Follow TV Tropes

Following

History Headscratchers / BatmanForever

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Why cast a grown man to play a teenager? If you're going to choose an older actor to play a teenager, why not cast an 16-18 year old for the part?

to:

* Why cast a grown man to play a teenager? If you're going to choose an older actor to play a teenager, why not cast an a 16-18 year old for the part?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The movie portrays it more as a "shot in the dark". Bruce has had all but one of these riddles for days and figured out that the only connection between them was the numbers, so the "1 and 8 are 18" thing was more of an "eh, probably rubbish, but let's try it", and as it happens it was true (and of course, Nygma designed it to be so). It's just an intuitive guess on his part, and by luck it happens to be right, but it isn't ''that'' much of a stretch considering he's spent days pondering them already and in the scene in question seemed prepared to spend the rest of the night throwing out random ideas and seeing what stuck, though at least now he saw that the numbers were the key.

to:

** The movie portrays it more as a "shot in the dark". Bruce has had all but one of these riddles for days and figured out that the only connection between them was the numbers, so the "1 and 8 are 18" thing was more of an "eh, probably rubbish, but let's try it", and as it happens it was true (and of course, Nygma designed it to be so). It's just an intuitive guess on his part, and by luck it happens to be right, but it isn't ''that'' much of a stretch considering he's spent days pondering them already and in the scene in question seemed prepared to spend the rest of the night throwing out random ideas and seeing what stuck, though at least now he saw that the numbers were the key.key.

* Why cast a grown man to play a teenager? If you're going to choose an older actor to play a teenager, why not cast an 16-18 year old for the part?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** It's a movie shortcut. Running through the other options he would have got N.H.E or M.A.N (arguably at least meaning something) but M.R.E gives you a better standing since Mr. E is obviously more specific than MAN and when you say it outloud the "mystery" is a pretty easy conclusion to make. The point being we're not given Bruce's internal process but only the result of the deduction in the movie.

to:

** It's a movie shortcut. Running through the other options he would have got N.H.E or M.A.N (arguably at least meaning something) but M.R.E gives you a better standing since Mr. E is obviously more specific than MAN and when you say it outloud the "mystery" is a pretty easy conclusion to make. The point being we're not given Bruce's internal process but only the result of the deduction in the movie.movie.
** The movie portrays it more as a "shot in the dark". Bruce has had all but one of these riddles for days and figured out that the only connection between them was the numbers, so the "1 and 8 are 18" thing was more of an "eh, probably rubbish, but let's try it", and as it happens it was true (and of course, Nygma designed it to be so). It's just an intuitive guess on his part, and by luck it happens to be right, but it isn't ''that'' much of a stretch considering he's spent days pondering them already and in the scene in question seemed prepared to spend the rest of the night throwing out random ideas and seeing what stuck, though at least now he saw that the numbers were the key.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

*** But Two-Face wasn't going to even then. Batman had to remind him to use the coin, which he could have done at any time. Evidently all it takes is to say something, and Two-Face will stop what he's doing, thank you, and give it a flip.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** Another question answered by the Novelization. He had an interest in riddles as a kid, and the school bully didn't like it when Edward stumped him with one. He beat him up so badly he accidentally cracked his skull and sent him into a coma. Earlier that day he'd read a newspaper report on the Waynes' murder, complete with a photograph of a crying Bruce, and thought Bruce might be similar to him. The last things he saw before going unconscious were his book of riddles, and the photograph, and when he finally awoke, he was never quite right again, and his ''interest'' in both of those things had turned into an ''obsession''.




to:

** Something else that was used in early drafts and the Novelization: when he makes it to Riddler's throne room, he charges forward, but notices Two-Face just quietly chuckling, and stops, realizing something's wrong. He uses the sonar to discover that between him and the villains is the pit the leads to the ocean, and it's been disguised with a hologram. Without the sonar (and Harvey's inability to keep a poker face), he probably would have fallen in.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* In the scene after Chase has been captured and the Batcave has been destroyed, Alfred and Bruce have all the riddles he's been sent gathered and are trying to deduce a pattern. They deduce that each one has a number (12, 1, 8 & 5), and that each one correlates to a letter of the alphabet (M, A, H & E). Why on earth would Bruce just throw out that 1 & 8 could be put together to make 18 and thusly stand for R to make M R E? Like, out of any of the numbers you could put together, you just decide "Oh, I'll put the middle ones together and that'll solve the riddle"? I understand he's Batman and he's been sent riddles by the Riddler, but still. It always seemed like too much of an ass-pull.

to:

