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* Why didn’t Klavier ever realize how suspicious Kristoph’s behavior was in the aftermath of Phoenix’s disbarment? Not only was Kristoph the only one to vote against disbarring Phoenix, but he went on to befriend him for several years before ultimately planning to defend him against a murder charge. All that after he’d told Klavier that Phoenix was an underhanded cheat and unworthy of any respect. Did the two of them fall out of touch after the Gramarye trial? Otherwise, how could Klavier have glossed over such blatant contradictions?
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** Meanwhile, the sixth game explains that Maya has been busy with spirit medium training in Khura’in for the past few years in preparation for becoming the Master. A conversation with Edgeworth likewise implies that Gumshoe is still on the force, but since Ema is the detective assigned to work under Prosecutor Gavin, it makes enough sense why Apollo never met him.

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** Considering he keeps a miniature piano in his hospital room for "practice" during the second case, I'd wager that he's practiced enough to keep the people at his venues happy, even if he can't play specific songs on request. He could be playing down his passable playing ability just as a joke, in this case.

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** Considering he keeps a miniature piano in his hospital room for "practice" during the second case, I'd wager that he's practiced enough to keep the people at his venues happy, even if he can't play specific songs on request. He could be Piano playing down his isn’t something you can just “fake” if you want people to think you do it for a living, so we have to assume that Phoenix is passable playing ability just at it and is underselling his level of skill as a joke, in this case.joke.


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** Even then, that’s mostly the court’s assumption based on what little information they know. He wouldn’t have needed to think Alita was dead to want to dump her unconscious body in the river.
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** It’s implied through the MASON system that Phoenix doesn’t think very highly of Shadi, and the whole of Triupe Gramarye, after what he’s been out through thanks to them. And with how Shadi had planned on going back into hiding after that night, Phoenix probably took the locket in order to sever all ties between him and Trucy, since he claims to have wanted to protect her from the controversies surrounding the troupe.

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I don’t think the first and last cases are that intrinsically linked to justify them sharing the same folder; it’s only the killer’s motive in the first case that has any relevance to the fourth one. The top of the page says it’s for post-viewing discussions, and there’s nothing under the first case’s heading as of yet that spoils the fourth case. I think the two can be separated for now.


NOTE: Since Cases 4-1 and 4-4 are heavily linked, no separate folder will be provided for 4-1.







[[folder:Turnabout Trump]]
* Phoenix blatantly admits to a crime and this is completely overlooked. Either the trump card is fake, making the evidence a forgery, or it's real, and Phoenix admitted to removing said card from the scene and giving it to his daughter.
** He doesn't actually lie once though. He's just making a subtle non-distinction with his wording. He's saying that he's taken the card and given it to his daughter, which is true. He didn't say he took it from the crime scene, and never actually calls it the missing ace. This actually mirrors something that happens in the fourth episode, when Phoenix produces a "forged" version of Kristoph's mail, but Apollo distinctly notes that it was simply Phoenix's replication of the mail. They weren't passing it off as the actual evidence. This is the exact same thing, except that Phoenix never directly makes the distinction, he just lets everyone, including Apollo, fall into the misconception. Depending on how good of a defense you can put up (aka how good your lawyer is), this can legitimately be enough of a defense against Phoenix having, legally, done anything wrong, not just in the wacko world of video game law, but even real life. Obviously there's a very big difference between morality and legality, which is why, morally speaking, Phoenix's actions are cast into doubt, even by Apollo himself. And this is also why Phoenix just up and admits "I forged evidence" after the trial, because morally speaking, that's what it still is. Morality doesn't run on technicalities, but legal ramifications often do (which Klavier, ironically, mentions to Kristoph later in the game).
** The fake card is basically used in the same manner as the phony bottle of poison from Turnabout Recipe in the third game, where it's used hypothetically in order to prove or support a particular notion or trick the real criminal into admitting something they shouldn't know. Like with Glen Elg's ear medicine, Phoenix initially claims that he took the card from the crime scene and gave it to Trucy, but when Kristoph protests to it, he points out that the real logic behind presenting the bloodied card is to provide a motive for the killer to have swapped it out. It's also a bit like the photo of Maya's spirit channeling abilities that Franziska presented in the second game; it's technically inadmissible as evidence, but it does open up the possibility that the court needs to consider.
* Why was the 5th ace taken? Logically speaking, would it have changed anything about the prosecutions case other than Phoenix's location when he did the deed? In fact it would make him look worse, because he'd have planned on sneak attacking him, which is worse than just doing it on the spur of the moment.
** I'd say panic. Kristoph was already in a rather compromising situation in case Zak decided to talk about the case that got Phoenix disbarred, so he had to kill him there to stop his reputation from being tarnished. But then he realized some blood dropped on an ace, so he hastily swapped cards, not realising there were two decks with different colors on the back (which is the real problem in this situation), and left.
** Because it cuts out the hidden passageway from the case and removes the possibility of someone else having done the deed. Kristoph is basically counting on keeping the room isolated to make ''someone'' inside that room be the guilty party.
* One thing I've never understood is why Phoenix took Shadi's locket. I suppose it might have interfered with the whole transfer of rights thing if it was found out who Shadi really was, but apparently just not having a successful trial was enough for it to be fine, so with Shadi already dead he obviously can't be charged with anything.
** In my head-canon, just because it had a picture of his daughter. Emotional value, nothing more.
* Whatever happened to the (real) fifth ace that the killer stole from the scene and Phoenix had forged?
** Given who it was, I assume he'd burn it, or something similar so it would never be found.
* How was it that no-one recognised Zak Gramarye apart from Phoenix and Kristoph, when he used to be famous?
** It's been 7 years. He's lost his hair, grown a beard, no doubt has several more wrinkles, and isn't wearing his rather distinctive magician's outfit. That last being a big point, too, I'd say: As Zak Gramarye, he was a 6'+ tall man in a pink silk hat and cape...it's really likely that that nobody would have recognised him out of costume even when he wasn't deliberately presenting himself as a different person, who was 7 years older and balder than when last seen.
* Why doesn't Apollo's bracelet react to Kristoph's TwitchyEye?
** Probably because his distress is so obvious at eye-twitching levels that he doesn't need the bracelet to make him aware of it.
* Why didn't Kristoph simply tell everyone that he'd seen "Shadi Smith's" bald head when he'd tipped his hat as they passed by after Gavin had left the club? This would have explained how he knew he was bald, without putting him AT the scene.
## Because his entire motive for murdering Shadi was to conceal his connection to the case from seven years ago, and falsely admitting that Shadi tipped his hat in greeting would suggest to the court that Shadi might have known Kristoph. Thereby defeating the purpose of the coverup.
## Because he wants to throw Phoenix under the bus now that Phoenix has begun to suspect him. He has to say he was at the crime scene in order to claim he saw Phoenix commit the crime.
## Because he already admitted to being at the crime scene anyway when he mentioned that the cards on the floor were blue.
* Why didn't Kristoph just reveal that the 5th ace is forged? If he's screwed either way, he might as well take Phoenix and Apollo with him.
** Kristoph did say Apollo was presenting illegal evidence when the fifth ace showed up. However, and likely because of his pride, he merely mocked Phoenix for doing that instead of accusing Phoenix and Apollo of using forged evidence as the serious offense it is. As a result, no one took Kristoph's words seriously nor realised the fifth ace was a forgery, and the topic is dropped almost immediately.
** Once he had already been caught, though, why not point it out again?
** Phoenix had basically already acknowledged that the fifth ace wasn't real evidence; he explains that it was presented only as a ''reason'' why the killer had to swap out a card. It's a wonder why Apollo still gets upset about it after the trial, in all honesty. It's not much different from the bottle of ear medicine from Case 3-3 or the detention center photograph from Case 2-2.
* After Shadi gets irate and hits Olga with the bottle, Phoenix goes to call for the police. Then he went back down, and found that Shadi was now dead. AKA, Phoenix actually called the police and reported Olga's assault, not Shadi's murder. Why, then, did no one seem to know that Olga had been assaulted, and why did everyone think that Phoenix called the police to report the murder?
** The call was probably a generic "someone was attacked, send help" call. Although you're typically held on the phone during a 911 call and made to relay info, people cutting the call off early isn't exactly uncommon. If my memory serves, Phoenix says during a cross-examination that he didn't want to leave the unconscious Olga alone with Shadi for too long (and cell phones don't get reception down there), so his call to the police was probably fairly short and to the point.
* Why didn't the bailiffs in the lobby do anything when the lawyer began physically attacking his client?
** There's nothing saying they didn't, keeping in mind the visual limiations of the medium. All Apollo gave Phoenix was one uppercut; the bailiffs could've stepped up to interfere before realizing that the altercation was basically over, especially since Phoenix didn't appear to hold it against him.
* Why did Phoenix dispose of the five of hearts card inside the bottle? Everyone brings up how strange that was for him to do, and Phoenix vaguely tells everyone that he had a reason for doing something random like that, but doesn't say what it was.
** Phoenix was playing a card game when he suddenly noticed a card in his pocket which he had no knowledge of. Then he either a) immediately figured out Shadi's plan and stepped out of his trap, or b)having learned something from seven years ago, he simply didn't want to get caught with anything that might suggest that he had cheated, even if he had no idea of the fact. Either way, he had to immediately dispose of the card, and he chose a way of doing it that 1) didn't attract any attention to himself, 2) didn't interrupt the game and 3) put the card in a place that wouldn't undergo a deep check by Shadi afterwards. It was just a response to Shadi's trap, and had nothing to do with the murder or the bottle swap, neither of which he could have predicted.
* People always point out (and Phoenix himself brings it up in-game) how Phoenix never told a single lie through the case; he was technically telling specifically phrases truths the entire time to manipulate the flow of the trial. That's all well and good, apart from the fact that Phoenix does lie. He says he never touched the murder weapon, despite his prints being on the bottle. As it turns out this was likely his specific wording relating to the swapping of the bottles, so he never touched "the murder weapon". But, the thing is, that's still not true. Unless I'm mistaken, the murder weapon was the bottle with the playing card inside it. Not only did Phoenix obviously touch it to put the card inside, she specifically says that it was the bottle of juice he had been drinking during that poker game.
** For what it's worth, [[DistinctionWithoutADifference the bottle wasn't a "murder weapon" at the time he touched it.]]
** You are mistaken about which bottle was the murder weapon, too. The bottle with the card inside was what Shadi used to knock out Olga. For Kristoph to have gotten his hands on that bottle, he would’ve had to reach around Shadi to grab it or wrestle it from Shadi’s own hands, before using it to actually kill him. It’s far more likely that the he took a bottle from the piano before heading into the tunnel, used it to commit the murder, and then left it at the scene while taking the one with the card inside back upstairs.
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[[folder:Turnabout Trump/Succession]]

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[[folder:Turnabout Trump/Succession]]
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[[AC:People vs Wright (Turnabout Trump)]]
* Phoenix blatantly admits to a crime and this is completely overlooked. Either the trump card is fake, making the evidence a forgery, or it's real, and Phoenix admitted to removing said card from the scene and giving it to his daughter.
*** He doesn't actually lie once though. He's just making a subtle non-distinction with his wording. He's saying that he's taken the card and given it to his daughter, which is true. He didn't say he took it from the crime scene, and never actually calls it the missing ace. This actually mirrors something that happens in the fourth episode, when Phoenix produces a "forged" version of Kristoph's mail, but Apollo distinctly notes that it was simply Phoenix's replication of the mail. They weren't passing it off as the actual evidence. This is the exact same thing, except that Phoenix never directly makes the distinction, he just lets everyone, including Apollo, fall into the misconception. Depending on how good of a defense you can put up (aka how good your lawyer is), this can legitimately be enough of a defense against Phoenix having, legally, done anything wrong, not just in the wacko world of video game law, but even real life. Obviously there's a very big difference between morality and legality, which is why, morally speaking, Phoenix's actions are cast into doubt, even by Apollo himself. And this is also why Phoenix just up and admits "I forged evidence" after the trial, because morally speaking, that's what it still is. Morality doesn't run on technicalities, but legal ramifications often do (which Klavier, ironically, mentions to Kristoph later in the game).
*** The fake card is basically used in the same manner as the phony bottle of poison from Turnabout Recipe in the third game, where it's used hypothetically in order to prove or support a particular notion or trick the real criminal into admitting something they shouldn't know. Like with Glen Elg's ear medicine, Phoenix initially claims that he took the card from the crime scene and gave it to Trucy, but when Kristoph protests to it, he points out that the real logic behind presenting the bloodied card is to provide a motive for the killer to have swapped it out. It's also a bit like the photo of Maya's spirit channeling abilities that Franziska presented in the second game; it's technically inadmissible as evidence, but it does open up the possibility that the court needs to consider.
* Why was the 5th ace taken? Logically speaking, would it have changed anything about the prosecutions case other than Phoenix's location when he did the deed? In fact it would make him look worse, because he'd have planned on sneak attacking him, which is worse than just doing it on the spur of the moment.
** I'd say panic. Kristoph was already in a rather compromising situation in case Zak decided to talk about the case that got Phoenix disbarred, so he had to kill him there to stop his reputation from being tarnished. But then he realized some blood dropped on an ace, so he hastily swapped cards, not realising there were two decks with different colors on the back (which is the real problem in this situation), and left.
** Because it cuts out the hidden passageway from the case and removes the possibility of someone else having done the deed. Kristoph is basically counting on keeping the room isolated to make ''someone'' inside that room be the guilty party.
* One thing I've never understood is why Phoenix took Shadi's locket. I suppose it might have interfered with the whole transfer of rights thing if it was found out who Shadi really was, but apparently just not having a successful trial was enough for it to be fine, so with Shadi already dead he obviously can't be charged with anything.
** In my head-canon, just because it had a picture of his daughter. Emotional value, nothing more.
* Whatever happened to the (real) fifth ace that the killer stole from the scene and Phoenix had forged?
** Given who it was, I assume he'd burn it, or something similar so it would never be found.
* How was it that no-one recognised Zak Gramarye apart from Phoenix and Kristoph, when he used to be famous?
** It's been 7 years. He's lost his hair, grown a beard, no doubt has several more wrinkles, and isn't wearing his rather distinctive magician's outfit. That last being a big point, too, I'd say: As Zak Gramarye, he was a 6'+ tall man in a pink silk hat and cape...it's really likely that that nobody would have recognised him out of costume even when he wasn't deliberately presenting himself as a different person, who was 7 years older and balder than when last seen.
* So, Zak decides to not hire Kristoph. Why? Because he's able to see his "true nature" through poker, or at least during the game. Fair enough. Yet, when Zak plays Phoenix years later, what does he do? HE CHEATS. So, what was that you were saying about "true nature" Zak?
** What does one have to do with the other? Regardless of whether Zak is a cheater or not, is not he allowed to pick and choose who he considers to be a reputable lawyer?
* In "Turnabout Trump", why doesn't Apollo's bracelet react to Kristoph's TwitchyEye?
** Probably because his distress is so obvious at eye-twitching levels that he doesn't need the bracelet to make him aware of it.
* Why didn't Kristoph simply tell everyone that he'd seen "Shadi Smith's" bald head when he'd tipped his hat as they passed by after Gavin had left the club? This would have explained how he knew he was bald, without putting him AT the scene.
## Because his entire motive for murdering Shadi was to conceal his connection to the case from seven years ago, and falsely admitting that Shadi tipped his hat in greeting would suggest to the court that Shadi might have known Kristoph. Thereby defeating the purpose of the coverup.
## Because he wants to throw Phoenix under the bus now that Phoenix has begun to suspect him. He has to say he was at the crime scene in order to claim he saw Phoenix commit the crime.
## Because he already admitted to being at the crime scene anyway when he mentioned that the cards on the floor were blue.
* Why didn't Kristoph just reveal that the 5th ace is forged? If he's screwed either way, he might as well take Phoenix and Apollo with him.
** Kristoph did say Apollo was presenting illegal evidence when the fifth ace showed up. However, and likely because of his pride, he merely mocked Phoenix for doing that instead of accusing Phoenix and Apollo of using forged evidence as the serious offense it is. As a result, no one took Kristoph's words seriously nor realised the fifth ace was a forgery, and the topic is dropped almost immediately.
** Once he had already been caught, though, why not point it out again?
** Phoenix had basically already acknowledged that the fifth ace wasn't real evidence; he explains that it was presented only as a ''reason'' why the killer had to swap out a card. It's a wonder why Apollo still gets upset about it after the trial, in all honesty. It's not much different from the bottle of ear medicine from Case 3-3 or the detention center photograph from Case 2-2.
* After "Shadi" gets irate and hits Olga with the bottle, Phoenix goes to call for the police. Then he went back down, and found that Shadi was now dead. AKA, Phoenix actually called the police and reported Olga's assault, not Shadi's murder. Why, then, did no one seem to know that Olga had been assaulted, and why did everyone think that Phoenix called the police to report the murder?
** The call was probably a generic "someone was attacked, send help" call. Although you're typically held on the phone during a 911 call and made to relay info, people cutting the call off early isn't exactly uncommon. If my memory serves, Phoenix says during a cross-examination that he didn't want to leave the unconscious Olga alone with Shadi for too long (and cell phones don't get reception down there), so his call to the police was probably fairly short and to the point.
* Why didn't the bailiffs in the lobby do anything when the lawyer began physically attacking his client?
** There's nothing saying they didn't, keeping in mind the visual limiations of the medium. All Apollo gave Phoenix was one uppercut; the bailiffs could've stepped up to interfere before realizing that the altercation was basically over, especially since Phoenix didn't appear to hold it against him.
* Why did Phoenix dispose of the five of hearts card inside the bottle? Everyone brings up how strange that was for him to do, and Phoenix vaguely tells everyone that he had a reason for doing something random like that, but doesn't say what it was.
** Phoenix was playing a card game when he suddenly noticed a card in his pocket which he had no knowledge of. Then he either a) immediately figured out Shadi's plan and stepped out of his trap, or b)having learned something from seven years ago, he simply didn't want to get caught with anything that might suggest that he had cheated, even if he had no idea of the fact. Either way, he had to immediately dispose of the card, and he chose a way of doing it that 1) didn't attract any attention to himself, 2) didn't interrupt the game and 3) put the card in a place that wouldn't undergo a deep check by Shadi afterwards. It was just a response to Shadi's trap, and had nothing to do with the murder or the bottle swap, neither of which he could have predicted.
* People always point out (and Phoenix himself brings it up in-game) how Phoenix never told a single lie through the case; he was technically telling specifically phrases truths the entire time to manipulate the flow of the trial. That's all well and good, apart from the fact that Phoenix does lie. He says he never touched the murder weapon, despite his prints being on the bottle. As it turns out this was likely his specific wording relating to the swapping of the bottles, so he never touched "the murder weapon". But, the thing is, that's still not true. Unless I'm mistaken, the murder weapon was the bottle with the playing card inside it. Not only did Phoenix obviously touch it to put the card inside, she specifically says that it was the bottle of juice he had been drinking during that poker game.
** For what it's worth, [[DistinctionWithoutADifference the bottle wasn't a "murder weapon" at the time he touched it.]]
** You are mistaken about which bottle was the murder weapon, too. The bottle with the card inside was what Shadi used to knock out Olga. For Kristoph to have gotten his hands on that bottle, he would’ve had to reach around Shadi to grab it or wrestle it from Shadi’s own hands, before using it to actually kill him. It’s far more likely that the he took a bottle from the piano before heading into the tunnel, used it to commit the murder, and then left it at the scene while taking the one with the card inside back upstairs.

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** How about this: The explosives weren't set until after Machi had first pressed the switch - Daryan could have waited shortly after telling Machi to push the switch to put the second igniter in place. He would have been able to see the second igniter fire to see that that had happened. As to what happened to the switch, why could Machi have not kept it with him until such a time as the body was moved, which also gives a perfect opportunity to put the switch into the piano?
** But I thought that pressing the switch blew up the cocoon. That happened during the second set, when Klavier's guitar caught fire. Aside from firecrackers being used as gunshots, what explosives were there in the third set?
** If you re-examine the piano after finding the switch there, Apollo and Trucy conclude that it must’ve been left there after the Guitar’s Serenade performance, since it would affected Machi’s part if he’d tossed it in there during the song. The implication is that Daryan took the switch from Machi after the Serenade, then used it during the Gavinners’ next song to light the explosives, then left it in the piano to further frame Machi.

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** How about this: The explosives weren't set until after Machi had first pressed the switch - Daryan could have waited shortly after telling Machi to push the switch to put the second igniter in place. He would have been able to see the second igniter fire to see that that had happened. As to what happened to the switch, why could Machi have not kept it with him until such a time as the body was moved, which also gives a perfect opportunity to put the switch into the piano?
** But I thought that pressing the switch blew up the cocoon. That happened during the second set, when Klavier's guitar caught fire. Aside from firecrackers being used as gunshots, what explosives were there in the third set?
**
To frame Machi. If you re-examine the piano after finding the switch there, Apollo and Trucy conclude that it must’ve been left there after the Guitar’s Serenade performance, since it would affected Machi’s part if he’d tossed it in there during the song. The implication is that Daryan took used the switch from Machi after the Serenade, then used it during the Gavinners’ next song to light the explosives, firecrackers, then left it in the piano deliberately. Machi did probably have another switch that was tied to further frame Machi.the igniter inside the guitar, but he was trying to keep the smuggling plot under wraps, so he had no reason to bring it up.
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** If you re-examine the piano after finding the switch there, Apollo and Trucy conclude that it must’ve been left there after the Guitar’s Serenade performance, since it would affected Machi’s part if he’d tossed it in there during the song. The implication is that Daryan took the switch from Machi after the Serenade, then used it during the Gavinners’ next song to light the explosives, then left it in the piano to further frame Machi.
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Turns out Zak doesn’t give this as a reason for withholding the diary page.


## He thought that presenting the real diary page would throw suspicion onto Valant, who Zak was trying to protect.

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## He thought that presenting wanted to ensure he retained the real diary page so that the performance rights would throw suspicion be passed onto Valant, who Zak was trying to protect.Trucy.
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* Why was Apollo so flabbergasted to learn that Phoenix had a daughter only half his age, considering Apollo’s own backstory involved him being adopted and placed in foster care? It seems like “adoption” should’ve occurred to him well before Trucy explicitly confirmed it.

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* Why was Apollo so flabbergasted to learn that Phoenix had a daughter only half his age, considering Apollo’s own backstory involved him being adopted and placed in foster care? It seems like “adoption” should’ve occurred to him well before Trucy explicitly confirmed it. Even if his backstory hadn’t been completely planned out at this point, it was this game that established that Jove and Thalassa were both out of the picture well before Apollo could’ve gotten on without them.
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* Why was Apollo so flabbergasted to learn that Phoenix had a daughter only half his age, considering Apollo’s own backstory involved him being adopted and placed in foster care? It seems like “adoption” should’ve occurred to him well before Trucy explicitly confirmed it.



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** Because then Phoenix or Apollo would probably demand that Kristoph needs to show that "Shadi Smith" tipped his hat when they passed one another. And Phoenix going "You have no proof" seemed to work well enough in 2-4 when the debate on whether or not Matt knew the suicide not was fake came up.
** More importantly, the most vital point of contention wasn’t Kristoph’s knowledge of Smith’s baldness; it was his presumption that the cards used in their game were blue. He ''has to'' say he was at the murder scene at some point to justify his knowledge of the cards. The baldness issue just takes this further by proving he was there at the time of the crime, since Phoenix put Smith’s hat back on before the police arrived.

