brother.'' " And furthermore, why wouldn't the Patriots or someone else tell the media that it was the ex-President, and not Solid Snake? It sounds a lot more plausible that a disgraced American President would be behind a terrorist action than a "terrorist" who "died" two years ago.

* If at the end of [=MGS2=] [[spoiler: the Patriots - except for Ocelot - have all been dead for several years (100 if I recall correctly)]] then how can they have [[spoiler: been the manipulative force of most of the events of the series, AND how could one of them have been amongst Snake and Otacon's biggest contributors? Were they all AI's like the Colonel was?]]

*** No, no, no. The [[spoiler:Philosophers were founded to fight ''World War II''. Therefore the founders were alive in the 1940s and later, and couldn't have been dead for 100 years by the time of [=MGS2=], which took place in the early 21st century. That was ''a red herring''.]]
**** [[spoiler:"The last of the original members died in the 1930's." -The Boss. The Philosophers weren't founded for WWII. They died closer to 80 years before [=MGS2=], though.]]
* If [[spoiler:the Colonel was an AI in [=MGS2=]]] was he the same in [=MGS1=]?

** It's worth noting that the Colonel in [=MGS2=] isn't necessarily ''just'' an AI. Raiden has had his very ''brain'' messed with. Otacon says, "The Colonel is in part your own creation, cobbled together from your hopes and expectations."

* Why didn't Raiden go ahead of Emma in [=MGS2=], or ''test'' to see if it could hold them both, then go across the bridge next to her? If he went ahead of her, he could've taken out everything in her way so she could walk across all dandy and he could possibly be in a better position to [[spoiler: save her from Vamp before she could get shanked.]] If it could hold them both and they both went across, Raiden could even ''better'' protect Emma from the things trying to kill her on the bridge [[spoiler: AND from getting Vamp'd]], since he'd be right next to her and able to [[spoiler: shoot Vamp in the face on reflex]]. And before you tell me that going across together was impossible from the get go, let me remind you that it was able to hold Snake ''carrying'' Emma, and I'm pretty sure Snake weighs a little ''more'' than Raiden. Did Kojima just feel like putting some sniping in the game or what?

* What would have happened if Kojima actually died for all the death threats he received because he refused to continue the series AFTER [=MGS2=]? Would the game be remembered as the piece of postmodern art that it is? Would the people who did the threats be STUPID enough to believe that with him dead they could obtain a worthy sequel? Were people really THAT dense in not getting that Kojima wanted to test their ability to choose on their own?

*** And don't waste your time on things you're not good at even if they're more glamorous, as it's a recipe for failure.