* In the scene after Chase has been captured and the Batcave has been destroyed, Alfred and Bruce have all the riddles he's been sent gathered and are trying to deduce a pattern. They deduce that each one has a number (12, 1, 8 & 5), and that each one correlates to a letter of the alphabet (M, A, H & E). Why on earth would Bruce just throw out that 1 & 8 could be put together to make 18 and thusly stand for R to make M R E? Like, out of any of the numbers you could put together, you just decide "Oh, I'll put the middle ones together and that'll solve the riddle"? I understand he's Batman and he's been sent riddles by the Riddler, but still. It always seemed like too much of an ass-pull.ass-pull.
** It's a movie shortcut. Running through the other options he would have got N.H.E or M.A.N (arguably at least meaning something) but M.R.E gives you a better standing since Mr. E is obviously more specific than MAN and when you say it outloud the "mystery" is a pretty easy conclusion to make. The point being we're not given Bruce's internal process but only the result of the deduction in the movie.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
I just wanna understand


* What was the point of the SONAR Batsuit at the end of the movie? He threw a grappling hook at a Mook while being grappled himself by another mook at the beginning, he clearly doesn't need SONAR for throwing a Batarang at a ''giant obvious weakpoint'' in Nygma's lair. TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot as well, since he could have used the SONAR for finding Robin after being jettisoned into the water. Alas.

to:

* What was the point of the SONAR Batsuit at the end of the movie? He threw a grappling hook at a Mook while being grappled himself by another mook at the beginning, he clearly doesn't need SONAR for throwing a Batarang at a ''giant obvious weakpoint'' in Nygma's lair. TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot as well, since he could have used the SONAR for finding Robin after being jettisoned into the water. Alas.Alas.

*In the scene after Chase has been captured and the Batcave has been destroyed, Alfred and Bruce have all the riddles he's been sent gathered and are trying to deduce a pattern. They deduce that each one has a number (12, 1, 8 & 5), and that each one correlates to a letter of the alphabet (M, A, H & E). Why on earth would Bruce just throw out that 1 & 8 could be put together to make 18 and thusly stand for R to make M R E? Like, out of any of the numbers you could put together, you just decide "Oh, I'll put the middle ones together and that'll solve the riddle"? I understand he's Batman and he's been sent riddles by the Riddler, but still. It always seemed like too much of an ass-pull.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** You still need an opportunity to exploit it. Up until then, Two-Face hadn't given Batman an opportunity where he could turn the coin-flip to his advantage.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Batman states in the scene where Chase tries to seduce him that he knows Two-Face's obsession with his coin could be exploited as a weakness. So why does Batman not only wait half a dozen encounters with Two-Face later to use the trick, but wait until it was a lethal situation and decide not to follow up the distraction with one of the mook-rangling gadgets we've seen him use earlier in the movie that could safely rope Two-Face to one of the nearby steel beams?

to:

* Batman states in the scene where Chase tries to seduce him that he knows Two-Face's obsession with his coin could be exploited as a weakness. So why does Batman not only wait half a dozen encounters with Two-Face later to use the trick, but wait until it was a lethal situation and decide not to follow up the distraction with one of the mook-rangling gadgets we've seen him use earlier in the movie that could safely rope Two-Face to one of the nearby steel beams?beams?

* What was the point of the SONAR Batsuit at the end of the movie? He threw a grappling hook at a Mook while being grappled himself by another mook at the beginning, he clearly doesn't need SONAR for throwing a Batarang at a ''giant obvious weakpoint'' in Nygma's lair. TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot as well, since he could have used the SONAR for finding Robin after being jettisoned into the water. Alas.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

*** Either of those disorders would have been okay explanations, but the movie never brings either up or tries to tie the riddles into his pathos at all.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** Some people just like riddles? Maybe he had OCD or asperger's syndrome?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** Stickley, Edward's boss, told him to terminate the project, so it was pretty clear that until it could be a proven money-maker, absolutely no one but Edward cared enough to patent it.


Added DiffLines:

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* What was Edward's fascination with leaving riddles? All we hear about it is that he does it because he's obsessed with Bruce, but why is he so attached to riddles? Why not just notes of admiration and/or hatred? I get that eventually he has to become the Riddler, but still...

to:

* What was Edward's fascination with leaving riddles? All we hear about it is that he does it because he's obsessed with Bruce, but why is he so attached to riddles? Why not just notes of admiration and/or hatred? I get that eventually he has to become the Riddler, but still...still...