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** ## Because then Phoenix or Apollo would probably demand his entire motive for murdering Shadi was to conceal his connection to the case from seven years ago, and falsely admitting that Kristoph needs to show that "Shadi Smith" Shadi tipped his hat when they passed one another. And in greeting would suggest to the court that Shadi might have known Kristoph. Thereby defeating the purpose of the coverup.
## Because he wants to throw
Phoenix going "You have no proof" seemed to work well enough in 2-4 when under the debate on whether or not Matt knew the suicide not was fake came up.
** More importantly, the most vital point of contention wasn’t Kristoph’s knowledge of Smith’s baldness; it was his presumption
bus now that the cards used in their game were blue. Phoenix has begun to suspect him. He ''has to'' has to say he was at the murder crime scene at some point in order to justify his knowledge of the cards. The baldness issue just takes this further by proving claim he was there at the time of the crime, since saw Phoenix put Smith’s hat back on before commit the police arrived.crime.
## Because he already admitted to being at the crime scene anyway when he mentioned that the cards on the floor were blue.
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*** There would only be so much that Edgeworth’s investigation could do. ''Dual Destinies'' implies that he did help Phoenix get the jurist system implemented for Vera’s trial, but to come up with evidence to overturn the decision of the bar association itself is no small feat. Not even the full-fledged MASON system, capable of showing in detail all the connections between past and present, was capable of yielding conclusive proof.
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Headscratcher question about Edgeworth

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** Edgeworth in particular has a big question mark over him. Canonically, less than a month before the Gramarye trial (spoilers for Ace Attorney Investigations 2 follow), Edgeworth: [[spoiler:solves a cold case about the President of a foreign nation right after dismantling a major smuggling ring; takes down the head of the Prosecutorial Investigation Committee, and a prison warden; solves another cold case and brings the killer to justice after over 18 years; and organises the effort to rescue a kidnapped child who was also the star of a movie that was successful at the box office]]. All the prestige he must have got from his accomplishments in Investigations 2 would put him in a position to help Phoenix - but more importantly, on a personal level, he [[spoiler:showed that he was willing to put his position as a prosecutor on the line for Kay Faraday - he was even held in prison at one point for investigating without authority (which he does not seem to regret for a second). If he was willing to do that for Kay, who he only became close with a month earlier,]] it feels like a weird turn for him to stand by idly as Phoenix got disbarred. Hell, even if (for whatever reason) Phoenix didn't want him to investigate - Miles showed in Investigations 2 that he would help a friend even if they didn't believe in themselves.
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** Considering Drew’s idea of good parenting was to raise Vera as a shut-in rather than getting her therapy or something that could’ve helped deal with her issues, I’m inclined to believe he only retained custody of her because his wife didn’t want to seek it for herself. After all, the only other case of divorce laws “favoring the father” was in the case of Morgan Fey’s first husband — where he was a jeweler who could support their kids whereas she was a psychotic, washed-up member of the branch family of the then-discredited Fey Clan.
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\n** You are mistaken about which bottle was the murder weapon, too. The bottle with the card inside was what Shadi used to knock out Olga. For Kristoph to have gotten his hands on that bottle, he would’ve had to reach around Shadi to grab it or wrestle it from Shadi’s own hands, before using it to actually kill him. It’s far more likely that the he took a bottle from the piano before heading into the tunnel, used it to commit the murder, and then left it at the scene while taking the one with the card inside back upstairs.

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** Up until the ending, Lamiroir’s hairstyle and outfit are both different than what she looks like in the Troupe Grammarye poster. Valant only would have encountered her wearing a hooded cloak and with half her face covered by a veil. It’s not impossible that he would dismiss the resemblance.
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*** Apollo can't have been privy to the events of the MASON system, because if he had he would've learned from it that he and Trucy are half-siblings. Phoenix says at the end of the game that neither of them are aware of the relationship. As for the relative probability of a guilty verdict, there's nothing presented in the MASON system that can't also be gleaned from Kristoph's testimony; most of the simulation is devoted to solving the original Grammarye case rather than anything having to do with Kristoph's motive for Drew's murder.
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** More importantly, the most vital point of contention wasn’t Kristoph’s knowledge of Smith’s baldness; it was his presumption that the cards used in their game were blue. He ''has to'' say he was at the murder scene at some point to justify his knowledge of the cards. The baldness issue just takes this further by proving he was there at the time of the crime, since Phoenix put Smith’s hat back on before the police arrived.
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*** They explain this in the game. A video recording of a letter alleged to have been found in Kristoph’s prison cell, by an ex-attorney allegedly disbarred for forging evidence, was too sketchy a premise for the court to accept the recording as legitimate evidence. And Phoenix wasn’t helping his case by trying to present a faked reproduction of the letter beforehand.
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** If they couldn't get the original letter, why couldn't they present the video footage that Phoenix used to reproduce the letter?

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** If they couldn't get the original letter, why couldn't they Apollo present the video footage that Phoenix used to reproduce the letter?

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** You mean the letter that's been residing at Drew Studio for 7 years and we only see the handwriting of when Apollo comes investigating Misham's death? There are several problems with that. First: Phoenix never gained access to it during the past. Second: Ema's 'X-Ray Analyser' was needed to see through the the envelope, which I'm fairly sure she says is new . Third: Even if he did somehow manage to see it, how on earth would that prove anything at that point? There's no guarantee he knows what Kristoph's handwriting looks like to begin with, and even if he did, what could he do with that information? Go to the Bar Association committee and submit that the only man who voted against his disbarment was actually the one responsible? Even if Phoenix brings them the actual letter, all Kristoph has to do to deny the accusation is say that when Phoenix forged the diary (which the Bar Association already believe him to have done) he obviously had this forged as a backup plan. Or he could just say nothing at all and let them infer that. Kristoph was never officially registered on the trial, so in the eyes of the committee would have no motive.

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** You mean the letter that's been residing at Drew Studio for 7 years and we only see the handwriting of when Apollo comes investigating Misham's death? There are several problems with that. First: Phoenix never gained access to it during the past. Second: Ema's 'X-Ray Analyser' was needed to see through the the envelope, which I'm fairly sure she says is new .new. Third: Even if he did somehow manage to see it, how on earth would that prove anything at that point? There's no guarantee he knows what Kristoph's handwriting looks like to begin with, and even if he did, what could he do with that information? Go to the Bar Association committee and submit that the only man who voted against his disbarment was actually the one responsible? Even if Phoenix brings them the actual letter, all Kristoph has to do to deny the accusation is say that when Phoenix forged the diary (which the Bar Association already believe him to have done) he obviously had this forged as a backup plan. Or he could just say nothing at all and let them infer that. Kristoph was never officially registered on the trial, so in the eyes of the committee would have no motive.



*** His mail is ''read'', not ''copied''. Whatever officer had the duty of reading Kristoph's mail that day probably read the letter, put it back in the envelope, passed it off to Kristoph, and then abruptly stopped caring about it because up until the point where it became required evidence to a murder trial, it was just another piece of mail, and if Kristoph is as well-respected still as the game seems to indicate, he probably gets ''all manner'' of correspondance from peers, fans, and well-wishers.

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*** His mail is ''read'', not ''copied''. Whatever officer had the duty of reading Kristoph's mail that day probably read the letter, put it back in the envelope, passed it off to Kristoph, and then abruptly stopped caring about it because up until the point where it became required evidence to a murder trial, it was just another piece of mail, and if Kristoph is as well-respected still as the game seems to indicate, he probably gets ''all manner'' of correspondance correspondence from peers, fans, and well-wishers.well-wishers.
** If they couldn't get the original letter, why couldn't they present the video footage that Phoenix used to reproduce the letter?

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* Zak tells Phoenix that the reason he fled before his verdict could be handed down was because of the paper that bequeathed the performance rights to him. As if to imply that being found guilty would rob him of those rights, but he never explains how that works. OK, he mentions Magnifi signed it without witnesses or a notary, but why didn’t Zak just asked Phoenix to get him a notary to validate his claim before they went to trial? That way, he wouldn’t need to run away and go into hiding to ensure Trucy’s inheritance.



* Zak tells Phoenix that the reason he fled before his verdict could be handed down was because of the paper that bequeathed the performance rights to him. As if to imply that being found guilty would rob him of those rights, but he never explains how that works. OK, he mentions Magnifi signed it without witnesses or a notary, but why didn’t Zak just asked Phoenix to get him a notary to validate his claim before they went to trial? That way, he wouldn’t need to run away and go into hiding to ensure Trucy’s inheritance.

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* Zak tells Phoenix that the reason he fled before his verdict could be handed down was because of the paper that bequeathed the performance rights to him. As if to imply that being found guilty would rob him of those rights, but he never explains how that works. OK, he mentions Magnifi signed it without witnesses or a notary, but why didn’t Zak just asked Phoenix to get him a notary to validate his claim before they went to trial? That way, he wouldn’t need to run away and go into hiding to ensure Trucy’s inheritance.

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** Yes. First off, Edgeworth's crime isn't overlooked; he is investigated for it, as stated in that case. Remember how the mounting pressure is one of the reasons why he chooses to resign? Second, while it was established that Edgeworth presented fake evidence in court, no one had any proof that he had a hand in its forgery like Klavier did regarding Phoenix and the diary page.

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** Yes. First off, Edgeworth's crime isn't overlooked; he is investigated for it, as stated in that case. Remember how the mounting pressure is one of the reasons why he chooses to resign? Second, while it was established that Edgeworth presented fake evidence in court, no one had any proof that he had a hand in its forgery like Klavier did regarding Phoenix and the diary page.




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* Zak tells Phoenix that the reason he fled before his verdict could be handed down was because of the paper that bequeathed the performance rights to him. As if to imply that being found guilty would rob him of those rights, but he never explains how that works. OK, he mentions Magnifi signed it without witnesses or a notary, but why didn’t Zak just asked Phoenix to get him a notary to validate his claim before they went to trial? That way, he wouldn’t need to run away and go into hiding to ensure Trucy’s inheritance.

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** Everyone reaffirms just as often, if not more so, that an experienced shooter can easily go away unscathed. Thus, the Judge assumed that Machi was experienced, as he was the only one who could have conceivably committed the crime. ** Additionally, Prosecutor Gavin notes that the authorities want a suspect to be found and prosecuted quickly, due to the high-profile nature of the incident. He's aware that there are logical flaws in the case, but he isn't being given the time to investigate properly.

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** Everyone reaffirms just as often, if not more so, that an experienced shooter can easily go away unscathed. Thus, the Judge assumed that Machi was experienced, as he was the only one who could have conceivably committed the crime. crime.
*** The problem with this answer is that one of Gavin’s arguments on the first trial day directly contradicts it. When the truth comes out that Machi isn’t truly blind, Gavin argues that it was his inexperience with a gun of that size that caused him to miss one of the two shots, rather than his alleged inability to see. If he was that inexperienced, how would he have avoided the physical repercussions of the gun’s recoil?
** Additionally, Prosecutor Gavin notes that the authorities want a suspect to be found and prosecuted quickly, due to the high-profile nature of the incident. He's aware that there are logical flaws in the case, but he isn't being given the time to investigate properly.
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** Maybe he was feeling vindictive and viewed the potential investigation as commeupance for what happened to Thalassa?

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** Maybe he The only reason that the suicide was feeling vindictive mistaken for a murder was because Valant tampered with the crime scene, specifically by removing the gun from Magnifi’s hand. If he hadn’t intended to frame Zak, it would’ve been a lot easier for the police to brush it off as a dying cancer patient who wanted to put himself out of his misery. His letters to Zak and viewed Valant presumably only came to light during the potential investigation as commeupance for what happened investigation; without them, there’d be no reason to Thalassa?think that either of them had the motive or opportunity to kill him.

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Cleanup & condensing.


* How was Phoenix allowed to adopt Trucy? He had just lost his job (no income), and was proven to be an AmoralAttorney (bad role model).
** Trucy was actively positive to have him as her father. That enthusiasm from her probably helped. Plus Phoenix does have experience with looking after a child after their birth parents went away (Pearl, whom he took care of alongside Maya after her mother got arrested), which would've swayed the assessment at least somewhat in his favor. That along with the fact that he didn't have no income. Even before he actually legally went and adopted Trucy, he had already begun to set up the Wright Talent Agency, and begun to push to make an income as a pianist, to provide her a livelihood. Which would've looked pretty good in his assessment, showing a determination to actually support Trucy even after having just lost his job he loved so much. This is on top of the fact that Phoenix has powerful friends in the legal world, who could've helped sway things in his direction as well.
** Umm, "being found to be an AmoralAttorney" is not grounds to deny someone an adoption. You can have an actual crjminal record and would still be permitted to adopt. Just as long as it wasn't a particularly serious or violent crime, it has nothing to do with your ability to be a parent.



* What are Snackoos? Are they savory, are they sweet, are they crunchy, are they chocolate? WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY?!

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* What are Snackoos? Are they savory, are they sweet, are they crunchy, are they chocolate? WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY?!chocolate?



--->'''Phoenix''': [[Webcomic/AwkwardZombie Eat your jelly donuts]], [[Anime/PokemonTheSeries Ash Ketchum]].



** Well, given how chummy Phoenix is with Gumshoe and Edgeworth, maybe she meant them? Other than that, I don't have much of an idea either, though.
* Ema said she returned to [[FanNickname Japanifornia]] because she wanted to repay her debt to Phoenix. It's been ''nine years''. You'd think Lana would have already paid for that. If not, then how does she expect to pay that plus interest? For that matter, how much ''does'' everyone owe Phoenix?
** I don't think she meant "debt" in the monetary sense. Ema feels like she owes him for "saving" Lana. While Lana probably did already pay off any lawyer fees long ago, Ema probably just means she wants to just help Phoenix in some way.
* Um... So when Apollo "perceives" a witness's tell, why does he inform the witness what their tell is? If he wasn't so stupid as to tip the witness off as to what he's doing, he'd be able to use the same tell over and over again in order to pinpoint he crucial parts of the person's testimonies, while the witness would have no idea how Apollo can see through them. But instead, he just outright tells the witness what their "nervous tick" is, allowing them to hide that particular habit, and forcing Apollo to go through the effort of searching for a new one.

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** Well, given how chummy Phoenix is with Gumshoe and Edgeworth, maybe she meant them? Other than that, I don't have much of an idea either, though.
them?
* Ema said she returned to [[FanNickname Japanifornia]] because she wanted to repay her debt to Phoenix. It's been ''nine years''. You'd think Lana would have already paid for that. If not, then how does she expect to pay that plus interest? For that matter, how much ''does'' everyone owe Phoenix?
** I don't think she meant "debt" in the monetary sense. Ema feels like she owes him for "saving" Lana. While Lana probably did already pay off any lawyer fees long ago, Ema probably just means she wants to just help Phoenix in some way.
* Um... So when
When Apollo "perceives" a witness's tell, why does he inform the witness what their tell is? If he wasn't so stupid as to tip the witness off as to what he's doing, he'd be able to use the same tell over and over again in order to pinpoint he crucial parts of the person's testimonies, while the witness would have no idea how Apollo can see through them. But instead, he just outright tells the witness what their "nervous tick" is, allowing them to hide that particular habit, and forcing Apollo to go through the effort of searching for a new one.



* Where did everyone ''go''? Not only is Phoenix left with only Ema -- a side character who appeared only once, and that was in the "postscript" game -- as support, none of the "old guard" appear in the flashback case... which takes place only two months after the final case of Ace Attorney 3. Would Edgeworth, Maya, Pearl and Gumshoe really just stand back as Nick's life went "boom"?
** The out-of-universe reason is that ''Apollo Justice'' was going to be a reboot of the series, but late into the development someone ordered that Phoenix had to appear in the game. They probably didn't have time to give prominent roles to most of the supporting cast at that point. In-universe, until the fourth case, the playtime is spent focusing on Apollo's cases, with Phoenix himself appearing sporadically and briefly throughout them. There's nothing saying he's not spending his time with Maya, Edgeworth, and the others when he isn't around.



[[folder:Where Is Everybody?]]
* In ''Ace Attorney 4'', where did everyone ''go''? Not only is Phoenix left with only Ema -- a side character who appeared only once, and that was in the "postscript" game -- as support, none of the "old guard" appear in the flashback case... which takes place only two months after the final case of Ace Attorney 3. Would Edgeworth, Maya, Pearl and Gumshoe really just stand back as Nick's life went "boom"? Or was the need to clear the decks for a new cast -- and have Phoenix radically altered in terms of personality-- just so strong it defied all laws of common sense?
** The need to clear the decks was ''really'' that strong.
** It should be noted that it's never stated or even implied that Phoenix completely lost contact with them, but they have lives too, Maya has to be watching over Kurain now. Also, Phoenix went through a lot those 7 years, it must have been trying to completely lose your life's work and lose faith in the justice system all at once, and end up working as a poker player in a dive of a restaraunt.
*** In JFA, Maya is revealed to have willingly cut herself off from the outside world for the sake of training. Now that she's the new Master of Kurain, she'd almost be ''forced'' to take charge and do so again. She has more willpower than her bubbly personality gives her credit for; it's doubtful that she'd even have heard about it, despite living two hours out of town. However, she's the only one I can think of an excuse for...
*** At one point you can examine a stack of tapes belonging to Phoenix, and the dialogue states that these are "Steel Samurai", "Pink Princess", etc, and that Phoenix is being told to not only watch them but write reports on them. If that isn't Maya staying in contact with Phoenix, I don't know what is.
*** I thought of it as ''[[ClosetGeek Edgeworth]]'' staying in contact with Phoenix. After all, how is an up-and-comming Chief Prosecutor supposed to find time to watch the latest Samurai saga? Conversely, Master of Kurian though she is, how is ''Maya'' able to afford that sort of collection?
*** Also during the bits in the past we see, what would his friends be doing? I see no evidence to support the fact he's not hanging out with them in between those scenes, but we don't see that, we see his quest for justice which is more a personal thing and I can understand why he wouldn't bring anyone along for them except maybe Maya who as stated above is busy. Same as in the present, Phoenix is rarely in the office and we never see him when he's not on his "secret mission."
*** This Troper always believed (though a bit romantically) that Phoenix Wright figured something was way off, and so passed along a messege to everyone that they were not to interfere... Or something along those lines.
*** Just because we don't see them doesn't mean they aren't around - the game is from Apollo's perspective and Phoenix isn't exactly forthcoming about his past. Considering the nature of Phoenix's secret mission, I'm sure that Edgeworth was involved behind the scenes. (He was probably a mentor to Klavier too.)
*** Forget his past; Phoenix isn't exactly forthcoming about his ''present''. He pops in for five minutes per case and then takes off again. For all we know, he could be heading out to poker night with Edgeworth, Franzy, Gumshoe, Maya, etc. Apollo doesn't know any of these people and Phoenix doesn't have any reason to go, "Hey, Apollo, did I ever tell you about how my friends and I used to have a joke about the way Larry Butz smells?" Keep in mind: he did manage to get a [[JustForPun trial]] run of a new court system off the ground. That's quite an accomplishment for a disgraced ex-lawyer, but much more feasible for a disgraced ex-lawyer who is well-connected within the prosecutors' office and the police station.
*** It's basically confirmed that Phoenix stayed in contact with Edgeworth, at least, for the whole seven years and occasionally visited him in Europe as of ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies''. That same game also suggests that Maya keeps in regular contact too, as she sends him a letter in the final case.
*** And Gumshoe was there in trial, ya know.
* Related to the 'Where did Everybody go' entry above, how come after the flashback case, not ONE person came to Phoenix's aid after he presented false evidence? Especially since Miles Edgeworth had the same thing happen to him just a few years ago? Gumshoe and Edgeworth should have been more than ready to help him clear his name, but he was left out in the cold. Even if they couldn't, you'd think they'd offer him help elsewhere, such as a new job behind the scenes. At the very least, you'd expect Maya would offer a spare bedroom in the Fey Manor... not that that would help much, considering distance and lack of job opportunities out there.
** Considering it was Kristoph Gavin behind it all, coming up with actual evidence to say that Phoenix wasn't guilty of forging evidence would have been pretty damn hard, even if Edgeworth was on the case, because Kristoph covered his tracks. Then again, he stuffed up later along the line, but that took Phoenix 7 years.
** Actually, Phoenix states that after he presented the false evidence, the only person who would stand by him as the Bar Association decided his fate was ''Kristoph Gavin himself''. (Talk about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer. Maybe he was trying to throw suspicion off of himself?) Phoenix says that the reason he hung out with Gavin at all is because he trusted him...until the whole "you knew Shadi Smith was bald so you're the murderer!" thing came up.
*** Maybe this is just me, but I read it more as Gavin was the only one on the Bar Association ''committee'' who stood up for Phoenix. His friends could certainly have remained loyal while, at the same time, being completely unable to do anything to help him clear his name.
** To be more precise, the MASON system implies that Phoenix figured Gavin was responsible during his talk with Vera. Problem is, Kristoph couldn't be convicted of forging evidence, because there was no evidence that he commissioned the forged evidence, as the last case of Apollo Justice proved. Well, no conclusive evidence, anyway. He was pretty much guilty in the eyes of the court in that case. He was lucky he was already convicted of a similar crime, because Phoenix changed the entire legal system just to get back at him. Still, kinda proves that nobody from the original cast could have helped Phoenix, not that they needed to, he was able to support himself with the help of Trucy, and got back at Kristoph on his own thanks to his new role as the Chessmaster (with a little help from Apollo, of course).
*** It's also heavily implied that once Phoenix actually lost his badge, he apparently gave up immediately trying to get it back (probably because no one would believe him). Since he wasn't terribly concerned with getting his lawyer credentials back, why would anyone else be? As far as getting him a job, he ''did'' get assigned a "secret mission" to overhaul the legal system. Considering he's not even a lawyer, that's a hefty burden; someone is most likely pulling strings behind the scenes.
*** Edgeworth must still have a prominent position - something tells me that he's the one pulling those strings. Compare it to when he 'hires' Franziska and the Judge's brother in order to extend the trial in 3-5 to one more day so that Phoenix has time to recover, investigate the case further and rescue Maya.
*** As was told in ''Dual Destinies'', sometime after ''Investigations 2'', Miles became the Chief Prosecutor. So, he could've helped Phoenix when he possibly learnt of the MASON system.
** I figured that Phoenix maintained contact with everyone but less than usual lest he accidentally leak information about his secret mission from Edgeworth. Phoenix is the only person Edgeworth could trust to keep quiet and do what needed to be done without too many questions, as well as utilise his connections in England (Layton), to track down Athena Cykes to fix the legal system. They needed to clear Phoenix's name and find Athena to start the overhaul of the legal system. Phoenix was also able to move about freely compared to everyone else Edgeworth knows and have a ready excuse, which is really no more than an excuse since what disbarred lawyer needs to study other legal systems? It was probably complicated to maintain contact with Maya and Pearls due to their training, and unwise to contact Larry except when he was home. He may have maintained contact with Franziska, too, just because she would be an excellent connection to have, being part of Interpol as well as having her own connections in Europe.
*** The only issue here is that it's fairly unclear whether [=PLxAA=] is considered canon in the AA timeline, since there are lots of things that seem to contradict the AA timeline, so he may not canonically know Layton at all, and also, Athena is stated as having been studying in Europe. Not specifically England, just a vague 'Europe', so Layton may not have had any idea that someone like Athena even existed. It seems more likely that Edgeworth found Athena while he was studying Europe's legal systems, since it was stated in Dual Destinies that it was something he did.
[[/folder]]


