Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 608 (click to see context) from:
** Unfortunately, the movie ''does'' show that the guitar is regularly kept in the shrine; when Miguel first picks it up, he wipes a layer of dust off its face.
to:
*** Yes, but even that doesn't mean that the guitar is kept in the tomb outside of the holiday. It just means it isn't cleaned regularly.
Added DiffLines:
** One other thing that discredits the feasibility of stealing the guitar is that you'd either have to A.) smuggle a guitar case into the shrine without attracting notice from all the people outside, or B.)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** Even if Miguel had done an internet search, there is no concrete way to tell that someone ''didn't'' have a wife via the internet, so what would it have told him? He has the supposed proof in his hand; if he didn't find it online, he'd just assume that a record of it was never officially preserved.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** In addition, nothing in the movie says specifically that Héctor's issue with "Remember Me" ties back to Coco. That's just a well-liked fan theory because it makes his objection more meaningful. All he says at the time is that "Remember Me" is overplayed and an obvious choice, and he's right. Regardless of any sentimental value either sing has, it's still wiser for Miguel to go with something the audience is less likely to have heard already.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** In Héctor's defense, he isn't obligated to put any more thought into it; if he doesn't want Ernesto to play his songs, he's well within his rights to say so. But beyond that, the film only works when certain characters act in contrived or unrealistic ways in service to the plot -- Ernesto has to be a complete sociopath who's in line with murdering his best friend over every other conceivable option, just like Imelda has to assume her well-meaning husband willingly abandoned her, and her descendants have to be willing to carry on an irrational hatred of music because of her misjudgment.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* There’s another thing that has always bothered me, however, and that is why it was even necessary for Ernesto to kill Héctor at all. Mexico has hundreds, thousands of songwriters, any of whom would dream to be paired up with a man as charismatic and vocally talented as Ernesto De La Cruz. Why kill Héctor, and not just buy the rights to perform his songs? And when those run out, he could hire another songwriter and probably be just as successful as he was before. Then Héctor would have enough money to support his family, as he would continue earning royalties from the songs, and Ernesto would get the fame he always wanted without having blood on his hands. All of this could have been resolved rather easily if both Ernesto and Héctor had stopped to think it through.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 46,47 (click to see context) from:
* Yeah, I get puzzled as to how the heck Hector's family '''''didn't''''' know the real reason why Hector isn't coming back. Isn't there missing persons report in the 1920s or something? If a relative of mine unexpectedly vanished without trace, I would just alert the police and file the missing person's report. And how come Imelda didn't think of calling the police and file a missing persons report?
to:
* Yeah, I get puzzled as to how the heck Hector's family '''''didn't''''' know the real reason why Hector isn't coming back. Isn't there missing persons report in the 1920s or something? If a relative of mine unexpectedly vanished without trace, I would just alert the police and file the missing person's report. And report which brings me to another question: how come Imelda didn't think of calling the police and file a missing persons report?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 46,47 (click to see context) from:
* Yeah, I get puzzled as to how the heck Hector's family '''''didn't''''' know the real reason why Hector isn't coming back. Isn't there missing persons report in the 1920s or something? If a relative of mine unexpectedly vanished without trace, I would just alert the police and file the missing person's report.
to:
* Yeah, I get puzzled as to how the heck Hector's family '''''didn't''''' know the real reason why Hector isn't coming back. Isn't there missing persons report in the 1920s or something? If a relative of mine unexpectedly vanished without trace, I would just alert the police and file the missing person's report. \n And how come Imelda didn't think of calling the police and file a missing persons report?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 46,47 (click to see context) from:
* Yeah, I get puzzled as to how the heck Hector's family '''''didn't''''' know the real reason why Hector isn't coming back. Isn't there missing persons report in the 1920s or something?
to:
* Yeah, I get puzzled as to how the heck Hector's family '''''didn't''''' know the real reason why Hector isn't coming back. Isn't there missing persons report in the 1920s or something?
something? If a relative of mine unexpectedly vanished without trace, I would just alert the police and file the missing person's report.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 46,47 (click to see context) from:
* Yeah, I get puzzled as to how the heck Hector's family *didn't* know the real reason why Hector isn't coming back. Isn't there missing persons report in the 1920s or something?