* Batman states in the scene where Chase tries to seduce him that he knows Two-Face's obsession with his coin could be exploited as a weakness. So why does Batman not only wait half a dozen encounters with Two-Face later to use the trick, but wait until it was a lethal situation and decide not to follow up the distraction with one of the mook-rangling gadgets we've seen him use earlier in the movie that could safely rope Two-Face to one of the nearby steel beams?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* What was Edward's fascination with leaving riddles? All we hear about it is that he does it because he's obsessed with Bruce, but why riddles? Why not just notes of admiration and/or hatred?

to:

* What was Edward's fascination with leaving riddles? All we hear about it is that he does it because he's obsessed with Bruce, but why is he so attached to riddles? Why not just notes of admiration and/or hatred?hatred? I get that eventually he has to become the Riddler, but still...
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The Novelization has some lawyers bring this up to Bruce, but he says taking Nygma to court would look too much like sour grapes. And, though this is implied and not stated outright, he wants to give Nygma enough rope to hang himself.

to:

** The Novelization has some lawyers bring this up to Bruce, but he says taking Nygma to court would look too much like sour grapes. And, though this is implied and not stated outright, he wants to give Nygma enough rope to hang himself.himself.

* What was Edward's fascination with leaving riddles? All we hear about it is that he does it because he's obsessed with Bruce, but why riddles? Why not just notes of admiration and/or hatred?

Added: 479

Changed: 1

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** He did it because both he and Dick have now seen their parents murdered by a maniac in front of their eyes. Bruce probably gives a lot of money and support to orphans and charities, but he took in Dick because what happened there hit close to home.

to:

*** He did it because both he and Dick have now seen their parents murdered by a maniac in front of their eyes. Bruce probably gives a lot of money and support to orphans and charities, but he took in Dick because what happened there hit close to home. home.
**It's implied, if not outright stated, that Bruce puts a fair amount of blame on himself, as Two-Face and Batman are rivals at this point, and Two-Face's actions that night, trying to flush out Batman, led to the Graysons' deaths. Taking it further, Bruce, as Batman, was unable to stop the mobster from throwing acid in Harvey Dent's face, so Bruce probably blames himself for Two-Face's existence in the first place. Taking Dick as his ward is a means of atoning for all that.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** He had just invented it and hadn't filed for a patent yet, and Bruce Wayne himself said that the company didn't want to get involved in brain-wave technology.

to:

** He had just invented it and hadn't filed for a patent yet, and Bruce Wayne himself said that the company didn't want to get involved in brain-wave technology.technology.
** The Novelization has some lawyers bring this up to Bruce, but he says taking Nygma to court would look too much like sour grapes. And, though this is implied and not stated outright, he wants to give Nygma enough rope to hang himself.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** He had just invented it and hadn't filed for a patent yet, and Bruce Wayne himself said that the company didn't want to get involved in brain-wave technology.

Changed: 153

Removed: 298

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Why the hell does Gotham City have its own currency?
** Did nobody ''notice'' Edward Nygma chatting rather amiably with Two-Face at the penthouse party?

** Lampshaded by the {{Novelization}}. Bruce's corporate lawyers advise him of this and tell him to take Nygma to court, but Bruce declines; he says it would look too much like "sour grapes." And, although this is implied and not stated outright, he wants to give Nygma enough rope to hang himself.

to:

* Why the hell does Gotham City have its own currency?
** Did nobody ''notice'' Edward Nygma chatting rather amiably with Two-Face at the penthouse party?

** Lampshaded by the {{Novelization}}. Bruce's corporate lawyers advise him of this and tell him to take Nygma to court, but Bruce declines; he says it would look too much like "sour grapes." And, although this is implied and not stated outright, he wants to give Nygma enough rope to hang himself.



Added DiffLines:

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** The problem is, Wayne Manor seems to be in the middle of nowhere. Even if the Manor grounds are entirely safe (as it happens, they aren't), it still looks like its a mile or two away from the rest of civilization.

to:

** The problem is, Wayne Manor seems to be in the middle of nowhere. Even if the Manor grounds are entirely safe (as it happens, they aren't), it still looks like its a mile or two away from the rest of civilization.civilization.
* Why the hell does Gotham City have its own currency?
** Did nobody ''notice'' Edward Nygma chatting rather amiably with Two-Face at the penthouse party?