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[[folder:Where Is Everybody?]]
* In ''Ace Attorney 4'', where did everyone ''go''? Not only is Phoenix left with only Ema -- a side character who appeared only once, and that was in the "postscript" game -- as support, none of the "old guard" appear in the flashback case... which takes place only two months after the final case of Ace Attorney 3. Would Edgeworth, Maya, Pearl and Gumshoe really just stand back as Nick's life went "boom"? Or was the need to clear the decks for a new cast -- and have Phoenix radically altered in terms of personality-- just so strong it defied all laws of common sense?
** The need to clear the decks was ''really'' that strong.
** It should be noted that it's never stated or even implied that Phoenix completely lost contact with them, but they have lives too, Maya has to be watching over Kurain now. Also, Phoenix went through a lot those 7 years, it must have been trying to completely lose your life's work and lose faith in the justice system all at once, and end up working as a poker player in a dive of a restaraunt.
*** In JFA, Maya is revealed to have willingly cut herself off from the outside world for the sake of training. Now that she's the new Master of Kurain, she'd almost be ''forced'' to take charge and do so again. She has more willpower than her bubbly personality gives her credit for; it's doubtful that she'd even have heard about it, despite living two hours out of town. However, she's the only one I can think of an excuse for...
*** At one point you can examine a stack of tapes belonging to Phoenix, and the dialogue states that these are "Steel Samurai", "Pink Princess", etc, and that Phoenix is being told to not only watch them but write reports on them. If that isn't Maya staying in contact with Phoenix, I don't know what is.
*** I thought of it as ''[[ClosetGeek Edgeworth]]'' staying in contact with Phoenix. After all, how is an up-and-comming Chief Prosecutor supposed to find time to watch the latest Samurai saga? Conversely, Master of Kurian though she is, how is ''Maya'' able to afford that sort of collection?
*** Also during the bits in the past we see, what would his friends be doing? I see no evidence to support the fact he's not hanging out with them in between those scenes, but we don't see that, we see his quest for justice which is more a personal thing and I can understand why he wouldn't bring anyone along for them except maybe Maya who as stated above is busy. Same as in the present, Phoenix is rarely in the office and we never see him when he's not on his "secret mission."
*** This Troper always believed (though a bit romantically) that Phoenix Wright figured something was way off, and so passed along a messege to everyone that they were not to interfere... Or something along those lines.
*** Just because we don't see them doesn't mean they aren't around - the game is from Apollo's perspective and Phoenix isn't exactly forthcoming about his past. Considering the nature of Phoenix's secret mission, I'm sure that Edgeworth was involved behind the scenes. (He was probably a mentor to Klavier too.)
*** Forget his past; Phoenix isn't exactly forthcoming about his ''present''. He pops in for five minutes per case and then takes off again. For all we know, he could be heading out to poker night with Edgeworth, Franzy, Gumshoe, Maya, etc. Apollo doesn't know any of these people and Phoenix doesn't have any reason to go, "Hey, Apollo, did I ever tell you about how my friends and I used to have a joke about the way Larry Butz smells?" Keep in mind: he did manage to get a [[JustForPun trial]] run of a new court system off the ground. That's quite an accomplishment for a disgraced ex-lawyer, but much more feasible for a disgraced ex-lawyer who is well-connected within the prosecutors' office and the police station.
*** It's basically confirmed that Phoenix stayed in contact with Edgeworth, at least, for the whole seven years and occasionally visited him in Europe as of ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies''. That same game also suggests that Maya keeps in regular contact too, as she sends him a letter in the final case.
*** And Gumshoe was there in trial, ya know.
* Related to the 'Where did Everybody go' entry above, how come after the flashback case, not ONE person came to Phoenix's aid after he presented false evidence? Especially since Miles Edgeworth had the same thing happen to him just a few years ago? Gumshoe and Edgeworth should have been more than ready to help him clear his name, but he was left out in the cold. Even if they couldn't, you'd think they'd offer him help elsewhere, such as a new job behind the scenes. At the very least, you'd expect Maya would offer a spare bedroom in the Fey Manor... not that that would help much, considering distance and lack of job opportunities out there.
** Considering it was Kristoph Gavin behind it all, coming up with actual evidence to say that Phoenix wasn't guilty of forging evidence would have been pretty damn hard, even if Edgeworth was on the case, because Kristoph covered his tracks. Then again, he stuffed up later along the line, but that took Phoenix 7 years.
** Actually, Phoenix states that after he presented the false evidence, the only person who would stand by him as the Bar Association decided his fate was ''Kristoph Gavin himself''. (Talk about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer. Maybe he was trying to throw suspicion off of himself?) Phoenix says that the reason he hung out with Gavin at all is because he trusted him...until the whole "you knew Shadi Smith was bald so you're the murderer!" thing came up.
*** Maybe this is just me, but I read it more as Gavin was the only one on the Bar Association ''committee'' who stood up for Phoenix. His friends could certainly have remained loyal while, at the same time, being completely unable to do anything to help him clear his name.
** To be more precise, the MASON system implies that Phoenix figured Gavin was responsible during his talk with Vera. Problem is, Kristoph couldn't be convicted of forging evidence, because there was no evidence that he commissioned the forged evidence, as the last case of Apollo Justice proved. Well, no conclusive evidence, anyway. He was pretty much guilty in the eyes of the court in that case. He was lucky he was already convicted of a similar crime, because Phoenix changed the entire legal system just to get back at him. Still, kinda proves that nobody from the original cast could have helped Phoenix, not that they needed to, he was able to support himself with the help of Trucy, and got back at Kristoph on his own thanks to his new role as the Chessmaster (with a little help from Apollo, of course).
*** It's also heavily implied that once Phoenix actually lost his badge, he apparently gave up immediately trying to get it back (probably because no one would believe him). Since he wasn't terribly concerned with getting his lawyer credentials back, why would anyone else be? As far as getting him a job, he ''did'' get assigned a "secret mission" to overhaul the legal system. Considering he's not even a lawyer, that's a hefty burden; someone is most likely pulling strings behind the scenes.
*** Edgeworth must still have a prominent position - something tells me that he's the one pulling those strings. Compare it to when he 'hires' Franziska and the Judge's brother in order to extend the trial in 3-5 to one more day so that Phoenix has time to recover, investigate the case further and rescue Maya.
*** As was told in ''Dual Destinies'', sometime after ''Investigations 2'', Miles became the Chief Prosecutor. So, he could've helped Phoenix when he possibly learnt of the MASON system.
** I figured that Phoenix maintained contact with everyone but less than usual lest he accidentally leak information about his secret mission from Edgeworth. Phoenix is the only person Edgeworth could trust to keep quiet and do what needed to be done without too many questions, as well as utilise his connections in England (Layton), to track down Athena Cykes to fix the legal system. They needed to clear Phoenix's name and find Athena to start the overhaul of the legal system. Phoenix was also able to move about freely compared to everyone else Edgeworth knows and have a ready excuse, which is really no more than an excuse since what disbarred lawyer needs to study other legal systems? It was probably complicated to maintain contact with Maya and Pearls due to their training, and unwise to contact Larry except when he was home. He may have maintained contact with Franziska, too, just because she would be an excellent connection to have, being part of Interpol as well as having her own connections in Europe.
*** The only issue here is that it's fairly unclear whether [=PLxAA=] is considered canon in the AA timeline, since there are lots of things that seem to contradict the AA timeline, so he may not canonically know Layton at all, and also, Athena is stated as having been studying in Europe. Not specifically England, just a vague 'Europe', so Layton may not have had any idea that someone like Athena even existed. It seems more likely that Edgeworth found Athena while he was studying Europe's legal systems, since it was stated in Dual Destinies that it was something he did.
[[/folder]]




* This has bugged me every since the game first came out. How did that bullet get in the safe? We're never told that. If we go by the 'villains never lie when cornered' logic, then she was threatening him to open the safe with the gun, which, obviously, means the safe was closed when he attacked her. With a little logic you could conceivably create a scenario for which it's possible. Either she went in and immediately fired a warning shot, and the safe just so happened to be open at that time, or he was in his safe at the time and she tried to take him out right then while his back was turned, and it just so happened to miss when he moved. But you'd think if he had just been shot at he'd have more important things on his mind than shutting the safe. And you'd think if that was the case her wording would be something like 'open that safe back up' rather than just 'open the safe.' So how did the bullet get in there? Who knows?
** It's ever explicitly made clear, but I think it was supposed to be inferred that Meraktis began doing what he was ordered to by Alita, but then he began to figure that she was just using him. When he went to attack her, she probably fired at him, but missed.
* OK, in the second case of Apollo Justice, Apollo says to Trucy that because of a case of Phoenix's that he read, ("Rise From the Ashes",) he always checks the exhaust pipes of cars, to see if there's anything in there. However, if he knows the case so well, why, when he meets Ema Skye, does he not recognize the name? Even if he doesn't remember that she was a witness, he should at least remember that the defendant for that case was Lana Skye, and make the connection!
** Maybe he only read the things pertaining to the investigation itself, as a sort of 'How To Find Clues' guide, and didn't pay much attention to the actual people involved. Or he just has a bad memory. Or both.
** Alternatively, maybe it's just a coincidence that there's a case in a previous game that matches this description, and he's actually referring to something else.
** Or Ema's name was withheld from the public because she was a minor.
** Or Ema's name is ultimately irrelevant to the case and thus didn't leave much of an imprint in Apollo's mind. He ''read'' the case. He never said he ''memorized every detail'' of it.

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* This has bugged me every since the game first came out. How did that bullet get in the safe? We're never told that. If we go by the 'villains never lie when cornered' logic, then she was threatening him to open the safe with the gun, which, obviously, means the safe was closed when he attacked her. With a little logic you could conceivably create a scenario for which it's possible. Either she went in and immediately fired a warning shot, and her.
** By
the safe just so happened way their conversation went, Meraktis could've already started to be open at that time, or he was in his the safe at the time and she tried to take him out right then while his back was turned, and it just so happened to miss when he moved. But you'd think if he had just been shot at he'd have more important things on his mind than shutting the safe. And you'd think if that was the case her wording would be something like 'open that safe back up' rather than just 'open the safe.' So how did the bullet get in there? Who knows?
** It's ever explicitly made clear, but I think it was supposed to be inferred that Meraktis began doing what he was ordered to by Alita, but then
point where he began to figure suspect Alita. By that point she was could have fired toward the safe to try and get him away from it so she could get the chart, or she just using him. When he went to attack her, she probably fired at him, but missed.
* OK,
him in self-defense and missed the second case of Apollo Justice, shot. All Meraktis would have to do is close the safe after he strangled her.
*
Apollo says to Trucy that because of a case of Phoenix's that he read, ("Rise From the Ashes",) he always checks the exhaust pipes of cars, to see if there's anything in there. However, if he knows the case so well, why, when he meets Ema Skye, does he not recognize the name? Even if he doesn't remember that she was a witness, he should at least remember that the defendant for that case was Lana Skye, and make the connection!
** Maybe he only read the things pertaining to the investigation itself, as a sort of 'How To Find Clues' guide, and didn't pay much attention to the actual people involved. Or he just has a bad memory. Or both.
** Alternatively, maybe it's just a coincidence that there's a case in a previous game that matches this description, and he's actually referring to something else.
** Or Ema's name was withheld from the public because she was a minor.
** Or Ema's name is ultimately irrelevant to the case and thus didn't leave much of an imprint in Apollo's mind. He ''read'' the case. He never said he ''memorized every detail'' of it.
connection!



* In case 2, one of the big twists is that the murderer shot from inside the noodle stand. Yet wouldn't this have left a bullet hole in the front side of the noodle stand?. They spend so much time debating where the murderer must've stood to kill the doctor, yet (when factoring in the entry wound) it should've been clear before the trial even began!
** The killer probably slid the gun through the curtain at the front of the stand, then fired. Wocky wouldn't have seen that, the doctor's head would have been in the way.
* In Turnabout Corner, why doesn't Dr. Pal Meraktis bother verifying if Alita Tiala is really dead? He's a doctor, and I assume he would be able to tell the difference between a corpse and an unconscious person.

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* In case 2, one One of the big twists is that the murderer shot from inside the noodle stand. Yet wouldn't this have left a bullet hole in the front side of the noodle stand?. They spend so much time debating where the murderer must've stood to kill the doctor, yet (when factoring in the entry wound) it should've been clear before the trial even began!
** The killer probably slid If you look at the stand in the court record, you can see there's a curtain covering the front. Alita could have stuck the gun through the curtain at the front out past one of the stand, then fired. Wocky wouldn't have seen that, the doctor's head would have been in the way.
edges before she fired.
* In Turnabout Corner, why Why doesn't Dr. Pal Meraktis bother verifying if Alita Tiala is really dead? He's a doctor, and I assume he would be able to tell the difference between a corpse and an unconscious person.



** Also, he has a sign in front of his clinic that says "Three shots for the price of one!". Doesn't sound like a guy who really went through medical school.
*** Presumably he is at least fairly competent, seeing as how his mob clients hadn't shot him yet. Though one wonders why he didn't just tell them the problem and try and point them in the direction of someone who might be able to help him. The Kitakis didn't seem stupid enough to expect one doctor to be able to do ''everything.'' Well, maybe Wocky, but not his parents.
*** Directing them to another doctor would run the risk of that doctor becoming ''the doctor who saved Wocky's life when Dr. Meraktis could not'', resulting in immense feelings of gratitude towards the new doctor. There's a decent enough chance that the new doctor would become the new family doctor, undoing all the work that Dr. Meraktis has put into obtaining his mob clientele. It's not a certainty, but it's enough of a possibility that Dr. Meraktis wasn't willing to take that chance. Instead, by letting Wocky die, Dr. Meraktis would have been able to obtain the family's gratitude for saving Wocky's life, while also having enough time to invent a new reason for why Wocky died, such as heart failure or a terminal illness.



* In Case 4-2, it is established that the reason the Kitakis are going clean is because they need money for Wocky's operation. However, they didn't even KNOW that Wocky still had the bullet inside him until the check-up a couple of days before the trial! How is it possible, therefore, for their business to do a complete u-turn (and gradually) to pay for an operation when they have only known about it for a couple of days, particularly since the motive of [Alita Tiala's marriage is to get her hands on the wealth the Kitakis are aquiring after going clean, and that happened 6 months ago?
** Odds are that they knew, but couldn't hide this knowledge from Wocky when the results of the checkup (most likely done to see if ''anything else'' was wrong) came out.
*** It may be hard to find a surgeon who can handle a case like that (and take time to come up with enough clean money to pay for it), but you'd think that they would have gotten the operation much earlier if they had known. On the other hand, while this may contradict some in-game dialogue, it's possible that they went clean because of the injury itself ("the gangster life did this to you") and the need for clean money just reinforced that decision.
*** While the Kitakis did not know that the bullet was still in Wocky's heart, they DID know that he'd been shot and almost died because of gangstering. They probably considered that reminder that Wocky could be murdered any day now without warning to be a reason to change lifestyles.
** Kitakis already have access to a lot of money. But it's dirty money. They won't suddenly get more wealth by going clean and in fact something quite contrary is implied, the reason is that the huge surgery price is to be paid to a non-mafia aligned doctor/clinic, and if Kitakis can't document legal sources of cash for that, they're going to be instantly busted by taxmen unless they also run money laundering operations. On the other hand, chances are they can use the dirty money right now and count on tax year ending after their bakery taking off, or something. As for Alita, she craves a nice life, so dirty money being dirty is not an issue.
*** No, the in-game dialogue clearly indicates that the reason they want to use clean money is because it's tainted with the "gangster life style" which is what caused Wocky to get shot in the first place. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with it. The most likely, and even canon for that matter, explanation is simply, as stated above, that the situation caused them to want to want to change their ways. We're not just talking about their son getting shot here. He had that bullet still inside him that could cause him to drop dead any any second, due to malpractice from a doctor with ties to crime-syndicate, who only committed malpractice because of his fear over their ties to the criminal world. It's really not a stretch at all that something like that would be enough of a punch to make them want to change their lifestyle.
* This may be a bit picky, but something bugged me when we met Eldoon. The guy says that he used to serve Phoenix and his assistant 'back in his lawyer days,' but then later, during the investigation, he reveals that he's only been doing the noodle stand thing for, what, a year? Unless he's using the MASON System to time-travel like a salt-broth-wielding Time Lord, I think not.

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* In Case 4-2, it It is established that the reason the Kitakis are going clean is because they need money for Wocky's operation. However, they didn't even KNOW that Wocky still had the bullet inside him until the check-up a couple of days before the trial! How is it possible, therefore, for their business to do a complete u-turn (and gradually) to pay for an operation when they have only known about it for a couple of days, particularly since the motive of [Alita Tiala's marriage is to get her hands on the wealth the Kitakis are aquiring after going clean, and that happened 6 months ago?
days?
** Odds are that they knew, but couldn't hide this knowledge from Wocky when the results of the checkup (most likely done to see if ''anything else'' was wrong) came out.
*** It may be hard to find a surgeon who can handle a case like that (and take time to come up with enough clean money to pay for it), but you'd think that they would have gotten the operation much earlier if they had known. On the other hand, while this may contradict some in-game dialogue, it's possible that they went clean because of the injury itself ("the gangster life did this to you") and the need for clean money just reinforced that decision.
***
While the Kitakis did not know that the bullet was still in Wocky's heart, they DID know that he'd been shot and almost died because of gangstering. They probably considered that reminder that Wocky could be murdered any day now without warning to be a reason to change lifestyles.
** Kitakis already have access to a lot of money. But it's dirty money. They won't suddenly get more wealth by going clean and in fact something quite contrary is implied, the reason is that the huge surgery price is to be paid to a non-mafia aligned doctor/clinic, and if Kitakis can't document legal sources of cash for that, they're going to be instantly busted by taxmen unless they also run money laundering operations. On the other hand, chances are they can use the dirty money right now and count on tax year ending after their bakery taking off, or something. As for Alita, she craves a nice life, so dirty money being dirty is not an issue.
*** No, the in-game dialogue clearly indicates that the reason they want to use clean money is because it's tainted with the "gangster life style" which is what caused Wocky to get shot in the first place. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with it. The most likely, and even canon for that matter, explanation is simply, as stated above, that the situation caused them to want to want to change their ways. We're not just talking about their son getting shot here. He had that bullet still inside him that could cause him to drop dead any any second, due to malpractice from a doctor with ties to crime-syndicate, who only committed malpractice because of his fear over their ties to the criminal world. It's really not a stretch at all that something like that would be enough of a punch to make them want to change their lifestyle.
* This may be a bit picky, but something bugged me when we met Eldoon. The guy Eldoon says that he used to serve Phoenix and his assistant 'back in his lawyer days,' but then later, during the investigation, he reveals that he's only been doing the noodle stand thing for, what, a year? Unless he's using the MASON System to time-travel like a salt-broth-wielding Time Lord, I think not.year?



* In Case 2, why did Dr. Meraktis put the gun in the back of the noodle stand with Alita's body? There would be no reason to put it in the back. If he wanted to dump it in the river, then why wouldn't he carry it on his person?

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* In Case 2, why Why did Dr. Meraktis put the gun in the back of the noodle stand with Alita's body? There would be no reason to put it in the back. If he wanted to dump it in the river, then why wouldn't he carry it on his person?



* In case 4-3, the stage tower is said at first to be 30 feet, then 20, and finally 15. Why the inconsistency?

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* In case 4-3, the The stage tower is said at first to be 30 feet, then 20, and finally 15. Why the inconsistency?



* In Apollo Justice case 3 (Turnabout Seranade) the characters regularly reaffirm that the murder weapon, a 45mm revolver, is so powerful that it would dislocate the shoulder of an adult of average build. How is it then, that someone as small as Machi is the prime suspect, when it should be pretty obvious that if he had fired the gun, the recoil would have done ''a lot'' more damage to damage to him?
** Everyone reaffirms just as often, if not more so, that an experienced shooter can easily go away unscathed. Thus, the Judge assumed that Machi was experienced, as he was the only one who could have conceivably committed the crime. What baffles me is that I'm the only one to notice this.
*** I noticed that as well, but I can't convince myself that experience would be worth anything whatsoever when the attacker has the body of a child. Even the real killer gets injured by using the weapon, and he's a fully trained and experienced member of the police.
** Additionally, Prosecutor Gavin notes that the authorities want a suspect to be found and prosecuted quickly, due to the high-profile nature of the incident. He's aware that there are logical flaws in the case, but he isn't being given the time to investigate properly.
** Ahm, what about the fact that to even get the gun in the first place, tiny Machi would have to wrestle it away from a highly trained Interpol agent that easily dwarfs him?
** Also, Machi would have to bring the dead body of this Interpol agent on the stage, all by himself, in maybe 15 minutes. This Interpol agent was probably three time his size. How did they explain that?
*** Like someone said, the case is so high profile that the D.A.s are putting pressure on the cops and prosecutor's office to find and prosecute a suspect as soon as possible. The case has numerous logical flaws, as Gavin knows, but his bosses are rushing things too much to allow a full investigation. Since Machi is too scared to tell his side, the best Gavin can do is try to push Apollo to find the truth in the trial itself. Such politically-motivated railroading isn't without precedent in real life.
*** You'd think they'd try harder though. What looks worse - taking longer to find a suspect, or going ahead with a trial in which an 14 year old boy is being accused of killing a grown man three times his size? That's just asking to get your case thrown out. Politically motivated rail-roading generally involves an upside to the rail-roader.
*** Also, as a bit of fridge logic, think about the actual outcome of the case. "The D.A. pressured the police and prosecutors to find out who killed an Interpol agent, so they quickly placed blame on an fourteen-year-old child who was believed to be legally blind. During the trial, though, a well-foreheaded defense attorney proved that it was in fact a full-grown fully-trained member of the police force who committed the crime and also used the child as an accomplice in committing another crime that broke international accords and was politically motivated as far as the Chief Justice's office, and was the best friend and bandmate of the prosecutor who accused the child." Would you have ''any'' faith in your police force after reading that?

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* In Apollo Justice case 3 (Turnabout Seranade) the The characters regularly reaffirm that the murder weapon, a 45mm revolver, is so powerful that it would dislocate the shoulder of an adult of average build. How is it then, that someone as small as Machi is the prime suspect, when it should be pretty obvious that if he had fired the gun, the recoil would have done ''a lot'' more damage to damage to him?
** Everyone reaffirms just as often, if not more so, that an experienced shooter can easily go away unscathed. Thus, the Judge assumed that Machi was experienced, as he was the only one who could have conceivably committed the crime. What baffles me is that I'm the only one to notice this.
*** I noticed that as well, but I can't convince myself that experience would be worth anything whatsoever when the attacker has the body of a child. Even the real killer gets injured by using the weapon, and he's a fully trained and experienced member of the police.
** Additionally, Prosecutor Gavin notes that the authorities want a suspect to be found and prosecuted quickly, due to the high-profile nature of the incident. He's aware that there are logical flaws in the case, but he isn't being given the time to investigate properly.
** Ahm, what about the fact that to even get the gun in the first place, tiny Machi would have to wrestle it away from a highly trained Interpol agent that easily dwarfs him?
** Also, Machi would have to bring the dead body of this Interpol agent on the stage, all by himself, in maybe 15 minutes. This Interpol agent was probably three time his size. How did they explain that?
*** Like someone said, the case is so high profile that the D.A.s are putting pressure on the cops and prosecutor's office to find and prosecute a suspect as soon as possible. The case has numerous logical flaws, as Gavin knows, but his bosses are rushing things too much to allow a full investigation. Since Machi is too scared to tell his side, the best Gavin can do is try to push Apollo to find the truth in the trial itself. Such politically-motivated railroading isn't without precedent in real life.
*** You'd think they'd try harder though. What looks worse - taking longer to find a suspect, or going ahead with a trial in which an 14 year old boy is being accused of killing a grown man three times his size? That's just asking to get your case thrown out. Politically motivated rail-roading generally involves an upside to the rail-roader.
*** Also, as a bit of fridge logic, think about the actual outcome of the case. "The D.A. pressured the police and prosecutors to find out who killed an Interpol agent, so they quickly placed blame on an fourteen-year-old child who was believed to be legally blind. During the trial, though, a well-foreheaded defense attorney proved that it was in fact a full-grown fully-trained member of the police force who committed the crime and also used the child as an accomplice in committing another crime that broke international accords and was politically motivated as far as the Chief Justice's office, and was the best friend and bandmate of the prosecutor who accused the child." Would you have ''any'' faith in your police force after reading that?
properly.



** As has already been stated, the thing that everyone seems to misconstrue about this case is the fact that the characters "ignore" the issue with the gun as though Apollo doesn't think to bring it up, and everyone everyone is also conveniently ignoring the problem. That isn't the case. The trial proceedings progress under the assumption that, because Machi is the only possible culprit, he ''must'' be experienced with a gun. As has been pointed out, the judge basically says this several times, but people still seem to misconstrue it has "everyone's ignoring the issue", when it's really a case of "everyone's already silently put the issue to rest". Apollo has no proof that Machi isn't experienced with firearms, Machi can't prove it himself, and Klavier can just counter any argument that he's a kid and his shoulder should be damaged with "he's a strange foreign kid we know nothing about he could have plenty of firearms training". Plus by three quarters of the way through the first trial day, it's also been shown that Interpol is involved (and the ID left is, at first, thought to belong to the killer), and at that point, the assumption then becomes that Machi isn't just some "scared foreign kid", but has some sort of big secret, such as that he's an Interpol agent. I don't get why people make such stink about the issue with the gun being "ignored", when the game constantly makes it obvious that they're not just "ignoring" the issue. The issue just keeps becoming more and more of a non-issue with each new revelation that pops up.
* In case 4-3, Apollo says that Lamirior couldn't have been Daryan's accomplice because the signal for the headset couldn't reach her when she was on top of the tower. But it's already been established that it was Valant on top of the tower, and Lamirior was moving through the vent. Why doesn't anyone mention this?
** Most likely because there was a very narrow window of time that Lamiroir was actually in the vent. Sure, Daryan may have known she was there (or at least that there was some time that Lamiroir was off stage), but he'd still have to get her at just the right time. It's just much simpler to assume that the accomplice was Machi all along; or it just didn't occur to anyone until later.

to:

** As has already been stated, the thing that everyone seems to misconstrue about this case is the fact that the characters "ignore" the issue with the gun as though Apollo doesn't think to bring it up, and everyone everyone is also conveniently ignoring the problem. That isn't the case. The trial proceedings progress under the assumption that, because Machi is the only possible culprit, he ''must'' be experienced with a gun. As has been pointed out, the judge basically says this several times, but people still seem to misconstrue it has "everyone's ignoring the issue", when it's really a case of "everyone's already silently put the issue to rest". Apollo has no proof that Machi isn't experienced with firearms, Machi can't prove it himself, and Klavier can just counter any argument that he's a kid and his shoulder should be damaged with "he's a strange foreign kid we know nothing about he could have plenty of firearms training". Plus by three quarters of the way through the first trial day, it's also been shown that Interpol is involved (and the ID left is, at first, thought to belong to the killer), and at that point, the assumption then becomes that Machi isn't just some "scared foreign kid", but has some sort of big secret, such as that he's an Interpol agent. I don't get why people make such stink about the issue with the gun being "ignored", when the game constantly makes it obvious that they're not just "ignoring" the issue. The issue just keeps becoming more and more of a non-issue with each new revelation that pops up.
* In case 4-3, Apollo says that Lamirior couldn't have been Daryan's accomplice because the signal for the headset couldn't reach her when she was on top of the tower. But it's already been established that it was Valant on top of the tower, and Lamirior was moving through the vent. Why doesn't anyone mention this?
** Most likely because there was a very narrow window of time that Lamiroir was actually in the vent. Sure, Daryan may have known she was there (or at least that there was some time that Lamiroir was off stage), but he'd still have to get her at just the right time. It's just much simpler to assume that the accomplice was Machi all along; or it just didn't occur to anyone until later.
this



* Why did Daryan confess in 4-3? Apollo's entire strategy was to call on a key witness, Machi Tobaye. If Machi testified in that court that he would smuggle a cocoon away from Borginia, then he could avoid both death penalties in US/Japan as well as Borginia. By itself, it makes sense. But Daryan's entire strategy was to say Lamiroir was lying. What stops him from simply saying Machi is lying as well? It would be easier to accuse Machi of lying than Lamiroir of lying. Any rational person would choose no death penalty over death penalty. Daryan was actually right in saying only decisive evidence could prove Apollo's case.

to:

* Why did Daryan confess in 4-3? confess? Apollo's entire strategy was to call on a key witness, Machi Tobaye. If Machi testified in that court that he would smuggle a cocoon away from Borginia, then he could avoid both death penalties in US/Japan as well as Borginia. By itself, it makes sense. But Daryan's entire strategy was to say Lamiroir was lying. What stops him from simply saying Machi is lying as well? It would be easier to accuse Machi of lying than Lamiroir of lying. Any rational person would choose no death penalty over death penalty. Daryan was actually right in saying only decisive evidence could prove Apollo's case.



