History Headscratchers / Joker2019

** Despite initially claiming to like Arthur, his boss clearly doesn't with the sign incident having him be prebiased against anything what Arthur says because he is inherently untrustworthy as a mental patient, not even Arthur's heavy bruises seemed to convince him.

** How is that judging him unfairly? He brought a gun in a children hospital and lied by saying it was a prop when asked why he has a gun on him. Even if he throws Randall under the bus how is the boss supposed to believe him when he tries to dodge the fault altogether on instinct because he knew he'll lose the job if he tells the truth? Plus he did bring the gun in the children hospital the same way he started dancing with it and shot the wall it's not something he did for no purpose he did wanted to carry the gun for self-defense even though it's a firing offense if he is caught with it. Arthur can't blame all his decision on other people being dicks or his illnesses some are his own poor judgement, like not reporting the beatdown to the store owner or calling the cops about it.

** How is that judging him unfairly? He brought a gun in a children hospital and lied by saying it was a prop when asked why he has a gun on him. Even if he throws Randall under the bus how is the boss supposed to believe him when he tries to dodge the fault altogether on instinct because he knew he'll lose the job if he tells the truth? Plus he did bring the gun in the children hospital the same way he started dancing with it and shot the wall it's not something he did for no purpose he did wanted to carry the gun for self-defense even though it's a firing offense if he is caught with it.

* When Arthur's boss fired him over the gun, how come Arthur didn't mention Randall giving the gun to him because he was told to have it for self-defense? Better yet, why didn't he mention that Randall was the one who brought the gun to work in the first place so that Randall would also lose his job, too? I know it makes sense to fire Arthur because they don't want to put others at risk, but his boss already knows Arthur doesn't think like most people, so shouldn't he have asked him where he had gotten the gun from instead of assuming Arthur brought it on purpose? It was already bad enough he blamed Arthur for stealing the sign after those teens broke it. Does he just not like Arthur? Also, how come Arthur's boss wasn't on his kill list, since he was also among the people who had judged him unfairly?

* When Arthur's boss fired him over the gun, how come Arthur didn't mention Randall giving the gun to him because he was told to have it for self-defense? Better yet, why didn't he mention that Randall was the one who brought the gun to work in the first place so that Randall would also lose his job, too? I know it makes sense to fire him because they don't want to put their audience at risk, but his boss already knows Arthur doesn't think like most people, so shouldn't he have asked him where he had gotten the gun from instead of assuming Arthur brought it on purpose?

* When Arthur's boss fired him over the gun, how come Arthur didn't mention Randall giving the gun to him because he believed it'd be for self-defense? Better yet, why didn't he mention that Randall was the one who brought the gun to work in the first place so that Randall would also lose his job, too? I know it makes sense to fire him because they don't want to put their audience at risk, but his boss already knows Arthur doesn't think like most people, so shouldn't he have asked him where he had gotten the gun from instead of assuming Arthur brought it on purpose?

* When Arthur's boss fired him over the gun, how come Arthur didn't mention Randall giving the gun to him because he believed it'd be for self-defense? Better yet, when didn't he mention that Randall was the one who brought the gun to work in the first place so that Randall would also lose his job, too?

** It's not a car you buy it you keep it even if your financial situation worsens. Penny used to work for the Wayne she could have afford it then because it was a pretty good purchase to avoid missed calls.

* Arthur and his mother live in poverty, so how could they afford to own both an answering machine and a videocassette recorder in 1981?

** The pillow is crushing the tube, probably the nose too.

** Also -- and this may seem like a cop-out, but -- UnreliableNarrator is at play here. The entire ending, after all, plays like a deranged and alienated man's ultimate fantasy -- he publicly gets even with everyone who ever humiliated him, murders a famous celebrity live on national television, and not only does everyone love him, he inspires a mass movement that seems to worship him. A key point of the movie is that it gradually becomes clear that we cannot entirely trust anything we've seen. After all, Arthur's delusions invent an entire romantic subplot that turns out to have only been in his head. While some version of these events may have happened, there's no concrete evidence that they played out in any way like we see in the film, they could just be what Arthur believes / wishes happened. For all we know, Arthur never shot Murray Franklin at all.