to:
* Yeah, I get puzzled as to how the heck Hector's family *didn't* '''''didn't''''' know the real reason why Hector isn't coming back. Isn't there missing persons report in the 1920s or something?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* Yeah, I get puzzled as to how the heck Hector's family *didn't* know the real reason why Hector isn't coming back. Isn't there missing persons report in the 1920s or something?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
dewicking finaldeath per trs
Changed line(s) 466 (click to see context) from:
** It was 50 years before Imelda died, so by the time she got to the Land of the Dead, she had pretty much cemented herself into the routine of furiously shooing away anything that reminded her of Héctor. And it can be assumed by the fact that Shantytown was in a secluded sector of the Land of the Dead that the remembered would prefer not to worry themselves with the prospect of being forgotten by the living. What that means is that Imelda would not have been aware of the concept of the FinalDeath even after she crossed over.
to:
** It was 50 years before Imelda died, so by the time she got to the Land of the Dead, she had pretty much cemented herself into the routine of furiously shooing away anything that reminded her of Héctor. And it can be assumed by the fact that Shantytown was in a secluded sector of the Land of the Dead that the remembered would prefer not to worry themselves with the prospect of being forgotten by the living. What that means is that Imelda would not have been aware of the concept of the FinalDeath being DeaderThanDead even after she crossed over.
Changed line(s) 557 (click to see context) from:
** I took it to mean that, because Miguel didn't know Chicharron in life or personally, he can't really bring him back from the final death, as he doesn't have any memories of him prior or anything of Chicharron's to put on ofrenda, and neither does he know Chicharron's relatives, likewise, the FinalDeath is well, like usual death, permanent. In terms of Héctor knowing about the Final Death, well, he's been in the Land of the Dead for as long as he's been dead, thus he's probably seen it happen enough times.
to:
** I took it to mean that, because Miguel didn't know Chicharron in life or personally, he can't really bring him back from the final death, as he doesn't have any memories of him prior or anything of Chicharron's to put on ofrenda, and neither does he know Chicharron's relatives, likewise, the FinalDeath [[Final Death DeaderThanDead]] is well, like usual death, permanent. In terms of Héctor knowing about the Final Death, well, he's been in the Land of the Dead for as long as he's been dead, thus he's probably seen it happen enough times.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** It’s also fairly possible Héctor wasn’t Ernesto’s first victim, and a family member of the victim had already said something but no one believed them. Until Miguel and his family came with the same accusations.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** Or it was the opposite: Héctor called stick-figure Miguel ''gordinto'' as a joke. [[DontExplainTheJoke Because, you know, it's ironic]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 503 (click to see context) from:
*** It was also famous song by Ernesto (you know what I mean). Miguel could easily lie and say that he picked it at random and just "got lucky at the coincidence".
to:
*** It was also famous song by Ernesto (you know what I mean). Miguel could easily lie and say that he picked it at random / thought it was an appropiate song given the lyrics and just "got lucky at the coincidence".
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 503 (click to see context) from:
*** It was also a song made famous by Ernesto. Miguel could easily lie and say that he learned it from the Internet or from someone in the plaza.
to:
*** It was also a song made famous song by Ernesto. Ernesto (you know what I mean). Miguel could easily lie and say that he learned picked it from at random and just "got lucky at the Internet or from someone in the plaza.coincidence".
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** It was also a song made famous by Ernesto. Miguel could easily lie and say that he learned it from the Internet or from someone in the plaza.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** In some fairness to Imelda, she could be forgiven slightly for assuming that Héctor had some other family or friends, perhaps those he'd made while he was on tour, who could remember him without the Riveras needing to. Or she thought that he could subsist off of the limited memories that she had allowed to be passed down -- that he was a musician, and that he (in a certain sense) abandoned his family. It wasn't until Miguel came along that she realized Coco's memories were the only ones strong enough to keep him from fading.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** Likely through the remaining living relatives. The dead relatives could know which one of their living relatives was pregnant recently and find the child that way. Might be getting a bit into WildMassGuessing, but nothing suggests families in The Land of the Dead can't oversee their living relatives. Only that they can't visit them outside of the holiday.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 752 (click to see context) from:
** “Gordito” is specifically “gordo” (fat, thick) with the -ito diminutive attached. It’s probably supposed to be a bit of a mildly offensive AffectionateNickname in the moment, or supposed to be interpreted more along the lines of “big guy” in English.[[/folder]]
to:
** “Gordito” is specifically “gordo” (fat, thick) with the -ito diminutive attached. It’s probably supposed to be a bit of a mildly offensive AffectionateNickname in the moment, or supposed to be interpreted more along the lines of “big guy” in English.English.