** Adding on to what the troper right above me said: the only piece of evidence that corroborated Machi's testimony was the burnt guitar, which had traces of the cocoon in it. Of the two, Daryan is the only one who could have plausibly put the cocoon in the guitar. Had Machi not testified, the guitar would have been dropped as a moot point in favor of convicting Machi, since Borginia is very serious about smuggling, Daryan would have testified against Machi. Therefore, Machi confessed so the only crime he committed was burning the evidence IN THE UNITED STATES (or Japan, or Japanifornia, whatever), so he would not face criminal charges in Borginia. Really, it came down to who would confess first, and Machi won, because if Daryan testified, he'd be admitting to murder, too.
** Actually, Machi is the only one of the two who could hsve put the cocoon in the guitar. During Daryan's testimony, it's specifically mentioned that he's never travelled internationally, and specifically not to Borginia.



** Plus, Lamiroir's name literally is "siren". Romein had supposedly learned English as a second language, so it's possible he reverted back to his native tongue as his brain functions ceased.
** The really confusing bit about that is that he names Lamiroir, when it would make a lot more sense to name Daryan.
*** He clearly said he didn't know who shot him.
*** Where exactly did he say it? I've just played through the whole game and don't remember such a moment. On the contrary, Daryan would've had no reason to even murder an Interpol agent unless he was discovered, and even the Ace Attorney wiki says that's what happened - Romein found Daryan out and confronted him about the smuggling during Lamiroir's performance, so Daryan had to wrestle the gun from him, shoot him and cover it all up on the spot, including the unfortunate burning of the cocoon.



** But I've seen a documentary about a man who suddenly lost all memories of his own identity but could still speak English. That I can believe. What I can't believe is that the bullet would remove memory of one term from her brain but leave the rest intact.
*** Memory loss comes in various forms and it is possible to forget only one thing or person while remembering everything else.
*** The obvious answer would be that that ''wasn't'' the only word she forgot, just the only one that came up in conversation.
*** My understanding was that the amnesia from her accident coupled with ending up in Borginia made Borginian her "native tongue," and English her "second" language. A bit farfetched, yes, but this is Ace Attorney we're talking about.
*** She says that she doesn't know how she came to know English, so it is her "first" language.
*** What if Borginian was her first language anyway, and English her second? We don't know anything about her prior to her career with Troupe Gramayre. She could have been a Borginian immigrant anyway, in which case it would make sense that she'd default to Borginian when she wakes up with no memory, surrounded by people speaking Borginian.
*** Revelations in "Turnabout Successor" render that line of inquiry a dead end.
*** Maybe she just didn't know what a ventilation shaft was? It is a pretty common thing, but I wouldn't put it past a native English speaker to be unfamiliar of that particular term.
** Also consider that she had signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement regarding her "teleportation" trick, and indicating that she had traveled through the ventilation tunnels might have given away too many details about the trick.
*** Uh, it's not just one term she could not remember. She was also unable to name the grate as the place she heard it from, even though it would not have revealed the trick. In fact, it is possible to interpret it as a mild case of dysnomia.
** I'm a native French speaker, but I spend all my time either on English forums or listening to English shows, and I often fumble with words in my native tongue that I know in English but can't remember in french until someone guesses right based on my description. And before someone asks, yes, I am otherwise entirely natural-sounding, there's just some words that I ''know'' I know but can't recall on the spot. I'd say Lamiroir doing the same can be excused considering she learned Borginian and probably wasn't exposed to English frequently.
** As someone who takes repair requests for public housing, you'd be very surprised how many native English speakers don't know/recall the words for basic building structures, including ventilation shafts and air-vents. Granted, the people I talk to are normally stressed out because the grate is falling or the exhaust fan isn't working, but Lamiroir was probably in a significantly more stressful situation than someone with a moldy bathroom and was revealed to have pre-existing brain damage and memory issues (which I can't ''conclusively'' claim for most of the people who call me).
** There is a zone of the brain that deals with linguistics. A direct trauma there can make you forget entire languages. It could be that the bullet scratched that part enough to make her forget about half of what she knew about English, and being in Borginia she had no easy way to learn it back.



** I guess so, unless the case highlighted the ridiculousness of the Borginian cocoon laws enough for people to get really incensed about it to the point where Borginian law was forced to change, or there was residue left in Gavin's guitar case that retained the healing properties.
** Alternatively to the above theory, Borginia could have simply sent over some of the already-created remedy. It's been a while since I played, but I'm pretty sure that would work, even if they'd be a bit reluctant to do so.
** Yes. Not everyone gets to have a happy ending all the time.
** Or had the Chief Justice's son flown to Borginia for the treatment.

to:

** I guess so, unless the case highlighted the ridiculousness of the Borginian cocoon laws enough for people to get really incensed about it to the point where Borginian law was forced to change, or there was residue left in Gavin's guitar case that retained the healing properties.
change.
** Alternatively to the above theory, Borginia could have simply sent over some of the already-created remedy. It's been a while since I played, but I'm pretty sure that would work, even if they'd be a bit reluctant to do so.
** Yes. Not everyone gets to have a happy ending all the time.
remedy.
** Or they just had the Chief Justice's son flown to Borginia for the treatment.



** I think that there's nothing to stop it, but it's because of that there are so few people outside Borginia who know the power of the cocoon. Lamiroir doesn't know why it was banned for smuggling outside of the country when she's supposedly citizen of Borginia; if a citizen doesn't know much, what do you expect of foreigners?

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** I think that there's nothing to stop it, but it's because of that there are so few people outside Borginia who know the power of the cocoon. Lamiroir doesn't know why it was banned for smuggling outside of the country when she's supposedly a citizen of Borginia; if a citizen doesn't know much, what do you expect of foreigners?



*** A doctor would, but John Q. Averageguy wouldn't. Also, even if the doctor mentioned it, Borginia is supposedly somewhere in northern Europe, so perhaps not a lot of people would be able to afford going there. Finally, it's mentioned that the minister's son is the first case of incuritis in America - perhaps it was only diagnosed in a later stage and they can't move the minister's son anymore, therefore requiring someone to get the cocoon to him.

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*** A doctor would, but John Q. Averageguy wouldn't. Also, even if the doctor mentioned it, Borginia is supposedly somewhere in northern Europe, so perhaps not a lot of people would be able to afford going there. Finally, it's mentioned that the minister's Chief Justice's son is the first case of incuritis in America - perhaps it was only diagnosed in a later stage and they can't move the minister's son him anymore, therefore requiring someone to get the cocoon to him.



* Case 4-3. You prove that the pianist is playing with only one hand by using the video. However, Klavier, who would know the sheet music well, says that it would be possible to play the song with only one hand, meaning the part in question does not have to have both hands playing at that part, making it impossible to conclusively say that he pressed the switch at that moment. Klavier realizes that the bass clef portion is missing only after the video is presented as evidence, which is illogical since he should have known that it was missing while listening to the playback unless the part pointed out only has the treble clef portion playing. Since there apparently is only one hand playing during the part in question, there is no proof that the pianist did press the switch.
** First off, it's the top part (treble clef) that's missing. Second, he very easily could have been paying close attention that time. As for 'knowing the sheet music', from the dialogue it seemed to me that the piano part was supposed to be improvised, and Klavier gave Machi directions to play "in the background" or something; so he didn't know specifically what Machi would play (and remember Lamiroir wrote the music, not Klavier). The basic point, I think, is that the feel of the music, as it were, clearly drops out at the point for no reason, especially put into context of the same spot earlier.

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* Case 4-3. You prove that the pianist is playing with only one hand by using the video. However, Klavier, who would know the sheet music well, says that it would be possible to play the song with only one hand, meaning the part in question does not have to have both hands playing at that part, making it impossible to conclusively say that he pressed the switch at that moment. Klavier realizes that the bass clef portion is missing only after the video is presented as evidence, which is illogical since he should have known that it was missing while listening to the playback unless the part pointed out only has the treble clef portion playing. Since there apparently is only one hand playing during playing.
** Having just replayed
the part in question, there is no proof that the pianist did press the switch.
** First off,
case, and watched a recording to double-check, Klavier never once says whether it's the top part (treble clef) that's missing. Second, he very easily could have been paying close attention that time. As for 'knowing the sheet music', from the dialogue it seemed to me that the piano part was supposed to be improvised, and Klavier gave Machi directions possible to play "in the background" or something; so he didn't know specifically what Machi would play (and remember Lamiroir wrote part with one hand. It's actually Daryan who says that, and it's mostly just in the music, not Klavier). The basic point, I think, is sense that the feel of the music, as it were, clearly drops out at the point for no reason, especially put into context of the same spot earlier.Apollo can't prove otherwise.



** It's possible that they were watching the performance instead of hanging out in the dressing room. Hey, it's a once-in-a-lifetime occurence and I'd want to stick around to see it too. Although, if that's the case, why did none of them think Daryan's absence would be odd?
** Not too sure about this, but who says the Gavinners weren't performing during Lamiroir's big number? Maybe what they meant in the games texts is that they weren't on the spotlight, but if you think about it... During the "Guilty Love" performance shown in the mix machine there are five instruments playing (main guitar (Gavin), second guitar (Daryan), bass, synth, and drums). In Lamiroir's performance there are five instruments as well (Gavin, Lamiroir, Machi, bass and drums). Assuming that bass and drums in Lamiroir's performance are the same people that in Guilty Love (why would you hire random people if it can be perfectly be played by them?) that would leave only Daryan and Synth guy as suspects. But Synth guy didn't show up during any part of the case.
*** I recall Gavin mentioning that his bass player and drummer took part in act 2 in one of his dialogues, so I guess that confirms it.

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** It's possible that they were watching the performance instead of hanging out in the dressing room. Hey, it's a once-in-a-lifetime occurence and I'd want to stick around to see it too. Although, if that's the case, why did none of them think Daryan's absence would be odd?
** Not too sure about this, but who says the Gavinners weren't performing during Lamiroir's big number? Maybe what they meant in the games texts is that they weren't on the spotlight, but if you think about it... During the "Guilty Love" performance shown in the mix machine there are five instruments playing (main guitar (Gavin), second guitar (Daryan), bass, synth, and drums). In Lamiroir's performance there are five instruments as well (Gavin, Lamiroir, Machi, bass and drums). Assuming that bass and drums in Lamiroir's performance are the same people that in Guilty Love (why would you hire random people if it can be perfectly be played by them?) that would leave only Daryan and Synth guy as suspects. But Synth guy didn't show up during any part of the case.
*** I recall Gavin mentioning
Klavier mentions at one point that his bass player bassist and drummer also took part in act 2 in one of his dialogues, so I guess that confirms it. the serenade performance.



** Personally, I always thought that the real reason Daryan missed his mark was because he speed-pressed the button, NOT because his arm was injured. It would make sense...
*** In which case, he could just drop the switch off in the piano after the performance. He probably picked it up from there too, telling Machi to keep it in the piano; he could even have used ''the victim's'' headset to monitor the scene, knowing when to set the firecrackers off
* In Case 3, why does nobody think it odd that Machi is discovered unresponsive, apparently unconscious, beside a body he'd likely have never been able to move on his own, certainly not in the time he had available? At least, given his scramble to get away from the body when he walks in on Apollo, it's highly unlikely that he'd have just lain there waiting for the hammer to fall, no matter what his co-conspirator said, so Daryan probably needed to subdue him - not difficult, but certainly conspicuous!
** Well, at the time the body was discovered nobody had known that Daryan was involved, and they were too busy trying to find the body to pay much attention to what Daryan was doing, probably. Though I still have no idea why this didn't occur to anyone later on in the case...
* Why didn't Daryan ever try to defend himself by saying something along the lines of "you can't prove when the firecrackers went off?" Yeah, we know who has an alibi for which time period and that bangs were heard during both the second and third sets. You'd think Daryan (and maybe Klavier) would have insisted that there wasn't enough proof regarding which noises were fake and which were real.
** Given how Romein was shot in the shoulder and apparently took quite a while to actually die, you could argue that he had to have shot during the second act, or else he'd have a better chance of living (as he'd be discovered right after being shot and could get medical attention). And if he had to have been shot in the second act in order to die during the third act, then Daryan trying to make something up about the fireworks wouldn't have worked out.
* This is very minor, but still bugs me a little... Is there any reason that [=Romein LeTouse's=] profile in the Court Record is named simply "[=LeTouse=]"? The first time you meet him, his profile description even says "First name: Romein", but why is he the only character ever whose profile isn't named after his full name?

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** Personally, I always thought that the real reason Daryan missed his mark was because he speed-pressed the button, NOT because his arm was injured. It would make sense...
*** In which case, he could just drop the switch off in the piano after the performance. He probably picked it up from there too, telling Machi to keep it in the piano; he could even have used ''the victim's'' headset to monitor the scene, knowing when to set the firecrackers off
* In Case 3, why Why does nobody think it odd that Machi is discovered unresponsive, apparently unconscious, beside a body he'd likely have never been able to move on his own, certainly not in the time he had available? At least, given his scramble to get away from the body when he walks in on Apollo, it's highly unlikely that he'd have just lain there waiting for the hammer to fall, no matter what his co-conspirator said, so Daryan probably needed to subdue him - not difficult, but certainly conspicuous!
** Well, at the time the body was discovered nobody had known One possibility is that Daryan some sort of backstage trolley was involved, and they were too busy trying used to find move the body to pay much attention to what Daryan body; as long as Machi/Daryan was doing, probably. Though I still have no idea why this didn't occur to anyone later on in the case...
* Why didn't Daryan ever try to defend himself by saying something along the lines of "you can't prove when the firecrackers went off?" Yeah, we know who has an alibi
alone for which time period and that bangs were heard during both the second and third sets. You'd think Daryan (and maybe Klavier) would have insisted that there wasn't long enough proof regarding to pull it off, which noises were fake and which were real.
** Given how Romein
the game implies was shot in the shoulder and apparently took quite a while to actually die, you could argue that he had to have shot during the second act, or else he'd have a better chance of living (as he'd be discovered right after being shot and could get medical attention). And if he had to have been shot in the second act in order to die during the third act, case, then Daryan trying to make something up about the fireworks wouldn't have worked out.
it's not an impossibility.
* This is very minor, but still bugs me a little... Is there any reason that [=Romein LeTouse's=] profile in the Court Record is named simply "[=LeTouse=]"? The first time you meet him, his profile description even says "First name: Romein", but why is he the only character ever whose profile isn't named after his full name?



* In case 4-3, why didn't Lamiroir ever just say "the window I'm talking about is on the ceiling"? I get that she got mixed up with how you refer to the ventilation shaft, and everyone thought she was referring to the the actual window due to her misunderstanding of the English terms, but surely she would have therefore thought there were two windows at the scene, the actual window and the grate. So she should have at least known that they were getting confused between the two and tried to clarify by saying the window she's talking about it on the ceiling, or something similar. In fact, since everyone seemed to be saying she couldn't have heard the voices through the window, despite the "window" clearly letting sound through it, you'd think she'd have had the common sense to put two and two together and go "I'm referring to the window on the ceiling with slits to let sound through, not the one made of glass that was shut", or something similar. She doesn't clarify which window she was talking about until Apollo asks her. Which in a normal court could be seen as realistic considering the "you don't ask, you won't know" saying does actually apply to realistic cross-examining, but that doesn't apply in the Ace Attorney courtroom.

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* In case 4-3, why Why didn't Lamiroir ever just say "the window I'm talking about is on the ceiling"? I get that she got mixed up with how you refer to the ventilation shaft, and everyone thought she was referring to the the actual window due to her misunderstanding of the English terms, but surely she would have therefore thought there were two windows at the scene, the actual window and the grate. So she should have at least known that they were getting confused between the two and tried to clarify by saying the window she's talking about it on the ceiling, or something similar. In fact, since everyone seemed to be saying she couldn't have heard the voices through the window, despite the "window" clearly letting sound through it, you'd think she'd have had the common sense to put two and two together and go "I'm referring to the window on the ceiling with slits to let sound through, not the one made of glass that was shut", or something similar. She doesn't clarify which window she was talking about until Apollo asks her. Which in a normal court could be seen as realistic considering the "you don't ask, you won't know" saying does actually apply to realistic cross-examining, but that doesn't apply in the Ace Attorney courtroom.ceiling"?



* The entire thing in 4-3 about Machi and Lamiroir faking being blind and being sighted? First of all, unless you're Daredevil you ''simply cannot'' successfully pretend to be sighted while really being blind. That's not even close to feasible. Not to mention that it makes no sense for Machi to have to pretend to be blind for fickin' marketing reasons.
** To answer your question of how, it's not that complicated. Lamiroir's staff knew about her condition so they were able to plan her publicity events and her concert rehearsals accordingly. In addition to that, she always had Machi at her side, giving her signals about surrounding. To answer the why, by the time Lamiroir's record label had learned she was blind they had already built up the image of her being a landscape painter. So to avoid bad publicity they made Machi pretend to be blind because it was the most convenient solution. Lamirior herself admitted that she thought the whole thing was silly but she went along with it because it was in her contract.



* The Chief Justice obviously knew that Borginian Cocoons had a cure for Incuritis. It's highly illegal to take the cocoons out of Borginia. So why doesn't the Chief Justice just fly his son to Borginia and cure him there? He's the Chief Justice, I'm sure he'd be able to afford it, and get the resources for such a thing.
* So I'm surprised no one's brought this up yet. Throughout the episode, a big deal is made about the lyrics of Guitar's Serenade matching the events of the crim to the point where it's characters constantly reiterate that there's no way it could be a coincidence. Then you find out the reason the killer did it: to make cement their alibi , by reversing the order of the "bullet" and the "fire" on purpose. But...it turns out that it really WAS just a coincidence. Daryan and Machi's smuggling operation just happened to match the lyrics of the song. Now my problem isn't with the fact that "it really was a coincidence after all" was the ultimate answer to the mystery behind the "song prediction" (although given how much they constantly empathise "it can't be a coincidence" it seems like a tacky "twist" to throw onto it). My problem is that if it was a coincidence how the hell does any of that stuff about reversing the song order make sense, and why is it never explained that Apollo was wrong about that? I guess you can just assume that Apollo was wrong, and people know he's wrong now, and no one bothers bringing it up, but the way it's presented makes it seem like they were trying to imply that Apollo's logic wasn't wrong and Daryan somehow did both. Namely that he carried out the smuggling op unaware that it was mimicking the lyrics, but also purposefully shot LeTouse before commanding Machi to press the switch. How does that make any sense?
** They weren't saying Daryan did both. Apollo's logic was that Daryan unknowingly followed the lyrics of the song up until the murder was carried out, staging the scene with the impression that it happened during the third act to give himself an alibi. Then, when the resemblance to the song was pointed out, he staged Machi and LeTouse atop the tower, just to really get everyone thinking the song was a blueprint and that the shooting definitely happened after the guitar caught fire. Therefore, the only coincidence was that the song lyrics and the smuggling scheme both involved stolen keys, something burning, and a shooting that killed someone. Which is still a coincidence, but not so far fetched as to be impossible.
* Related to the above: even before it's made apparent that the "song prediction" was a coincidence, no one stops to consider the fact that there's no proof that Daryan said "press the switch" specifically ''before'' he shot LeTouse. To my memory, Lamiroir never specifies that Daryan speaking came after the shooting. I mean sure, they could have easily just asked her, but it's strange that no one takes five seconds out of their time to ask Lamiroir if the gunshots or "press the switch" came first.
* When we learn that the actual killing went down in act 2 of the concert, why didn't it occur to us that when we entered the Lamiroir's changing room, LeTouse was still alive? If he was alive that long of a time period, why didn't he cry for help when Daryan fled the room?
** He could have passed out from the pain of being shot, and been roused by the sounds of his body being discovered.
* How did Mr. Letouse know that Lamiroir had been a witness to his killing? It's established on the second day that she witnessed it from the air vent, on the other side of the room, and was only there for a second or two. How did he know she was there?
* Why didn’t Daryan get around to removing the firecracker remnants from the crime scene before they were discovered? He had a full day to do so before the first court session where he was fingered by Lamiroir, and Ema didn’t come across them until the second trial day.

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* The Chief Justice obviously knew that Borginian Cocoons had a cure for Incuritis. It's highly illegal to take the cocoons out of Borginia. So why doesn't the Chief Justice just fly his son to Borginia and cure him there? He's the Chief Justice, I'm sure he'd be able to afford it, and get the resources for such a thing.
* So I'm surprised no one's brought this up yet. Throughout the episode, a big deal is made about the lyrics of Guitar's Serenade matching the events of the crim to the point where it's characters constantly reiterate that there's no way it could be a coincidence. Then you find out the reason the killer did it: to make cement their alibi , by reversing the order of the "bullet" and the "fire" on purpose. But...it turns out that it really WAS just a coincidence. Daryan and Machi's smuggling operation just happened to match the lyrics of the song. Now my problem isn't with the fact that "it really was a coincidence after all" was the ultimate answer to the mystery behind the "song prediction" (although given how much they constantly empathise "it can't be a coincidence" it seems like a tacky "twist" to throw onto it). My problem is that if it was a coincidence how the hell does any of that stuff about reversing the song order make sense, and why is it
** If you've never explained that Apollo was wrong about that? I guess you can just assume that Apollo was wrong, and people know he's wrong now, and no one bothers bringing it up, but the way it's presented makes it seem like they were trying to imply that Apollo's logic wasn't wrong and Daryan somehow did both. Namely that he carried out the smuggling op unaware that it was mimicking the lyrics, but also purposefully shot LeTouse before commanding Machi to press the switch. How does that make any sense?
** They weren't saying Daryan did both. Apollo's logic was that Daryan unknowingly followed the lyrics of the song up until the murder was carried out, staging the scene with the impression that it happened during the third act to give himself an alibi. Then, when the resemblance to the song was pointed out, he staged Machi and LeTouse atop the tower, just to really get everyone thinking the song was
actually held a blueprint and that the shooting definitely happened after the guitar caught fire. Therefore, the only coincidence was that the song lyrics and the smuggling scheme both involved stolen keys, something burning, and a shooting that killed someone. Which is still a coincidence, but not so far fetched as to be impossible.
* Related to the above: even before it's made apparent that the "song prediction" was a coincidence, no one stops to consider the fact that there's no proof that Daryan said "press the switch" specifically ''before'' he shot LeTouse. To my memory, Lamiroir never specifies that Daryan speaking came after the shooting. I mean sure,
before, they could have easily just asked her, but it's strange that no one takes five seconds out of their time to ask Lamiroir if the gunshots or "press the switch" came first.
* When we learn that the actual killing went down in act 2 of the concert, why didn't it occur to us that when we entered the Lamiroir's changing room, LeTouse was still alive? If he was alive that long of a time period, why didn't he cry for help when Daryan fled the room?
** He could have passed out from the pain of being shot, and been roused by the sounds of his body being discovered.
* How did Mr. Letouse know that Lamiroir had been a witness to his killing? It's established on the second day that she witnessed it from the air vent, on the other side of the room, and was only there for a second or two. How did he know she was there?
* Why didn’t Daryan get around to removing the firecracker remnants from the crime scene before they were discovered? He had a full day to do so before the first court session where he was fingered by Lamiroir, and Ema didn’t come across them until the second trial day.
aren't exactly light.