** Lampshaded by the {{Novelization}}. Bruce's corporate lawyers advise him of this and tell him to take Nygma to court, but Bruce declines; he says it would look too much like "sour grapes." And, although this is implied and not stated outright, he wants to give Nygma enough rope to hang himself.
* Edward's apartment and cubicle is adorned with bobbleheads and fortune teller machines of a guy that's dressed in a green suit with question marks all over it; He even takes the jacket and hat from the fortune teller machine when he meets up with Two-Face for the first time. Who is this guy?
** This one comes from earlier script drafts, but was lost in the final cut. In those drafts, this pixie-like figure was called the "Guesser", and he probably served as the ''Gotham Globe's'' puzzles-page mascot (it's never stated what his function was). Apparently, he was popular enough that merchandise was made in his image, and his likeness licensed out for fortune-telling animatronics.
* Who the Hell puts a deaf man in charge of guarding a bank vault?
** He wasn't deaf. He had something to help his hearing, but he clearly wasn't deaf.
* How did Nygma make any money on the Box? Since he designed it while he was working at Wayne Enterprises, wouldn't WE have held the patent on the thing?.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*** I thought that was answered in the movie? He's supposed to be [[DawsonCasting Under 21]] and the law of whatever state Gotham is in is that kids under 21 are supposed to have a guardian, no exceptions.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** The bigger question is why he needed a new guardian. This version of Dick is clearly old enough to support himself.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** People were too busy panicking to notice. He could always pass it off by saying that he was trying to reason with him if anyone saw (which was technically true). Plus, the whole thing only lasted a few minutes.



** As above, everyone was panicking and the whole thing was over in a few minutes. Plus, most of Gotham already sees Bruce in a pretty heroic light, and Bruce beating up some thugs in a life-or-death situation doesn't mean he is Batman.



*** He did it because both he and Dick have now seen their parents murdered by a maniac in front of their eyes. Bruce probably gives a lot of money and support to orphans and charities, but he took in Dick because what happened there hit close to home.



*** Not to mention this is Wayne Manor - justified or not, people would probably be more comfortable being there as the Wayne family were well known, well liked, and lacking in any sort of scandal. Given that this Bruce was also more aware of the need to be Bruce as well as Batman, he's probably also started to make efforts to avoid seeming like a complete idiot with no day job.

to:

*** Not to mention this is Wayne Manor - justified or not, people would probably be more comfortable being there as the Wayne family were well known, well liked, and lacking in any sort of scandal. Given that this Bruce was also more aware of the need to be Bruce as well as Batman, he's probably also started to make efforts to avoid seeming like a complete idiot with no day job.job.
** The problem is, Wayne Manor seems to be in the middle of nowhere. Even if the Manor grounds are entirely safe (as it happens, they aren't), it still looks like its a mile or two away from the rest of civilization.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Headscratchers is for questions, not \"they got this element wrong\"






* In the movie, there is a scene where Two-Face keeps flipping his coin until he gets a result he wants. In the comics, a key element of his split personality is that he unquestioningly accepts the result of a single coin toss concerning any decision he makes.







Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
answering a Headscratcher question



to:

** Because if they didn't let Two-Face and Riddler punch them, they'd likely be shot and killed.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

***The question was not that but why Bruce Wayne took in just that one orphan and not any other orphan. Is he regularly a source for the police to drop off wards of the state?

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None



to:

** It's Gotham, the city of the legendarily corrupt. Bruce "multi-billionaire" Wayne asks, multi-billionaire gets, no questions asked. He probably didn't even have to bribe anyone, just his status would be enough for the corrupt civil service to roll over and acquiesce.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* In the movie, there is a scene where Two-Face keeps flipping his coin until he gets a result he wants. In the comics, a key element of his split personality is that he unquestioningly accepts the result of a single coin toss concerning any decision he makes.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:


*So it's completely normal for groups of kids to go trick-or-treating (without parental supervision) at Wayne Manor, even though it's on the outskirts of town?
**Parents don't have to be hovering over their kids' shoulders the whole time they're trick-or-treating. I don't know about your neighborhood, but in mine the parents often stood well back from their kids.
**In this tropers experience the presence of parents significantly hampers the feasibility of carrying out any nessecary tricks.
***Besides, everyone knows rich people will have the most candy!
***Not to mention this is Wayne Manor - justified or not, people would probably be more comfortable being there as the Wayne family were well known, well liked, and lacking in any sort of scandal. Given that this Bruce was also more aware of the need to be Bruce as well as Batman, he's probably also started to make efforts to avoid seeming like a complete idiot with no day job.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

*Wasn't it suspicious that Edward could be seen cavorting with Two Face during the launch party?

*Wasn't it suspicious that Bruce Wayne beat up all those goons in the circus?

*Why was Robin sent to Bruce Wayne instead of a foster home? If Bruce is willing to donate his 10 million spare rooms to put up orphans and Gothan knows this, how come they haven't sent anyone to Bruce before? Knowing that Gotham's a crapsack town, Wayne manor would be an orphenarium at that rate.

*Why did the security guards not mind being punched by the riddler?

Top