** Also -- and this may seem like a cop-out, but -- UnreliableNarrator is at play here. The entire ending, after all, plays like a deranged and alienated man's ultimate fantasy -- he publicly gets even everyone who humiliated him, murders a famous celebrity live on national television, and not only does everyone love him, he inspires a mass movement that seems to worship him. A key point of the movie is that it gradually becomes clear that we cannot entirely trust anything we've seen. After all, Arthur's delusions invent an entire romantic subplot that turns out to have only been in his head. While some version of these events may have happened, there's no concrete evidence that they played out in any way like we see in the film, they could just be what Arthur believes / wishes happened. For all we know, Arthur never shot Murray Franklin at all.

* Murray Franklin acts like a complete idiot at the end of the movie. Arthur is clearly unstable and wears the terrifying clown makeup, but Franklin never screens him for weapons. As the show starts, Franklin keeps talking to him as he begins a nihilistic rant and starts implicitly threatening him, rather than run or call security, [[spoiler: resulting in his death]]. Especially considering the tense situation in Gotham at this time, why on earth didn't Franklin screen Arthur or leave when it was clearly going south on him?
** The same reason [[spoiler: the Waynes are apparently dim enough to go see Zorro in the middle of a city-consuming riot against the upper class. Also, Arthur doesn't seem inherently unstable at first - when they meet he's just an enthusiastic fan, and based on the footage he played Arthur is just incredibly awkward and sad; it's arguably not clear until it's too late that Arthur is actually a danger]].

*** ** Then there's his word, an unemployed mental patient who'd just been fired from his job for bringing a gun to a children ward, that he needed to defend himself with lethal force from three upstanding upper-class businessmen with their well-off families and the Wayne company backing them in a court case.

** There were bullets in the bag with the (there could have been 15-20 or more in there)gun.He only carried the gun with enough to fill the chambers but did'nt carry extra. On the subway, he simply used up all the bullets that were in the gun and did'nt reload. He simply could have reloaded later with some bullets he left at home.

* When Arthur smothers his mother in the hospital, she's wearing a nasal cannula presumably hooked up to oxygen - how did she asphyxiate?

** He's like his buddy, sometimes he's called Batman, other times "The Batman."

* This is so very nitpicky, but why is it just "Joker" and not "The Joker"? It's kind of jarring that Arthur never gets the "the", honestly.

** There were bullets in the bag with the (there could have been 15-20 or more in there)gun.He only carried the gun with enough to fill the chambers but did'nt carry extra. On the subway, he simply used up all the bullets that were in the gun and did'nt reload. He simply could have reloaded later with some bullets he left at home.

* Where does he get the bullets? We saw that Arthur ran out of ammo during the subway scene, but then he had some when going on TV. I get the "unreliable narrator" and "some of it isn't real" thing, but he clearly did kill both the Wall Street guys and the TV host... unless ''everything'' had been just a dream.

*** Given Arthur is also an unreliable narrator - like his relationship with his neighbour and the circumstances under which he got the gun - it's also difficult to discern whether he ''was'' actually attacked first.

** The first two, arguably very true. But the third guy is already wounded and running away. That’s murder in most jurisdictions. Plus, Arthur isn’t allowed to own a gun— so he’d go down for that at least. And that’s assuming Arthur is in a right enough state of mind to think it all through; he might just be running in a blind panic.

* The 3 guys in the subway attacked Arthur first. Couldn't he tell the cops he killed them in self-defense?

* The 3 guys in the subway attacked Arthur first. Couldn't he tell the cops he killed him in self-defense?

* The 3 guys in the subway attacked Arthur first. Couldn't he tell the cops it was self defense? Gotham is a crime-infested cesspool, after all.

* How would Arthur and Bruce's rivalry work in the future? Arthur will be an old man by the time Bruce becomes the dark knight.

* Murray Franklin acts like a complete idiot at the end of the movie. Arthur is clearly unstable and wears the terrifying clown makeup, but Franklin never screens him for weapons. As the show starts, Franklin keeps talking to him as he begins a nihilistic rant and starts implicitly threatening him, rather than run or call security, [[spoiler: resulting in his death]]. Especially considering the tense situation in Gotham at this time, why on earth didn't Franklin screen Arthur or leave when it was clearly going south on him?