* Why was a dying cancer patient even allowed to keep a loaded gun he could use to shot himself in his hospital room? Yes, it's a one of his stage prop, not a "proper gun", but obviously it's fully capable of firing real shots, and it was ''loaded.'' Either the hospital staff didn't bother checking the gun out at all or they did but didn't do anything about it. Either way, the hospital should be sued to kingdom come for gross negligence that lead to Magnifi's suicide.

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* Why was a dying cancer patient even allowed to keep a loaded gun he could use to shot himself in his hospital room? Yes, it's a one of his stage prop, not a "proper gun", but obviously it's fully capable of firing real shots, and it was ''loaded.'' Either the hospital staff didn't bother checking the gun out at all or they did but didn't do anything about it. Either way, the hospital should be sued to kingdom come for gross negligence that lead to Magnifi's suicide.''



** I personally interpreted Magnifi as a vindictive bastard using his own suicide to get justice for his daughter. I could not figure out from the case whether or not he knew his daughter survived and hid it from the boys, but he either thought one of them killed his daughter or thought one of them almost killed his daughter, and hid the fact of her survival (if he knew) and blackmailed them to extract the 'due consequences' for attempted murder (or murder as he believed) of his daughter- since he couldn't prosecute against them without killing the name of Troupe Gramayre. With his last act, I see him seeking justice for Thalassa- since at the time no one knew who shot him, he decided to commit assisted suicide, find his worthy successor, and set things up to chance such that, similar to the 'chance' of the culprit that took his daughter's life away, 'chance' and worthiness of behavior would decide which of the men would be in prison for attempted murder of Magnifi's person (which could be prosecuted, unlike Thalassa's). I think even if he committed suicide like planned, if one of them had fallen for it and shot him like he set it up, Magnifi would still have his "justice"- and either way both of his disciples would be investigated as they should have been and Magnifi would go out with a literal bang.
* On another note, I am quite suspicious of Apollo's dad's death. Was it really truly only an accident?
** Answered in ''Spirit of Justice'': No, but he didn't die on stage, either. Brushel was probably mistaken.
* I suppose this is more of a general inquiry, but how does Zak manage to escape the courthouse? Yes, Trucy did her trick with Mr. Hat to get the bailiff chasing the wrong person, but is it seriously THAT easy to get away? Once he shook the bailiff he was home free, with not a single other law enforcement officer on the premises? I mean, if it was that easy all along then why even go through with the trial at all? If he didn't want to be declared innocent because it would put Valant at risk of being arrested then why not just run before the trial even began?
** To be fair, the bailiff, Meekins to be specific, was not prepared for what was going on, and he couldn't have known that Trucy would able to be able to pull off a stunt like that. The better question is how Zak managed to seemingly "vanish" from the courtroom itself in the first place. Especially since Meekins specifically says that he came running out through the doors.
* This is something that's confused me for quite a while about the flashback case. Zak shoots a gun off in a hospital, and yet he has time to chat with Magnifi for ten minutes without anyone coming to investigate? I wouldn't buy that the guns are silences, both because they're used in a stage show, and it's specifically said something to the effect of, "It appeared Magnifi was sleeping, but even if he wasn't the shot would have woken him up anyway." Which implies that it makes a sound like a real gun when it fires. Is everyone deaf in the hospital?

to:

** I personally interpreted Magnifi as a Maybe he was feeling vindictive bastard using his own suicide to get justice and viewed the potential investigation as commeupance for his daughter. I could not figure out from the case whether or not he knew his daughter survived and hid it from the boys, but he either thought one of them killed his daughter or thought one of them almost killed his daughter, and hid the fact of her survival (if he knew) and blackmailed them what happened to extract the 'due consequences' for attempted murder (or murder as he believed) of his daughter- since he couldn't prosecute against them without killing the name of Troupe Gramayre. With his last act, I see him seeking justice for Thalassa- since at the time no one knew who shot him, he decided to commit assisted suicide, find his worthy successor, and set things up to chance such that, similar to the 'chance' of the culprit that took his daughter's life away, 'chance' and worthiness of behavior would decide which of the men would be in prison for attempted murder of Magnifi's person (which could be prosecuted, unlike Thalassa's). I think even if he committed suicide like planned, if one of them had fallen for it and shot him like he set it up, Magnifi would still have his "justice"- and either way both of his disciples would be investigated as they should have been and Magnifi would go out with a literal bang.
Thalassa?
* On another note, I am quite suspicious of Apollo's dad's death. Was it really truly only an accident?
** Answered in ''Spirit of Justice'': No, but he didn't die on stage, either. Brushel was probably mistaken.
* I suppose this is more of a general inquiry, but how does
How did Zak manage to escape the courthouse? Yes, Trucy did her trick with Mr. Hat to get the bailiff chasing the wrong person, but is it seriously THAT easy to get away? Once he shook the bailiff he was home free, with not a single other law enforcement officer on the premises? I mean, if it was that easy all along then why even go through with the trial at all? If he didn't want to be declared innocent because it would put Valant at risk of being arrested then why not just run before the trial even began?
** To be fair, the bailiff, Meekins He had some way of appearing to be specific, was not prepared for what was going on, and he couldn't have known that Trucy would able to be able to pull off a stunt like that. The better question is how Zak managed to seemingly "vanish" vanish from the courtroom itself in the first place. Especially since instantaneously, and with Meekins specifically says getting hung up with Trucy in the lobby, he would've had a nice head start before anyone realized he was gone. And if you consider that he he'd planned on escaping if it came running out through to that, he could have also had some type of disguise at the doors.
* This is something that's confused me for quite a
ready to change into, again, while about Meekins was dealing with Trucy.
** As for why he bothered with
the flashback case. tral at all, probably just in case the getaway wasn't necessary. If Phoenix had managed to get him declared innocent, you can imagine hwe would prefer that over having to escape custody and go on the run.
*
Zak shoots a gun off in a hospital, and yet he has time to chat with Magnifi for ten minutes without anyone coming to investigate? I wouldn't buy that the guns are silences, silenced, both because they're used in a stage show, and it's specifically said something to the effect of, "It appeared Magnifi was sleeping, but even if he wasn't the shot would have woken him up anyway." Which implies that it makes a sound like a real gun when it fires. Is everyone deaf in the hospital?



* Why didn't Zak just show Phoenix the ''actual'' diary page in the first place? Think of all the misery that would have prevented.
** Misplaced loyalty towards his friend, perhaps?
** He's a massive jerk? He possibly shoots his wife, steals his partner's future, rejects a perfectly competent defense attorney because he can't play poker, abandons his child, promising to come back but never does, and then when he shows up 7 years latter, not to see his child or apologize, but to play poker! That he cheats at! Gah! What a jerk!
*** You are quite adept at taking things out of context and twisting facts. 1. Zak (possibly) shoots his wife ''on accident'' and regrets it. 2. He inherited the magic techniques from Magnifi; it's not his fault his partner is basically screwed without them. 3. Zak's "competent defense attorney" is a terrible human being, which he discovered through poker. 4. Zak would have gone to Trucy had he not been killed. 5. He shows up seven years later mainly to ensure Trucy's inheritance of Magnifi's techniques. Poker was secondary. You've got a point about him abandoning Trucy, but that's it.
*** It's not his fault. Understanding his words is a two step process. Step 1: [[http://imgur.com/a/8QVtO read up on these six comics]] courtesy of [[http://gigidigi.tumblr.com/ Gigi Digi/hiimdaisy]].
** Agreed that he is a massive jerk. Leaving the major plot related stuff that was mentioned aside, in which there are circumstantial excuses for his behavior, he hires a phony card dealer to bring down the career of the guy who ''he got disbarred'' and is ''raising his daughter when said circumstances made Zak abandon Trucy'', and when the phony card dealer messes up, goes to beat her up HITTING HER NECK WITH A BOTTLE OF WINE SO HARD SHE GOES UNCONSCIOUS. His good friend the reporter, he punches every so often (and more often in the beginning of their friendship). Oh, and why does Zak decide to try to wreck the (second) career of the guy he entrusted his daughter to and is taking good care of Trucy (and whom Zak was involved in wrecking Phoenix Wright's first career out of self preservation and bad circumstances)? Because he can't stand losing. That's it. ''This is the guy who he wrecked the career of and whose current career directly puts food on the table and clothes on the back of Zak's daughter.'' He's such a sore loser that he does that. Even if you all explain away his behavior otherwise in regards to the case, he's still a massive jerk who assaults and physically takes out his frustrations on the people around him. That said, I agree with the absent mindedness below (also the lack of time to explain afterwards since reappearing would have been dangerous for him.) During would have spoiled the "trick".
'''SPOILERS WITHIN.''' Step 2: Consider that due to MemeticMutation, this interpretation is often considered canon. Or at least hilarious.
*** It's not his fault that he completely ignored context and canon in favor of a memetic, yet wrong, interpretation of events? Right.
*** Well... 1. He hides the fact that his wife is either dead or missing (depending on how much he knew) from the authorities and his daughter, possibly abandoning her in the middle of a foreign country blind and with no memory. 2. That's fair, especially since Magnifi wanted Valant to continue as Zak's assistant. 3. Definitely true. 4. Zak was specifically planning to go back into hiding for good; he essentially gave his will to Phoenix to make sure Trucy got the rights to Magnifi's magic after Zak was permanently declared dead. 5. True. And of course, there's him hiding the real evidence and having his daughter aide him in running away from authorities in order to protect the reputation of someone who was pretty clearly trying to frame him for murder, therefore letting Phoenix's career go down the crapper without even sticking around to explain that Phoenix couldn't possibly have had the time to set up the forgery in the first place since they'd just met the day before and he hadn't given Phoenix access to the diary in the first place, then left his 8 year old in the care of the guy who just lost his job. Not to mention punching his friend when he speaks too much and violently assaulting his partner when his trick fails (through no fault of hers, as it turned out). Zak was kind of a giant douche.
** Being a jerk is one thing, but having no sense of self-preservation is another.
*** Sometimes, if you want to pull off truly ''awe-inspiring'' feats of douchebaggery, you need to put your life on the line. Zak was probably thinking, "Hmmm... yes, showing him this diary page could save my life. But would it help me reach the highest levels of jerkdom?"
*** To answer my own question, it was because if showing that page failed to clear him, then it would be entered into evidence and he would have to make his escape without it, so Trucy would lose all chance of ever inheriting Magnifi's tricks.
*** That doesn't really make sense, though. The contents of the page would be on the record and copied into multiple case files -- of a rather high-profile case! -- so there would be no doubt that Zak inherited Magnifi's tricks, and thus that Zak's later assignment of the rights to Trucy was valid.
*** I think it is because the page would've been decisive evidence ''against'' Zak. Think about it. Zak is on trial for a murder that he didn't commit, and the missing page from the diary that Magnifi had labelled Zak as his heir. It's a perfect motive for murder. There was no way Phoenix Wright could win the case and discover the truth even ''with'' the true page. That is why Phoenix decided the Jurist System was needed and made it a seven-year mission.
*** If the prosecution argued that Zak's motive was to kill Magnifi for his inheritance, Phoenix could had easily argued that if that was the case, then he wouldn't have stolen the page that named him as Magnifi's heir, as that would defeat the purpose of killing him in the first place. Not to mention that Magnifi was on his deathbed, so why would Zak commit murder and risk prison when he could just wait a little longer?
*** IIRC, he said he didn't show Phoenix the diary page because he was too focused on planning his escape and it didn't occur to him. So not jerkassery, just [[IdiotBall absent-mindedness]].
** Zak didn't want to show the page, because it would case automatic suspicion onto Valant, who had tampered with the crime scene trying to frame Zak. It is implied that one of the reasons Zak chose Phoenix over Kristoph (other than the obvious fact that Kristoph was a sociopath) is that Phoenix was good hearted enough to be used as a patsy so he would be able to keep Valant out of jail '''and''' have an adoptive father to raise Trucy. Basically, Zak got his cake and got to eat it too, at Phoenix's (and Trucy's) expense, and karma caught up to him in the end.
*** Funny, I thought that Zak was killed by a wine bottle, not taser shock or excessive whipping.
*** A grape juice bottle, you mean. [[SubvertedTrope Yes, it's legitimately grape juice,]] it's a in-joke to do with the series creator's favorite drink, and had nothing to do with censorship of any kind.
** To be fair, Zak didn't know about the fake diary page. In his mind, he believed that Phoenix would be unable to convict Valant and then he would escape. Phoenix would come out more-or-less fine (at least reputation-wise) and Valant wouldn't be locked up for something that he didn't do. (Or maybe he figured that Phoenix could show that Valant altered the scene but that Magnifi did, in fact, kill himself, getting them both cleared, with the escape as just a backup). On the other hand, he could probably tell that Kristoph would forge evidence to get Zak acquitted and Valant convicted (which, you know, he did).
** I always thought that the real douchebag was Magnifi. He made his apprentices think that they had killed his daughter. He apparently made the same daughter abandon her child (maybe even her husband if he really isn't dead). He didn't think that making both of his apprentices think that they were getting his will was enough, so he also killed himself just to frame the rejected apprentice of murdering him.
** I didn't think that Zak was really a bad person, he did make some bad choices, but he wasn't evil. About the matters of his wife and Valant, he was manipulated by Magnifi. And for not choosing Kristoph because of a poker match, it does not really say but a popular headcanon is that he averted him cheating.
** He didn't want Valant to be suspected. Who would you rather choose, your defense attorney or your partner of years, and best friend? I should think the answer is obvious.
* Speaking of jerks, what is with everyone in the flashback trial of Zak? Did Phoenix, Klavier, and Gumshoe all take jackass pills that morning? Phoenix is unusually condescending towards Klavier, Klavier is being much more cocky than normal, and Gumshoe is being unprecedentedly arrogant towards Phoenix.
** Phoenix has every ''right'' to be cocky. He just beat Dahlia Hawthorne and Godot, closing the book on one of the biggest unfinished parts of his life in the process and finally surpassed his mentor as well. ''Plus,'' Klavier was a complete greenhorn. For the first time, Phoenix wasn't going up against some super-experienced prosecutor (yes, Godot had never prosecuted before, but he was by no means a newbie). Of course Phoenix would be a little cocky. Regarding Klavier, he's a seventeen-year-old rock star who managed to pass the bar. That's ''three years'' before Miles Edgeworth, who was famous for being a prosecuting prodigy. If he was acting humble, I'd declare that some pretty gross CharacterDerailment. As for Gumshoe... okay, I don't really have an explanation. Maybe he got a raise after State v. Iris and it went to his head?
*** Regarding the last one, ''Investigations'' takes place between the third game and this one, and it provides plenty of evidence that Gumshoe's salary continued to do nothing but plummet. Of course, that was made after this game. Perhaps the second installment will shed more light on things?
*** Edgeworth does give Gumshoe a raise in ''Investigations 2'', which could be used to retroactively explain Gumshoe's behavior during the trial.
*** While you have a point about Phoenix, you'd think that defeating Manfred, who had a 40-year win streak, solving a 15-year-old murder case, and taking down Gant, all in his first year as a lawyer would have given him a pretty big ego boost when Justice for All rolled around. So... maybe him being arrogant in the 4-4 flashback isn't as out of character as we thought, but still a bit so.
*** His mood after beating Manfred and Gant was probably dampened considerably by the belief his best friend he had dedicated his life to helping just killed himself. His ego boost in the flashback trial isn't just from winning case 3-5, it's from him effectively closing every last plot thread of his life up until that point.
*** Phoenix might have every right to be somewhat cocky, but that doesn't make it in-character. Furthermore, he says multiple times that there's "no substitute for experience," when the entire trilogy is him defeating prosecutors with far more experience than him. He defeated Manfred von Karma, who had 40 years of experience, in his fourth month as a defense attorney, and now he's acting like it's impossible for a new prosecutor, in a system where the prosecution is greatly favored, to defeat an attorney that's been around for just three years and gets by mainly through bluffing and luck. This is just a few months after Phoenix was impersonated, humiliated, and only won because the killer was an idiot that described the murder weapon in detail in front of the entire court. He doesn't even defeat Dahlia himself; that's Mia's trash-talking doing the work.
** Phoenix has taken on plenty of prodigy prosecutors during his time, namely Edgeworth, Godot, and the von Karmas who are all presumably better than Klavier (and more experienced when Phoenix faced them). He's confident in his skills and I think mentions that Klavier is just the new "prodigy" that the prosecution office is selling. As stated, Klavier is a rock star who just got his first hit and is getting his ego boosted further by the fact that the prosecutor's office is praising him as a prodigy and putting him against Wright, probably the best defense attorney in the "US." Gumshoe didn't seem that cocky to me but rather more playfully edging Wright on. Wright is his rival in the courtroom (although they have worked on the same side many times) and Gumshoe wants to get his win.
*** I agree that Gumshoe wasn't malicious here, though he was perhaps a bit overconfident--but that's hardly unprecedented for him. Gumshoe tends to lean more sympathetically with Wright on cases where he knows the people involved personally (such as Maggey or Maya), but that isn't the case here. Gumshoe didn't have any reason to think this case would have any lasting consequences for anyone he knew--Wright had barely met his client last night--so Gumshoe only saw this as a repercussion-free chance to prove his competence to one of the best attorneys he knew and, if possible, be on the winning side for once. Unfortunately, this happened to be the case where Phoenix lost his badge and Gumshoe was undoubtedly heartbroken once he realized that he had played any part in it, even if we as the player never got to see it on-screen.
** As for Klavier, I think that the "tip" he got gave him explains his behavior pretty well.
->'''Kristoph''': "The attorney who'll be there in my place tomorrow is not to be trusted. Don't even give him the benefit of your respect."
*** That does seem to be the case, especially since Klavier is shown to have become a lawyer for pretty much the same reasons Phoenix and Apollo did - an interest in the truth. Small wonder he'd show zero respect to someone he thought was forging evidence.
* In flashback case, why didn't Phoenix bring up the fact that he couldn't possibly have had the time to have a forgery made in time for the case, and suggest a search for the real client?

to:

* Why didn't Zak just show Phoenix the ''actual'' diary page in the first place? Think of all the misery that would have prevented.
** Misplaced loyalty towards his friend, perhaps?
** He's a massive jerk?
place?
##
He possibly shoots his wife, steals his partner's future, rejects a perfectly competent defense attorney because he can't play poker, abandons his child, promising to come back but never does, and then when he shows up 7 years latter, not to see his child or apologize, but to play poker! That he cheats at! Gah! What a jerk!
*** You are quite adept at taking things out of context and twisting facts. 1. Zak (possibly) shoots his wife ''on accident'' and regrets it. 2. He inherited the magic techniques from Magnifi; it's not his fault his partner is basically screwed without them. 3. Zak's "competent defense attorney" is a terrible human being, which he discovered through poker. 4. Zak would have gone to Trucy had he not been killed. 5. He shows up seven years later mainly to ensure Trucy's inheritance of Magnifi's techniques. Poker was secondary. You've got a point about him abandoning Trucy, but that's it.
*** It's not his fault. Understanding his words is a two step process. Step 1: [[http://imgur.com/a/8QVtO read up on these six comics]] courtesy of [[http://gigidigi.tumblr.com/ Gigi Digi/hiimdaisy]].
** Agreed that he is a massive jerk. Leaving the major plot related stuff that was mentioned aside, in which there are circumstantial excuses for his behavior, he hires a phony card dealer to bring down the career of the guy who ''he got disbarred'' and is ''raising his daughter when said circumstances made Zak abandon Trucy'', and when the phony card dealer messes up, goes to beat her up HITTING HER NECK WITH A BOTTLE OF WINE SO HARD SHE GOES UNCONSCIOUS. His good friend the reporter, he punches every so often (and more often in the beginning of their friendship). Oh, and why does Zak decide to try to wreck the (second) career of the guy he entrusted his daughter to and is taking good care of Trucy (and whom Zak was involved in wrecking Phoenix Wright's first career out of self preservation and bad circumstances)? Because he can't stand losing. That's it. ''This is the guy who he wrecked the career of and whose current career directly puts food on the table and clothes on the back of Zak's daughter.'' He's such a sore loser that he does that. Even if you all explain away his behavior otherwise in regards to the case, he's still a massive jerk who assaults and physically takes out his frustrations on the people around him. That said, I agree with the absent mindedness below (also the lack of time to explain afterwards since reappearing would have been dangerous for him.) During would have spoiled the "trick".
'''SPOILERS WITHIN.''' Step 2: Consider that due to MemeticMutation, this interpretation is often considered canon. Or at least hilarious.
*** It's not his fault that he completely ignored context and canon in favor of a memetic, yet wrong, interpretation of events? Right.
*** Well... 1. He hides the fact that his wife is either dead or missing (depending on how much he knew) from the authorities and his daughter, possibly abandoning her in the middle of a foreign country blind and with no memory. 2. That's fair, especially since Magnifi wanted Valant to continue as Zak's assistant. 3. Definitely true. 4. Zak was specifically planning to go back into hiding for good; he essentially gave his will to Phoenix to make sure Trucy got the rights to Magnifi's magic after Zak was permanently declared dead. 5. True. And of course, there's him hiding the real evidence and having his daughter aide him in running away from authorities in order to protect the reputation of someone who was pretty clearly trying to frame him for murder, therefore letting Phoenix's career go down the crapper without even sticking around to explain
didn't know that Phoenix couldn't possibly have had the time to set up the forgery in the first place since they'd just met the day before and he hadn't given Phoenix access to the been provided with a fake diary in page.
## He thought that presenting
the first place, then left his 8 year old in the care of the guy who just lost his job. Not to mention punching his friend when he speaks too much and violently assaulting his partner when his trick fails (through no fault of hers, as it turned out). Zak was kind of a giant douche.
** Being a jerk is one thing, but having no sense of self-preservation is another.
*** Sometimes, if you want to pull off truly ''awe-inspiring'' feats of douchebaggery, you need to put your life on the line. Zak was probably thinking, "Hmmm... yes, showing him this
real diary page could save my life. But would it help me reach the highest levels of jerkdom?"
*** To answer my own question, it was because if showing that page failed to clear him, then it would be entered into evidence and he would have to make his escape without it, so Trucy would lose all chance of ever inheriting Magnifi's tricks.
*** That doesn't really make sense, though. The contents of the page would be on the record and copied into multiple case files -- of a rather high-profile case! -- so there would be no doubt that Zak inherited Magnifi's tricks, and thus that Zak's later assignment of the rights to Trucy was valid.
*** I think it is because the page would've been decisive evidence ''against'' Zak. Think about it. Zak is on trial for a murder that he didn't commit, and the missing page from the diary that Magnifi had labelled Zak as his heir. It's a perfect motive for murder. There was no way Phoenix Wright could win the case and discover the truth even ''with'' the true page. That is why Phoenix decided the Jurist System was needed and made it a seven-year mission.
*** If the prosecution argued that Zak's motive was to kill Magnifi for his inheritance, Phoenix could had easily argued that if that was the case, then he wouldn't have stolen the page that named him as Magnifi's heir, as that would defeat the purpose of killing him in the first place. Not to mention that Magnifi was on his deathbed, so why would Zak commit murder and risk prison when he could just wait a little longer?
*** IIRC, he said he didn't show Phoenix the diary page because he was too focused on planning his escape and it didn't occur to him. So not jerkassery, just [[IdiotBall absent-mindedness]].
** Zak didn't want to show the page, because it would case automatic
throw suspicion onto Valant, who had tampered with the crime scene Zak was trying to frame Zak. It is implied that one of protect.
## Even if he had presented
the reasons Zak chose Phoenix over Kristoph (other than the obvious fact that Kristoph was a sociopath) is that Phoenix was good hearted enough to be used as a patsy so he would be able to keep Valant out of jail '''and''' have an adoptive father to raise Trucy. Basically, Zak got his cake and got to eat it too, at Phoenix's (and Trucy's) expense, and karma caught up to him in the end.
*** Funny, I thought that Zak was killed by a wine bottle, not taser shock or excessive whipping.
*** A grape juice bottle, you mean. [[SubvertedTrope Yes, it's legitimately grape juice,]] it's a in-joke to do with the series creator's favorite drink, and had nothing to do with censorship of any kind.
** To be fair, Zak didn't know about the fake
diary page. In his mind, he believed that Phoenix would be unable to convict Valant and then he would escape. Phoenix would come out more-or-less fine (at least reputation-wise) and Valant wouldn't be locked up for something that he didn't do. (Or maybe he figured that Phoenix could show that Valant altered the scene but that Magnifi did, in fact, kill himself, getting them both cleared, with the escape as just a backup). On the other hand, he could probably tell that Kristoph would forge evidence to get Zak acquitted and Valant convicted (which, you know, he did).
** I always thought that the real douchebag was Magnifi. He made his apprentices think that they had killed his daughter. He apparently made the same daughter abandon her child (maybe even her husband if he really isn't dead). He didn't think that making both of his apprentices think that they were getting his will was enough, so he also killed himself just to frame the rejected apprentice of murdering him.
** I didn't think that Zak was really a bad person, he did make some bad choices, but he wasn't evil. About the matters of his wife and Valant, he was manipulated by Magnifi. And for not choosing Kristoph because of a poker match,
page, it does not really say but a popular headcanon is that he averted him cheating.
** He didn't want Valant to be suspected. Who would you rather choose, your defense attorney or your partner of years, and best friend? I should think the answer is obvious.
* Speaking of jerks, what is with everyone in the flashback trial of Zak? Did Phoenix, Klavier, and Gumshoe all take jackass pills that morning? Phoenix is unusually condescending towards Klavier, Klavier is being much more cocky than normal, and Gumshoe is being unprecedentedly arrogant towards Phoenix.
** Phoenix has every ''right'' to be cocky. He just beat Dahlia Hawthorne and Godot, closing the book on one of the biggest unfinished parts of his life in the process and finally surpassed his mentor as well. ''Plus,'' Klavier was a complete greenhorn. For the first time, Phoenix wasn't going up against some super-experienced prosecutor (yes, Godot had never prosecuted before, but he was by no means a newbie). Of course Phoenix would be a little cocky. Regarding Klavier, he's a seventeen-year-old rock star who managed to pass the bar. That's ''three years'' before Miles Edgeworth, who was famous for being a prosecuting prodigy. If he was acting humble, I'd declare that some pretty gross CharacterDerailment. As for Gumshoe... okay, I don't really have an explanation. Maybe he got a raise after State v. Iris and it went to his head?
*** Regarding the last one, ''Investigations'' takes place between the third game and this one, and it provides plenty of evidence that Gumshoe's salary continued to do nothing but plummet. Of course, that was made after this game. Perhaps the second installment will shed more light on things?
*** Edgeworth does give Gumshoe a raise in ''Investigations 2'', which could be used to retroactively explain Gumshoe's behavior during the trial.
*** While you have a point about Phoenix, you'd think that defeating Manfred, who had a 40-year win streak, solving a 15-year-old murder case, and taking down Gant, all in his first year as a lawyer
would have given him a pretty big ego boost when Justice presented an even stronger motive for All rolled around. So... maybe him being arrogant in the 4-4 flashback isn't as out of character as we thought, but still a bit so.
*** His mood after beating Manfred and Gant was probably dampened considerably by the belief his best friend he had dedicated his life
Zak to helping just killed himself. His ego boost in the flashback trial isn't just from winning case 3-5, it's from him effectively closing every last plot thread of his life up until that point.
*** Phoenix might have every right to be somewhat cocky, but that doesn't make it in-character. Furthermore, he says multiple times that there's "no substitute for experience," when the entire trilogy is him defeating prosecutors with far more experience
kill Magnifi than him. He defeated Manfred von Karma, who had 40 years a vague sense of experience, in his fourth month as a defense attorney, and now he's acting like it's impossible for a new prosecutor, in a system where blackmail.
* During
the prosecution is greatly favored, to defeat an attorney that's been around for just three years and gets by mainly through bluffing and luck. This is just a few months after Phoenix was impersonated, humiliated, and only won because the killer was an idiot that described the murder weapon in detail in front of the entire court. He doesn't even defeat Dahlia himself; that's Mia's trash-talking doing the work.
** Phoenix has taken on plenty of prodigy prosecutors during his time, namely Edgeworth, Godot, and the von Karmas who are all presumably better than Klavier (and more experienced when Phoenix faced them). He's confident in his skills and I think mentions that Klavier is just the new "prodigy" that the prosecution office is selling. As stated, Klavier is a rock star who just got his first hit and is getting his ego boosted further by the fact that the prosecutor's office is praising him as a prodigy and putting him against Wright, probably the best defense attorney in the "US." Gumshoe didn't seem that cocky to me but rather more playfully edging Wright on. Wright is his rival in the courtroom (although they have worked on the same side many times) and Gumshoe wants to get his win.
*** I agree that Gumshoe wasn't malicious here, though he was perhaps a bit overconfident--but that's hardly unprecedented for him. Gumshoe tends to lean more sympathetically with Wright on cases where he knows the people involved personally (such as Maggey or Maya), but that isn't the case here. Gumshoe didn't have any reason to think this case would have any lasting consequences for anyone he knew--Wright had barely met his client last night--so Gumshoe only saw this as a repercussion-free chance to prove his competence to one of the best attorneys he knew and, if possible, be on the winning side for once. Unfortunately, this happened to be the case where Phoenix lost his badge and Gumshoe was undoubtedly heartbroken once he realized that he had played any part in it, even if we as the player never got to see it on-screen.
** As for Klavier, I think that the "tip" he got gave him explains his behavior pretty well.
->'''Kristoph''': "The attorney who'll be there in my place tomorrow is not to be trusted. Don't even give him the benefit of your respect."
*** That does seem to be the case, especially since Klavier is shown to have become a lawyer for pretty much the same reasons Phoenix and Apollo did - an interest in the truth. Small wonder he'd show zero respect to someone he thought was forging evidence.
* In
flashback case, why didn't Phoenix bring up the fact that he couldn't possibly have had the time to have a forgery made in time for the case, and suggest a search for the real client?