** Could also be that even someone as skinny as Miguel would be considered meaty or pudgy to a guy who's literally nothing but bones. Maybe Héctor was just cracking a joke at Miguel's non-skeletal-ness.
[[/folder]]
** Could also be that even someone as skinny as Miguel would be considered meaty or pudgy to a guy who's literally nothing but bones. Maybe Héctor was just cracking a joke at Miguel's non-skeletal-ness.
[[/folder]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 752 (click to see context) from:
[[/folder]]
to:
** “Gordito” is specifically “gordo” (fat, thick) with the -ito diminutive attached. It’s probably supposed to be a bit of a mildly offensive AffectionateNickname in the moment, or supposed to be interpreted more along the lines of “big guy” in English.[[/folder]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[folder: Chubby-wubby]]
* During their "Un Poco Loco" performance, there's a point where Héctor calls Miguel "gordito". I was curious, so a quick run through Google Translate shows that it means "chubby". Why would Héctor call Miguel that when he's not even remotely pudgy or fat?
[[/folder]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 645 (click to see context) from:
** The audience shielded her from full-on agression from the guards and Ernesto. At the very least she could hope Ernesto would not compromise himself by fighting a defenseless woman in front of camera - she would cry for help and the police itself could intervene. That's why the guards hesitate and even shy away from open confrontation.
to:
** The audience shielded her from full-on agression from the guards and Ernesto. At the very least she could hope Ernesto would not compromise himself by fighting a defenseless woman in front of camera - she would cry for help and the if there was at least one police itself could intervene.officer in the crowd there would be many uncomfortable questions. That's why the guards hesitate and even shy away from open confrontation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** The audience shielded her from full-on agression from the guards and Ernesto. At the very least she could hope Ernesto would not compromise himself by fighting a defenseless woman in front of camera - she would cry for help and the police itself could intervene. That's why the guards hesitate and even shy away from open confrontation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** Also, Coco was at most 3-4 when Héctor last sang Remember Me for her. She may have been curious if she heard it during her adulthood, but she must have rationalized (if she bothered to) that he didn't actually write the song, but heard somewhere else and sang for her as a lullaby. Imelda probably didn't care enough to think either, but could have thought he sold the song.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** It's been mentioned up in the "Injuries after Death" folder above that you likely enter the Land of the Dead with a skeleton body that represents how you identify (the example used is that if you have a bum leg in life that you don't accept as part of your "true self," then you'll have two healthy legs in the Land of the Dead). Running with this, it doesn't seem unreasonable that you'd formulate in the Land of the Dead with the same hairstyle you had in life. As for why it's a wig, well, that's just part of the whole "detachable body" aesthetic.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[folder: Wigs]]
* I know, I know, it's a dumb question that doesn't factor into anything, but I'm curious about it. Are the people in the Land of the Dead meant to be wearing wigs? That's what seems to be the case, since they're shown to be removable at several points, but does that mean that every skeleton is technically bald when they arrive in the Land of the Dead, or do their skeletal bodies come complete with a detachable hairstyle that matched the one they had when they were alive?
[[/folder]]
* I know, I know, it's a dumb question that doesn't factor into anything, but I'm curious about it. Are the people in the Land of the Dead meant to be wearing wigs? That's what seems to be the case, since they're shown to be removable at several points, but does that mean that every skeleton is technically bald when they arrive in the Land of the Dead, or do their skeletal bodies come complete with a detachable hairstyle that matched the one they had when they were alive?
[[/folder]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
**** They don't look the same age. Imelda looks a bit taller, her face is broader, her hair has streaks of grey, and her voice most importantly sounds very noticably aged compared to his.
Added DiffLines:
** It's also symbolic. (Or something to that effect.) Miguel's family is so concerned with Miguel's well-being that they don't realize where his passion really lies; hence why they're searching the crowd instead of recognizing him right there on stage. In that sense, it shows how blind they are, and that in a certain sense, Héctor understands and relates to Miguel in a way they don't. He also wants Miguel to be safe, but he still doesn't try to dissuade him from something he cares about so long as the two don't conflict.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** Also, some cannot stand their families, sometimes mutually, to the point of removing them from ofrendas. They may staff the office with such people.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** That was Héctor who said that, but it was more in response to Ernesto not letting Miguel go home to the Land of the Living, since he will die if he doesn't get back before sunrise.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
*** It's also possible that there needs to be at least some minimum level of Intent associated with the act of remembering someone. You have to not only remember or pass down stories about the person, you have to desire that those memories and stories keep them alive.