** It probably wouldn't have done him any good anyway. Whether he knew the evidence was forged or not, it was an irresponsible act to introduce it as evidence when his full knowledge of its provenance was "A girl in a magician's costume handed it to me in the hallway", one that would cost a real-world lawyer his license for sure.
*** If you'll recall 1-5's evidence handbook for the Ace Attorney world, the evidence couldn't be submitted without proof that it was in some way relevant to the case; where the evidence is obtained is not important. The first rule that the Police Department must approve it is often subverted in the series. (I'm just going to say it: this is Ace Attorney we're talking about.) The fact that Klavier had proof that the evidence was forged was just unlucky for Phoenix.
* When you present the nail polish to Vera, her lock breaks with her saying "I promised I wouldn't tell". She doesn't, so why does the lock break, showing she's ready to tell her secret when she isn't? Considering her personality, those locks should have been '''black'''.

to:

** It probably wouldn't have done him any good anyway. Whether he knew the evidence was forged or not, it was an irresponsible act to introduce it as evidence when his full knowledge of its provenance was "A girl in a magician's costume handed it to me in the hallway", one that would cost a real-world lawyer his license for sure.
*** If you'll recall 1-5's evidence handbook for the Ace Attorney world, the evidence couldn't be submitted without proof that it was in some way relevant to the case; where the evidence is obtained is not important. The first rule that the Police Department must approve it is often subverted in the series. (I'm just going to say it: this is Ace Attorney we're talking about.) The fact that Klavier had proof that the evidence was forged was just unlucky for Phoenix.
* When you present the nail polish to Vera, her lock breaks with her saying "I promised I wouldn't tell". She doesn't, so why does the lock break, showing she's ready to tell her secret when she isn't? Considering her personality, those locks should have been '''black'''.isn't?



** There are plenty of times in games 2 and 3 of the VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightTrilogy when people's psyche-locks break without the person actually revealing everything, or when people with much more to hide than 12 year old Vera did have psyche-locks that aren't black.
** ''Dual Destinies'' explains the black psyche locks: Red locks are a secret the person is hiding intentionally, black locks are ones they've hidden deep inside their hearts and aren't meaning to conceal. Since Vera was consciously hiding info about the nail polish, naturally the locks would be red.
** Also, Black Psychelocks are stated to cause permanent damage to the person that has them, if unlocked. Vera is hurt because the secret she promised to keep was revealed, but just that. Kristoph, on the other hand, has Black Psychelocks because he's tremendously jealous of Phoenix (and can't admit it), and he goes completely nuts when he realizes he was given his ultimate defeat... and realizes Phoenix is indeed better than him.

to:

** There are plenty of times in games 2 and 3 of the VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightTrilogy when people's psyche-locks break without the person actually revealing everything, or when people with much more to hide than 12 year old Vera did have psyche-locks that aren't black.
** ''Dual Destinies'' explains the black psyche locks: Red locks are a secret the person is hiding intentionally, black locks are ones they've hidden deep inside their hearts and aren't meaning to conceal. Since Vera was consciously hiding info about the nail polish, naturally the locks would be red.
** Also, Black Psychelocks are stated to cause permanent damage to the person that has them, if unlocked. Vera is hurt because the secret she promised to keep was revealed, but just that. Kristoph, on the other hand, has Black Psychelocks because he's tremendously jealous of Phoenix (and can't admit it), and he goes completely nuts when he realizes he was given his ultimate defeat... and realizes Phoenix is indeed better than him.
everything.



*** Even then, with the crime scene being heavily tampered thanks to Valant... wouldn't a request for further investigation be feasible? It's clear there was next to no investigation prior to the trial...



** Manfred von Karma did the same thing. So yeah, bias towards prosecutors pretty much sums it up.
** Keep in mind that the two situations weren't ''quite'' the same. Lana testified that the forged evidence was secretly used, and it's possible that Gant did the same, after he was arrested. Thus, there was something backing up Edgeworth's word that he was entirely unwitting. In the case of the diary page, there really wasn't much of a way for Phoenix to prove he didn't forge it. The only people able to verify that he was only hired the day before and thus wouldn't have had time to prepare it are Phoenix himself, Zak, and Kristoph. Obviously Phoenix and Zak's words would be discounted, because they'd have reason to lie. Kristoph, as we find out, wouldn't help because he ''wanted'' to get Phoenix disbarred. And while Trucy could say about how she was given the diary page, it's probable her word would be dismissed because of her age and because the defendant's her father, giving her also a reason to lie. Keep in mind that Phoenix apparently is able to re-apply to get his badge back after it was proven that he was tricked into using the false evidence.
* Something that has bugged me the whole inheriting of Magnifi Gramarye's rights to his magic tricks. I get that Maginfi intended to give the rights to Zak after all, which is why he had Zak come in first before Valant. Now the thing that bugs me: if Zak performed the correct action (which is to shoot the clown in the head), what happens if Valant did the same thing Zak does? Does he inherit half of the rights? Or does Maginfi be a jerk and say "Only Zak gets them.."

to:

** Manfred von Karma did the same thing. So yeah, bias towards prosecutors pretty much sums it up.
** Keep in mind that the two situations weren't ''quite'' the same. Lana testified that the forged evidence was secretly used, and it's possible that Gant did the same, after he was arrested. Thus, there was something backing up
Yes. First off, Edgeworth's word crime isn't overlooked; he is investigated for it, as stated in that case. Remember how the mounting pressure is one of the reasons why he chooses to resign? Second, while it was established that Edgeworth presented fake evidence in court, no one had any proof that he was entirely unwitting. In the case of the diary page, there really wasn't much of a way for Phoenix to prove he didn't forge it. The only people able to verify that he was only hired the day before and thus wouldn't have had time to prepare it are Phoenix himself, Zak, and Kristoph. Obviously a hand in its forgery like Klavier did regarding Phoenix and Zak's words would be discounted, because they'd have reason to lie. Kristoph, as we find out, wouldn't help because he ''wanted'' to get Phoenix disbarred. And while Trucy could say about how she was given the diary page, it's probable her word would be dismissed because of her age and because the defendant's her father, giving her also a reason to lie. Keep in mind that Phoenix apparently is able to re-apply to get his badge back after it was proven that he was tricked into using the false evidence.
page.
* Something that has bugged me the whole inheriting of Magnifi Gramarye's rights to his magic tricks. I get that Maginfi intended to give the rights to Zak after all, which is why he had Zak come in first before Valant. Now the thing that bugs me: if If Zak performed the correct action (which is to shoot the clown in the head), what happens if Valant did the same thing Zak does? Does he inherit half of the rights? Or does Maginfi be a jerk and say that "Only Zak gets them.."



** Valant was screwed either way simply due to the fact that Zak came first. Even if he ''had'' gotten the chance to do Magnifi's "test", it wouldn't have mattered; Magnifi being a jerk and saying "Only Zak gets them" is basically what happened anyway, if I'm remembering it right. And if Zak had done it "wrong," then Magnifi's ''dead'' and it doesn't matter anyway.



*** Except if the police were competent in the slightest (even by Ace Attorney standards), they would arrest Drew Misham and search his studio after he confessed to forgery. I never said ''Phoenix'' should have checked the handwriting. And the police wouldn't need to see through the envelope with an X-ray machine if they just... opened it. And since Drew takes his requests by mail, there's no way Phoenix could have planted the letter.



* After recently replaying case 1 I have to say that Phoenix's case for his innocence doesn't point towards Kristoph nor any less toward himself, and the only reason he gets off is because it's Winston prosecuting. As Phoenix himself said to Apollo, don't think there's only one way of interpreting the evidence. Let's assume that Phoenix is guilty:
** To start off, Phoenix blatantly admits to a crime and this is completely overlooked. Either the trump card is fake, making the evidence a forgery, or it's real, and Phoenix admitted to removing said card from the scene and giving it to his daughter. Real or fake, Phoenix talks about said fifth ace both as if it's a fake (only the REAL killer who took the card from the scene would know it's a fake) and as if it's real (I took the card and gave it to my daughter)

to:

* After recently replaying case 1 I have to say that Phoenix's case for his innocence doesn't point towards Kristoph nor any less toward himself, and the only reason he gets off is because it's Winston prosecuting. As Phoenix himself said to Apollo, don't think there's only one way of interpreting the evidence. Let's assume that Phoenix is guilty:
** To start off,
Phoenix blatantly admits to a crime and this is completely overlooked. Either the trump card is fake, making the evidence a forgery, or it's real, and Phoenix admitted to removing said card from the scene and giving it to his daughter. Real or fake, Phoenix talks about said fifth ace both as if it's a fake (only the REAL killer who took the card from the scene would know it's a fake) and as if it's real (I took the card and gave it to my daughter)



** Second, let's look at Kristoph's knowledge that he shouldn't have, each of which could be explained. Phoenix claims that Kristoph couldn't have seen Shadi's bald head because of the moved cupboard, but AFTER the killer was done the cupboard was moved BACK, meaning he could have seen Shadi's bald head until Phoenix came in and placed the hat on Shadi's head. And if Kristoph was watching through the window it would explain why he mixed up what color deck they were using.
*** The assumption is that Phoenix walked into the room immediately after the real killer left. If you think about it'd make sense. Kristoph had the length of a standard generic "I need the cops here" call to the police (remember that Phoenix's call was apparently vague and short enough for people to mistakenly assume he was calling to report the murder, rather the Olga's assault) to do everything at the scene, which is something like a few minutes, tops. I'd be surprised if Phoenix hadn't walked into the room literally the second after the cupboard had been moved back into place. Also, this conflicts with what Kristoph was saying anyway, as he said he saw Phoenix there holding the bottle.
** Lastly, let's look at Phoenix's movements. First of all, he has a motive, in that some 'random' guy came in to defame him and ruin his reputation with a planted card. Now maybe at first Phoenix was concerned about Olga and called the cops for her sake, but perhaps then he got murderously angry after that and went through the secret tunnel to attack Shadi, who wouldn't have seen it coming. Again, this ties in with where Kristoph supposedly was. Phoenix leaves the room to call the police, then shortly afterwards someone goes through the tunnel and kills Shadi, then Phoenix comes back down, making it wholly possible for Phoenix to have done the deed. Based on the way you look at it, Phoenix doesn't look any less guilty than Kristoph does and, as said above, it's only because he wasn't dealing with a powerhouse prosecutor like Von Karma or Edgeworth that he got away with such a flimsy case.
*** The entire issue with the bottles being swapped sort of nullifies this though, does it not? Phoenix wouldn't purposefully swap the bottle for one with his own incriminating prints on it, and especially not when he already knows that the card is inside the real weapon (which could be later used as proof that the bottles were swapped). Even if he, for some reason, decided to do that, he would've taken the card out first.



** In my head-canon, just because it had a picture of his daughter. Emotional value, nothing more. Plus Shadi had already proved to

to:

** In my head-canon, just because it had a picture of his daughter. Emotional value, nothing more. Plus Shadi had already proved to



** He was wearing a hat? Marilyn Monroe and Christopher Reeve as Clark Kent also prove that if you can completely change your composure, pulling off a disguise with very little in the way of an actual ''disguise'' is completely doable.
** But any composure change would have been nullified by the fact that he was dead when the police arrived.
** It's been 7 years. He's lost his hair, grown a beard, no doubt has several more wrinkles, and isn't wearing his rather distinctive magician's outfit. That last being a big point, too, I'd say: As Zak Gramarye, he was a 6'+ tall man in a pink silk hat and cape...it's really likely that that nobody would have recognised him out of costume even when he wasn't deliberately presenting himself as a different person, who was 7 years older and balder than when last seen.
** On a related note, given that Zak was the defendant in an earlier case, the police ''had'' to have taken his fingerprints for their records--if they had cross-checked "Shadi Smiths's" fingerprints, they would have been able to identify him instantly.
* I'm surprised that such a blatant contradiction hasn't come up yet. So, Zak decides to not hire Kristoph. Why? Because he's able to see his "true nature" through poker, or at least during the game. Fair enough, considering all the rest I'm supposed to buy in Apollo Justice, that's pretty dang logical. Yet, when Zak plays Phoenix years later, after Phoenix has been disbarred and shamed because of the sole fact that Zak wouldn't even bother to TELL Phoenix that he had the last page of Magnifi's diary, what does he do? HE CHEATS. So, what was that you were saying about "true nature" Zak, you hypocrite?
** Yeah, Zak is a jerk, we know it...but to be fair, he didn't actually cheat the game, he put up a situation in which the outcome out the game wasn't that he would win, but to make it look as if Phoenix was the one that had cheated, which would ruin his reputation, and put him out of a job and wouldn't have any money to keep raising his adopted daughter...that was much worse than hypocrisy.
*** The MASON System shows Phoenix and Zak to be fairly good buddies tells me that it's probably a case of UnfortunateImplications that the writers didn't fully think through... But those are still some pretty damn unfortunate implications.
*** The MASON system probably used that appearance of Zak as a vehicle to express Phoenix's theories about things relating to his wife, as well as allowing Phoenix to [[NeverSpeakIllOfTheDead take the High Road]]. Phoenix probably got back at Zak by forging his "confession" to Valant.
*** Zak was a magician and trying to pull a trick on Phoenix on general principle. He probably didn't even plan to tell anyone that he beat Phoenix since he was planning to go back into hiding. Violently assaulting his probably-out-of-the-loop "assistant" when the trick failed in this case still means that he's a complete jerk.
** Think about this for a moment. Obviously, it could never have been Zak's intention to ruin Phoenix's reputation, as that would be worse than hypocrisy, as aforementioned. So, Zak must have played the trick on Phoenix because he knew that Spark was close to finding Drew Misham (he shadowed Spark for seven years, he probably would have dropped hints for Spark to come to this conclusion). I think the card game served as somewhat a microcosm for Phoenix's last trial, for he was in possession of forged evidence he didn't know existed in both situations. It was never Zak's intention to stomp on Phoenix, just to cryptically let him know that they were close to zeroing in on the person who ordered the forgery. Of course, we'll never know what Zak really intended, cause he's dead.
** It might have been a prank that he would have told no one else about. It might have been a challenge ("Well, Mr. Wright, can you figure out how this happened?") It might have been a rather strange way to tell Phoenix to get up off his sorry butt and get back in the lawyering business. It might have been a way to "punish" Phoenix for using Trucy's Perceive.[[note]]the real reason he has a perfect win record at poker, not his bluffing skills[[/note]] Who knows?

to:

** He was wearing a hat? Marilyn Monroe and Christopher Reeve as Clark Kent also prove that if you can completely change your composure, pulling off a disguise with very little in the way of an actual ''disguise'' is completely doable.
** But any composure change would have been nullified by the fact that he was dead when the police arrived.
** It's been 7 years. He's lost his hair, grown a beard, no doubt has several more wrinkles, and isn't wearing his rather distinctive magician's outfit. That last being a big point, too, I'd say: As Zak Gramarye, he was a 6'+ tall man in a pink silk hat and cape...it's really likely that that nobody would have recognised him out of costume even when he wasn't deliberately presenting himself as a different person, who was 7 years older and balder than when last seen.
** On a related note, given that Zak was the defendant in an earlier case, the police ''had'' to have taken his fingerprints for their records--if they had cross-checked "Shadi Smiths's" fingerprints, they would have been able to identify him instantly.
seen.
* I'm surprised that such a blatant contradiction hasn't come up yet. So, Zak decides to not hire Kristoph. Why? Because he's able to see his "true nature" through poker, or at least during the game. Fair enough, considering all the rest I'm supposed to buy in Apollo Justice, that's pretty dang logical. enough. Yet, when Zak plays Phoenix years later, after Phoenix has been disbarred and shamed because of the sole fact that Zak wouldn't even bother to TELL Phoenix that he had the last page of Magnifi's diary, what does he do? HE CHEATS. So, what was that you were saying about "true nature" Zak, you hypocrite?
Zak?
** Yeah, What does one have to do with the other? Regardless of whether Zak is a jerk, we know it...but cheater or not, is not he allowed to pick and choose who he considers to be fair, he didn't actually cheat the game, he put up a situation in which the outcome out the game wasn't that he would win, but to make it look as if Phoenix was the one that had cheated, which would ruin his reputation, and put him out of a job and wouldn't have any money to keep raising his adopted daughter...that was much worse than hypocrisy.
*** The MASON System shows Phoenix and Zak to be fairly good buddies tells me that it's probably a case of UnfortunateImplications that the writers didn't fully think through... But those are still some pretty damn unfortunate implications.
*** The MASON system probably used that appearance of Zak as a vehicle to express Phoenix's theories about things relating to his wife, as well as allowing Phoenix to [[NeverSpeakIllOfTheDead take the High Road]]. Phoenix probably got back at Zak by forging his "confession" to Valant.
*** Zak was a magician and trying to pull a trick on Phoenix on general principle. He probably didn't even plan to tell anyone that he beat Phoenix since he was planning to go back into hiding. Violently assaulting his probably-out-of-the-loop "assistant" when the trick failed in this case still means that he's a complete jerk.
** Think about this for a moment. Obviously, it could never have been Zak's intention to ruin Phoenix's reputation, as that would be worse than hypocrisy, as aforementioned. So, Zak must have played the trick on Phoenix because he knew that Spark was close to finding Drew Misham (he shadowed Spark for seven years, he probably would have dropped hints for Spark to come to this conclusion). I think the card game served as somewhat a microcosm for Phoenix's last trial, for he was in possession of forged evidence he didn't know existed in both situations. It was never Zak's intention to stomp on Phoenix, just to cryptically let him know that they were close to zeroing in on the person who ordered the forgery. Of course, we'll never know what Zak really intended, cause he's dead.
** It might have been a prank that he would have told no one else about. It might have been a challenge ("Well, Mr. Wright, can you figure out how this happened?") It might have been a rather strange way to tell Phoenix to get up off his sorry butt and get back in the lawyering business. It might have been a way to "punish" Phoenix for using Trucy's Perceive.[[note]]the real reason he has a perfect win record at poker, not his bluffing skills[[/note]] Who knows?
reputable lawyer?



*** This isn't the point. The bracelet doesn't magically know when to shut of its functions when Apollo doesn't need it to react. The fact is that it should have reacted even still. And there wouldn't be a reason for Apollo to just ignore it if it happened either since he doesn't yet know what the deal is with his bracelet, so it can't be passed of with "it did react but it was ignored since it wasn't important".
*** Apollo's bracelet couldn't possibly have a blanket reaction to all tension or physiological movements in everyone he interacts with though. If that was true, the thing would be reacting literally all the time, 24/7. The bracelet only reacting to minute subconscious twitches and habits is the only way to explain why Apollo can still live life normally even with a bracelet strapped to his wrist that tightens in response to tension and twitching (just imagine him going to, say, a football match, or some such, the bracelet would turn into a torture device). This doesn't really fit in line with pseudo-science explanation behind how the bracelet works, but then again, the explanation hardly makes sense in the first place. [[HandWave It was basically just a way for them to avoid calling the bracelet magic.]]
* Part of the evidence in the first case here was that Phoenix's fingerprints were on the bottle. And they were upside down so he couldn't have just been handling it normally. But my question is, when you're holding the neck of the bottle, how exactly would you be holding it that it looks upside down?
** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0yNiIm0FUo The opening video for the case]] shows exactly how the bottle was held, but I'll explain anyway. Usually when one holds a bottle by the neck, the bottle is right-side up and is held with the index finger closest to the cork (pointing upwards) and the pinky closest to the base (pointing downwards). Phoenix grabbed the neck of a bottle that was below him, so he held it the opposite way: his index finger closest to the base (pointing down) and his pinky was closest to the cork (pointing up), which would create the exact same pattern of fingerprints as if he was holding it upside-down.
* During 4-1, why didn't Kristoph simply tell everyone that he'd seen "Shadi Smith's" bald head when he'd tipped his hat as they passed by after Gavin had left the club? This would have explained how he knew he was bald, without putting him AT the scene...

to:

*** This isn't the point. The bracelet doesn't magically know when to shut of its functions when Apollo doesn't need it to react. The fact is that it should have reacted even still. And there wouldn't be a reason for Apollo to just ignore it if it happened either since he doesn't yet know what the deal is with his bracelet, so it can't be passed of with "it did react but it was ignored since it wasn't important".
*** Apollo's bracelet couldn't possibly have a blanket reaction to all tension or physiological movements in everyone he interacts with though. If that was true, the thing would be reacting literally all the time, 24/7. The bracelet only reacting to minute subconscious twitches and habits is the only way to explain why Apollo can still live life normally even with a bracelet strapped to his wrist that tightens in response to tension and twitching (just imagine him going to, say, a football match, or some such, the bracelet would turn into a torture device). This doesn't really fit in line with pseudo-science explanation behind how the bracelet works, but then again, the explanation hardly makes sense in the first place. [[HandWave It was basically just a way for them to avoid calling the bracelet magic.]]
* Part of the evidence in the first case here was that Phoenix's fingerprints were on the bottle. And they were upside down so he couldn't have just been handling it normally. But my question is, when you're holding the neck of the bottle, how exactly would you be holding it that it looks upside down?
** [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0yNiIm0FUo The opening video for the case]] shows exactly how the bottle was held, but I'll explain anyway. Usually when one holds a bottle by the neck, the bottle is right-side up and is held with the index finger closest to the cork (pointing upwards) and the pinky closest to the base (pointing downwards). Phoenix grabbed the neck of a bottle that was below him, so he held it the opposite way: his index finger closest to the base (pointing down) and his pinky was closest to the cork (pointing up), which would create the exact same pattern of fingerprints as if he was holding it upside-down.
* During 4-1, why
Why didn't Kristoph simply tell everyone that he'd seen "Shadi Smith's" bald head when he'd tipped his hat as they passed by after Gavin had left the club? This would have explained how he knew he was bald, without putting him AT the scene...scene.



** Once he had already been caught, though, why not point it out again? It wouldn't be difficult to reveal that the evidence had been forged, and that way, he could potentially have ruined Apollo's law career. We've seen already that he's not above doing such a thing as he did that exact thing to Phoenix, simply because Phoenix had replaced Kristoph in the Enigmar trial.
*** Given the KangarooCourt nature of this series, he'd most likely fall into IgnoredExpert territory if he did, especially considering he was now a convicted murderer (from which smear campaigns against his accusers wouldn't exactly be unexpected).
*** He wasn't a convicted murderer ''at the time'', though. ''This'' is the case that got Kristoph a reservation at the Alcatraz Hilton.
** Phoenix specifically says to Kristoph that only someone who was at the crime scene at the time in question would be able to prove what he is presenting as fabrication. To say it's fake is also to implicate yourself, so Kristoph had to shut himself up.
-->'''Kristoph''': The court can't accept this evidence! It's a fraud! \\
'''Phoenix''': A fraud? How can you be so sure? \\
'''Kristoph''': Wh-What...? \\
'''Phoenix''': I would think the only person who could claim it was a fraud would be the one who took the real card from the crime scene... The real killer!
** I personally think Kristoph could have stated the ace was a forgery ''and'' not incriminate himself had he used a different tone. I don't think it was his claim of the ace being forged what pinned him as the murderer, but how he reacted. Something like merely expressing doubt about such a convenient piece of evidence showing up (Considering how Phoenix lost his badge with a similarly oh-so-convincing piece of evidence) and asking whose fingerprints were on it (Since Kristoph does not wear gloves) may have painted him in a more positive light. But he didn't do that.

to:

** Once he had already been caught, though, why not point it out again? It wouldn't be difficult to reveal that the evidence had been forged, and that way, he could potentially have ruined Apollo's law career. We've seen already that he's not above doing such a thing as he did that exact thing to Phoenix, simply because again?
**
Phoenix had replaced Kristoph in basically already acknowledged that the Enigmar trial.
*** Given the KangarooCourt nature of this series, he'd most likely fall into IgnoredExpert territory if he did, especially considering he was now a convicted murderer (from which smear campaigns against his accusers wouldn't exactly be unexpected).
*** He
fifth ace wasn't a convicted murderer ''at the time'', though. ''This'' is the case real evidence; he explains that got Kristoph a reservation at the Alcatraz Hilton.
** Phoenix specifically says to Kristoph that
it was presented only someone who was at as a ''reason'' why the crime scene at the time in question would be able to prove what he is presenting as fabrication. To say it's fake is also to implicate yourself, so Kristoph killer had to shut himself up.
-->'''Kristoph''': The court can't accept this evidence!
swap out a card. It's a fraud! \\
'''Phoenix''': A fraud? How can you be so sure? \\
'''Kristoph''': Wh-What...? \\
'''Phoenix''': I would think
wonder why Apollo still gets upset about it after the only person who could claim it was a fraud would be the one who took the real card from the crime scene... The real killer!
** I personally think Kristoph could have stated the ace was a forgery ''and''
trial, in all honesty. It's not incriminate himself had he used a much different tone. I don't think it was his claim of from the ace being forged what pinned him as bottle of ear medicine from Case 3-3 or the murderer, but how he reacted. Something like merely expressing doubt about such a convenient piece of evidence showing up (Considering how Phoenix lost his badge with a similarly oh-so-convincing piece of evidence) and asking whose fingerprints were on it (Since Kristoph does not wear gloves) may have painted him in a more positive light. But he didn't do that.detention center photograph from Case 2-2.



* Why didn't the bailiffs in the lobby do anything when the lawyer began physically attacking his client? And no, the excuse that it was too insignificant a punch isn't gonna work. Phoenix distinctly says that Apollo's punch was a ''uppercut''. And the excuse that they didn't notice can't really work either. Apollo was shouting at him in an argument then ''yelled in rage'' before slamming his fist into his chin, how would they not notice what was going on?
** These are probably the same bailiffs who ignored a defense attorney being struck on the head with a fire extinguisher, and they're also probably related to the security guard who ignored a suspect's confession to instigated suicide and murder by hitman. In other words: they're just part of the background.
* Unless I'm missing something here, why did Phoenix dispose of the five of hearts card inside the bottle? Everyone brings up how strange that was for him to do, and Phoenix vaguely tells everyone that he had a reason for doing something random like that, but doesn't say what it was. As it turns out, him doing that went on to act as proof that the bottles were swapped. But, um, is Phoenix a psychic now? Because he disposed of the card in the bottle before the final hand of the poker game, which is before there was any indication that a murder was gonna take place at all, let alone that it would've targeted Shadi while he wasn't in the room, and let alone that they'd have used a bottle, and let alone that they'd then swap the bottles around. Phoenix being prone to the IndyPloy is one thing, but he had no reason at that point even execute an IndyPloy ''at all.'' Unless he seriously foretold that there was a need to do some random action to foul some random murder plot just by finding a playing card in his pocket, and then by pure luck did the very thing that was needed to do just that, which would be beyond astronomical levels and into ''Andromedan'' levels of ridiculous.

to:

* Why didn't the bailiffs in the lobby do anything when the lawyer began physically attacking his client? And no, client?
** There's nothing saying they didn't, keeping in mind
the excuse that it was too insignificant a punch isn't gonna work. visual limiations of the medium. All Apollo gave Phoenix distinctly says was one uppercut; the bailiffs could've stepped up to interfere before realizing that Apollo's punch the altercation was a ''uppercut''. And the excuse that they basically over, especially since Phoenix didn't notice can't really work either. Apollo was shouting at him in an argument then ''yelled in rage'' before slamming his fist into his chin, how would they not notice what was going on?
** These are probably the same bailiffs who ignored a defense attorney being struck on the head with a fire extinguisher, and they're also probably related
appear to the security guard who ignored a suspect's confession to instigated suicide and murder by hitman. In other words: they're just part of the background.
hold it against him.
* Unless I'm missing something here, why Why did Phoenix dispose of the five of hearts card inside the bottle? Everyone brings up how strange that was for him to do, and Phoenix vaguely tells everyone that he had a reason for doing something random like that, but doesn't say what it was. As it turns out, him doing that went on to act as proof that the bottles were swapped. But, um, is Phoenix a psychic now? Because he disposed of the card in the bottle before the final hand of the poker game, which is before there was any indication that a murder was gonna take place at all, let alone that it would've targeted Shadi while he wasn't in the room, and let alone that they'd have used a bottle, and let alone that they'd then swap the bottles around. Phoenix being prone to the IndyPloy is one thing, but he had no reason at that point even execute an IndyPloy ''at all.'' Unless he seriously foretold that there was a need to do some random action to foul some random murder plot just by finding a playing card in his pocket, and then by pure luck did the very thing that was needed to do just that, which would be beyond astronomical levels and into ''Andromedan'' levels of ridiculous.was.



*** Makes sense, but even if Drew usually picked the cup up with the same hand, he'd still have to put his mouth on that exact spot. Yes, Vera probably wouldn't have to have (theoretically) put atroquinine on the ''whole'' rim, but still a bit more on whichever side she thinks he'd drink out of.
* In 4-4, Klavier freaks out when he realizes that Vera was the one who forged the evidence in Nick's last case. Okay. Understandable. But given how, in that case, Valant was Klavier's main witness, and a good chunk of what triggered Klavier's freak out was the fact that Vera said the diary page was related to the Grammaryes, shouldn't Klavier have felt uncomfortable working with Valant in 4-3? Now, granted, it's been a little while since I've played 4-4, so I don't remember ''exactly'' how the scene went, but... at the very least, why didn't they seem to recognize each other?

to:

*** Makes sense, but even if Drew usually picked the cup up with the same hand, he'd still have to put his mouth on that exact spot. Yes, Vera probably wouldn't have to have (theoretically) put atroquinine on the ''whole'' rim, but still a bit more on whichever side she thinks he'd drink out of.
* In 4-4, Klavier freaks out when he realizes that Vera was the one who forged the evidence in Nick's last case. Okay. Understandable. But given how, in that case, Valant was Klavier's main witness, and a good chunk of what triggered Klavier's freak out was the fact that Vera said the diary page was related to the Grammaryes, shouldn't Klavier have felt uncomfortable working with Valant in 4-3? Now, granted, it's been a little while since I've played 4-4, so I don't remember ''exactly'' how the scene went, but... at the very least, why didn't they seem to recognize each other?4-3?



* In 4-4, which is just as full of this as 3-5, how did Kristoph Gavin know so much about the case? He was in solitary confinement, and even though he does get some news from the outside world, Spark Brushel said (or at least implied) several times that nobody had taken Drew Misham's death to press yet. I know his little brother is the prosecutor, but 1) the recess wasn't long enough for Klavier to be able to brief Kristoph about the case, and 2) based on Klavier's behavior during the first part of the trial and early on in the second, it doesn't seem like he'd be particularly trusting of his dear brother. The fact itself that he knew so much about the case when he testified should have been proof enough to point the finger of justice at him.
** Well, the game does imply that Kristoph may not be completely normal. I mean, he's been stalking everyone from the time of that case. Even Zak, whom no one could find. Even when he was in jail, everyone felt as though Kristoph had their eyes on him or her.
*** He didn't stalk Zak because he couldn't find him. He was keeping tabs on Brushel, however, and was heavily implied to have found Zak when the magician got in touch with Brushel to notarize the forms he was leaving with Phoenix. Though one wonders why the cops didn't confiscate and read those forms when Phoenix was arrested, revealing Shadi's identity, but that's another problem altogether.

to:

* In 4-4, which is just as full of this as 3-5, how How did Kristoph Gavin know so much about the case? He was in solitary confinement, and even though he does get some news from the outside world, Spark Brushel said (or at least implied) several times that nobody had taken Drew Misham's death to press yet. I know his little brother is the prosecutor, but 1) the recess wasn't long enough for Klavier to be able to brief Kristoph about the case, and 2) based on Klavier's behavior during the first part of the trial and early on in the second, it doesn't seem like he'd be particularly trusting of his dear brother. The fact itself that he knew so much about the case when he testified should have been proof enough to point the finger of justice at him.\n** Well, the game does imply that Kristoph may not be completely normal. I mean, he's been stalking everyone from the time of that case. Even Zak, whom no one could find. Even when he was in jail, everyone felt as though Kristoph had their eyes on him or her.\n*** He didn't stalk Zak because he couldn't find him. He was keeping tabs on Brushel, however, and was heavily implied to have found Zak when the magician got in touch with Brushel to notarize the forms he was leaving with Phoenix. Though one wonders why the cops didn't confiscate and read those forms when Phoenix was arrested, revealing Shadi's identity, but that's another problem altogether.



*** In the States, it's the difference between only being able to prove [[UsefulNotes/ThreeDegreesOfMurder Second-Degree Murder]] and being able to prove '''First'''-Degree Murder.
** There is a lot about Kristoph that raises all manner of questions. The fourth case seems to imply that there is more to Kristoph that meets the eye, from his conspiracy to have Phoenix disbarred over the imagined sleight against him, to the black Psyche-Locks, the beautifully furnished prison cell, the scar on the back of his hand that deforms into a hideous devil face, the evil, soulless eyes hidden behind his menacing glasses, etc. The game seems to suggest that Kristoph is the most absolutely evil thing ever to enter a courtroom since Dahlia Hawthorne, and leaves a lot of the suspense and mystery surrounding him intact at the end of it. I would actually be very surprised if this is the last we hear of Kristoph.
** A possible explanation comes from the revelation of what the black Psyche-Locks are. In ''Duel Destinies'', you find out Black Psyche-Locks only appear when a person's lie is so heavily veiled by their psyche that they don't even realize they're lying; in other words, repressed memories or experiences. While it ultimately isn't relevant to the case, it reveals that there's some deep-seeded psychological issues and past experiences that have driven Kristoph to become so bitter and spiteful.



*** But then couldn't the person who read it testify in court? Sure, if he gets that many letters he may have forgotten what that particular yellow-clad letter said, but the idea doesn't seem to cross anybody's mind.
*** That requires the officer remembering the contents of the letter. It wasn't until the final trial day that ''any'' kind of connection between that letter and that case was proven. Not knowing the context behind it, the letter from Drew Misham looks like just a random transaction.
*** An even easier solution would be to present the video Phoenix recorded, which includes his atroquinine test performed in the cell. Unfortunately, Phoenix is busy managing the case, and the idea to give Apollo the video doesn't even cross his mind (but faking the letter himself is the bright idea he does go through with, heh). Kristoph says as much, mentioning that Apollo's story is based on a man's "claim to have taken a video".
* What's the deal with Kristoph's black Psyche-Locks? Are they ever broken? When I played through 4-4 and finished the MASON System part, I realized I never had a chance to break them. Was I supposed to? I mean, these things are new and were never in the Phoenix arc, and yet here they are and are never mentioned again.
** The whole point of the black Psyche-Locks is that they ''can't'' be broken, or at least not by Phoenix. What everyone seems to forget is the question that ''produced'' said Psyche-Locks was something to the extent of: "Why did you kill Shadi Smith?" While Phoenix is unable to get the answer out of Kristoph during the investigation, Apollo is able to figure it out during the trial, thanks partially to his Perceive ability. It was meant to further the idea of "passing the torch" in that even with his Magatama, Phoenix could never beat Kristoph on his own. Instead, it required Apollo and his bracelet. Of course, the impact is lessened when you realize Phoenix was TheChessmaster and arguably is the one who caught Kristoph anyway.
*** Any discussion of why the psyche-locks are a different color is going to have to involve some speculation. In any case, the game doesn't even let you enter an unlock sequence and the person in question arguably guards his secrets more tightly than any other character, so the most common interpretation can be supported.
** The whole Psyche-Lock shtick is really too powerful for its own good- the players have to come up with justifications for its shortcomings and contradictions. I just think that the Magatama isn't powerful enough to see past [[Literature/NineteenEightyFour doublethink]] or really dark, hidden secrets like Kristoph's. I think that the bracelet is meant to be an improvement on this shaky device, just like the Jurist System. Again, with the whole "passing on the torch" idea, it seems plausible that Phoenix would have wholeheartedly trusted Apollo's abilities over his own methods.
** Similarly, in Case 3-5, Larry and Iris have five red psyche-locks regarding what he saw at Dusky Bridge and how she really knows Phoenix's name, respectively, which are never broken during gameplay, but during the trial. It's possible that the Magatama only lets Phoenix know whether someone is keeping a secret and how close he is to figuring it out; like in cross-examinations, he has to produce the evidence and make the connections necessary to find the truth.

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*** But then couldn't the person who read it testify in court? Sure, if he gets that many letters he may have forgotten what that particular yellow-clad letter said, but the idea doesn't seem to cross anybody's mind.
*** That requires the officer remembering the contents of the letter. It wasn't until the final trial day that ''any'' kind of connection between that letter and that case was proven. Not knowing the context behind it, the letter from Drew Misham looks like just a random transaction.
*** An even easier solution would be to present the video Phoenix recorded, which includes his atroquinine test performed in the cell. Unfortunately, Phoenix is busy managing the case, and the idea to give Apollo the video doesn't even cross his mind (but faking the letter himself is the bright idea he does go through with, heh). Kristoph says as much, mentioning that Apollo's story is based on a man's "claim to have taken a video".
* What's the deal with Kristoph's black Psyche-Locks? Are they ever broken? When I played through 4-4 and finished the MASON System part, I realized I never had a chance to break them. Was I supposed to? I mean, these things are new and were never in the Phoenix arc, and yet here they are and are never mentioned again.
** The whole point of the black Psyche-Locks is that they ''can't'' be broken, or at least not by Phoenix. What everyone seems to forget is the question that ''produced'' said Psyche-Locks was something to the extent of: "Why did you kill Shadi Smith?" While Phoenix is unable to get the answer out of Kristoph during the investigation, Apollo is able to figure it out during the trial, thanks partially to his Perceive ability. It was meant to further the idea of "passing the torch" in that even with his Magatama, Phoenix could never beat Kristoph on his own. Instead, it required Apollo and his bracelet. Of course, the impact is lessened when you realize Phoenix was TheChessmaster and arguably is the one who caught Kristoph anyway.
*** Any discussion of why the psyche-locks are a different color is going to have to involve some speculation. In any case, the game doesn't even let you enter an unlock sequence and the person in question arguably guards his secrets more tightly than any other character, so the most common interpretation can be supported.
** The whole Psyche-Lock shtick is really too powerful for its own good- the players have to come up with justifications for its shortcomings and contradictions. I just think that the Magatama isn't powerful enough to see past [[Literature/NineteenEightyFour doublethink]] or really dark, hidden secrets like Kristoph's. I think that the bracelet is meant to be an improvement on this shaky device, just like the Jurist System. Again, with the whole "passing on the torch" idea, it seems plausible that Phoenix would have wholeheartedly trusted Apollo's abilities over his own methods.
** Similarly, in Case 3-5, Larry and Iris have five red psyche-locks regarding what he saw at Dusky Bridge and how she really knows Phoenix's name, respectively, which are never broken during gameplay, but during the trial. It's possible that the Magatama only lets Phoenix know whether someone is keeping a secret and how close he is to figuring it out; like in cross-examinations, he has to produce the evidence and make the connections necessary to find the truth.
broken?



*** So, presumably, if Pheonix had the Magatama during "Turnabout Goodbyes", Edgeworth could've had '''Black Locks''' when asked about DL-6? And possibly Ema about SL-9 during "Rise From The Ashes"?



* Why does Kristoph's hair become normal again once he starts laughing at the end of his Super Saiyan breakdown? Is it to show how creepy he is?
** Maybe it's just because he's a dandy to the end.



** He didn't. He wrote to Kristoph asking him to remove her 'magic charm'. He'd already sent the letter (the diary page) seven years ago, just with a different stamp than Kristoph intended.

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** He didn't. He wrote to Kristoph asking him to remove her Vera's 'magic charm'. He'd already sent the letter (the diary page) seven years ago, just with a different stamp than Kristoph intended.



* So Drew Misham's wife ended up leaving him because he was a StarvingArtist who couldn't sell a painting... and left Vera in ''his'' custody. Does this have to do with Japan's divorce laws favoring the father(or something along those lines), or did Mrs. Misham not care about raising her daughter? Not only is there the case of Morgan's husband getting custody of Dahlia and Iris(despite sending the latter to Hazakura Temple), but it reminds me of a similar situation in ''Manga/MuhyoAndRoji'', in which Nana's mother left her husband, leaving Nana in the custody of her washed-up photographer father.

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* So Drew Misham's wife ended up leaving him because he was a StarvingArtist who couldn't sell a painting... and left Vera in ''his'' custody. Does this have to do with Japan's divorce laws favoring the father(or something along those lines), or did Mrs. Misham not care about raising her daughter? Not only is there the case of Morgan's husband getting custody of Dahlia and Iris(despite sending the latter to Hazakura Temple), but it reminds me of a similar situation in ''Manga/MuhyoAndRoji'', in which Nana's mother left her husband, leaving Nana in the custody of her washed-up photographer father.daughter?



* When did Phoenix acquire the ability to transport evidence across space and time? In the last case of Apollo Justice,[[note]]when you have the ability to look in both the past and the present to see the evidence that Phoenix has collected,[[/note]] Phoenix presents evidence that he can't possibly have at the time he presents it, and draws conclusions based on knowledge he will have in the future. For example, the picture of Trucy's mother that you get from [[strike:Valant Grammarye]] Spark Brushel? You use it to break Zak's Psyche lock SIX MONTHS EARILER! I should probably stress that you get the picture after Zak DIES! And then there's the whole thing with Vera. How does "seven years ago" Phoenix have any clue that the bottle on the desk could possibly be Vera's good luck charm? If it was in the present, I would be fine with it, but our Phoenix hasn't seen that bottle before in his life. Also, why does "seven years ago" Phoenix know to suggest Kristoph as Vera's secret client? He has no reason to suspect Kristoph at that time, not until the events seven years later, when he sees that bottle of nail polish in Kristoph's cell? It boggles the mind!
** In between the third and fourth games Phoenix received a ShoutOut from ''LightNovel/HaruhiSuzumiya''. This ShoutOut must have been of such potency that it allowed a sliver of Haruhi's reality warping power to pass into Phoenix. .....OK, I've got nothing.
** Phoenix has a few things going for him... one, he's a freaking badass. Two, he's become accustomed to weird crap happening around him. Three, a few of those things[[note]]like the nail polish[[/note]] could have been pieced together with the evidence at hand. In fact, I'd say that the only reason you HAVE to present the future one in that case is so so that you have to talk to Kristoph and see his bitchin' Black Psych-Locks.

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* When did Phoenix acquire the ability to transport evidence across space and time? In the last case of Apollo Justice,[[note]]when you have the ability to look in both the past and the present to see the evidence that Phoenix has collected,[[/note]] Phoenix presents evidence that he can't possibly have at the time he presents it, and draws conclusions based on knowledge he will have in the future. For example, the picture of Trucy's mother that you get from [[strike:Valant Grammarye]] Spark Brushel? You use it to break Zak's Psyche lock SIX MONTHS EARILER! I should probably stress that you get the picture after Zak DIES! And then there's the whole thing with Vera. How does "seven years ago" Phoenix have any clue that the bottle on the desk could possibly be Vera's good luck charm? If it was in the present, I would be fine with it, but our Phoenix hasn't seen that bottle before in his life. Also, why does "seven years ago" Phoenix know to suggest Kristoph as Vera's secret client? He has no reason to suspect Kristoph at that time, not until the events seven years later, when he sees that bottle of nail polish in Kristoph's cell? It boggles the mind!\n** In between the third and fourth games Phoenix received a ShoutOut from ''LightNovel/HaruhiSuzumiya''. This ShoutOut must have been of such potency that it allowed a sliver of Haruhi's reality warping power to pass into Phoenix. .....OK, I've got nothing.\n** Phoenix has a few things going for him... one, he's a freaking badass. Two, he's become accustomed to weird crap happening around him. Three, a few of those things[[note]]like the nail polish[[/note]] could have been pieced together with the evidence at hand. In fact, I'd say that the only reason you HAVE to present the future one in that case is so so that you have to talk to Kristoph and see his bitchin' Black Psych-Locks.



** It was probbably supposed to just be a simulation of Phoenix's logic as he investigated these things over several years. He's put these elements together in his mind; what you play isn't really what happened.
*** OK, so how did Phoenix learn what Zak would've said? And what would be the point to him using a "logic simulation", rather then it being a recording from the camera in the [=PaPa=] cap?
*** Simple enough: The jury doesn't have points in Spurious Logic.

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** It The MASON system was probbably supposed to just be a simulation of Phoenix's logic as he investigated these things over several years. He's put these elements together in his mind; what you play isn't really what happened.
*** OK, so how did Phoenix learn what Zak would've said? And what would be the point to him using a "logic simulation", rather then it being a recording from the camera in the [=PaPa=] cap?
*** Simple enough: The jury doesn't have points in Spurious Logic.
happened.



** Here's my theory. First off, with the nail polish, Phoenix knew Gavin before he talked to Vera, as he presumably saw him with that distinctive type of nail polish. Also, when you present the picture of Thalassa, you only talk about seeing a kid with bracelets who has a similar power to Trucy, which he could have done before talking to Zak. As for how Phoenix knew about Thalassa's first husband... Well, it's possible that Valant told him that. Long story short, any evidence we present that Phoenix shouldn't have he actually got elsewhere.
** The main problem with this big plot hole is that, from the jury's viewpoint (which was the whole reason that this "intermission" happened), Phoenix created the MASON, which was reproducing testimonies from different times regarding this one case, not unlike a very fancy and expensive videoplayer. Which means that, just like the bias on any other media presented as factual evidence in court, Phoenix could basically fabricate evidence based on his own uncreditable testimony. Wasn't him disbarred for this very reason?!
** Someone could have channeled Zak's spirit and Phoenix could break psychelocke right there and put it in the MASON system as Zak in the bar because he's too lazy to create a new area.
** This troper's take on the whole MASON mess is that Phoenix learned most of the relevant information for the case (specifically, the backstories of Troupe Gramarye and Misham family) from Spark Brushel after Kristoph got convicted and couldn't keep watch on either of them, and then used Brushel's (and probably Valant's) testimony to create the TimeyWimeyBall the Jurists had to solve.

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** Here's my theory. First off, with the nail polish, Phoenix knew could have known Gavin before he talked to Vera, as he presumably saw him with that distinctive type of nail polish. Also, when you present the picture of Thalassa, you only talk about seeing a kid with bracelets who has a similar power to Trucy, which he could have done before talking to Zak. As for how Phoenix knew about Thalassa's first husband... Well, it's possible that Valant told him that. Long story short, any evidence we present that Phoenix shouldn't have he actually got elsewhere.
** The main problem with this big plot hole is that, from the jury's viewpoint (which was the whole reason that this "intermission" happened), Phoenix created the MASON, which was reproducing testimonies from different times regarding this one case, not unlike a very fancy and expensive videoplayer. Which means that, just like the bias on any other media presented as factual evidence in court, Phoenix could basically fabricate evidence based on his own uncreditable testimony. Wasn't him disbarred for this very reason?!
** Someone could have channeled Zak's spirit and Phoenix could break psychelocke right there and put it in the MASON system as Zak in the bar because he's too lazy to create a new area.
** This troper's take on the whole MASON mess is that Phoenix learned most of the relevant information for the case (specifically, the backstories of Troupe Gramarye and Misham family) from Spark Brushel after Kristoph got convicted and couldn't keep watch on either of them, and then used Brushel's (and probably Valant's) testimony to create the TimeyWimeyBall the Jurists had to solve.
elsewhere.



* This isn't so much a beef with the games as it is with the above complaint. In Apollo Justice, with the MASON system, people complain that using Kristoph's nail-polish in the 'present' to break Vera's Psychlock in the 'past' doesn't make sense. It appears everyone has forgotten that it's more-or-less a simulation of Phoenix's investigation and a tool to figure out the logic behind the investigation. The nail-polish was most likely seen at Phoenix's disbarment and/or during his 'friendship' with Kristoph. The future, the evidence is collected in the cell to show why it's important, and the one that Phoenix used against Vera was hers. As for the photo and the truth about Apollo, that is more up to debate, but odds are that Phoenix just found a file photo of Thalassa. As for why he was carrying it about? Perhaps he knew of the performance rights after all (no one said that the inner monologues were strictly Phoenix's or his at all).
** Also, you can examine areas with the MASON system just as you can without it, and the bottle of nail polish is clearly visible on the table in Drew Studio. When you examine it, Drew spazzes and tells you not to touch it because it's Vera's and she will get very angry if you do. It doesn't take too much of a leap of faith to connect the "good luck charm" with the bottle of nail polish, even without knowing that Kristoph uses the same brand. And the problem of using Kristoph's bottle? An identical one is sitting right there on the table. Phoenix could've used Vera's own bottle of nail polish to break her psyche-lock when he did the investigating for real.
* The MASON system in Apollo Justice. Phoenix uses his magatama to crack people into talking and you lose some of your life energy when you screw up just like in the old days. I know that Phoenix says to think of this as a game, but it just makes no sense to have the LifeMeter system in place for this period since lost life doesn't transfer to Apollo once you play as him again plus nothing happens to Phoenix if you lose all your life energy during a psyche-lock.

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* This isn't so much a beef with the games as it is with the above complaint. In Apollo Justice, with the MASON system, people complain that using Kristoph's nail-polish in the 'present' to break Vera's Psychlock in the 'past' doesn't make sense. It appears everyone has forgotten that it's more-or-less a simulation of Phoenix's investigation and a tool to figure out the logic behind the investigation. The nail-polish was most likely seen at Phoenix's disbarment and/or during his 'friendship' with Kristoph. The future, the evidence is collected in the cell to show why it's important, and the one that Phoenix used against Vera was hers. As for the photo and the truth about Apollo, that is more up to debate, but odds are that Phoenix just found a file photo of Thalassa. As for why he was carrying it about? Perhaps he knew of the performance rights after all (no one said that the inner monologues were strictly Phoenix's or his at all).
** Also, you can examine areas with the MASON system just as you can without it, and the bottle of nail polish is clearly visible on the table in Drew Studio. When you examine it, Drew spazzes and tells you not to touch it because it's Vera's and she will get very angry if you do. It doesn't take too much of a leap of faith to connect the "good luck charm" with the bottle of nail polish, even without knowing that Kristoph uses the same brand. And the problem of using Kristoph's bottle? An identical one is sitting right there on the table. Phoenix could've used Vera's own bottle of nail polish to break her psyche-lock when he did the investigating for real.
* The MASON system in Apollo Justice.
Phoenix uses his magatama Magatama to crack people into talking and you lose some of your life energy when you screw up just like in the old days.games. I know that Phoenix says to think of this as a game, but it just makes no sense to have the LifeMeter system in place for this period since lost life doesn't transfer to Apollo once you play as him again plus nothing happens to Phoenix if you lose all your life energy during a psyche-lock.



* Why was Lamiroir considered an appropriate jurist in the final case? I mean, leaving aside that the defense attorney and his assistant are her children, which wasn't common knowledge, there's still the fact that she has very close ties to one of Apollo's previous cases and was very much sympathetic to him. Did no one besides Phoenix vet the jurists? Anyone else should have picked up on that bias in about three seconds. Even she was questioning whether she was qualified to serve!
** I'm more concerned that a foreign celebrity in our country for a tour was chosen for the jury. Doesn't seem right to recruit tourists and foreign visitors to serve jury duty.
*** It's shown that Lamiroir is part of Troupe Gramarye, and became Lamiroir in some bizarre circumstances. Since it's never explicitly stated where the Troupe were from originally, she could perfectly well be from whatever country this game is set (Japan, US, etc).
** Lamiroir herself asks to talk to Phoenix and says something like: "...it says in the Jurist handbook that "no jurists may be connected to the case". Phoenix replies by saying something like: "I've checked all your backgrounds. None of you were involved in the investigation or bring up of the case." This is what the ACTUAL American Jury system states. It doesn't matter if a jurist is connected to one of the lawyers or anything besides being involved in the ACTUAL INVESTIGATION. In other words, the only rule saying that a person can't be a jury member is if they were involved in the case on trial, not the lawyers or anything else.
** It's possible that Phoenix was able to prove that she was from the country the game is set in without revealing to members of the legal system that she's Apollo's mother.
** After all, "Thalassa Gramarye" is probably not listed as the birth mother of "Apollo Justice", so simply showing that Lamiroir is US/Japanese/Whatever citizen Thalassa Gramarye would be sufficient. Besides, he's bending the rules to get her to use the MASON system. Hardly the first time that something like this has happened.



*** This troper agrees with this theory, mostly because Zak seemed surprised when you mention that Thalassa had a son.



** She takes after her mom?

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** She takes after her mom?mom.



** Trucy does look a LOT like her mom. Which leads to the odd fact that Apollo looks a lot like her dad.
*** ''Very'' odd considering that her dad is ''not'' his dad...
*** In ''Spirit of Justice'', wee see that Apollo looks much more like his own dad than Trucy's dad. The very few similarities between Apollo and Zak is merely a coincidence. Strangers with no blood ties can look similar.



* At the end of Apollo Justice, Phoenix goes back to playing piano / cards. Question: ''why''? It is obvious that he misses life as an attorney, and life as a poker player doesn't seem terribly profitable even with Trucy's magic shows and Apollo's detective work on the side. Sure, there is the whole disbarred thing, but I rather doubt that would still be in effect when Apollo and Klavier proved Kristoph Gavin was behind it.
** I seem to remember reading an English-speaking player's comment/synopsis when the game first came out in Japan that mentioned Phoenix was going to try and get his badge back. Since this isn't mentioned in any other synopsis afterwards, I assumed whoever noted it must have made a mistake in translating it...but it seems a really strange mistake to make. Perhaps it was wishful thinking, or maybe just the logical assumption that Phoenix would retrieve his lawyer-hood. As to why....well, probably the same reason Phoenix was (arguably) given a completely altered personality in the AJ game -- the writers wanted the players to side with Apollo and not get too distracted by what Phoenix was up to.
** He said he'd go back to playing cards for a while, but when talking about his future he did mention that he'd "maybe take the Bar exam again".
*** His specific wording was "Now that I've got some time on my hands, maybe I'll take [piano] lessons. Or maybe I'll take the Bar Exam...again." And then he laughs at the apparent humor.
*** Phoenix's character has always been one where he wants to be able to protect those closest to him. He became a lawyer for that reason specifically. Right now, he doesn't have to be a lawyer to do that, so he may well not try to get his badge back as long as he can still protect Trucy without it.
*** Phoenix ''does'' recover his badge in a year or so (in time for Dual Destinies), but he doesn't have it in the chronologically earliest case. Given all that went into getting the Jurist System through, he might have just felt like taking his time. Also, he implies that it still took a while for all of the paperwork to go through, even with Chief Prosecutor Miles Edgeworth helping it along.
** In Case 4-1, Phoenix admits to forging a piece of decisive evidence. Does that sound like the work of a reputable attorney to you? On top of that, he himself even admits he doesn't belong behind the defense's desk anymore. But then again, we're talking about a guy who somehow became chair of the Jurist System as well.
*** He likely was saying that because it was his only real option. He couldn't have just said "Well somehow this mysterious piece of evidence landed in my lap and I used it," because nobody would believe him. It would be sort of like "The Boy who Cried Wolf," only it would make him sound whiny instead of a liar when the truth came out.
*** It's been a while since I played through 4-1, but IIRC, the forged evidence wasn't so much "decisive"; it was to trick Kristoph into saying that it was fake, since [[INeverSaidItWasPoison only the killer would know such a thing]]. Kind of like 2-2; Franziska enters a photograph that everyone knows is illegal, but its purpose wasn't to use as evidence, it was used to give the judge doubt.
*** In fact, it's very much like 3-3, at the end. Phoenix presented the ear medication as if it were decisive evidence; ''everyone'' knew he was bluffing, but Furio Tigre fell into the trap anyway because he didn't realize Phoenix's purpose: to get the real criminal to reveal something he shouldn't have known about.
** Looks like he did get his badge back, as [=GS5=] previews show that Phoenix is the player character again.

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* How did Mr. Letouse know that Lamiroir had been a witness to his killing? It's established on the second day that she witnessed it from the air vent, on the other side of thr room, and was only there for a second or two. How did he know she was there?

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* How did Mr. Letouse know that Lamiroir had been a witness to his killing? It's established on the second day that she witnessed it from the air vent, on the other side of thr the room, and was only there for a second or two. How did he know she was there?there?
* Why didn’t Daryan get around to removing the firecracker remnants from the crime scene before they were discovered? He had a full day to do so before the first court session where he was fingered by Lamiroir, and Ema didn’t come across them until the second trial day.
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** Some additional explanations: We don’t necessarily know that he wore the bracelet all the time growing up. It doesn’t pick up on every lie that someone tells. And given how easily he can brush off the bracelet’s reaction when it first happens during Olga Orly’s testimony, it’s safe to assume it hasn’t happened frequently enough for him to notice it before.

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** Some additional explanations: We don’t necessarily know that he wore the bracelet all the time growing up. It doesn’t pick up on every lie that someone tells. And given how easily he can brush off the bracelet’s reaction when it first happens during Olga Orly’s testimony, it’s safe to assume it it’s a subtle enough reactions and/or hasn’t happened frequently enough for him to notice it before.
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** Some additional explanations: We don’t necessarily know that he wore the bracelet all the time growing up. It doesn’t pick up on every lie that someone tells. And given how easily he can brush off the bracelet’s reaction when it first happens during Olga Orly’s testimony, it’s safe to assume it hasn’t happened frequently enough for him to notice it before.
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Headscratchers subpages are Spoilers Off pages.


*** I thought of it as ''[[ClosetGeek Edgeworth]]'' staying in contact with Phoenix. After all, how is an up-and-comming [[spoiler:Chief]] Prosecutor supposed to find time to watch the latest Samurai saga? Conversely, Master of Kurian though she is, how is ''Maya'' able to afford that sort of collection?

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*** I thought of it as ''[[ClosetGeek Edgeworth]]'' staying in contact with Phoenix. After all, how is an up-and-comming [[spoiler:Chief]] Chief Prosecutor supposed to find time to watch the latest Samurai saga? Conversely, Master of Kurian though she is, how is ''Maya'' able to afford that sort of collection?



*** It's basically confirmed that Phoenix stayed in contact with Edgeworth, at least, for the whole seven years [[spoiler:and occasionally visited him in Europe]] as of ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies''. That same game also suggests that Maya keeps in regular contact too, as she sends him a letter in the final case.

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*** It's basically confirmed that Phoenix stayed in contact with Edgeworth, at least, for the whole seven years [[spoiler:and and occasionally visited him in Europe]] Europe as of ''VisualNovel/PhoenixWrightAceAttorneyDualDestinies''. That same game also suggests that Maya keeps in regular contact too, as she sends him a letter in the final case.



*** As was told in ''Dual Destinies'', sometime after ''Investigations 2'', [[spoiler:Miles became the Chief Prosecutor. So, he could've helped Phoenix when he possibly learnt of the MASON system.]]
** I figured that Phoenix maintained contact with everyone but less than usual lest he accidentally leak information about his secret mission from Edgeworth. Phoenix is the only person Edgeworth could trust to keep quiet and do what needed to be done without too many questions, [[spoiler:as well as utilise his connections in England (Layton), to track down Athena Cykes to fix the legal system. They needed to clear Phoenix's name and find Athena to start the overhaul of the legal system. Phoenix was also able to move about freely compared to everyone else Edgeworth knows and have a ready excuse, which is really no more than an excuse since what disbarred lawyer needs to study other legal systems?]] It was probably complicated to maintain contact with Maya and Pearls due to their training, and unwise to contact Larry except when he was home. He may have maintained contact with Franziska, too, just because she would be an excellent connection to have, being part of Interpol as well as having her own connections in Europe.
*** The only issue here is that it's fairly unclear whether [=PLxAA=] is considered canon in the AA timeline, since there are lots of things that seem to contradict the AA timeline, so he may not canonically [[spoiler:know Layton at all, and also, Athena is stated as having been studying in Europe. Not specifically England, just a vague 'Europe', so Layton may not have had any idea that someone like Athena even existed. It seems more likely that Edgeworth found Athena while he was studying Europe's legal systems, since it was stated in Dual Destinies that it was something he did.]]

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*** As was told in ''Dual Destinies'', sometime after ''Investigations 2'', [[spoiler:Miles Miles became the Chief Prosecutor. So, he could've helped Phoenix when he possibly learnt of the MASON system.]]
system.
** I figured that Phoenix maintained contact with everyone but less than usual lest he accidentally leak information about his secret mission from Edgeworth. Phoenix is the only person Edgeworth could trust to keep quiet and do what needed to be done without too many questions, [[spoiler:as as well as utilise his connections in England (Layton), to track down Athena Cykes to fix the legal system. They needed to clear Phoenix's name and find Athena to start the overhaul of the legal system. Phoenix was also able to move about freely compared to everyone else Edgeworth knows and have a ready excuse, which is really no more than an excuse since what disbarred lawyer needs to study other legal systems?]] systems? It was probably complicated to maintain contact with Maya and Pearls due to their training, and unwise to contact Larry except when he was home. He may have maintained contact with Franziska, too, just because she would be an excellent connection to have, being part of Interpol as well as having her own connections in Europe.
*** The only issue here is that it's fairly unclear whether [=PLxAA=] is considered canon in the AA timeline, since there are lots of things that seem to contradict the AA timeline, so he may not canonically [[spoiler:know know Layton at all, and also, Athena is stated as having been studying in Europe. Not specifically England, just a vague 'Europe', so Layton may not have had any idea that someone like Athena even existed. It seems more likely that Edgeworth found Athena while he was studying Europe's legal systems, since it was stated in Dual Destinies that it was something he did.]]



** Answered in ''Spirit of Justice'': [[spoiler: No, but he didn't die on stage, either. Brushel was probably mistaken.]]

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** Answered in ''Spirit of Justice'': [[spoiler: No, but he didn't die on stage, either. Brushel was probably mistaken.]]



** ''Dual Destinies'' explains the black psyche locks: [[spoiler: Red locks are a secret the person is hiding intentionally, black locks are ones they've hidden deep inside their hearts and aren't meaning to conceal. Since Vera was consciously hiding info about the nail polish, naturally the locks would be red]].

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** ''Dual Destinies'' explains the black psyche locks: [[spoiler: Red locks are a secret the person is hiding intentionally, black locks are ones they've hidden deep inside their hearts and aren't meaning to conceal. Since Vera was consciously hiding info about the nail polish, naturally the locks would be red]].red.



** Keep in mind that the two situations weren't ''quite'' the same. Lana testified that the forged evidence was secretly used, and it's possible that Gant did the same, after he was arrested. Thus, there was something backing up Edgeworth's word that he was entirely unwitting. In the case of the diary page, there really wasn't much of a way for Phoenix to prove he didn't forge it. The only people able to verify that he was only hired the day before and thus wouldn't have had time to prepare it are Phoenix himself, Zak, and Kristoph. Obviously Phoenix and Zak's words would be discounted, because they'd have reason to lie. Kristoph, as we find out, wouldn't help because he ''wanted'' to get Phoenix disbarred. And while Trucy could say about how she was given the diary page, it's probable her word would be dismissed because of her age and because the defendant's her father, giving her also a reason to lie. Keep in mind that Phoenix apparently [[spoiler:is able to re-apply to get his badge back after it was proven that he was tricked into using the false evidence]].

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** Keep in mind that the two situations weren't ''quite'' the same. Lana testified that the forged evidence was secretly used, and it's possible that Gant did the same, after he was arrested. Thus, there was something backing up Edgeworth's word that he was entirely unwitting. In the case of the diary page, there really wasn't much of a way for Phoenix to prove he didn't forge it. The only people able to verify that he was only hired the day before and thus wouldn't have had time to prepare it are Phoenix himself, Zak, and Kristoph. Obviously Phoenix and Zak's words would be discounted, because they'd have reason to lie. Kristoph, as we find out, wouldn't help because he ''wanted'' to get Phoenix disbarred. And while Trucy could say about how she was given the diary page, it's probable her word would be dismissed because of her age and because the defendant's her father, giving her also a reason to lie. Keep in mind that Phoenix apparently [[spoiler:is is able to re-apply to get his badge back after it was proven that he was tricked into using the false evidence]].evidence.



** Plus, in ''Investigations 2'', doesn't [[spoiler:Frank Sawhit show up as accomplice, and he gets an extension on his jail time]]? This would seem to imply that not all of the killers are actually getting the death sentence, so it's possible that Kristoph ''didn't'' get the death sentence for killing "Shadi Smith." He probably ''would'' get put on death row for Drew's death, or in the very least get a jail time extension, so he was trying to avoid that.
*** It may simply depend on the circumstances and the person. Kristoph managed to avoid getting the death penalty on his reputation as being a highly respected defence attorney, and [[spoiler:Frank Sawhit may have avoided the death penalty by claiming that he didn't want to kill her, simply knock her out, getting convicted for man slaughter rather than murder]] so it may simply depend upon the circumstances of the murder and the person being convicted.

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** Plus, in ''Investigations 2'', doesn't [[spoiler:Frank Frank Sawhit show up as accomplice, and he gets an extension on his jail time]]? time? This would seem to imply that not all of the killers are actually getting the death sentence, so it's possible that Kristoph ''didn't'' get the death sentence for killing "Shadi Smith." He probably ''would'' get put on death row for Drew's death, or in the very least get a jail time extension, so he was trying to avoid that.
*** It may simply depend on the circumstances and the person. Kristoph managed to avoid getting the death penalty on his reputation as being a highly respected defence attorney, and [[spoiler:Frank Frank Sawhit may have avoided the death penalty by claiming that he didn't want to kill her, simply knock her out, getting convicted for man slaughter rather than murder]] murder so it may simply depend upon the circumstances of the murder and the person being convicted.



** A possible explanation comes from the revelation of what the black Psyche-Locks are. In ''Duel Destinies'', you find out [[spoiler: Black Psyche-Locks only appear when a person's lie is so heavily veiled by their psyche that they don't even realize they're lying; in other words, repressed memories or experiences. While it ultimately isn't relevant to the case, it reveals that there's some deep-seeded psychological issues and past experiences that have driven Kristoph to become so bitter and spiteful.]]

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** A possible explanation comes from the revelation of what the black Psyche-Locks are. In ''Duel Destinies'', you find out [[spoiler: Black Psyche-Locks only appear when a person's lie is so heavily veiled by their psyche that they don't even realize they're lying; in other words, repressed memories or experiences. While it ultimately isn't relevant to the case, it reveals that there's some deep-seeded psychological issues and past experiences that have driven Kristoph to become so bitter and spiteful.]]



** ''Duel Destinies'' reveals that [[spoiler: black Psyche-Locks hide secrets so dark and personal for the liar that they don't even realize they're lying; in other words, some form of repressed-memory PTSD, like Athena with her mother's murder.]] So while that answers what the black locks mean, it also leaves more questions as to what exactly is so horrid that Kristoph's own mind is hiding memories from him.

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** ''Duel Destinies'' reveals that [[spoiler: black Psyche-Locks hide secrets so dark and personal for the liar that they don't even realize they're lying; in other words, some form of repressed-memory PTSD, like Athena with her mother's murder.]] murder. So while that answers what the black locks mean, it also leaves more questions as to what exactly is so horrid that Kristoph's own mind is hiding memories from him.



*** [[spoiler:Phoenix ''does'' recover his badge in a year or so (in time for Dual Destinies), but he doesn't have it in the chronologically earliest case. Given all that went into getting the Jurist System through, he might have just felt like taking his time. Also, he implies that it still took a while for all of the paperwork to go through, even with Chief Prosecutor Miles Edgeworth helping it along.]]

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*** [[spoiler:Phoenix Phoenix ''does'' recover his badge in a year or so (in time for Dual Destinies), but he doesn't have it in the chronologically earliest case. Given all that went into getting the Jurist System through, he might have just felt like taking his time. Also, he implies that it still took a while for all of the paperwork to go through, even with Chief Prosecutor Miles Edgeworth helping it along.]]



** Looks like [[spoiler:he did get his badge back, as [=GS5=] previews show that Phoenix is the player character again.]]

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** Looks like [[spoiler:he he did get his badge back, as [=GS5=] previews show that Phoenix is the player character again.]]

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